Driving Range "Rules"

[rlheiman]

Does this "no teaching" apply to the course too? If I have an instructor I take out on the course, can he not help there either?

So if I hire a coach, he can't help me anywhere but his course? That doesn't sound right.

I'm thinking the only way that a range would have any ground to stand on would be if they had a big bold sign when you walk in that says no instruction.

[bigred90gt]

[quote name='dbren1' post='1982766' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:58 PM']Not at all, I just disagree with it. Waving a hand horzontally backwards and forwards in front of your neck would indicate a desire to 'kill an engine' when in a noisy environment for example. That, IMO, is not the same as a 'throat slashing' gesture (like the video posted) which is a much more threatening gesture.[/quote]

That's how I took what the OP was saying. I dont think the gesture described in the OP was quite the same at what you see Thiago Silva doing in the octagon after a KO.

Was it handled inappropriately by the assistant pro? Absolutely. Should it be reported to the higher powers of club management/ownership? absolutely. Was it threatening? Doubt it. If what the OP is saying he did is indeed what you see in the clip posted (Thiago Silva) than absolutely I would take it as a threat. i do doubt this is what was done though.

[boo radley]

[quote name='rlheiman' post='1982848' date='Oct 1 2009, 07:43 PM']Does this "no teaching" apply to the course too? If I have an instructor I take out on the course, can he not help there either?

So if I hire a coach, he can't help me anywhere but his course? That doesn't sound right.

I'm thinking the only way that a range would have any ground to stand on would be if they had a big bold sign when you walk in that says no instruction.[/quote]

I don't think most courses would be very pleased with your showing up with a paid instructor, no. That's not to say it can't be done, or isn't done, but...it's like showing up at a gym with your own personal trainer.

[profsmitty]

[quote name='pfgplm' post='1982798' date='Oct 1 2009, 06:14 PM']Why is there always some short grey haired guy in his late 40's/early 50's at every public driving range that is an a$$hole and/or stickler for the most mundane rules? Every time.[/quote]
Same reason that it's always a ________ _________ _______ (you fill in the blanks with the ethnic, age, and gender stereotype you prefer) that breaks the rules.

Prejudice is prejudice, attitude is attitude, ignorance is ignorance. When we try to deal with stupidity with stupidity, anger with anger, and mistrust with mistrust - you get very little except the status quo.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='rlheiman' post='1982848' date='Oct 1 2009, 06:43 PM']Does this "no teaching" apply to the course too? If I have an instructor I take out on the course, can he not help there either?

So if I hire a coach, he can't help me anywhere but his course? That doesn't sound right.

I'm thinking the only way that a range would have any ground to stand on would be if they had a big bold sign when you walk in that says no instruction.[/quote]

Hey my friend, good to see your voice!

It's just professional courtesy, your coach calls the professional where you are playing to let him know what he would like to do. Any true professional would welcome him and say "anytime."

Kevin

[Dizz]

[quote name='kevcarter ' post='1982917' date='Oct 1 2009, 08:10 PM'][quote name='rlheiman' post='1982848' date='Oct 1 2009, 06:43 PM']Does this "no teaching" apply to the course too? If I have an instructor I take out on the course, can he not help there either?

So if I hire a coach, he can't help me anywhere but his course? That doesn't sound right.

I'm thinking the only way that a range would have any ground to stand on would be if they had a big bold sign when you walk in that says no instruction.[/quote]

Hey my friend, good to see your voice!

It's just professional courtesy, your coach calls the professional where you are playing to let him know what he would like to do. Any true professional would welcome him and say "anytime."

Kevin
[/quote]

Exactly and IMO if you did this without permission then its just disrespectful.

[bluetrane]

[quote name='OpusX20' post='1982751' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:48 PM']Maybe if the assistant pro had watched a few more sitcoms growing up, he would have known how to properly execute this guesture in the correct manner. I'll let Wikipedia explain...


[b][i]Cut it out[/i][/b]
[i]Made famous by [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Coulier"][i]Dave Coulier[/i][/url][i] on the children's television show [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_Control_(TV_series)"][i]Out of Control[/i][/url][i] (and subsequently on the more popular TV series [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_House"][i]Full House[/i][/url][i]), this gesture implies that one would like someone to stop doing whatever it is that they are doing, typically because it is destructive or annoying. It is a combination of three gestures each meant to emphasize one word of the phrase, which Coulier frequently emphasizes by speaking each word as he performs the corresponding gesture. It is given by first creating a scissors using your middle and index fingers ("cut"), followed by a generic "point" at the target ("it"), and finally finished with a single thumbs up retracted back to point behind oneself ("out", derived from a gesture [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball"][i]baseball[/i][/url][i] umpires may use to indicate a player is out).


[/i]Maybe he will read this and then next time he'll know better.[/quote]

lol I thought the same exact thing when I read the OPs post.

[attachment=473269:joeygladstone.jpg]

Much more family friendly than thee old neckslasharoo

[neophytea]

In situations like this I would ask the pro to put the situation and happening in writing and sign it with witnesses. I have also asked service managers at dealerships to put their decisions in writing and sign them. It always creates a new atmosphere that is much friendlier and customer based.

[OpusX20]

[quote name='bluetrane' post='1983050' date='Oct 1 2009, 08:39 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1982751' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:48 PM']Maybe if the assistant pro had watched a few more sitcoms growing up, he would have known how to properly execute this guesture in the correct manner. I'll let Wikipedia explain...


[b][i]Cut it out[/i][/b]
[i]Made famous by [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Coulier"][i]Dave Coulier[/i][/url][i] on the children's television show [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_Control_(TV_series)"][i]Out of Control[/i][/url][i] (and subsequently on the more popular TV series [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_House"][i]Full House[/i][/url][i]), this gesture implies that one would like someone to stop doing whatever it is that they are doing, typically because it is destructive or annoying. It is a combination of three gestures each meant to emphasize one word of the phrase, which Coulier frequently emphasizes by speaking each word as he performs the corresponding gesture. It is given by first creating a scissors using your middle and index fingers ("cut"), followed by a generic "point" at the target ("it"), and finally finished with a single thumbs up retracted back to point behind oneself ("out", derived from a gesture [/i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball"][i]baseball[/i][/url][i] umpires may use to indicate a player is out).


[/i]Maybe he will read this and then next time he'll know better.[/quote]

lol I thought the same exact thing when I read the OPs post.

[attachment=473269:joeygladstone.jpg]

Much more family friendly than thee old neckslasharoo

[/quote]

I can't believe Dave Coulier has been mentioned multiple times in 2009 on a golf forum. Pretty funny. I hope Alanis Morissette is not reading GolfWRX. It might bring up some painful memories for her. And nobody needs her writing more angry songs about Mr. Coulier.

[jones137]

You got to be kidding......I would have laughed in his face.

Freedom of speech is a right in this country the last time I checked.......especially to my wife!

As long as no money changed hands and the "lesson" was with a family member or friend he has no ground to stand on. Quite frankly, he deserves to be fired for something so stupid unless something happened in his day that gives him a really good excuse for acting like an idiot. I have no tolerance for people like this....they just don't get it.

I get not having outside Pro's or anybody that's out there hustling for money....you've got to protect your business.

Please post the "California" guys response.

[Redhaze737]

Hey all. I just got back to the computer after a day of golf....at a different course than the one of which we speak. I appreciate all the input. I think the consensus of opinion is the situation was handled less than perfectly.

To clarify the slashing of the throat gesture, I did not take it as threatening, mainly because I don't take the person who did it as threatening. I've seen the guy in action around the pro shop from time to time and I think he just really enjoys being the boss even though he really has no idea how to be the boss, in the highest meaning of the word. He definitely has no clue what it takes to build good customer relationships.

I plan on calling the COO tomorrow to get his take on the situation. I'm sure the COO is going to be really happy the assistant pro gave me his name and number instead of a local supervisor. I think the assistant pro thought I would be afraid to call an actual COO of a large organization. Little does he know I'm used to talking to those people.

I'll follow up when I have more to add. Thanks again.

Aloha

[grabthepin]

Surely a guy 75 yards away is easy to ignore. What's he going to do? Call security?

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='dbren1' post='1982644' date='Oct 1 2009, 02:49 PM'][quote name='kevcarter ' post='1982548' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:54 PM']Do you folks understand what is meant by the "throat slashing" gesture. It simply means to stop what you are doing. You are all making it sound like something threatening...

The policy at the range is silly, move on and take your business elsewhere.

Kevin[/quote]

How can a 'throat slashing' gesture made by a stranger not be interpreted as threatening?

If I was walking my dog off the leash in a rough neighbourhood at night and saw a stranger making the same gesture should I assume they're simply indicating that my dog should be on a leash or that are they threatening me?

[/quote]

Context is everything, Not quite the same when it happens midafternoon at a suburban golf course by a dork dressed in saddle oxfords and a sleeveless argyle sweater. lol!

[KevCarter]

[quote name='tjy355' post='1983601' date='Oct 2 2009, 08:06 AM'][quote name='dbren1' post='1982644' date='Oct 1 2009, 02:49 PM'][quote name='kevcarter ' post='1982548' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:54 PM']Do you folks understand what is meant by the "throat slashing" gesture. It simply means to stop what you are doing. You are all making it sound like something threatening...

The policy at the range is silly, move on and take your business elsewhere.

Kevin[/quote]

How can a 'throat slashing' gesture made by a stranger not be interpreted as threatening?

If I was walking my dog off the leash in a rough neighbourhood at night and saw a stranger making the same gesture should I assume they're simply indicating that my dog should be on a leash or that are they threatening me?

[/quote]

Context is everything, Not quite the same when it happens midafternoon at a suburban golf course by a dork dressed in saddle oxfords and a sleeveless argyle sweater. lol!
[/quote]

[profsmitty]

According to this source, the hand moving across the throat in a slashing or cutting motion is a commonly used aviation signal meaning, "cut engines" - translation, "[b]stop[/b]". Have nothing necessarily to do with aggression.

[url="http://tpub.com/content/aviation/14014/css/14014_255.htm"]http://tpub.com/content/aviation/14014/css/14014_255.htm[/url]

[larrybud]

To the OP: Tell this jerkoff that if he'd like to teach your wife for the same amount of money she pays you, have at it. Otherwise BUTT OUT!!!

[Redhaze737]

[quote name='smith5606' post='1983705' date='Oct 2 2009, 04:12 AM']According to this source, the hand moving across the throat in a slashing or cutting motion is a commonly used aviation signal meaning, "cut engines" - translation, "[b]stop[/b]". Have nothing necessarily to do with aggression.

[url="http://tpub.com/content/aviation/14014/css/14014_255.htm"]http://tpub.com/content/aviation/14014/css/14014_255.htm[/url][/quote]

I recognize that translation.

[Redhaze737]

[quote name='larrybud' post='1983819' date='Oct 2 2009, 05:20 AM']To the OP: Tell this jerkoff that if he'd like to teach your wife for the same amount of money she pays you, have at it. Otherwise BUTT OUT!!![/quote]

I should have told him not to bother me because it's one of the few times my wife was listening.

[Redhaze737]

Follow up on Friday 10/02/09.Earlier in the day I had attempted to contact the COO. After 15 minutes of attempting to navigate the robotic switchboard which said the COO's number was not valid. I decided to just go down the list of numbers available and was able to talk Accounts Payable. The lady was very friendly and patched me through to the COO's office. He wasn't in, but I was able to leave a message for the COO through his assistant's voice mail.

This afternoon....evening CA time the COO's assistant called me. She was very nice and apologized for the switchboard's behavior. The COO is apparently in Northern California and the assistant was calling me back. She was very attentive and seemed interested. She said she had run several golf courses in the past and had also given golf lessons. She said she was concerned with the way the situation was handled. She said she would have to contact the golf course to understand the agreement with the school on the grounds. I explained that in my mind I don't have anything to do with the school. I also said that to tell me I couldn't help my wife with her swing was ridiculous. She agreed, but wanted to get more info. I think she's justified in wanting to do that. Someone is supposed to call back on Monday. To be continued........

[coldsoul]

Well I think you are on your way to a well deserved apology- you handled this situation absolutely perfectly (I would like to think I would have reacted the same way but hotter heads might have prevailed). I think there will be a new policy and the "pro" will be instructed to not take these steps in the future. Unfortunately, he will probably take his frustration out somewhere else (ie. the girl who gets paid minimum wage to work the cash register on weekends). I can't stand these mightier than thou type people (has nothing to do with being a golf pro you will find these people in all sorts of jobs)

Please keep us posted!

Edit: spelling.

[mikec222]

That pro was clearly one of those weiners you played with now and then in the junior tournaments, you can just tell they have zero life outside of golf and no social skills to speak of. They'll stroke you or a 12 year old for anything they can think of. There not usually all that good, but always think they are.

Then they become a "pro" and think they are big shots. Whoever has to work with them in the proshop that day just hates their lives till its over. They'll never become head pro or even teach many lessons because no one really likes them..


sorry you had to run into one..

[Redhaze737]

I deleted my 10/02 post and added it here with the final resolutionl

Follow up on Friday 10/02/09. Earlier in the day I had attempted to contact the COO. After 15 minutes of attempting to navigate the robotic switchboard which said the COO's number was not valid. I decided to just go down the list of numbers available and was able to talk Accounts Payable. The lady was very friendly and patched me through to the COO's office. He wasn't in, but I was able to leave a message for the COO through his assistant's voice mail.

This afternoon....evening CA time the COO's assistant called me. She was very nice and apologized for the switchboard's behavior. The COO is apparently in Northern California and the assistant was calling me back. She was very attentive and seemed interested. She said she had run several golf courses in the past and had also given golf lessons. She said she was concerned with the way the situation was handled. She said she would have to contact the golf course to understand the agreement with the school on the grounds. I explained that in my mind I don't have anything to do with the school. I also said that to tell me I couldn't help my wife with her swing was ridiculous. She agreed, but wanted to get more info. I think she's justified in wanting to do that. Someone is supposed to call back on Monday. To be continued........

The COO's assistant called me on Tuesday the 7th to let me know they were still attempting to determine the extent of the agreement between the on property school and the golf course.

Yesterday late in the day, I received a call from the General Manager of the golf course. He is a PGA professional with extensive experience, but has only been on this property for a few months. He asked me to go through my experience on the day in question, which I did. He apologized for what happened. Bottom line, he was very friendly and professional and said the incident was not handled correctly and should not have happened. He went on to say my wife and I are welcome to work on our swings on the driving range and practice area. He was very clear that he values our business and wants us to continue to use their facilities.

We did not talk about the employee in question nor the supposed agreement between the golf course and the school. I think the way they handle their employee is their business as long as his behavior is not repeated. In addition, the agreement never had anything to do with me and whether is exists or is pertinent has no bearing on my enjoyment of the facilities.

Thanks for all your input. Now let's go back to playing golf!

Aloha

[InTheHole]

Sounds like it was handled professionally and courteously... in the vein of "the customer is always right." Kudos to them and glad you received some satisfaction.

[Sawgrass]

Glad it worked out to your satisfaction. Now your only problem is going to be getting criticized by your wife for giving ineffective swing advice.

[Redhaze737]

[quote name='Sawgrass' post='1996723' date='Oct 9 2009, 09:08 AM']Glad it worked out to your satisfaction. Now your only problem is going to be getting criticized by your wife for giving ineffective swing advice. [/quote]

Well yeah, there is that, but I'm used to it and I think that's in our agreement.

[mike03a3]

Glad it all worked out, and that the General Manager turned out to be a reasonable person.

If it had been my wife and myself (which is highly unlikely, since there's basically no chance she'd take any advice from me in the first place), I would have stood quietly in the background with my hands in my pockets while she ripped the assistant a new one.

[profsmitty]

[quote name='mickw' post='1995679' date='Oct 8 2009, 09:27 PM'][quote name='smith5606' post='1995618' date='Oct 8 2009, 10:05 PM'][quote name='502 to Right' post='1995557' date='Oct 8 2009, 08:41 PM']Wow. The dude who was complaining about his Scratch putter not being on time and wanting to cancel must be smiling right now.[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing. Group think is a well known and studied phenomenon. It can be like a tidal wave, sweeping all logic, all experience, and healthy skepticism in its path. In this case, the OP was villified as besmirching the reputation of a company and an individual. Unfortunately, no one stopped to ask the question, "what if . . . ".
[/quote]


Nahhhh. I see where you are coming from to a certain extent, but he was villified for what he was threatening/tried to do when he decided that he no longer "wanted" the putter. And I quote "wanted" because that is how he actually stated it in one of his last posts. Most of the "group think" in that thread had to do with the manner in which he threatened to achieve his goal of getting his money back...by using a public forum to hopefully help him "lynch mob" a company into "doing the right thing". It backfired for him...miserably. Two seperate entities, if you ask me.
[/quote]


[quote name='mike03a3' post='2001992' date='Oct 12 2009, 03:14 PM']Glad it all worked out, and that the General Manager turned out to be a reasonable person.

If it had been my wife and myself (which is highly unlikely, since there's basically no chance she'd take any advice from me in the first place), I would have stood quietly in the background with my hands in my pockets while she ripped the assistant a new one.[/quote]
+1. I, too, married a pit bull. Once saw her reduce a college admissions officer to a babbling idiot. I have become adept at holding her coat.

[blkfaceanh]

You should still get the Assistant 'I'm larger than life cause I have a nearly dead end job so I need to feel important' guy fired. I would've been all over the Pro Shop til that guy got fired cause if I was at the range with some of my friends, any gesture like that is NOT friendly and seem more like a threat.

Regardless of his own made up sign language, that's beyond out of bounds. That's out of bounds, drove home in the car and slept on the lawn, out of bounds.

If the assistant gives you any more 'crap' in the future, you should be all over him and let the club know about it. They should be the happy enough that they have people who like to frequent their facility and should never treat anyone like they are beneath them.

[acquadiice]

thats funny because at the driving range i goto here has signs all over the range that specifically states "no instructions allow at all" but i see people helping on another out all the time. im sure they are talking about professionals teaching @ their range not a husband help a wife or something like that.

[Supra GTR]

One time i was at my range, and I got yelled at for making divots. I was playing the same divot the whole time also. It was about 2inches with, and about 2 feet longs, because i was there for a good 2 hours. I go to a different range now, with its own putting green and separate chipping green. It also has a dome for the winter.