Newbie in my first tourney

[rockinar]

Question about exchanging scorecards

I'm a newbie who's playing in my first tourney on the 13th. How is this scorecard exchange done? I trade cards with my partner and I follow his play and track and write his score and vice-versa so there's no cheating? I know it seems like such a simple stupid question but I have seen a few PGA pros get a DQ for screwing this process up, so I figure it could not be that stupid of a question.

-A

[ed word]

if i can remember in junior golf, that's pretty much the gist of it. it's just way of checking for the right scores at the end of the round in an attempt to prevent DQ's by signing an incorrect scorecard and such...

[Sawgrass]

I don't play in many tournaments, but in the ones I have played the scorecards have had a place for me to write my fellow competitior's score and a "notes" area which can be used by me to write my own score, making it easier to confirm what my fellow competitor recorded for me at the end of the round.

I've always made it my practice to announce to my fellow competitor what I believe his score to be at the end of each hole, so there is no uncomfortable confusion at the end of 18. While I find this "announcement" practice beneficial, I don't see it done universally.

I'm curious as to what others have to say here.

[Ghost_Orchid]

The starter would usually have you guys switch cards at first hole...there's usually a space at the bottom of your opponent's card to keep your own score. After every hole, announce your score and verify that what you're writing down is what your partner actually have.

Good luck and understand the other guy is probably just as nervous as you.

[Tmiller72]

It would be really annoying to have someone announce my score 18 times during a round. If you have no idea what the player you're keeping score for made on a hole, then go ahead and ask. It's pretty easy to keep up with someone else's score. I've been playing tournaments for a long time and I can't remember anybody announcing the score after each hole. There's nothing worse than getting on your playing partner's nerves.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Tmiller72' date='28 January 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1264739997' post='2211334']
It would be really annoying to have someone announce my score 18 times during a round. [/quote]


It's interesting to me that you find that annoying. To me the clear communication simply allows me to concentrate on my game rather than concern myself with possible confusion.

[Tmiller72]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='28 January 2010 - 11:50 PM' timestamp='1264740602' post='2211344']
[quote name='Tmiller72' date='28 January 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1264739997' post='2211334']
It would be really annoying to have someone announce my score 18 times during a round. [/quote]


It's interesting to me that you find that annoying. To me the clear communication simply allows me to concentrate on my game rather than concern myself with possible confusion.
[/quote]

So if you didn't announce the score or hear your score announced, you would have trouble concentrating on the next shot(s)? Maybe I should have asked what the level of tournaments you are playing. Normally it's very easy to keep up with scores when people are making birdies, pars and bogies. But if guys are making doubles, triples and quads I could see it being difficult to keep up with.

[produffer]

i've seen it go both ways. some guys like to confirm the person's score after each hole - some people appreciate this, others get pissed off that you are reminding them 18 times. and on the other side, some people are totally quiet the whole round.. the problem with total silence is that at the end of the round, if the scores differ, it can get a little dicey...

personally, i only ask/re-confirm if i'm unsure of what the person got on a hole. and then i try and recap what the person shot for 9 holes at the turn. just to make sure that everything is accurate before the back 9.

there's no right or wrong answer. i'd say just do what you feel is most comfortable for you to accurately keep your score, and the person you're monitoring.

[Sawgrass]

Responding to TMiller72:

I've had a few occasions where my scorer had my score higher than it actually was, and correcting him on the spot was useful. On one occasion an up-and-down for par on a long par four was recorded as a five. I presume you've had better luck with the accuracy of your scorers.

In any case, it doesn't annoy me when someone is going out of their way to get it right.

[Newby]

[quote name='rockinar' date='29 January 2010 - 02:46 AM' timestamp='1264733194' post='2211079']
I'm a newbie who's playing in my first tourney on the 13th. How is this scorecard exchange done? I trade cards with my partner and I follow his play and track and write his score and vice-versa so there's no cheating? I know it seems like such a simple stupid question but I have seen a few PGA pros get a DQ for screwing this process up, so I figure it could not be that stupid of a question.

-A
[/quote]

Let's get a couple of the words right. As you are playing in strokeplay competition the others in your group are 'Fellow Competitors'. None of them are 'Partners'. That term is used for the player on your side in matchplay. You will be the 'Marker' for the person whose card you have.
The committee will often tell you who is marking who's card. If there are three in your group, A will mark B's card, B will mark C's and C will mark A's.
As a marker you only need to record the gross score for each hole, the committee will do the totalling.
There will be space on the card for you to keep a note of your score. You should confirm with the player (and your own marker) his (and your) score after each hole.
At the end of the round you sign in the marker box and exchange cards, check your card and sign it.

It is the committee's job to provide the card with the competitor's name and date of the competition (although they may ask the player to do it). The player is responsible for the accuracy of the score for each hole, entering his handicap if appropriate and ensuring the marker and he have signed the card.

Good luck

[cheeser]

The big thing for me is to agree to a procedure at the first tee. For example, call out scores on the way to the next hole or on the tee box, you get the picture. I had a friend who was very annoying and he would purposely ask for my score as I was setting up for my putt. "This is for 5, right?" Granted, this was recreational play but you don't want to be doing this in a tourney. Use a little common sense as well. If the dude obviously parred, there's no need to ask. On the same token, don't ask your competitor's score immediately following a quadruple bogey because that's the last thing he/she wants to recall.

If you establish something before the round, then there should be no question as to what's happening or being recorded.

[oldpalchamp]

At most competitive levels it's pretty easy to know what your playing competitor's score is. If I'm unsure, I'll ask to confirm what I think. Also, if I have a big number on a hole (way too often), I'll let my marker know what I had.

You will get used to scoring, just go out and have a good time commpeting. I think it was Bobby Jones who said, there are two types of golf, golf and competitive golf." Believe me, competitive golf is nothing like your regular game with your buddies, but, it is really alot of fun!

[Cobber]

This is what I love about this site. A person isn't afraid to ask a question that many of us probably wonder about but never bring up. I have played in a few tourneys and this very subject can be a little awkward especially the first time.Thanks to all of the informative posts, this helps everyone.

[lakebuff]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I just started playing tournament golf a couple years ago in a men's club and it pretty much takes care of itself. I will only confirm what the other person score was if I don't know. A lot of times it is pretty obvious what they got. If I put up a big number I will usually let the guy keeping my score know what I had walking to the next tee.

If this is the first individual tournament (Scrambles aren't the same) I would say just try to relax early on. Don't get there and hour and half early and hit 200 range balls and putt for 45 minutes. I would try to stick to your normal routine before you play a round with your friends. I fell into this trap when I first started. I felt like the tournament round was much more important and therefore I had to treat it differently. It really caused me to get out of my natural rhythm on the course. Also if you don't spend a lot of time reading putts normally, don't change that either. Pretty much approach it like you do any other round and you will probably play better.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Tmiller72' date='28 January 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1264739997' post='2211334']
It would be really annoying to have someone announce my score 18 times during a round. If you have no idea what the player you're keeping score for made on a hole, then go ahead and ask. It's pretty easy to keep up with someone else's score. I've been playing tournaments for a long time and I can't remember anybody announcing the score after each hole. There's nothing worse than getting on your playing partner's nerves.
[/quote]

Seriously? I never put a score down without confirmation from the player.

Kevin

[Sid Vicious]

The one time it can be a little awkward is if your playing partner throws up a nice fat number like a trip or a snowman. Asking a guy who is a little hot under the collar if he had a seven or an eight might get a spicy answer, but if you aren't sure, you still need to ask. Don't take what he says personally, but make sure you get the number right, since you have to protect the rest of the field from a mistake or any shenanigans.

If he has any class he'll apologize later on when he cools down a bit.

[InTheHole]

I've never played in a tournament, but during my "regular" rounds I always announce "put me down for a x" to my opponent- no reason not to get it right. Is announcing the score 18 times during what amounts to a game really that annoying? How many times during a baseball or football game do you check the score?

Sorry, just don't see it. Considering the confusion, bad feelings, and possible disqualification for screwing it up, I would think this is no big deal. I know when I enter my first tournament this year I'll make my high scores abundantly clear! (Hey, I want to get my money's worth, so I'm taking as many shots as possible!)

Unrelated but similar side note... at work I manage several employees. Before we had an automated system for tracking time off, we kept paper logs and such. Every year two people would give me an argument as to their remaing time off in Nov/Dec. Anyway- one year I got so pissed I sat them down and made them figure out what their remaining time was- I wrote it down and made them sign it. Would you believe I still got an argument a few weeks later?

Double check your score on every hole.

[Tmiller72]

[quote name='kevcarter ' date='29 January 2010 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1264781416' post='2211926']
[quote name='Tmiller72' date='28 January 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1264739997' post='2211334']
It would be really annoying to have someone announce my score 18 times during a round. If you have no idea what the player you're keeping score for made on a hole, then go ahead and ask. It's pretty easy to keep up with someone else's score. I've been playing tournaments for a long time and I can't remember anybody announcing the score after each hole. There's nothing worse than getting on your playing partner's nerves.
[/quote]

Seriously? I never put a score down without confirmation from the player.

Kevin
[/quote]

Seriously? How do you not know what a player you're keeping score for made one each hole? Unless of course he's making a huge number. If you don't know, then you ask. No reason to "announce" someone's score each time if you know for sure what that player made. I've been playing tournament golf for over 25 years at every level (jr, college, professional, am) and I could count one 1 hand the amount of times that I've had to change a score at the end of the round. Anyway, this isn't really worth debating anymore, it's personal preference on how to proceed. If someone goes over the line or is annoying, I'm sure they will be told so.

The next tournament I play in I bet I'm going to be thinking about this thread! haha

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Tmiller72' date='29 January 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1264796728' post='2212477']
[quote name='kevcarter ' date='29 January 2010 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1264781416' post='2211926']
[quote name='Tmiller72' date='28 January 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1264739997' post='2211334']
It would be really annoying to have someone announce my score 18 times during a round. If you have no idea what the player you're keeping score for made on a hole, then go ahead and ask. It's pretty easy to keep up with someone else's score. I've been playing tournaments for a long time and I can't remember anybody announcing the score after each hole. There's nothing worse than getting on your playing partner's nerves.
[/quote]

Seriously? I never put a score down without confirmation from the player.

Kevin
[/quote]

Seriously? How do you not know what a player you're keeping score for made one each hole? Unless of course he's making a huge number. If you don't know, then you ask. No reason to "announce" someone's score each time if you know for sure what that player made. I've been playing tournament golf for over 25 years at every level (jr, college, professional, am) and I could count one 1 hand the amount of times that I've had to change a score at the end of the round. Anyway, this isn't really worth debating anymore, it's personal preference on how to proceed. If someone goes over the line or is annoying, I'm sure they will be told so.

The next tournament I play in I bet I'm going to be thinking about this thread! haha
[/quote]

My apologies, I probably shouldn't speak up until I gain a little more experience.

Kevin

[teejaywhy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it is the marker's responsibility to observe or keep track of his player's score. When the hole is complete, the marker asks for the score and records that number.

Obviously if you become aware that that number is wrong or in question, you have to speak up and get it squared away. But normally, you are not tasked with watching the player and counting his shots.

[Sawgrass]

You know, this is the ugly side of golf.

I've always been attracted to golf's precision and its rules. And I've always been way more interested in playing well than in beating someone else.

Yet I've been shocked on many occasions to encounter people who actually get angry when they see that I'm choosing to play by the rules. As just one example, I've had complete strangers, with whom I'm randomly paired and with whom I'm not gambling or competing with in any way, come up to me and demand that I take free, illegal relief from a divot hole in the fairway. My playing out of the divot somehow offends them. I can guess why.

Playing tournament golf certainly cuts down on that sort of thinking, but not completly -- even on that very issue of playing from a divot believe it or not.

Now I discover that some people are annoyed at the simple act of confirming a score.

And I'm putting myself in the position of the O.P., and his attempt here to do the right thing. I don't have a clue what he might be thinking after reading this thread. He asked a simple question, and got conflicting and maybe even angry responses.

I can tell you this, if someone informed me that my innocently confirming his score with him annoyed him, I wouldn't comment on it out loud, but I'd very much enjoy his being annoyed. And there is no way I would sign his card at the end of the round if he didn't agree with my numbers.

And I can tell you something else if you don't already know it O.P. -- Kevin, who is on the opposite side of this argument from Tmiller, is also a golf professional as Tmiller states he is or has been. Kevin is being discreet and/or modest, but please don't assume that he is not credentialed as you evaluate what has been written here.

I suppose all this would be a lot easier if there was a guy in a striped shirt with a whistle following us around. At least the anger could be directed to him.

[tpariff]

I'm with TMiller on this one. If you're not 100% sure of your playing partner's score then by all means ask for clarification. It's pretty easy to tell that a guy made a 3 on a par 3 when he hit the green with his tee shot and 2-putted. Absolutely no need to "announce" a score there IMO.

Besides, when the round is finished, you typically compare the "card" to your notes before signing it just to make sure everything matches up.

One other note: you are only responsible for the hole by hole scoring and NOT the total, at least in the tourneys I've played (local, FSGA and USGA). The scorers will add up the totals.

Kevin

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='tpariff' date='29 January 2010 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1264800122' post='2212610']
I'm with TMiller on this one. If you're not 100% sure of your playing partner's score then by all means ask for clarification. It's pretty easy to tell that a guy made a 3 on a par 3 when he hit the green with his tee shot and 2-putted. Absolutely no need to "announce" a score there IMO.

Besides, when the round is finished, you typically compare the "card" to your notes before signing it just to make sure everything matches up.

One other note: you are only responsible for the hole by hole scoring and NOT the total, at least in the tourneys I've played (local, FSGA and USGA). The scorers will add up the totals.

Kevin
[/quote]

You know, I may have inadvertently contributed to this disagreement by my use of the word "announce" in my post #3 in this thread. I did not mean that I step up on a box and state my fellow competitor's score at the top of my lungs at the end of each hole. I did not mean that I would ask him what he shot after seeing him get a hole-in-one. I meant that I would respectfully say something like, "I got a five for you there, okay?" as we walked to the next tee. But I sense this carification has little to do with the disagreement.

[Tmiller72]

[quote name='kevcarter ' date='29 January 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1264797423' post='2212501']
[quote name='Tmiller72' date='29 January 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1264796728' post='2212477']
[quote name='kevcarter ' date='29 January 2010 - 11:10 AM' timestamp='1264781416' post='2211926']
[quote name='Tmiller72' date='28 January 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1264739997' post='2211334']
It would be really annoying to have someone announce my score 18 times during a round. If you have no idea what the player you're keeping score for made on a hole, then go ahead and ask. It's pretty easy to keep up with someone else's score. I've been playing tournaments for a long time and I can't remember anybody announcing the score after each hole. There's nothing worse than getting on your playing partner's nerves.
[/quote]

Seriously? I never put a score down without confirmation from the player.

Kevin
[/quote]

Seriously? How do you not know what a player you're keeping score for made one each hole? Unless of course he's making a huge number. If you don't know, then you ask. No reason to "announce" someone's score each time if you know for sure what that player made. I've been playing tournament golf for over 25 years at every level (jr, college, professional, am) and I could count one 1 hand the amount of times that I've had to change a score at the end of the round. Anyway, this isn't really worth debating anymore, it's personal preference on how to proceed. If someone goes over the line or is annoying, I'm sure they will be told so.

The next tournament I play in I bet I'm going to be thinking about this thread! haha
[/quote]

My apologies, I probably shouldn't speak up until I gain a little more experience.

Kevin
[/quote]

Stop it. I know you have plenty of experience and your knowledge of the rules is second to none. I was a little suprised by your response. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you don't have any playing experience. Sorry if that's how it came across.

[tpariff]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='29 January 2010 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1264800770' post='2212645']
[quote name='tpariff' date='29 January 2010 - 04:22 PM' timestamp='1264800122' post='2212610']
I'm with TMiller on this one. If you're not 100% sure of your playing partner's score then by all means ask for clarification. It's pretty easy to tell that a guy made a 3 on a par 3 when he hit the green with his tee shot and 2-putted. Absolutely no need to "announce" a score there IMO.

Besides, when the round is finished, you typically compare the "card" to your notes before signing it just to make sure everything matches up.

One other note: you are only responsible for the hole by hole scoring and NOT the total, at least in the tourneys I've played (local, FSGA and USGA). The scorers will add up the totals.

Kevin
[/quote]

You know, I may have inadvertently contributed to this disagreement by my use of the word "announce" in my post #3 in this thread. I did not mean that I step up on a box and state my fellow competitor's score at the top of my lungs at the end of each hole. I did not mean that I would ask him what he shot after seeing him get a hole-in-one. I meant that I would respectfully say something like, "I got a five for you there, okay?" as we walked to the next tee. But I sense this carification has little to do with the disagreement.
[/quote]

I knew what you meant and don't necessarily fault you for clarifying. In my playing experience I've never had anyone do that hole by hole, but rather only when there is uncertainty about the score. I've also found that in most cases if there is any confusion, the person causing it will offer his score upon finishing the hole.

Kevin

[Sawgrass]

Perhaps the board has heard too much from me on this topic, but I'll risk it.

I had just been thinking to myself, "You know, the USGA really should define appropriate conduct here. It's unreasonable for people to have to feel their way around this central issue."

Then, duh, I checked their site and found this under Etiquette 101:

[b]Scoring

[/b]In stroke play, a player who is acting as a marker should, if necessary, on the way to the next tee, check the score with the player concerned and record it.

I presume it is up to the marker to decide whether it is "necessary" in his/her opinion, or not.

[tpariff]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='29 January 2010 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1264808431' post='2212953']
Perhaps the board has heard too much from me on this topic, but I'll risk it.

I had just been thinking to myself, "You know, the USGA really should define appropriate conduct here. It's unreasonable for people to have to feel their way around this central issue."

Then, duh, I checked their site and found this under Etiquette 101:

[b]Scoring

[/b]In stroke play, a player who is acting as a marker should, if necessary, on the way to the next tee, check the score with the player concerned and record it.

I presume it is up to the marker to decide whether it is "necessary" in his/her opinion, or not.
[/quote]


I think many of us are saying the same thing as what you quoted. It's OK when "necessary" but not needed on every hole if it's blatantly obvious what the other player made.

[NPVWhiz]

First of all, have a great time! Enjoy it, and try not to let the little formalities keep you from focusing on the job at hand, which is to play good, solid golf.

I've played with both types of players. I have played with seasoned amateurs that casually confirm the score with you after each hole. And I've played with others that won't offer it unless you ask. You just have to take the first few holes and see if they guide you on what they prefer.

If after the first three holes I sense that a younger player is going to want to know after each hole, I don't make them ask. I just tell them as we're moving to the next tee. If someone seems annoyed if I ask, then I don't ask and just try to stay aware of what their making. Sometimes you might have to just ask. I figure that if a player doesn't want to be bothered, then he shouldn't have a gripe if a score has to be corrected at the end.

It is true that it gets a little harder to keep track in local events where a player might shoot 84 or 86. Some of our events don't have a handicap limit, so you get players that want to play in events but the get wound up a little tightly and once they begin to spray, they usually don't recover until 15 or 16.

Just play like you belong, and you'll be fine.

[ahl3bomber]

Best piece of advise is to not only check your score for the round, but also for each hole, as many times people add wrong and get the same score as you when really they had an incorrect hole and that could result in a DQ for you....

[Newby]

[quote name='tpariff' date='29 January 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1264800122' post='2212610']

One other note: you are only responsible for the hole by hole scoring and NOT the total, at least in the tourneys I've played (local, FSGA and USGA). The scorers will add up the totals.

Kevin
[/quote]

That is what the rules require. They specify that it is (always) the responsibilty of the committee to do the addition. Further, if it is a handicap competition, the committee is responsible for the gross to net calculation and stableford points in a stableford competition..

It can often be a mistake to do the addition yourself, check the total with your marker and assume everything is ok. The safest way is to simply run down the card hole by hole.