Driving Range "Rules"

[Redhaze737]

What are you NOT allowed to do?

This is a bit of a rant as well as a quest for information. Sorry if the post is a bit long. Yesterday my wife and I were at the driving range of a very well known course here in Hawaii. I'll leave out the name of the course for now. This particular course sells yearly memberships and offers discounts for members on green fees, clothing, range cards, etc. We play this course several days a month during the dry season. Yesterday I went to the course purchased a range card and my wife and I went to the practice area to work on our short game, then to the driving range to hit some balls.

My wife and I play golf or work on our swings at the driving range 4 or 5 days a week, not always at this course, but at several courses around the island. My wife has only been playing about 4 years, but has a pretty good swing, I play to an 8. We talk about our golf swings and we work on our golf swings on the range. This is what we like to do.....play golf or work on our swings. From time to time when we're at the range I'll ask her to watch something I'm trying to do to see what I'm really doing and I help her with her golf swing when she asks. The problems started when she asked me to look at her swing to see why she was having problems. I was helping her when I saw someone on an upper walkway about 75 yards away looking at us and making a slashing motion across his neck. Now, we were the only golfers on the range so I was pretty sure he was motioning at us. So, I saw him slash his neck a second time and make a whirly motion with his finger. Since he was up a pretty steep hill I didn't feel like I wanted to walk all the way up to him. So, I just hollered, "What." He said, "You can't do that." I said, "Do what." He said, "Give instruction on the range." I said, "She's my wife." He said, "I don't care, you can't do that." Hmmmm.......surely you are not serious. Oh, but he was.

I stopped helping my wife, we hit our balls, and I walked up to the pro shop to talk to the guy. Turns our he was an apprentice pro and assistant manager. According to him nobody, including him, is allowed to 'instruct' or help someone with their swing on their range unless that someone is licensed and pays a fee. They have an agreement with a golf school there and you can't do it. I tried to explain to him that my agreement is not with the golf school, but with the golf club since I bought the membership from the club. I also pointed out that while I could understand why they would not want outside professionals giving instruction on their range, it seemed a little far fetched to not allow me to help my wife. He wasn't buying it. So I asked for the head guy and he gave me the number for someone in California. I'm going to call, but I thought I would get some feedback from some of you since many of you are either professionals or have experience working at golf courses.

I understand the protection of the range from outside instruction as that would take income away from the school and/or course. I also understand they would like you to pay one of their pros to help with your swing and in fact my wife has set up some time with one of the pros to get on their plane board. However, if there is absolutely no interaction between golfers allowed on the range then this should have been pointed out when I bought the membership and/or the range card. Yesterday during our discussion, I did ask if there were any written rules, the gentleman said yes, but when I asked for a copy suddenly weren't any written rules. In my opinion, if you have rules these should be either written and handed out or at least prominently displayed so everyone knows what the rules are before the fact. I think the guy should have left us alone to hit our balls, work on our swings, and enjoy the day.

Can some of you with experience running or working at golf courses offer input please?

Aloha

[heybrady]

I say BS. Call them on it and voice your displeasure. I think the assistant was a little over zealous.

The rule makes sense, but the moment you said it was your wife he should have apologized and moved on.

[tatertot]

Agree completely. Sounds like a "junior" pro trying to put on the big boy pants. Most driving ranges have rules posted that state "no paid instruction on range except from approved professional."

And, by the way, if this rule about giving instruction on the range isn't posted -- or printed on your contract -- ask for your money back.

[InTheHole]

A bunch of hogwash. You talk to your wife all you want.

I take my son to the range all the time and help him with his swing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, IMO. If you don't want to pay a pro, you're not getting pro advice... simple as that. If that's good enough for you and your wife, fine.

I could see if the rules were posted and you were a teaching pro at another facility, I guess I could understand it (still wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand it).

Next time, ask to have his boss/manager come over and discuss the situation with you.

[Pepperturbo]

I agree with the BS statement. I would also tell the little jerk he'd better get a life and realize if I want to assist my wife, I will. If he doesn't like it, I'd for sure look for the manager and tell him. If he doesn't like it I'd look him in the eye and say in no uncertain term, I will make it a point to inform everyone I encounter that THE PEOPLE that run this range are jerks and its not a good place to practice. I'd make sure everyone at the clubs I visit know, and all my neighbors knows how they treat folks and I'd for sure post my review on the web so others in the area know of my experience. I would have also demanded my $$$ back and left for more accommodating facilities.

As for the rule itself - makes sense for all professional instructors - but to lump friends or family in that's when it becomes ridiculous.

Can you tell - I hate jerks and control freaks.

[goinglow72]

That situation would have been ugly if it was me and my wife.... I think the guy acted wat out of line. I don't care what is or isnt posted about giving instructions on the range...It's your wife for crying out loud.

I think you should post what golf course this happened at...

[Togatown22]

I thought you were joking.

That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. I would get my money back after a talk with the manager, take that course out of your 4 or 5 course/range rotation, and tell my friends what a joke that course is.

I would be so dumbfounded in that situation that I would have laughed in the guy's face.

[jak_bot]

How tall was the guy?

[Dizz]

If the range is owned by a PGA professional then there should be absolutely no lessons given on their range if the person is getting paid. You giving lessons to a friend, wife, son/daughter is absolutely fine as long as there is no money changing hands. Now obviously you aren't going to charge a close friend or family but you would be surprised at all the "range junkies" out there that solicit services to other players that frequent the range for less money than the pro charges. There are a few local guys around here that are good players that are known for doing this even though they are not teaching professionals. I know if I was planning to help someone out that I would stop in and make sure things were OK first.

[mat562]

It sounds like you had an encounter with a Grade A jobsworth or a rank idiot on an ego stoking exercise.

If the range employees can't differentiate between genuine coaching (no offence to your coaching skills) and perfectly routine swing-related conversation between two people happily and unfussily hitting balls on a near-empty driving range, something is drastically amiss.

In a world where many businesses are currently experiencing tough times due to a distinctly shonky economy, going out of your way to needlessy and deliberately antagonise a couple of customers - and [i]regular customers [/i]at that by the sound of it - is almost laughable.

Whatever the motivation for restricting coaching - which, let's be fair, has a perfectly reasonable grounding to it when it's considered in the proper context - it's a big fail in the customer relations department when everyday events like the one you've described get pounced upon by an overzealous and, frankly, rude employee who's seen an opportunity to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut and to show off a bit.

If I were running a range - and a friend of mine does precisely that - and a customer came to me, telling me that one of my employees had acted in the way you've described, I'd be embarassed and angry in equal measure.

[Skaffa77]

I think it's complete crap. I've never been stopped from helping a friend at the range or vise-versa. Thank god you weren't video taping her swing for analysis...he might have confusicated your video camera.

Based on your story, I get the impression he was trying to be a smart-a$$ about a guy giving a significant other advice on the golf swing (many of us have faced the consequences of that once in our lives)...

Anyway, it sounds like you have other options so it might not hurt to go back and request a refund on your range card (minus whatever value has been used).

[golfwrxnut]

The "slashing throat" move is extremely threating. What a huge mental lapse of judgement on his part. Not only calling, but I'd suggest writing a letter bringing this very serious incident to the "head guy in California". Talk to the head pro too and let him know about the letter and phone call to Cali. I'm asusming this pro hired him. This type of conduct cannot and should not be tolerated... ever.

He should have approached you, watched a few swings and interaction and determined through normal body language that this isn't a teacher / pupil relationship. Besides, what teacher shows up and hits balls with you in the next stall??

This guy is a cancer and should be removed. At least in my opinion.

[bjackson]

[quote name='Dizzub' post='1982394' date='Oct 1 2009, 12:38 PM']If the range is owned by a PGA professional then there should be absolutely no lessons given on their range if the person is getting paid. You giving lessons to a friend, wife, son/daughter is absolutely fine as long as there is no money changing hands.[/quote]


Couldn't say it better or more clearly myself.

[Grum]

think the chap in question has a simple case of wee-man syndrome.

Best ignore everything he says, and do what you can to wind him up as much as possible.

[Sawgrass]

In a game that is looking to encourage new players, such behavior by the range employee is terrible. I hope when you call the "head guy in California" you'll be sure to point out that the employee was so rude as to make jestures at you from 75 yards away rather than coming down from his perch to respectfully talk to you. I also hope you'll post the results of your call.

[caanders]

Ditto on everything said above. Those guys must be joking and if it is not written for you to see it then they shouldn't enforce it. If they give you any more problems then ask for your money back. If they refuse that, play golf there everyday day to get the most of the membership and stick it to them in 2010.

I would have told "the assistant to the golf pro" that unless he was a marriage counselor leave us alone.

[ZBigStick]

That is ludicrous! I agree with all of the previous posts. This a**. pro certainly does not know how to move up the ladder. It is certainly not by pissing off the membership.

I recently encountered two accomplished amateurs helping each other with their swings, but they failed to do so at a respectful volume. It was extremely distracting as there were few available stations to move away to. As you were alone on the range this would not be an issue, nor am I implying that you wouldn't be respectful of others, your situation just reminded me of that incident.

[MMB1500]

[quote name='tatertot' post='1982312' date='Oct 1 2009, 08:02 PM']Agree completely. Sounds like a "junior" pro trying to put on the big boy pants. Most driving ranges have rules posted that state "no paid instruction on range except from approved professional."

And, by the way, if this rule about giving instruction on the range isn't posted -- or printed on your contract -- ask for your money back.[/quote]

+1.

He sounds like your typical jumped-up proshop jobsworth.

[Boogs2]

Wow....that "asst. pro" is a d-bag...a very large and smelly one. Giving advice to your significant other or friend or family should not be considered under the rules of "professional coaching" even if you are butch harmon or hank haney.

Also, with the asst. pro making slashing action towards the neck...you can sue for that and say that you felt threatened and you and your wife feel VERY uncomfortable to go back. Make a HUGE deal out of it. All the guy had to do was politely say..."excuse me sir, i know you're just giving pointers, but we have rules about that here on the range. thanks". Plain and simple as that. Also, if you decide to leave that club and they wont give you a refund...hire a lawyer and tell the reason why you are leaving and since they dont have it written in a rules guide or its not in the contract, then their rule is not binding.

I know its messed up how its so easy to sue nowadays and part of it is because people taking advantage of the legal system etc etc...but this is one of the times where the golf course/country club administration and its "pros" are completely out of line. It really sucks that s**t like this still happens. I hope you get your money back and that "asst. pro" is fired and is never allowed anywhere near golf ranges/courses. That is completely uncalled for. Good luck.

[KevCarter]

Either the policy is silly, or the young assistant took it too far...

These responses are over the top. A respectful phone call to the owner - manager should be all it takes to rectify the problem...

Kevin

[OpusX20]

I find this story incredible. I can't imagine treating someone like this or allowing one of my employees to do this. Let's pretend you were giving paid professional instruction. You don't handle that with a throat slash gesture from 75 yards away. This should have been discussed professionally and privately away from the "student".

When I was a PGA club pro, I actually allowed outside professional to conduct limited instruction at my course. I was head pro in an area where there was significant elevation changes and my course was at the lowest elevation. Often the area courses would be snowed/frosted in and the pros needed a place to conduct some instruction. I always welcomed those pros and their students to my range. We didn't even charge them any kind of fees, even for range balls. Of course, none of them would just show up on the range and start teaching without setting it up in advance, so I never had to deal with the scenario painted by the OP. But, if I had come across this situation, it would have been handled much differently.

As suggested earlier, I would definitely send a letter. Frankly, this is grounds for firing that employee IMO.

[Dizz]

[quote name='kevcarter ' post='1982494' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:23 PM']Either the policy is silly, or the young assistant took it too far...

These responses are over the top. A respectful phone call to the owner - manager should be all it takes to rectify the problem...

Kevin[/quote]


[quote name='OpusX20' post='1982503' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:27 PM']I find this story incredible. I can't imagine treating someone like this or allowing one of my employees to do this. Let's pretend you were giving paid professional instruction. You don't handle that with a throat slash gesture from 75 yards away. This should have been discussed professionally and privately away from the "student".

When I was a PGA club pro, I actually allowed outside professional to conduct limited instruction at my course. I was head pro in an area where there was significant elevation changes and my course was at the lowest elevation. Often the area courses would be snowed/frosted in and the pros needed a place to conduct some instruction. I always welcomed those pros and their students to my range. We didn't even charge them any kind of fees, even for range balls. Of course, none of them would just show up on the range and start teaching without setting it up in advance, so I never had to deal with the scenario painted by the OP. But, if I had come across this situation, it would have been handled much differently.

As suggested earlier, I would definitely send a letter. Frankly, this is grounds for firing that employee IMO.[/quote]

Right, the assistant was obviously out of line. Should he be fired? Maybe. But would it be OK with you if there were professionals or anyone for that matter (getting paid) using your range to teach their students? Or even worse, targeting your students while using your range? Sure, if another professional called first and asked then ok fine.

[ballshagger]

This situation has come up before on this thread. I disagree with the pro's perspective. In the thread before this, another family member was taking a junior to a range, the same thing was said to him. My feeling in this is this is probably set up as a no compete with other professionals. Its my doubt that there is a state law that prevents advice on a driving range. Although there may be some obscure reference to professionals and "lessons". It sounds to me that its a little like a doctor saying you can't ask your wife its OK to take an aspirin. The pro's perspective shouldn't doesn't apply to family members or friends. If the managers of the range continued to take this stance I would reevaluate were I did my golf business.
It deserves to be questioned and clarified.

[ZBigStick]

[quote name='kevcarter ' post='1982494' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:23 PM']Either the policy is silly, or the young assistant took it too far...

These responses are over the top. A respectful phone call to the owner - manager should be all it takes to rectify the problem...

Kevin[/quote]

I agree with you in principle, however the OP did ask to speak to the Head Pro/General Manager and the pro agreed with his assistant and they made mention of it being written in the rules, which they could not produce. Their ultimate resolution was for the member in [u]Hawaii[/u] to call a number in [u]California[/u], now that is ridiculous and over the top!

[OpusX20]

[quote name='Dizzub' post='1982513' date='Oct 1 2009, 03:33 PM'][quote name='kevcarter ' post='1982494' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:23 PM']Either the policy is silly, or the young assistant took it too far...

These responses are over the top. A respectful phone call to the owner - manager should be all it takes to rectify the problem...

Kevin[/quote]


[quote name='OpusX20' post='1982503' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:27 PM']I find this story incredible. I can't imagine treating someone like this or allowing one of my employees to do this. Let's pretend you were giving paid professional instruction. You don't handle that with a throat slash gesture from 75 yards away. This should have been discussed professionally and privately away from the "student".

When I was a PGA club pro, I actually allowed outside professional to conduct limited instruction at my course. I was head pro in an area where there was significant elevation changes and my course was at the lowest elevation. Often the area courses would be snowed/frosted in and the pros needed a place to conduct some instruction. I always welcomed those pros and their students to my range. We didn't even charge them any kind of fees, even for range balls. Of course, none of them would just show up on the range and start teaching without setting it up in advance, so I never had to deal with the scenario painted by the OP. But, if I had come across this situation, it would have been handled much differently.

As suggested earlier, I would definitely send a letter. Frankly, this is grounds for firing that employee IMO.[/quote]

Right, the assistant was obviously out of line. Should he be fired? Maybe. But would it be OK with you if there were professionals or anyone for that matter (getting paid) using your range to teach their students? Or even worse, targeting your students while using your range? Sure, if another professional called first and asked then ok fine.
[/quote]

No. I wouldn't be ok with folks giving instruction and getting paid, unless it was something that I had previously authorized. That's what I meant to communicate. We had the policy of no paid instruction. I was just saying that I was ok with making exceptions to help out fellow PGA pros when needed. That's all.

[Mr Mizuno]

Complete BS... punch the guy in the face the next time!

[KevCarter]

[quote name='ZBigStick' post='1982520' date='Oct 1 2009, 03:35 PM'][quote name='kevcarter ' post='1982494' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:23 PM']Either the policy is silly, or the young assistant took it too far...

These responses are over the top. A respectful phone call to the owner - manager should be all it takes to rectify the problem...

Kevin[/quote]

I agree with you in principle, however the OP did ask to speak to the Head Pro/General Manager and the pro agreed with his assistant and they made mention of it being written in the rules, which they could not produce. Their ultimate resolution was for the member in [u]Hawaii[/u] to call a number in [u]California[/u], now that is ridiculous and over the top!
[/quote]

Well, if the assistant professional was just following the companies [b]STUPID [/b]policy, it would be tough to justify calling for his firing. Hopefully he will learn that this company simply does not know how to conduct a business, and will treat people responsibly in his next endeavor.

The only remedy is to take your business elsewhere, hopefully with a full refund.

I stand by my statement that the responses have been over the top. Simply my opinion.

Kevin

[Hathstauwk]

[quote name='tatertot' post='1982312' date='Oct 1 2009, 02:02 PM']Agree completely. Sounds like a "junior" pro trying to put on the big boy pants. Most driving ranges have rules posted that state "no paid instruction on range except from approved professional."[/quote]

+1 and makes sense under those conditions.

People always talk to each other on the range about things they are doing....even complete strangers!

Agree with others here.....the throat slashing gesture is going wayyyy too far. I would be reporting that to the guy in the pro shop, to their boss on site AND definitely in the letter/call to "head office" in California.

[VanillaEps]

[quote name='heybrady' post='1982301' date='Oct 1 2009, 02:58 PM']I say BS. Call them on it and voice your displeasure. I think the assistant was a little over zealous.

The rule makes sense, but the moment you said it was your wife he should have apologized and moved on.[/quote]

+1. When you told him it was your wife, he should have apologized for making the neck slashing gestures.

[quandoflu]

Just tell him you were not attempting to instruct her on anything, you were just trying to [insert sexual euphemism here] jk

That is a bit rediculous. Sounds like someone has an ego problem. Oh and the neck slash thing is not acceptable in any situation, unless you are friends. For one person to do to another is considered a threat these days. They don't even allow that in football, and the last time I saw it was MMA.