Slow Play

[Serenity Now]

What Are The Protocols To Deal With It

Our Club Championship pairings came out today and as luck would have it, our 2 slowest golfers in the entire club are paired together in the Championship Flight and guess who is in the group behind them? It is actually kind of funny because both think the other is incredibly slow and in reality, they both are. Add to that, they hate eachother with a passion so there is part of me that wishes I was in the group just to watch the interaction between the two.

Comedy aside, it is a potential problem and no one knows how to handle it fairly (they will have another pair of golfers in their group). Any ideas? I suggested that the club give a marshal authority to warn them (or anyone else) if they get behind and then after a certain amount of time, institute a penalty.

Any thoughts and ideas on the matter would be appreciated.

[bjackson]

I don't know if it is online, but the AJGA system is incredible. I have only played in one AJGA tournament, but I was INCREDIBLY impressed. I kind of laughed when I was told pace of play was 4:18, but each of my 3 rounds were played between 4:10-4:15. It works like a charm.

[Swingtheclub]

Our Club Championship pairings came out today and as luck would have it, our 2 slowest golfers in the entire club are paired together in the Championship Flight and guess who is in the group behind them? It is actually kind of funny because both think the other is incredibly slow and in reality, they both are. Add to that, they hate eachother with a passion so there is part of me that wishes I was in the group just to watch the interaction between the two.

 

Comedy aside, it is a potential problem and no one knows how to handle it fairly (they will have another pair of golfers in their group). Any ideas? I suggested that the club give a marshal authority to warn them (or anyone else) if they get behind and then after a certain amount of time, institute a penalty.

 

Any thoughts and ideas on the matter would be appreciated.

 

 

Are you a tournament official or the club pro?

 

If not simply put its not your concern.

 

If there is not a slowplay rule in place at your club for tournaments then I hardly see where its fair to institute one because of two players

 

Again its depends on who is responsible for this tournament the club the golf association both. But they need to make the rules at like and annual meeting , not at the last moment.

[Serenity Now]

Are you a tournament official or the club pro?

 

If not simply put its not your concern.

 

If there is not a slowplay rule in place at your club for tournaments then I hardly see where its fair to institute one because of two players

 

Again its depends on who is responsible for this tournament the club the golf association both. But they need to make the rules at like and annual meeting , not at the last moment.

 

 

 

 

 

If I am behind a group that plays a 5 hour round it is my concern and it has become my problem. I am not an official or the club pro. Just some poor sap who thinks 4 hrs is plenty of time to play 18 holes.

[oregongolf]

Our Club Championship pairings came out today and as luck would have it, our 2 slowest golfers in the entire club are paired together in the Championship Flight and guess who is in the group behind them? It is actually kind of funny because both think the other is incredibly slow and in reality, they both are. Add to that, they hate eachother with a passion so there is part of me that wishes I was in the group just to watch the interaction between the two.

 

Comedy aside, it is a potential problem and no one knows how to handle it fairly (they will have another pair of golfers in their group). Any ideas? I suggested that the club give a marshal authority to warn them (or anyone else) if they get behind and then after a certain amount of time, institute a penalty.

 

Any thoughts and ideas on the matter would be appreciated.

 

 

Are you a tournament official or the club pro?

 

If not simply put its not your concern.

 

If there is not a slowplay rule in place at your club for tournaments then I hardly see where its fair to institute one because of two players

 

Again its depends on who is responsible for this tournament the club the golf association both. But they need to make the rules at like and annual meeting , not at the last moment.

 

Gee, come on Ken... we've all been there and know how it feels.

[Swingtheclub]

exactly its part of the decision you make when you sign up for a tournament. Play is going to be slower.

 

You need to decide before you go out there that its going to be slow or it will affect your game.

 

 

I do not let it bother me period.

[JeffreySpicoli]

If I am behind a group that plays a 5 hour round it is my concern and it has become my problem. I am not an official or the club pro. Just some poor sap who thinks 4 hrs is plenty of time to play 18 holes.

 

If you're in a thread here on slow play, you must expect Ken to post & defend slow play. Best to just let it go as he's quite focused on this issue as of late and it appears that his opinion is quite fixed.

[KevCarter]

Serenity Now,

 

Ken is giving you good advise, not condoning slow play.

 

When I have to play in a pro am, I know it's going to be a 5 1/2 to 6 hour round. Nothing I can say or do is going to change that. If I go there expecting to play in 4, I am going to spend the day being pissed off and will play like junk.

 

Same thing in your case. Nothing you say or do is going to change the situation. If you want to try to win your club championship, go there with the proper attitude. Pace yourself for the length of round you know it will be. Don't rush and try to push the boneheads who are slow. If you do, you will have no chance and the weekend will be a total loss for you. Don't let the principle of the thing ruin your tournament.

 

Sometimes you just have to accept reality. It's not a perfect world.

 

Good luck,

Kevin

[rogue]

I have to agree with Kev and Ken in their assessment of the situation. I blame the PGA too many players copying all the messing around that they see on tv.

[xan_user]

Have someone video tape them with the timer on.

Show it on a loop in the proshop for a week with a sign listing tips on ways to keep up the pace of play.

 

 

Yesterday I went out after the last 3-some in a local club weekly senior tourney, knowing from previous experience they were more than a little slow. There was one guy in front of me and by the time I caught up to him on the 4th tee he was fuming. He proceeded to launch two drives in to them and storm off to the proshop for a refund.

 

Luckily they understood my explanation that it was NOT me that hit into them, and they let me play through. :black eye:

[Swingtheclub]

Have someone video tape them with the timer on.

Show it on a loop in the proshop for a week with a sign listing tips on ways to keep up the pace of play.

 

 

Yesterday I went out after the last 3-some in a local club weekly senior tourney, knowing from previous experience they were more than a little slow. There was one guy in front of me and by the time I caught up to him on the 4th tee he was fuming. He proceeded to launch two drives in to them and storm off to the proshop for a refund.

 

Luckily they understood my explanation that it was NOT me that hit into them, and they let me play through. :black eye:

 

Wow I would have loved to have been in the Pro Shop for that guy if I knew the details he would not only not get his money back but I would ask him not to come back. Nothing more despicable on a golf course than hitting into someone.

 

 

Kevin thanks for your support its a been there and done that for us.

 

I never meant to anger the original poster or make this a Pro slow play thread.

 

I was just trying to explain unless he was part of running the tournament there was nothing that he could do, I mean the tee times have been posted I am sure the rules sheet is written.

 

Just relax and smell the roses. Honestly I used to know guys that would slow play you in a tournament just to irritate you, I never let it bother me.

[mshills]

Our Club Championship pairings came out today and as luck would have it, our 2 slowest golfers in the entire club are paired together in the Championship Flight and guess who is in the group behind them? It is actually kind of funny because both think the other is incredibly slow and in reality, they both are. Add to that, they hate eachother with a passion so there is part of me that wishes I was in the group just to watch the interaction between the two.

 

Comedy aside, it is a potential problem and no one knows how to handle it fairly (they will have another pair of golfers in their group). Any ideas? I suggested that the club give a marshal authority to warn them (or anyone else) if they get behind and then after a certain amount of time, institute a penalty.

 

Any thoughts and ideas on the matter would be appreciated.

 

 

Are you a tournament official or the club pro?

 

If not simply put its not your concern.

 

If there is not a slowplay rule in place at your club for tournaments then I hardly see where its fair to institute one because of two players

 

Again its depends on who is responsible for this tournament the club the golf association both. But they need to make the rules at like and annual meeting , not at the last moment.

 

 

 

Nonsense. Slow play is everyone's issue. There is no reason that a round of golf should take more than 4:20, tournament or no tournament.

 

One of the most ridiculous things a golfer hears is when a marshall says "well, it's Saturday, so it's going to be a little slow." :black eye: Again, hogwash. The only reason why play would be slower on Saturday than, say Thursday, is if the marshalls aren't doing their jobs.

[Swingtheclub]

Our Club Championship pairings came out today and as luck would have it, our 2 slowest golfers in the entire club are paired together in the Championship Flight and guess who is in the group behind them? It is actually kind of funny because both think the other is incredibly slow and in reality, they both are. Add to that, they hate eachother with a passion so there is part of me that wishes I was in the group just to watch the interaction between the two.

 

Comedy aside, it is a potential problem and no one knows how to handle it fairly (they will have another pair of golfers in their group). Any ideas? I suggested that the club give a marshal authority to warn them (or anyone else) if they get behind and then after a certain amount of time, institute a penalty.

 

Any thoughts and ideas on the matter would be appreciated.

 

 

Are you a tournament official or the club pro?

 

If not simply put its not your concern.

 

If there is not a slowplay rule in place at your club for tournaments then I hardly see where its fair to institute one because of two players

 

Again its depends on who is responsible for this tournament the club the golf association both. But they need to make the rules at like and annual meeting , not at the last moment.

 

 

 

Nonsense. Slow play is everyone's issue. There is no reason that a round of golf should take more than 4:20, tournament or no tournament.

 

One of the most ridiculous things a golfer hears is when a marshall says "well, it's Saturday, so it's going to be a little slow." :black eye: Again, hogwash. The only reason why play would be slower on Saturday than, say Thursday, is if the marshalls aren't doing their jobs.

 

 

 

You miss the point this is not about slow play but about what he as and indiviual can do about it.

 

Only the officials running the tournament can do anything about it and then they have to have a rule in place.

 

I am betting they dont so nothing is what will happen.

[Serenity Now]

I appreciate the comments. I originally posted it because our Tournament Director noted right after the blind draw was done that it the 2 slowest guys who both hate eachother are playing together in the first group of the CS. "Any suggestions?" he said. I figured some on here would have some ideas or at least some experience in how to deal with it on a Club level.

 

Our problem is our course is a Resort so they are shy to hammer slow play due to not wanting to anger guests that are spending a lot to come and stay there.

 

I have already taken the attitude that I will take my watch off, walk rather than use a cart and enjoy the competition. Knowing it will be slow going into it should make it more tolerable. If nothing else it will be fun watching (and later hearing both sides stories) those 2 clown pick at each other for 5 hours.

[mshills]

 

You miss the point this is not about slow play but about what he as and indiviual can do about it.

 

Only the officials running the tournament can do anything about it and then they have to have a rule in place.

 

I am betting they dont so nothing is what will happen.

 

 

Did the OP not ask "any ideas?" No point was missed, at least not by me.

[Swingtheclub]

Then why are we arguing about slow play?

 

I told him there was nothing I thought he could do . Now he has since mentioned he was talking to the tournament director.

 

Maybe he can make suggestion s to him Honestly it sounded too late to me.

 

 

So here

 

I personally think the only way to have a fair slow play rule is with and extensive set of rules and a rules official in every group with a stop watch. Too me its ludicrous.

 

 

Just the same If he has the ear of the Tournament Director I would love to hear everyones ideas of what the slow play rule should be and how to administer it fairly.

 

 

Personally I do not like playing overly slow , but I have long acceppted its part of the beast. It even gets worse in a golf tournament.

 

Luckily for me at my club most of our rounds are less than four hours tournaments run about four thirty. Which is about the average for tournaments I have played over the years four hours thirty to five hours. I do know this if you can not handle the pace you will not do well in the tournament.

[777twist]

Ok, I'm going to fix all our slow play issues...

 

 

It's going to take a bit of technology:

 

You engineer the ball so it's on a timer, after it's hit...the clock is on. If the ball isn't hit again within a certain amount of time, the ball will either roll backward ...using the trajectory of the ball's flight as it's basis... or if it was in the rough or in sand, it would bury itself deeper.

 

Thus as a player, it only would make sense for you to hit your ball before your lie gets worse.

 

 

hehehe,

 

come on how awesome would that be??? !!!!

[golfman1229]

Have someone video tape them with the timer on.

Show it on a loop in the proshop for a week with a sign listing tips on ways to keep up the pace of play.

 

 

Yesterday I went out after the last 3-some in a local club weekly senior tourney, knowing from previous experience they were more than a little slow. There was one guy in front of me and by the time I caught up to him on the 4th tee he was fuming. He proceeded to launch two drives in to them and storm off to the proshop for a refund.

 

Luckily they understood my explanation that it was NOT me that hit into them, and they let me play through. :black eye:

 

Wow I would have loved to have been in the Pro Shop for that guy if I knew the details he would not only not get his money back but I would ask him not to come back. Nothing more despicable on a golf course than hitting into someone.

 

 

Kevin thanks for your support its a been there and done that for us.

 

I never meant to anger the original poster or make this a Pro slow play thread.

 

I was just trying to explain unless he was part of running the tournament there was nothing that he could do, I mean the tee times have been posted I am sure the rules sheet is written.

 

Just relax and smell the roses. Honestly I used to know guys that would slow play you in a tournament just to irritate you, I never let it bother me.

 

if you worked in the pro shop you'd be out of a job. i would never codone hitting into someone, but the customer is always right ( as some people like to say). there is no reason for slow play. if their is slow play then the marshals are not doing their job. i would have givin the guy a refund and apoligized, there is no sense in losing buisness and having some guy bad mouth you and the entire course.

[KevCarter]

if you worked in the pro shop you'd be out of a job. i would never codone hitting into someone, but the customer is always right ( as some people like to say). there is no reason for slow play. if their is slow play then the marshals are not doing their job. i would have givin the guy a refund and apoligized, there is no sense in losing buisness and having some guy bad mouth you and the entire course.

 

Well, the slow players are customers as well. If the customer is always right, what do you do with them?

 

Kevin

[larrybud]

The Golf Association of Michigan handles slow play perfectly:

 

Finish your round in 4:20, OR finish (i.e put the flag back in the hole) on the 9th and 18th hole no more than 15 minutes behind the group ahead of you (they have a clock and time each group coming through).

 

If the group fails either of them, they get a 1 shot penalty with a possibility of 2 shots for the round. Since they instituted this rule approx 3 years ago, I have yet to finish a round in more than 4:25 or 4:30. It's WONDERFUL.

[larrybud]

exactly its part of the decision you make when you sign up for a tournament. Play is going to be slower.

 

You need to decide before you go out there that its going to be slow or it will affect your game.

 

I do not let it bother me period.

So screw it, that's the way it is, why bother changing it? No wonder slow play is so prevalent with an attitude like this.

[Swingtheclub]

exactly its part of the decision you make when you sign up for a tournament. Play is going to be slower.

 

You need to decide before you go out there that its going to be slow or it will affect your game.

 

I do not let it bother me period.

So screw it, that's the way it is, why bother changing it? No wonder slow play is so prevalent with an attitude like this.

 

 

 

Considering I have stated several times that slow play does not bother me why would I want to change it.

 

My point was for those that hate it , if you want to play in tournaments that are not run by the golf association of Michigan you had better learn to deal with it.

[jjj912]

I think pace of play is primarily about being aware of your pace of play and about logistics. It's about being able to quickly evaluate the lie, determine the desired shot, choose the correct club, and hit the ball. It's about being aware if you are falling behind the group in front of you and about being aware that the group behind you is catching up with you.

 

In my experience, skill level and selections of tees has only a slight impact on the pace of play. If you have a golfer who needs two minutes to evaluate the lie, figure out what kind of shot he needs to play, what the best club for that shot is, take a practice swing or two or three, address the ball, and then finally hit the ball, it really doesn't matter where he is playing from or how good he is; it's going to take him all day to play 18 holes.

 

Of course, if the course is mandating carts on cart path only, then all bets are off. The 90* rule isn't as bad, but it still hurts. Especially, if all the cart paths on the left side of the fairway because the righthanded slicers, which I think is most golfers, spend most of their time driving across the fairway instead of down the fairway.

 

The fastest round I have ever played took 4 hours. It's usually between 4 hours 20 minutes and 4 hours 40 minutes. When I played that 4 hour round, it felt like we were flying around the course.

 

Ideally, what you would do to educate everyone on pace of play is to take groups out to play with the sole intention of finishing in, say, three and a half hours. If, during the round, you see that you are falling behind, you pick up and go to the next hole or skip a hole or two altogether. Play a couple rounds like that and the group will realize the speed that is needed in order to play 18 holes in less than four hours. This method should put a finger on the things that people are doing that consume a lot of time.

[Grogger31]

If the customer is always right, what do you do with them?

 

Here is the reason for slow play in the first place, summed up in one sentence.

 

The customer is NOT always right, in fact, they are frequently wrong. Courses need to make money, that is understood. What they don't understand is that if they can ensure good pace of play, they will get more frequent, more loyal customers! Find good rangers who can do their job and you won't lose money.

 

Greed clouds common sense.

[boondockgreens]

In my work league if someone is backing up play they just get on their cell phone and call the pro shop and they send out the ranger....it works....don't know the rules on this for tourney play.

[KevCarter]

If the customer is always right, what do you do with them?

 

Here is the reason for slow play in the first place, summed up in one sentence.

 

The customer is NOT always right, in fact, they are frequently wrong. Courses need to make money, that is understood. What they don't understand is that if they can ensure good pace of play, they will get more frequent, more loyal customers! Find good rangers who can do their job and you won't lose money.

 

Greed clouds common sense.

 

EXACTLY!

 

I think you took my post the wrong way, that is the point I wanted to get across. The customer is NOT always right. The ranger constantly hears, I paid my $50, I'll play at my own pace. That is the attitude we have to turn around!

 

In the post I was answering, I would have had the slow group skipping holes, as well as throwing the idiots who hit into them off the golf course. There is no need for either group, and they both ultimately cost the course business. Neither customer was right in this case. I also don't think it's about good rangers, it's about management that will stand behind them when they do their job.

 

Kevin

[Serenity Now]

Well, as it turns out it was an not issue today. Our TD spoke to both parties and encouraged them to play at a normal pace and they finished in about 4:10. My group only had to wait on one hole and that was a par 5 we were hitting in 2. Worked out great. I ended up with low round for the day so I am in first place by 2 shots in my flight going into next week and will be in first group off so now speed is not an issue. This thread really helped as I took off my watch, used my push cart and walked. Had a very good round. Started off birdying 3 of the first 5 holes.Good day.

 

I really like the Michigan rule and will suggest it to our club chairman.

[larrybud]

exactly its part of the decision you make when you sign up for a tournament. Play is going to be slower.

 

You need to decide before you go out there that its going to be slow or it will affect your game.

 

I do not let it bother me period.

So screw it, that's the way it is, why bother changing it? No wonder slow play is so prevalent with an attitude like this.

 

Considering I have stated several times that slow play does not bother me why would I want to change it.

Because it's killing the game.

[cdesana]

I recently played the USGA Mid Am qualifier at Franklin Hills Country club and it was run by the GAM. We finished our round right at 4 hours and 30 minutes. We had one tough stretch where we got a little slow but for the most part stayed in position.

 

They had a ton of marshalls out there to keep you moving and helping you find balls on a couple of blind tee shots.

 

That certainly will always help pace of play as well.

[cdesana]

As for what I would do in a simialr situation is to remind the Club Pro running the tourney that these guys can be a bit slow and have the potential to slow the whole field.

 

And if he would mind you taking your cell on the course in case it happened you could call the pro shop. But keeping that in mind tourney rounds are often slower than normal weekend rounds no matter how much you know the course.

 

Keep the right attitude and play well!!