Thorpe Pleads Guilty To Tax Evasion

[golfdigest]

Champions Tour player Jim Thorpe admits to failing to pay more than $2 million in income taxes from 2002 to 2004.

 

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[mikec222]

I read in another article that most of it was gambling winnings, he must be killing it on some kind of tables. It was like 1.5 million in gambling winnings or something like that

[MadGolfer76]

Much wants more.

[IndyIN]

I actually was in the jury for a federal tax evasion trail. My experience says that if it goes to trial, they've got you!

For the trial I was at, they use something called the indirect method to determine unreported income... I think that's what it was called. Anyway, instead of looking for income they totally look at expenses and payouts. Canceled checks and bank statements and asset lists tell the story. When they show you've paid out $XXX and you only show income of $X, the next question is where did it come from.

[InTheHole]

The bottom line in taxes is [i]file and pay something.[/i]

Thorpe got caught because he didn't even file a return for two years. You mine as well call up the IRS and let them know who your lawyer is when you do that!

If you file and pay something, the worst they can get you on (if I'm not mistaken) are mistakes in the filing which can be corrected. You may have to pay penalties and interest, but he's actually facing jail. It's perfectly legal to [i]avoid[/i] taxes. [i]Evading[/i] is a different story altogether.

Heck, most of these big drug dealers, mob bosses and the like get caught on tax evasion charges, not the actual crimes they commit. The money trail is pretty easy to follow.

[laseranimal]

the IRS sucks

that is all

[bobcat]

Not filing a tax return when you make as much $$$ as Thorpe makes seems so ignorant. Did he really expect he could get away with that?

I always kind of liked Thorpe but failing to file a return is beyond stupid. If he winds up doing time for it, I would have to say he deserves it. Wasn't he paying attention when Wesley Snipes was taken down for the same stupidity?

[InTheHole]

I believe he said he had two accountants, and each thought the other was filing... so there may be a little more to it than simply not filing and hoping to get away with it.

You have to remember, people with millions of dollars rarely handle their own money or account for it- if it were a multi-million dollar business, even if they were the boss, they would have a small team of accountants taking care of things. All the boss would say is, "are the taxes filed?" and someone would answer "yes."

Having said that, just like having a caddy- if the caddy makes a mistake (15 clubs in the bag, for example), it still is the player's responsibility/fault, and it looks like Thorpe will have to answer to the authorities for the mistake.

[CPSOX]

[quote name='InTheHole' post='1968734' date='Sep 23 2009, 09:17 PM']I believe he said he had two accountants, and each thought the other was filing... so there may be a little more to it than simply not filing and hoping to get away with it.

You have to remember, people with millions of dollars rarely handle their own money or account for it- if it were a multi-million dollar business, even if they were the boss, they would have a small team of accountants taking care of things. All the boss would say is, "are the taxes filed?" and someone would answer "yes."

Having said that, just like having a caddy- if the caddy makes a mistake (15 clubs in the bag, for example), it still is the player's responsibility/fault, and it looks like Thorpe will have to answer to the authorities for the mistake.[/quote]

You take the time to make sure things are done to keep you out of jail. Simple as that

[Pondy]

Well, if it was from his gambling winnings, as suggested earlier, I wonder if Old Jim 'forgot' to tell his accountant how much he won...

I remember a quote he gave some years ago about always 'taking home' some winnings from the Tour that he gave to the Mrs., and then keeping some fun money for gambling.

I have a suspicion that what he gave to the Mrs. got reported and taxed, but the fun money, maybe not.

[IndyIN]

[quote name='InTheHole' post='1968734' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:17 PM']I believe he said he had two accountants, and each thought the other was filing... so there may be a little more to it than simply not filing and hoping to get away with it.

You have to remember, people with millions of dollars rarely handle their own money or account for it- if it were a multi-million dollar business, even if they were the boss, they would have a small team of accountants taking care of things. All the boss would say is, "are the taxes filed?" and someone would answer "yes."

Having said that, just like having a caddy- if the caddy makes a mistake (15 clubs in the bag, for example), it still is the player's responsibility/fault, and it looks like Thorpe will have to answer to the authorities for the mistake.[/quote]


I'm not disagreeing that's what you heard, just don't believe his story. You don't go to court because of just a filing mix up. You have multiple opportunities to file and pay the back taxes (with penalties). So Mr. Thorpe needs to come up with a better lie.

[TimeToFly]

ouch! that sucks. dont F with the IRS, they play hardball. i know from personal experience, lol

[ibradley]

The old "I had two accountants is a well used excuse". Give me a break. Actually hard to believe Thorpe was so stupid

[MCCA]

Is his golf career over?

[Swisstrader98]

What does evading taxes have to do with "is his golf career over"?! You think everytime someone gets in hot water with the IRS that their career is over???

[oregongolf]

[quote name='pjh' post='1972993' date='Sep 26 2009, 08:32 AM']What does evading taxes have to do with "is his golf career over"?! You think everytime someone gets in hot water with the IRS that their career is over???[/quote]
Sounds like an honest question to me...

[MCCA]

[quote name='pjh' post='1972993' date='Sep 26 2009, 11:32 AM']What does evading taxes have to do with "is his golf career over"?! You think everytime someone gets in hot water with the IRS that their career is over???[/quote]


Well he is 60 years old and if he does get convicted (i'm not saying he is going to be) he's looking at prison. How is he going to play from jail? you F*&% with IRS you think they are going to say OK no problem pay us when you get it.

[Hidalgo]

[quote name='IndyIN' post='1970442' date='Sep 24 2009, 08:50 PM'][quote name='InTheHole' post='1968734' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:17 PM']I believe he said he had two accountants, and each thought the other was filing... so there may be a little more to it than simply not filing and hoping to get away with it.

[b]You have to remember, people with millions of dollars rarely handle their own money or account for it[/b]- if it were a multi-million dollar business, even if they were the boss, they would have a small team of accountants taking care of things. [b]All the boss would say is, "are the taxes filed?" and someone would answer "yes."[/b][/quote]


I'm not disagreeing that's what you heard, just don't believe his story. You don't go to court because of just a filing mix up. You have multiple opportunities to file and pay the back taxes (with penalties). So Mr. Thorpe needs to come up with a better lie.
[/quote]

Yep ... he's [b]LYING [/b]like a dog. As for the first part ... even if you [b]DON'T[/b] handle your own books, remember that [b]YOU [/b]must sign the return. So he [b]KNEW [/b]it wasn't filed.

And in the end it's [u]you and you alone that are responsible[/u] for the filing of the returns and for the accuracy of the information. The IRS could care less how many accountants or other "employees" that you have involved in the process.

I've never cared for Thorpe, and my intuition is usually right. I wouldn't trust him in an outhouse with a muzzle on. Just my opinion ...

[Swingtheclub]

If Thorpe goes to jail which is where he belongs I imagine at his age his career is over.

[InTheHole]

[quote name='Hidalgo' post='1973044' date='Sep 26 2009, 12:10 PM'][quote name='IndyIN' post='1970442' date='Sep 24 2009, 08:50 PM'][quote name='InTheHole' post='1968734' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:17 PM']I believe he said he had two accountants, and each thought the other was filing... so there may be a little more to it than simply not filing and hoping to get away with it.

[b]You have to remember, people with millions of dollars rarely handle their own money or account for it[/b]- if it were a multi-million dollar business, even if they were the boss, they would have a small team of accountants taking care of things. [b]All the boss would say is, "are the taxes filed?" and someone would answer "yes."[/b][/quote]


I'm not disagreeing that's what you heard, just don't believe his story. You don't go to court because of just a filing mix up. You have multiple opportunities to file and pay the back taxes (with penalties). So Mr. Thorpe needs to come up with a better lie.
[/quote]

Yep ... he's [b]LYING [/b]like a dog. As for the first part ... even if you [b]DON'T[/b] handle your own books, remember that [b]YOU [/b]must sign the return. So he [b]KNEW [/b]it wasn't filed.

And in the end it's [u]you and you alone that are responsible[/u] for the filing of the returns and for the accuracy of the information. The IRS could care less how many accountants or other "employees" that you have involved in the process.

I've never cared for Thorpe, and my intuition is usually right. I wouldn't trust him in an outhouse with a muzzle on. Just my opinion ...
[/quote]


I'm not saying I disagree with you guys- but that isn't always true. Alot of these guys form themselves into companies- often I believe the accountant signs things on behalf of the corporation.

I guarantee you that the CEO and CFO of the company I work for never see the tax returns. The Director of Tax at our company signs everything that is submitted. The amount of taxes paid appears on a report somewhere that the CEO/CFO see. I'm not saying that's the case here, I'm just saying that you can't apply blue-collar, middle-class thinking (I file my own 1040) to people with that kind of money and multiple accountants. It doesn' work the same way as for most people.

Hey- he pleaded guilty- good chance he'll avoid jail time. He admitted his mistake.

[IndyIN]

[quote name='InTheHole' post='1973255' date='Sep 26 2009, 02:45 PM'][quote name='Hidalgo' post='1973044' date='Sep 26 2009, 12:10 PM'][quote name='IndyIN' post='1970442' date='Sep 24 2009, 08:50 PM'][quote name='InTheHole' post='1968734' date='Sep 23 2009, 10:17 PM']I believe he said he had two accountants, and each thought the other was filing... so there may be a little more to it than simply not filing and hoping to get away with it.

[b]You have to remember, people with millions of dollars rarely handle their own money or account for it[/b]- if it were a multi-million dollar business, even if they were the boss, they would have a small team of accountants taking care of things. [b]All the boss would say is, "are the taxes filed?" and someone would answer "yes."[/b][/quote]


I'm not disagreeing that's what you heard, just don't believe his story. You don't go to court because of just a filing mix up. You have multiple opportunities to file and pay the back taxes (with penalties). So Mr. Thorpe needs to come up with a better lie.
[/quote]

Yep ... he's [b]LYING [/b]like a dog. As for the first part ... even if you [b]DON'T[/b] handle your own books, remember that [b]YOU [/b]must sign the return. So he [b]KNEW [/b]it wasn't filed.

And in the end it's [u]you and you alone that are responsible[/u] for the filing of the returns and for the accuracy of the information. The IRS could care less how many accountants or other "employees" that you have involved in the process.

I've never cared for Thorpe, and my intuition is usually right. I wouldn't trust him in an outhouse with a muzzle on. Just my opinion ...
[/quote]


I'm not saying I disagree with you guys- but that isn't always true. Alot of these guys form themselves into companies- often I believe the accountant signs things on behalf of the corporation.

I guarantee you that the CEO and CFO of the company I work for never see the tax returns. The Director of Tax at our company signs everything that is submitted. The amount of taxes paid appears on a report somewhere that the CEO/CFO see. I'm not saying that's the case here, I'm just saying that you can't apply blue-collar, middle-class thinking (I file my own 1040) to people with that kind of money and multiple accountants. It doesn' work the same way as for most people.

Hey- he pleaded guilty- good chance he'll avoid jail time. He admitted his mistake.
[/quote]

I get what you're saying, but I guarantee whether you're an individual or a company you get many notices before going to court. If this was an oversight, as he implies, you'd look in to it when you got your first notice. His story still doesn't work for me.

[mat562]

[quote name='IndyIN' post='1967851' date='Sep 23 2009, 07:29 PM']they show you've paid out $XXX and you only show income of $X, the next question is where did it come from?[/quote]

Crikey. Who would have thought of that?

No wonder these legal eagles are worth all the sky high fees.

[atlanta golfer]

I've worked a "nine to five" job since 1981 and paid taxes on everything I made - it was reported to the IRS via W2 forms. Taxes added up to around $10,000 to $30,000 every year, year after year after year. While I'm not happy with a lot of the ways we spend our US govt money, I have no sympathy for people who don't pay. Thorpe deserves heavy penalties and probably jail time regardless of the reason.

[MadGolfer76]

No doubt, what he did was serious and requires stiff consequences, the least of which should be suspension from golf. But...if it were someone like Tom Watson, or Arnold Palmer, or any other name White pro golfer, do you think they would have been sentenced to jail time? I think not.

[InTheHole]

You're going down a dangerous road for a golf forum...

[cubanstogie]

When sec of treasury Tim Geithner gets off scott free I have trouble with Thorpe doing prison time. Probation and fines enough. For the PGA to ban him would be too tough a crime IMO

[gdb99]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' date='11 February 2010 - 05:37 AM' timestamp='1265884659' post='2243315']
No doubt, what he did was serious and requires stiff consequences, the least of which should be suspension from golf. But...if it were someone like Tom Watson, or Arnold Palmer, or any other name White pro golfer, do you think they would have been sentenced to jail time? I think not.
[/quote]

You really are Mad....

He has been in trouble with the IRS for years.

And I figured it must have been big money, big enough that Foxwoods wouldn't bail him out of it. He's been pretty tight with Foxwoods, as his sponsor and everything he did for the Chief's kid and all that started his relationship with the casino.

[golf_junkie27]

[quote name='InTheHole' date='23 September 2009 - 09:17 PM' timestamp='1253758676' post='1968734']
I believe he said he had two accountants, and each thought the other was filing... so there may be a little more to it than simply not filing and hoping to get away with it.

You have to remember, people with millions of dollars rarely handle their own money or account for it- if it were a multi-million dollar business, even if they were the boss, they would have a small team of accountants taking care of things. All the boss would say is, "are the taxes filed?" and someone would answer "yes."

Having said that, just like having a caddy- if the caddy makes a mistake (15 clubs in the bag, for example), it still is the player's responsibility/fault, and it looks like Thorpe will have to answer to the authorities for the mistake.
[/quote]

You mean Thorpe has the same two accountants as Congressman Charles Rangel? At least Thorpe can plead ignorance while Rangel is actually involved in writing the tax laws.

I heard that Thorpe is now appealing and wants to be able to play. That's just too bad. Anyone admitting to a crime, whether it's white collar or some other type, should lose those priviliges. They do in other sports and Thorpe should not be an exception.

[MBA-J]

[quote name='golf_junkie27' date='12 February 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1266022595' post='2247551']


You mean Thorpe has the same two accountants as Congressman Charles Rangel? At least Thorpe can plead ignorance while Rangel is actually involved in writing the tax laws.

I heard that Thorpe is now appealing and wants to be able to play. That's just too bad. Anyone admitting to a crime, whether it's white collar or some other type, should lose those priviliges. They do in other sports and Thorpe should not be an exception.
[/quote]

I disagree. Thorpe plays as a private contractor and not as an employee of the Champion's Tour. Therefore, as long as he hasn't broken any Tour rules, and is otherwise eligible for the tournament, he should be allowed to play.

Plus, tax evasion hurts only Thorpe and his immediate family. However, last year, Dustin Johnson was arrested for a DUI. He could have killed himself as well as other people. The PGA Tour didn't take any disciplinary action against Johnson, if I recall. Therefore, I think it would be a significant double-standard if any additional disciplinary action would be taken against Thorpe.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='InTheHole' date='11 February 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1265940440' post='2245202']
You're going down a dangerous road for a golf forum...
[/quote]

"Dangerous" for whom? Does anyone really disagree with what I said? Are certain famous people beyond reproach?