Must you have trail hand pushing force in order to have an extended trail wrist at impact?

[Valtiel]

50 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Yeah...and you provided it in your eloquent response. Thank you so much.

 

46 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I haven't seen his swing, so I have no clue what it might be. Sometimes, knowing what not to spend time on is just as valuable.

You had actually last year and identified the reverse tilt (and Monte identified the rotation stuff) that were both the things @Jbarretta needed to focus on. 

@Jbarretta The entire concept of maintaining trail wrist extension at impact is dependent upon a cascading series of movements that start in the very beginning of the swing. In focusing on a singular concept all the way at impact you're getting too far ahead:



If your hands are here at P6 then maintaining trail wrist extension means you don't make impact with the ball, you're forced to dump those angles to make contact, so no amount of trying to achieve a specific position at impact matters yet because it's physically impossible. 

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

You had actually last year and identified the reverse tilt (and Monte identified the rotation stuff) that were both the things @Jbarretta needed to focus on.
…
If your hands are here at P6 then maintaining trail wrist extension means you don't make impact with the ball, you're forced to dump those angles to make contact, so no amount of trying to achieve a specific position at impact matters yet because it's physically impossible. 

 

Thanks. I don't always remember, but having taken a quick look now, I agree that focusing on trail hand anything is pointless right now… and what you said is good.

[Jbarretta]

38 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Thanks. I don't always remember, but having taken a quick look now, I agree that focusing on trail hand anything is pointless right now… and what you said is good.

Might as well try and a quick virtual lesson.  real swing during a round (tyler and corgono golf both had some good things to say about this swing but need to get more open  I believe ( and hope you all agree ) my pelvis motion and pivot  is much better.  just a late chicken wing but long after impact)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6 by Jbarretta

[MonteScheinblum]

On 1/2/2024 at 8:27 AM, Jbarretta said:

I am a lead hand dominant golfer and don't put much thought into the trail hand.   Yesterday I stumbled upon pre shot routine where i brushed the grass and applied a pushing force on the aft side of the handle with the trail hand.  I noticed it helped move the swing bottom forward.  I tried to keep that feel during my swing and I hit some very compressed golf shots especially with the 3 wood.

 

I've used the hack motion and my lead wrist is always slightly bowed at impact but I'm wondering if the pushing force with the trail hand helped keep the trail wrist extended through impact.  Did I stumble upon TGM pressure points?  

Let’s start with the fact that the trail wrist extension shouldn’t remain constant through impact.

[iacas]

I'm hesitant to make a comment on a wobbly (not bad, just not on a tripod) far-away video from only one angle, but…

• The reverse axis tilt is better.
• The right knee doesn't go back, which constricts the way the pelvis can move.

The latter throws off some other things, and I'd probably look at the way the pelvis moves (or is allowed to move). I think it was Dr. Scott Lynn who said he considers the pelvis to be the GPS of the golf swing, and your GPS is restricted a bit.

 

But, I could change my mind based on what I see from better (and more) angles, etc.

[Righty to Lefty]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

 

I haven't seen his swing, so I have no clue what it might be. Sometimes, knowing what not to spend time on is just as valuable.

He wasn't asking for swing advice in his post. He was asking about lead and trail hand dominance and lag pressure and it is worth knowing in my opinion

 

 

11 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

You had actually last year and identified the reverse tilt (and Monte identified the rotation stuff) that were both the things @Jbarretta needed to focus on. 

@Jbarretta The entire concept of maintaining trail wrist extension at impact is dependent upon a cascading series of movements that start in the very beginning of the swing. In focusing on a singular concept all the way at impact you're getting too far ahead:



If your hands are here at P6 then maintaining trail wrist extension means you don't make impact with the ball, you're forced to dump those angles to make contact, so no amount of trying to achieve a specific position at impact matters yet because it's physically impossible. 

Once again he wasn't asking for swing advice in his post as far as I saw and I will leave it up to him to work from impact to address like I advocate, or vice versa like you and many others suggest because I believe that feeling that pressure gives the body an understanding for what is coming so that it can prepare for what is coming. 

 

I expressly mention in the video that I shared that you are not trying to manufacture a specific position and that your orientation to the ball will make it so that you happen to be in a certain position and that a golf ball will happen to be struck along the way.  I feel this a better method to go about things but I will leave it to the golfer to take in both suggestions and pick which one that prefer.  

[Righty to Lefty]

10 hours ago, Jbarretta said:

Might as well try and a quick virtual lesson.  real swing during a round (tyler and corgono golf both had some good things to say about this swing but need to get more open  I believe ( and hope you all agree ) my pelvis motion and pivot  is much better.  just a late chicken wing but long after impact)

 

 

 

 

 

Being that you put up a swing video now I will say this. Your swing motion is fine for your current physical ability to go out and play golf as that is your own swing fingerprint.  If you become more capable as an athlete via physical fitness and range of motion, then your swing will evolve.  My suggestion is that in the meantime you work off of the quality of your impact and the ball flight and let that be your guide because the shot that you struck in that video was struck with lag tension and I can tell that because your trail arm happened to still bent at impact and that is mandatory and you accomplished that, so keep it up, work on your mobility and in time you will become more capable and be able to create more and more leverage. 

 

How your swing looks on video is not important in my opinion, because pretty golf swing does not ensure good golf, but quality impact does so that is where the main focus should be in my opinion. When your brain begins to really trust that where you are in relation to the ball is correct to hit it with maximum pressure the body will calm and your swing will look more and more "smooth" visually in time because the body does some crazy things to try and hit the ball if you are out of position. Am I making sense?  R to L 

[getitdaily]

18 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

He wasn't asking for swing advice in his post. He was asking about lead and trail hand dominance and lag pressure and it is worth knowing in my opinion

 

 

Once again he wasn't asking for swing advice in his post as far as I saw and I will leave it up to him to work from impact to address like I advocate, or vice versa like you and many others suggest because I believe that feeling that pressure gives the body an understanding for what is coming so that it can prepare for what is coming. 

 

I expressly mention in the video that I shared that you are not trying to manufacture a specific position and that your orientation to the ball will make it so that you happen to be in a certain position and that a golf ball will happen to be struck along the way.  I feel this a better method to go about things but I will leave it to the golfer to take in both suggestions and pick which one that prefer.  

Kind of like how dude in the wrist set thread wasn't asking about impact to address and orientation to the ball but you centered your response on that instead of wrist set in the backswing as that thread poster specifically asked?

[virtuoso]

Trying to remodel the upstairs part of your house when the downstairs foundation needs repair…….much frustration ahead.

[Righty to Lefty]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

Kind of like how dude in the wrist set thread wasn't asking about impact to address and orientation to the ball but you centered your response on that instead of wrist set in the backswing as that thread poster specifically asked?

Oh you mean when I stated that there was no need to monitor wrist angles and then presented my reasoning why it wasn't necessary.  The response was on topic. 

 

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Trying to remodel the upstairs part of your house when the downstairs foundation needs repair…….much frustration ahead.

Grip, stance, and posture are not foundational principles of golf because if they were there would only be one way to do it and as we all know there are many. Impact is the foundation of golf because no matter what we are all subject to the same rules when the club strikes the ball so it is the true foundation of golf. Grip, stance, and posture are actually the upstairs remodel "refinements." 

 

Maybe if the info comes from someone other than me it will be considered valid: 

 

Edited January 6 by Righty to Lefty

[JayMas]

Taking video of your swing not important 😂

 

This is getting wild.

[GoGoErky]

43 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Grip, stance, and posture are not foundational principles of golf because if they were there would only be one way to do it and as we all know there are many.

Yes but there are ways to grip that make thing easier and reduces variables in the swing 

Not to mention it’s something every good golfer works on and ensure is correct each swing. 
 

If you have a bad grip, you don’t want a good swing”.
 

Harvey Penick

Edited January 6 by GoGoErky

[CSagan]

13 hours ago, Jbarretta said:

Might as well try and a quick virtual lesson.  real swing during a round (tyler and corgono golf both had some good things to say about this swing but need to get more open  I believe ( and hope you all agree ) my pelvis motion and pivot  is much better.  just a late chicken wing but long after impact)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll just toss my opinion on the pile.

 

As @virtuoso said above, your lower body controls a lot of what happens up top. Just concentrating on your footwork and knee action here would level up your swing and alleviate some of the other things happening up top. Your knees are level at the top of the swing because you seem to be restricting their turn. This makes your hips level which makes it hard to get the tilts you need so the lead shoulder down move kinda happens on its on. If you could let that lead knee release on the backswing and move more away from the target that would help you get better tilts, then coming down working on releasing that right foot and kissing the knees together right after impact would let your pelvis continue to rotate.

 

 

 

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

 

Grip, stance, and posture are not foundational principles of golf because…

I think you confused me with someone that said grip, stance and posture.

[Jbarretta]

@Righty to Lefty @iacas @virtuoso

 

Walked 18 in 35 degrees. Ball striking was great.  So I understand why my lead knee can't rotate and it's because I have some lead foot flair   if I don't flair the lead foot the lead knee can come in more like those pics of all the greats   I can feel being more coiled but also feel almost being too  centered   i will experiment 

 

Righty to lefty your swing thought of if you had to pressure a scale with the clubface you would pressure the grip on the front and aft sides is excellent for me.  I played today with the trail hand index finger pressuring the handle and a shorter lead thumb   it 100% helps with clubface control 

 

Hit the ball with your trail shoulder Tom watson replace the shoulders, Martin chuck has a video don't run out of right arm, there are multiple threads about rotating around the c7 in the downswing , and this thread where manzella said the thought of trail hand probably helps my trail side get through the ball.  All of these thoughts  have helped my compression.  

 

 

[virtuoso]

17 minutes ago, Jbarretta said:

@Righty to Lefty @iacas @virtuoso

 

Walked 18 in 35 degrees. Ball striking was great.  So I understand why my lead knee can't rotate and it's because I have some lead foot flair   if I don't flair the lead foot the lead knee can come in more like those pics of all the greats   I can feel being more coiled but also feel almost being too  centered   i will experiment 

 

Righty to lefty your swing thought of if you had to pressure a scale with the clubface you would pressure the grip on the front and aft sides is excellent for me.  I played today with the trail hand index finger pressuring the handle and a shorter lead thumb   it 100% helps with clubface control 

 

Hit the ball with your trail shoulder Tom watson replace the shoulders, Martin chuck has a video don't run out of right arm, there are multiple threads about rotating around the c7 in the downswing , and this thread where manzella said the thought of trail hand probably helps my trail side get through the ball.  All of these thoughts  have helped my compression.  

 

 

Bottom line, if what you are thinking/doing is helping you hit the ball better, that is what matters. Carry on, fine sir.

[iacas]

I'm going to ignore a lot of the really bad stuff you wrote (and it's basically every sentence), because you still haven't answered my question, and yet…

 

7 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Grip, stance, and posture are not foundational principles of golf because if they were there would only be one way to do it and as we all know there are many. Impact is the foundation of golf because

 

Okay, so:

• grip, stance, and posture are not foundational … because there would be only one way to do it and there are many.
• impact IS foundational.

It must be because there's only one way to do it. But there isn't just one way to do it.

 

This is why I asked:

 

On 1/1/2024 at 6:39 PM, iacas said:

Gonna break my own rule again to ask a question: what specfically does that even mean? PGA Tour players have all sorts of varied looks at impact. Sure, they don't hit up 3° with their typical 7I, but there have been major winners who hit down 8° and those who hit down 1°. There have been high ball hitters, low ball hitters, etc. There have been major champions whose trail hand is flying off the grip at impact and those who look the opposite.

 

Physics (on the smallest levels) and anatomy (on slightly larger levels) are the same, of course… So what the heck does that even mean?

 

 

Goodness.

 

[Nels55]

8 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Trying to remodel the upstairs part of your house when the downstairs foundation needs repair…….much frustration ahead.

No problem.  Open concept!  Simply knock all the bearing walls out and then the foundation won't matter anymore!

[Valtiel]

9 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Grip, stance, and posture are not foundational principles of golf because if they were there would only be one way to do it and as we all know there are many. 

This is just a bonkers thing to say dude. Either you're coming up with your own definition of "fundamental" here or you're so deep down the rabbit hole of your own personal golf swing philosophy that you're entering "flat earth" territory.