Cleveland HI BORE driver

[hacker17]

When I first saw the SQ I thought it was ugly. But,the HiBore is by far the worst looking club I've ever seen.

[keyser]

How are they designing it to make it the only driver not designed for a top half hit(someone convince me this isn´t manufacturer BS)?

[rerodrig]

Most drivers are designed with a "relatively" low COG to promote high launch, low spin shots. Unfortunately, to gain any benefit from this "low" COG you have to hit the top half of the clubface. The sweetspot or most stable point on the clubface is most likely located in the center of the face. This is the point where the most energy is transferred to the ball because there is very little energy lost due to "gear effect". In other words energy is not wasted because the clubface does not rotate when the ball impacts this spot. When the clubface rotates you lose energy and that is fact. The problem is that due to the fact that the COG is not low compared to this spot on the face you do not get the optimal launch and spin on a center hit. I know I have hit drives that felt terrible but went farther than a center impact because the spin and launch characteristics were better in relation to eachother. Without the crown the COG is lowered enough that you can get the optimal launch conditions from a center hit and get full energy transfer to boot. Removing the crown does make a big difference even though the mass of that portion of the club may seem negligible. Why would companies have replaced the crown on some drivers with graphite if it made little to no difference? If everything else remains constant (SS, shaft, loft, and impact position) the launch off of a Launcher Comp 460 would be higher than the launch off of a Launcher 460 and that is due to the decrease in mass by using a graphite crown. Now with the HiBore they have made it that much better. I hope this helps.

[zengolfer]

Hey guys,

 

Love this site, first reply!!

 

I talked with my cleveland rep who owes me a favor.

 

Here;s the deal, in his words, the driver is sitting on a different "chassis". Basically the face is shallow and looks/feels like a 360cc/380cc head, but the length from back to front is much longer than a 460cc. So, they've basically made the club perform (from an MOI perspective) as if it were a 520cc club head, but hits a penetrating shot, and has the workability of a smaller club. Does that help???

 

I get to hit it next week. That, and the 905 R. Whichever is better, I am ordering.

[zengolfer]

by the way, standard shaft is going to be the V2. I think the 65grm one.

[italianstallion]

Sounds like the R&D team at Cleveland Golf has been hard at work, can't wait to give this a swing!!!!!! :D

 

Anybody know if Cleveland has a patent on this design to prevent other companies from taking it?

[wrayner]

Alright......just recieved an e-mail from my Cleveland Rep and he attached a ton of info on the Hi Bore, including pictures and all of the shaft upgrades and pricing. I couldnt post the pictures, however, the info in the e-mail was just as good.

 

"inverted crown design aligns the sweetspot with the hotspot which maximizes ball speed and launch conditions over a larger portion of the face"

 

"distance driven geometry pushes weight to the far perimeter of the club, maximizing the MOI adding to the playability and overall foregiveness"

 

"520cc chassis, 10% deeper face profile with 15% larger footprint"

 

"largest sweetspot with 20% larger effective hitting area"

 

"25 grams off discretionary weight placed low and deep in the clubhead, high MOI, extremely forgiving on off center hit with less loss of distance"

 

Hope some of this helps people. Not sure what the stock shaft is going to be because in the pricing structure i got the V2 was a $20 upcharge.

[HeadonaStick]

Alright......just recieved an e-mail from my Cleveland Rep and he attached a ton of info on the Hi Bore, including pictures and all of the shaft upgrades and pricing. I couldnt post the pictures, however, the info in the e-mail was just as good.

 

"inverted crown design aligns the sweetspot with the hotspot which maximizes ball speed and launch conditions over a larger portion of the face"

 

"distance driven geometry pushes weight to the far perimeter of the club, maximizing the MOI adding to the playability and overall foregiveness"

 

"520cc chassis, 10% deeper face profile with 15% larger footprint"

 

"largest sweetspot with 20% larger effective hitting area"

 

"25 grams off discretionary weight placed low and deep in the clubhead, high MOI, extremely forgiving on off center hit with less loss of distance"

 

Hope some of this helps people. Not sure what the stock shaft is going to be because in the pricing structure i got the V2 was a $20 upcharge.

I hear that the stock shaft is by Fujikura with a similar profile to an NVS.

[schmidlack]

I agree. I have played so many TM TP drivers and none of them spin enough. My SS is right at 100 and I need 3,100 RPM's to maximize the hangtime. Everyone talks about low spin all the time. All the manufacturers make low spin drivers, but it's not low spin that's important anymore, it's the RIGHT spin that matters. I think we need to change our thinking on this.

[keyser]

"520cc chassis, 10% deeper face profile with 15% larger footprint"

Compared to what?

 

rerodrig,

as I understand it the way to get lower spin and a higher flight is making impact at a point higher than the CG. The lower the CG the more the vertical gear effect. Another way to to this well is have a high face, and therefore the CG will be very low relative to the highest impact point of the face. So the vertical gear effect/twising is a desired effect and the only way to get the high flight and low spin??.. but the problem with most drivers is that the ideal flight for most high swinspeeds is not the same place as the highest COR(the center). A much lower CG could make the head twist at center hits, giving it ideal launch(for most) and highest COR at the same time. Would you say this is correct?

 

But if the driver doesn´t have a high face, nor nearly the depth of a sasquatch(and callaway can play with 40 grams with the FT-3 I think), then I don´t get what is revolutionary about this. I understand they get a lower CG because of the no crown, but the CG will be brought a bit forward because of the double front face plate(less deep results in the same thing as not as low.. that is less vertical gear effect). If they´re face was as high and large as a Cobra, and the depth as deep as a Sasquatch and no crown... then I could undersand it being pretty dramatic. Care to please explain this to me better?

 

Anyone know if Kevin Stadler was using to his victory this week? How do Toms and Vijay´s stats look compared to this time last year?

[rerodrig]

Clubhead rotation (vertical gear effect) is far from an ideal scenario to transfer the most energy to the golf ball. Taylormade and other companies have led people to believe that gear effect is a good thing. It is a good thing if that is the only way to produce optimal launch conditions on a golf shot but terrible for energy transfer. The reason companies are trying to produce a driver with the lowest and deepest CG they can is to reduce this twisting so that these high face hits transfer more energy to the ball. That is why anymore all companies are touting there driver as the "most forgiving". Without this forgiveness these high face impacts would be worthless.

 

Cleveland is just doing the same as every other company but have achieved supposed dramatic results with the radical design of the HiBore. They have claimed to have manipulated the CG to the point that you can hit the sweet spot and achieve optimal launch conditions plus transfer the most energy to the ball because little of it is lost due to the gear effect. It is also well know that the sweetspot is the point on the face where COR is highest, as you stated, so you would want to hit the sweetspot.

 

All I can say is try it because you may be surprised. I know that I am going to try it as soon as I see our rep.

[keyser]

All I can say is try it because you may be surprised. I know that I am going to try it as soon as I see our rep.

I definetly will, I´m really excited about this driver.. I just want to understand the technology better.

 

I don´t see how a driver can give higher launch and lower spin without the vertical gear effect, I thought the only difference would be that the hi bore would achive it with higher cor on the center of the face. And I also no not see how lower CG can reduce the vertical gear effect, I thought it would increase it. The lower and deeper the CG... the more pre loaded twist effect is on the head. And the deeper the CG... the more forgiving the head(higher MOI).

[keyser]

Double face plate is misleading, I don´t how do word it. I mean they have the face.. and then the area behind it that goes down to the sole., that is be severly sloping short crown, if that explaines it better:)

[rerodrig]

keyser,

 

The higher launch lower spin is more a direct result of CG in relation to impact position. Like you said you want to make contact above the CG. The side effect is the gear effect but because the new drivers have been designed with high MOI this twisting at impact has been minimalized. Also, the twisting of the head is related more to the shaft than solely to the head. The moment arm created by impacting the upper part of the face is just great enough that the material properties of the shaft will allow slight twisting of the head. Conversely, if Cleveland engineers have moved the CG far enough back in the clubhead this will decrease this moment arm enough that the shaft will be materially strong enough to prevent any twisting. This may only mean a small difference in energy transfer (in engineering terms) but will mean that your drives could possibly go an extra 15 yards which in golf is a mile.

[Eesh]

Being the Huge Cleveland Golf fan that I am, I like most people on this topic can't wait to get one of these Hibores in my hands.. but check out what I came accross on Thegolfchannel.com its also on Golfdigest.com as well.

 

Updated: Feb. 14, 2006, 4:09 PM ET

Source: Singh asked for test of Mickelson's driverAssociated Press

 

 

Vijay Singh didn't like the length of Phil Mickelson's spikes at the Masters. And after playing with him the first two rounds of the FBR Open, he had questions about Lefty's driver.

 

Not only did Mickelson beat him by two shots each day, but he also routinely hit his tee shots beyond Singh. On average, he was 6.1 yards longer than Singh in the first round and 15.4 yards longer than Singh on Friday.

 

When Mickelson showed up Saturday morning, the PGA Tour asked to test his Callaway FT3 driver to make sure it was under the limit for springlike effect. The driver passed the test.

 

I'm not sure if Vijay was using the Hibore or not at the FBR Open ... but I'm sure Cleveland can't be happy about this article coming out.

[keyser]

rerodrig,

doesn´t a deeper CG cause more veritcal gear effect? The more weight that´s hanging in the back, the more force is pulling the face to a more loft.

Aren´t manufacturers using tip flexible(but low torque) shafts, because they can increase the gear effect?

 

Eesh,

good find:) That indeed isn´t good publicity for Cleveland, maybe the extra inches he put on his driver just ain´t doing it for him. The FT-3 does brilliantly in all the robot tests I´ve seen, always the highest ball speed. I was going to buy it on how well it did, but I tried one out before I took the plunge and I just thought it felt AWFULL. I´ve never hit a driver that I thought felt that dreadfull... I could never get used to it, and I even think it looks awesome.

[sandy]

I had a chance to hit one today that had a V2 shaft in it. Can't say I am an fan of gaudy painted shafts (ROMBAX as well). I was very suprised looking at it at address. The indentation is not that distracting. Certainly no where as distracting as the SQ Max. The sound it makes is a muted clink, not loud like a Cobra or muted like a Titleist/TM. It seemed to hit the ball very high (8.5 loft) for me. The ball did seem to hang in the air for quite a while. The roll was fairly average producing above average distance. I found it very difficult to turn over but fairly easy to fade. The face angle looked almost square tending to a slight closed look but that could be how it sat on the ground as well. I was pleasantly suprised by a driver I had no intention of even trying. The other drivers I had with me at the time were X-460, XX Speed, SQ Max, SQ Tour, G5, MacTech, 905R, r7 460, Tour Edge Exotics. Not the longestest straightestest driver ever invented but darn good. :D

 

My ranking based on using all of the above drivers is as follows:

 

1. X-460

2. Tie XX Speed and Hi-Bore

3. 905R

4. G5

5. r7 460

6. SQ Tour

7. Tie MacTech and SQ Max

8. Tour Edge Exotic

 

I also got to hit a set of the CG-1 black pearls and am not sorry I didn't order a set. They have a better shape than the CG-1 chromes but suffer the same problem the TA-1 gunmetals did---a harsh feel at impact in spite of them being made from the supposed soft CMM material. Wait till you see the premium price they want for these.

[dorfblee]

Hi-Bore = Cleveland "Hammer"? just kidding, although the Hammer had it's aerodynamic scooped head design to increase clubhead speed. . .

[sandy]

The one hammer also had holes in the face and back of the scooped club. It whistled on the back swing and downswing. The noise made me realize why Jack Hamm would scream so loud when he hit the ball. It was agony from the noise.

[keyser]

Could you describe the feel of the hi-bore better... similar to anything else?

 

How large would you say the face is(the Cobras have the largest at the moment) and the footprint?

[sandy]

Could you describe the feel of the hi-bore better... similar to anything else?

 

How large would you say the face is(the Cobras have the largest at the moment) and the footprint?

 

I didn't measure it but the face wasn't as large as the Cobra Speed clubs. The front to rear distance is quite long but they have disquised it well and it doesn't appear long like the SQ Max does. I guess the closest thing I could describe the feel to would be the the Cleveland Comp. but not exactly. But it doesn't feel like other comp clubs while it doesn't feel like a regular ti club either. It is hard to describe its feel/sound--not clangy ti, not muted ti, not foamed steel, not unfoamed steel, not a true comp, not ceramic, not persimmon, Closer to a hybrid feel than a driver feel I guess would be the best description.

[Steelman]

I was at my club's range yesterday when the Cleveland rep was talking to the Pro working out details about an upcoming Tour Van visit. The Rep had a HiBore in his car that wasn't really a Demo but "his" club Cleveland sent him to play with so he can help sell it.

 

Anyhow, the Pro asked if he could hit it. Rep said sure so out to the range. The thing isn't as ugly as many suspect but it is different no doubt. The idea is that the head is designed like a 520cc club with 60cc scooped out to meet USGA requirements.

 

The shaft in this one was the stock Fuji shaft in stiff and was a 10.5 degree. The club pro starting hitting it and all you heard from him was "wow" and "good god" meaning it was awesome. The rep let a couple of us guys hanging out take a few swings. While that isn't enough to give a conclusive report, I can say it was long, straight, and easy to hit. It will be a popular club despite the appearance because of the performance.

[cogi59]

Can't wait for this thing to come out, looks like the R5 might be knocked outta the bag ;)

[Eesh]

THIS JUST IN...... www.hibore.com

[tarik]

Just pre-ordered mine! :aggressive: :angry: :vava: :) :yahoo:

[jdizzle921]

I go to the Leadbetter Academy in Orlando and I saw/tried Bart Bryant's Hi-Bore with a new Stulz triangular shaft. It's an ok driver but it looks really ugly and the ball flight isn't very high. Just a comment

 

My Bag:

 

Titleist 905T 8.5 w/Aldila NV

Sonartec 3.5 w/Tour Platform

Rescue TP 13 w/Vista Pro

RAC TP Coin Forged Blades w/Rifle 6.5

Titleist Vokey Spin Milled

Solus Wedge

 

Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless NEWPORT 2 3X Black

[Eesh]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the hibore, including all the pics you can take in are now on the www.hibore.com website. It was updated March 15th and I must say, is very well done.

[tarik]

The new updated site also shows more than a dozen shaft options.

[DiscountDansGolf.com]

Just smacked the hi-bore with V265, Prolaunch, Stock shaft, and NV65, and liked the sound, flight was penetrating and long.

 

I preferred the V2 shaft and the 10.5 loft. I am typically a low ball hitter so the 10.5 is automatic for me.

 

Feels great when he ball comes off of it, more solid than the other TI models except for the Titleist, which also has a solid feel.

 

It is not a scooped as I thought it would be, so it ends up being visually acceptabe. Top looks like the shadow of an FT3.

 

Dog Will Hunt.

[mjf34g]

Got the call and mines in the shop. I'll have it in my hands on Friday.: :lol: Can't wait to see what the fuss is about.