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A Handicap Index Quandry


Sean2

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No need to apologize, this stuff gets complicated, and sometimes if you don't start at the beginning it's very easy to lose information in the shuffle.

 

Want to meet Mark and I in Zimmerman for a beer? drinks.gifcheesy.gif

 

Kevin

 

 

I wanna come too! drinks.gifdrinks.gif

 

(Maybe when it gets a little warmer though.)

 

Just think of it, beer all over the place and no rules to confuse the terminally thirsty.

 

LOL, you KNOW your invitation is always open!

 

Kevin

I could be wrong
I've been wrong before
I'll be wrong again
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[quote name='mark m' date='25 February 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1267142119' post='2277365']
Sean: Go to your golf association website and lookup the staff.

Call or e-mail a person in the handicap department or in member services....they tend to be very helpful.....don't be intimidated....they are there to serve you.....I talk with my golf association often....your heart is in the right place and you are entitled to an answer.....Good Luck
[/quote]
Thanks Mark!

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bdcava: Maybe....consider a couple of things first:

 

Do you try harder in 9 hole league play than in your 18 hole rounds?

 

Or do you "choke" when you have a chance to break 80 for 18 holes? (Where breaking 40 for 9 isn't the same barrier for you.)

 

Or is there some other reason? Different course, different tees, etc etc

 

Only you really know the answers.......use it as motivation to shoot better 18 hole rounds....you are capable.....I had similiar problems breaking scoring barriers when I was younger....then you do it and you move on to the next one......mental game.....or will make you mental....

 

know you can do it!

 

Good Luck

 

Section 5-2

 

c. Posting Nine-Hole ScoresTo be acceptable for handicap purposes, nine-hole scores must meet the following conditions:

 

(i) The course must have a nine-hole USGA Course Rating and Slope Rating;

(ii) At least seven holes must be played.

 

There is no restriction on the number of nine-hole scores posted to a player's scoring record. Even if a player plays a majority of nine-hole rounds, that player can still utilize a Handicap Index (See Section 10-2) rather than a Handicap Index (N). (See Section 10-5 for computation of a Handicap Index (N).) (See Decision 5-2c/1.)

 

bc0e0f62-e16f-4102-990a-2696b8190dae.gif d. Treatment of Nine-Hole Scores

 

Once posted, a nine-hole score will be treated as follows:

 

(i) Nine-hole scores must not be designated as T-Scores;

(ii) When two nine-hole scores are combined, the USGA Course Rating is the sum of each nine-hole USGA Course Rating and the Slope Rating is the average of the Slope Rating of the two nines (if the average is .5, it is rounded upward to the next whole number);

(iii) Two nine-hole scores combined to create an 18-hole score should be designated with the letter C (e.g., 85C). If either of the two nine-hole scores was posted via Internet (See Section 5-2a(vi)), the score should be designated CI;

(iv) Nine-hole scores are combined in the order that they are received into the player's scoring record from any club or from any combination of nines, regardless of score type. For example, a front nine middle tee score could combine with a front nine back tee score made from any course.

 

An 18-hole score created by the combination of two nine-hole scores will display the date and course name (if applicable) of the latest nine hole score (e.g., April 29 and May 4 = May 4).

A nine-hole score will be retained for combination with another nine-hole score until it is older than the twentieth oldest eighteen-hole score in the scoring record, and nine-hole scores will be combined in the order they are received in the player's record, and "not necessarily by date."

 

Edit: added section 5-2

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the encouragement! I think part of it is the lack of pressure I put on myself when only playing 9. Could also be losing focus. Technically speaking would you agree that it's easier to break 40 for 9 than 80 for 18?

 

 

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[quote name='bdcava' date='26 February 2010 - 04:47 PM' timestamp='1267220876' post='2279503']
Technically speaking would you agree that it's easier to break 40 for 9 than 80 for 18?

[/quote]

It sure as hell is for me! While I only play 18-hole rounds, I've broken 40 several times, and shot 80 but never broke it.

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Interesting discussion. I play par 3s a couple of times a year and wondered if there were any handicap implications. Good luck with your association, Sean.

Regarding 9-hole scores on regulation courses, I can post 9-hole scores played at my home course on the handicap computer in the pro shop, but can't post 9-hole scores from other courses. When I type in a score of, say, 41, it asks me which 9 holes I played at my home course. I don't see any other option for entering another course's slope and rating, and, of course, the scorecards don't list 9-hole slopes anyway (though the golf association Web site does).

For clarification, at the computer, I enter my member number, then click to post, then am asked whether I played at my home course. If I click "no," then I get a list of courses I can choose from. The courses I have played 9 holes on are not listed. So I click "other," enter my 9-hole score, and it asks me which side I played at my home course. I don't see any other option.

Not trying to thread-hijack, but just wondering if this has happened to others and what they did.

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I don't know if your handicap system allows it, but mine allows me to use either the course's computer or my own computer. I go to GHIN.com to enter scores over the internet, and when you hit "post", the option for 9 holes is easy to see.

If your course computer has a different interface, maybe you can go on line to post 9 hole scores? Or ask the pro about how to handle it on their computer?

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[quote name='InTheHole' date='25 February 2010 - 09:43 AM' timestamp='1267108999' post='2276145']
Unless you don't follow the Rules of Golf (hint hint), you have to post the scores.


Those executive courses are like a carrot held out in front of a horse... they are so tempting. My course has no tee times- you just show up and the starter sends you out in groups or on your own. Great for a two hour round when you don't have time for a regulation course and formal tee times. You can grab a spur of the moment round of golf. Better than sitting home. But if you rush yourself, the score can soar. The course isn't as easy as it looks.
[/quote]


Very interesting topic. I play two executive courses alot on Sundays during football season. I can tee off around 10 giving the temps a chance to warm up and still be home by kickoff. I saw my handi-cap drop 8 strokes fast so I pulled those scores out. I looked at it I was cheating the system. I never thought I was cheating by not posting them. A friend at work plays a executive course 95%of his rounds. He runs around bragging he plays to a 3 hdcp. When he plays with us on a regular length course he shoots around 100. We all get a big laugh and he gets mad. He said he is no longer going to play anywhere but his executive course. He wants his hdcp to be legit because he plays alot of tourneys there. I mentioned that I don't record my scores when I play at his executive course and he said I would be cheating if I chose to enter one of his tourneys because my hdcp would be higher then it should be. My reply to him was that I wasn't interested in lowering my hdcp when I would be nowwhere close to that on a regular course. So now I run two hdcps and there is a noticable difference. Another friend of mine plays with me through football season and he likes posting his executive course scores to lower his hdcp. When our regular foursome gets back together in the spring they laugh when he states he has a lower hdcp then me and they wonder why I always shoot a few strokes lower them him but have a higher hdcp. I think the system is somehow flawed.

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[quote name='bdcava' date='26 February 2010 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1267220876' post='2279503']

Thanks for the encouragement! I think part of it is the lack of pressure I put on myself when only playing 9. Could also be losing focus. Technically speaking would you agree that it's easier to break 40 for 9 than 80 for 18?

[/quote]

In a word "yes". It's easier to consentrate over 9, doubly more difficult over 18.

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[quote name='Greenie' date='03 March 2010 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1267636664' post='2290476']
[quote name='InTheHole' date='25 February 2010 - 09:43 AM' timestamp='1267108999' post='2276145']
Unless you don't follow the Rules of Golf (hint hint), you have to post the scores.


Those executive courses are like a carrot held out in front of a horse... they are so tempting. My course has no tee times- you just show up and the starter sends you out in groups or on your own. Great for a two hour round when you don't have time for a regulation course and formal tee times. You can grab a spur of the moment round of golf. Better than sitting home. But if you rush yourself, the score can soar. The course isn't as easy as it looks.
[/quote]


Very interesting topic. I play two executive courses alot on Sundays during football season. I can tee off around 10 giving the temps a chance to warm up and still be home by kickoff. I saw my handi-cap drop 8 strokes fast so I pulled those scores out. I looked at it I was cheating the system. I never thought I was cheating by not posting them. A friend at work plays a executive course 95%of his rounds. He runs around bragging he plays to a 3 hdcp. When he plays with us on a regular length course he shoots around 100. We all get a big laugh and he gets mad. He said he is no longer going to play anywhere but his executive course. He wants his hdcp to be legit because he plays alot of tourneys there. I mentioned that I don't record my scores when I play at his executive course and he said I would be cheating if I chose to enter one of his tourneys because my hdcp would be higher then it should be. My reply to him was that I wasn't interested in lowering my hdcp when I would be nowwhere close to that on a regular course. So now I run two hdcps and there is a noticable difference. Another friend of mine plays with me through football season and he likes posting his executive course scores to lower his hdcp. When our regular foursome gets back together in the spring they laugh when he states he has a lower hdcp then me and they wonder why I always shoot a few strokes lower them him but have a higher hdcp. I think the system is somehow flawed.
[/quote]
I agree that the system is flawed, at least in this case. I saw my HI drop as well when I played the executive courses, but that HI was a "lie" as it was not a true representation of my ability on a regulation course.

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[quote name='bermuda' date='03 March 2010 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1267632322' post='2290312']
Interesting discussion. I play par 3s a couple of times a year and wondered if there were any handicap implications. Good luck with your association, Sean.

Regarding 9-hole scores on regulation courses, I can post 9-hole scores played at my home course on the handicap computer in the pro shop, but can't post 9-hole scores from other courses. When I type in a score of, say, 41, it asks me which 9 holes I played at my home course. I don't see any other option for entering another course's slope and rating, and, of course, the scorecards don't list 9-hole slopes anyway (though the golf association Web site does).

For clarification, at the computer, I enter my member number, then click to post, then am asked whether I played at my home course. If I click "no," then I get a list of courses I can choose from. The courses I have played 9 holes on are not listed. So I click "other," enter my 9-hole score, and it asks me which side I played at my home course. I don't see any other option.

Not trying to thread-hijack, but just wondering if this has happened to others and what they did.
[/quote]

That's typically people don't post none home scores on their home course computer.  The computer thinks you played at home.  As for your situation; I just went to GHIN to see if I could post a nine hole score for an executive course that's rated 56.6/0 slope rating and @2554 yds, couldn't.  But, it allowed me to post a score for executive courses that had a rating and slope.  It comes down to whether or not the course has been rated, and whether or not it has both 3's and 4's or all par 3's.

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The system isn't flawed. The system encompasses all players of all ability and all TYPES of players.

The same courses here could have a reverse effect on another type of player. Take a guy who can bomb it off the tee and hits great long to medium irons, but absolutely sucks at chipping and putting and anything inside 100 yards. The par 3 course is going to have him for lunch, because there's nowhere for him to "make up" the bad short game.

Then handicap system is based on probability and statistics. But in every distribution graph (i.e. bell curve), there's always some guys at the far ends of the curve. It doesn't mean the curve is wrong, however.

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Whether the system is flawed or not pretty much depends on what you expect from the system in the first place.

I think the issues brought up in this thread suggest that someone with a very good short game and a very bad long game, or the opposite, could post exactly by the rules and still be at a great advantage or disadvantage depending on the course. Is that a flaw? Maybe. Or maybe it's just a fact worth knowing.

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Exactly- as a higher handicap, when I play the par 60 course and have a few blowup holes, they affect my handicap much more than those same holes would on a Par 72 course.

When I compare my Par 60 scores to my Par 72 scores, my Par 72 scores have a much lower differential than my Par 60 scores. Gotta stop playing that executive course- but like I said earlier, it is such a lure with a 2.5 hour round, no tee times, and cheap greens fees. I can play a round after work and easily finish before dark on a nice night.

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[quote name='larrybud' date='03 March 2010 - 09:45 PM' timestamp='1267674301' post='2291920']
The system isn't flawed.  The system encompasses all players of all ability and all TYPES of players.

The same courses here could have a reverse effect on another type of player.  Take a guy who can bomb it off the tee and hits great long to medium irons, but absolutely sucks at chipping and putting and anything inside 100 yards.  The par 3 course is going to have him for lunch, because there's nowhere for him to "make up" the bad short game.

Then handicap system is based on probability and statistics.  But in every distribution graph (i.e. bell curve), there's always some guys at the far ends of the curve.  It doesn't mean the curve is wrong, however.
[/quote]

That's absolutely right... I've seen it with a younger friend.   My wife and I play a 4000 yd 58.9/102 executive course once a month for short game practice.  We invited another couple along for a Sunday 18 hole hit and giggle.  Par 3's are 125 - 200 yds long and Par 4's are 280 - 330 yds.  For an executive it's a good test.  I use 5i to 2i on the par 4's.  My friend (12 index and big hitter) pulled driver and 3 wds on par 4's thinking he' drive greens.  I warned him it's tight, undulated, and those clubs were not needed.  He didn't listen figuring he could over power it == he was all over the place.  His wife, my wife and I quietly chuckled because he was torturing himself.  He got 11 strokes... lost at least 3 balls, and his score was just under 80.


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[quote name='InTheHole' date='04 March 2010 - 08:31 AM' timestamp='1267713065' post='2292450']
Exactly- as a higher handicap, when I play the par 60 course and have a few blowup holes, they affect my handicap much more than those same holes would on a Par 72 course.

When I compare my Par 60 scores to my Par 72 scores, my Par 72 scores have a much lower differential than my Par 60 scores.  Gotta stop playing that executive course- but like I said earlier, it is such a lure with a 2.5 hour round, no tee times, and cheap greens fees.  I can play a round after work and easily finish before dark on a nice night.
[/quote]

Short courses are great for iron and short game practice.  However because they are short it's easier to maintain concentration over par 3 - 18; not so easy on a regulation 18.  Maybe look see if there's a real executive 18 to play; 3500-5700 yds.  

The solution isn't to quit playing them.  Look to see what you're learning from them and see what your weaknesses are on regulation courses.  Sounds to me like you struggle with concentration for 4-5 hrs, your long game isn't as good as you'd like and you're not managing the long course.  Your short game should be about the same; if not then something else is a miss.


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[quote name='Greenie' date='03 March 2010 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1267636664' post='2290476']
[quote name='InTheHole' date='25 February 2010 - 09:43 AM' timestamp='1267108999' post='2276145']
Unless you don't follow the Rules of Golf (hint hint), you have to post the scores.


Those executive courses are like a carrot held out in front of a horse... they are so tempting. My course has no tee times- you just show up and the starter sends you out in groups or on your own. Great for a two hour round when you don't have time for a regulation course and formal tee times. You can grab a spur of the moment round of golf. Better than sitting home. But if you rush yourself, the score can soar. The course isn't as easy as it looks.
[/quote]


Very interesting topic. I play two executive courses alot on Sundays during football season. I can tee off around 10 giving the temps a chance to warm up and still be home by kickoff. I saw my handi-cap drop 8 strokes fast so I pulled those scores out. I looked at it I was cheating the system. I never thought I was cheating by not posting them. A friend at work plays a executive course 95%of his rounds. He runs around bragging he plays to a 3 hdcp. When he plays with us on a regular length course he shoots around 100. We all get a big laugh and he gets mad. He said he is no longer going to play anywhere but his executive course. He wants his hdcp to be legit because he plays alot of tourneys there. I mentioned that I don't record my scores when I play at his executive course and he said I would be cheating if I chose to enter one of his tourneys because my hdcp would be higher then it should be. My reply to him was that I wasn't interested in lowering my hdcp when I would be nowwhere close to that on a regular course. So now I run two hdcps and there is a noticable difference. Another friend of mine plays with me through football season and he likes posting his executive course scores to lower his hdcp. When our regular foursome gets back together in the spring they laugh when he states he has a lower hdcp then me and they wonder why I always shoot a few strokes lower them him but have a higher hdcp. I think the system is somehow flawed.
[/quote]
Greenie, I think I know that guy, but he must have two jobs as he works with a good friend of mine, and they have the exact same discussion you mentioned all the time :)

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[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='04 March 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1267728394' post='2292996']
[quote name='InTheHole' date='04 March 2010 - 08:31 AM' timestamp='1267713065' post='2292450']
Exactly- as a higher handicap, when I play the par 60 course and have a few blowup holes, they affect my handicap much more than those same holes would on a Par 72 course.

When I compare my Par 60 scores to my Par 72 scores, my Par 72 scores have a much lower differential than my Par 60 scores. Gotta stop playing that executive course- but like I said earlier, it is such a lure with a 2.5 hour round, no tee times, and cheap greens fees. I can play a round after work and easily finish before dark on a nice night.
[/quote]

Short courses are great for iron and short game practice. However because they are short it's easier to maintain concentration over par 3 - 18; not so easy on a regulation 18. Maybe look see if there's a real executive 18 to play; 3500-5700 yds.

The solution isn't to quit playing them. Look to see what you're learning from them and see what your weaknesses are on regulation courses. Sounds to me like you struggle with concentration for 4-5 hrs, your long game isn't as good as you'd like and you're not managing the long course. Your short game should be about the same; if not then something else is a miss.



[/quote]

That sounds pretty close to my reality. It's not so much the concentration part, more the knee part- with bad knees I start to stiffen up and they get painful after awhile. I was diagnosed in the off-season so I have a better idea of what my limitations will be and what pain management route to take (proper pain killer for my problem).

Dr.'s orders- no walking before June, ride only. I can live with that!

My long game isn't that bad. It's not sooo long (240-260 off the tee), but respectable enough to survive a round. I have blowup holes where I'll shoot an 8 or 10 and that just kills a round. And it's usually caused by hitting shots too fat and flubbing them 10 yards into deep trouble. On a longer course, it may only go 10 yards, but that is still in the fairway where you can recover. On the exec course, it's in a clump of shrubs and you're sunk!

I'm brutally honest with my scores and taking penalties, even if I play by myself. At least for handicap purposes, you can use ESC... a silver lining if there is any.

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I rarely have blow up holes. I've been working extremely hard on my swing the past couple of years. I've taken lessons, I've read the books, I've studied the videos, and I've practiced...and practiced...and practiced.

I haven't seen any improvement except in my short game. I still average 200 yards off the tee and 140 yards with my 5-iron. Of course, I'm only 6'5", 225 pounds, flexible, and in fairly good shape. If I take my five iron length and multiply it by 36, than I should be playing at about 5,000 yards.

The reason I play the executive courses is I don't need to hit the ball far to be able to score. Last fall I shot a 59 on a par 60. Put me on a regulation course and I can barely break 90. I'm thinking of packing it in. :black eye:

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[quote name='InTheHole' date='04 March 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1267734298' post='2293207']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' date='04 March 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1267728394' post='2292996']
[quote name='InTheHole' date='04 March 2010 - 08:31 AM' timestamp='1267713065' post='2292450']
Exactly- as a higher handicap, when I play the par 60 course and have a few blowup holes, they affect my handicap much more than those same holes would on a Par 72 course.

When I compare my Par 60 scores to my Par 72 scores, my Par 72 scores have a much lower differential than my Par 60 scores.  Gotta stop playing that executive course- but like I said earlier, it is such a lure with a 2.5 hour round, no tee times, and cheap greens fees.  I can play a round after work and easily finish before dark on a nice night.
[/quote]

Short courses are great for iron and short game practice.  However because they are short it's easier to maintain concentration over par 3 - 18; not so easy on a regulation 18.  Maybe look see if there's a real executive 18 to play; 3500-5700 yds.  

The solution isn't to quit playing them.  Look to see what you're learning from them and see what your weaknesses are on regulation courses.  Sounds to me like you struggle with concentration for 4-5 hrs, your long game isn't as good as you'd like and you're not managing the long course.  Your short game should be about the same; if not then something else is a miss.



[/quote]

That sounds pretty close to my reality.  It's not so much the concentration part, more the knee part- with bad knees I start to stiffen up and they get painful after awhile.  I was diagnosed in the off-season so I have a better idea of what my limitations will be and what pain management route to take (proper pain killer for my problem).

Dr.'s orders- no walking before June, ride only.  I can live with that!

My long game isn't that bad.  It's not sooo long (240-260 off the tee), but respectable enough to survive a round.  I have blowup holes where I'll shoot an 8 or 10 and that just kills a round.  And it's usually caused by hitting shots too fat and flubbing them 10 yards into deep trouble.  On a longer course, it may only go 10 yards, but that is still in the fairway where you can recover.  On the exec course, it's in a clump of shrubs and you're sunk!

I'm brutally honest with my scores and taking penalties, even if I play by myself.  At least for handicap purposes, you can use ESC... a silver lining if there is any.
[/quote]

Blow up holes are killers ... I have a few friends that regularly face them.  Take care of those knees regardless.  My buddy (3 index) developed knee problems.  Since, he's dropped to a high 7 low 8 and now he's having knee replacement surgery.

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[quote name='Sawgrass' date='04 March 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1267678843' post='2292093']
Whether the system is flawed or not pretty much depends on what you expect from the system in the first place.

I think the issues brought up in this thread suggest that someone with a very good short game and a very bad long game, or the opposite, could post exactly by the rules and still be at a great advantage or disadvantage depending on the course. Is that a flaw? Maybe. Or maybe it's just a fact worth knowing.
[/quote]
That could be said without even taking handicap into consideration. Everyone has a course or two which really fits their game, and another course which doesn't, handicap or not.

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  • 5 years later...

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1267107757' post='2276110']
Last year my overall handicap was a 13.2, however during tournaments I'd get my lunch handed to me. As a senior I like to play par three courses, in addition to regulation courses. I went over all my rounds and on par three/executive courses my HI was a 5.8. On regulation courses my HI was a 17.7. All the tournaments I play in are on regulation courses.

I was wondering for this year if I should just not post my par three scores since they are so out of whack from my regulation course scores? For example, last year on a par 60 I shot a 59. Yet, the best I shot on a regulation course was an 82 (par 70). I want to follow the rules, yet at the same time I don't want to be way behind the 8-ball in any tournament before I even tee the ball up. It's discouraging.

I'm perplexed and would appreciate any comments.
[/quote]

Sean - the issue you raise is a common one - although the difference in your H.I.s seems extreme. The reason for the problem is a "short course yardage correction" in the course rating formula that the USGA uses. It assumes that any course between 3000 and 4800 yards is a shorter course than normal and an adjustment should be made "to account for the fact that players are not hitting very many full shots". You can check it out in the USGA rating manual. This is clearly not necessarily the case. An executive course with 10 par 3s with an average length of 150 yds (total 1500) and 8 par 4s with an average length of 330 yds (total 2640 yds), would be 4140 yards long and would be subject to the 'correction'. But these par 3s and par 4s would require "full shots" for all but the pros who can demolish most courses. So the argument for the 'correction' is flawed - it inherently assumes that par for the course is 72 (or so)..
A few years ago I wrote a paper about this issue along with a solution and submitted it to the USGA. I didn't receive a reply. I am going to follow up with the USGA over the next few months in the hope that the rating formula can be changed to avoid the unfair situation that you (and I) and many other golfers are in.

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[quote name='Geezer15' timestamp='1429620764' post='11405769']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1267107757' post='2276110']
Last year my overall handicap was a 13.2, however during tournaments I'd get my lunch handed to me. As a senior I like to play par three courses, in addition to regulation courses. I went over all my rounds and on par three/executive courses my HI was a 5.8. On regulation courses my HI was a 17.7. All the tournaments I play in are on regulation courses.

I was wondering for this year if I should just not post my par three scores since they are so out of whack from my regulation course scores? For example, last year on a par 60 I shot a 59. Yet, the best I shot on a regulation course was an 82 (par 70). I want to follow the rules, yet at the same time I don't want to be way behind the 8-ball in any tournament before I even tee the ball up. It's discouraging.

I'm perplexed and would appreciate any comments.
[/quote]

Sean - the issue you raise is a common one - although the difference in your H.I.s seems extreme. The reason for the problem is a "short course yardage correction" in the course rating formula that the USGA uses. It assumes that any course between 3000 and 4800 yards is a shorter course than normal and an adjustment should be made "to account for the fact that players are not hitting very many full shots". You can check it out in the USGA rating manual. This is clearly not necessarily the case. An executive course with 10 par 3s with an average length of 150 yds (total 1500) and 8 par 4s with an average length of 330 yds (total 2640 yds), would be 4140 yards long and would be subject to the 'correction'. But these par 3s and par 4s would require "full shots" for all but the pros who can demolish most courses. So the argument for the 'correction' is flawed - it inherently assumes that par for the course is 72 (or so)..
A few years ago I wrote a paper about this issue along with a solution and submitted it to the USGA. I didn't receive a reply. I am going to follow up with the USGA over the next few months in the hope that the rating formula can be changed to avoid the unfair situation that you (and I) and many other golfers are in.
[/quote]

First, welcome to GolfWRX!

Second, I am disappointed that the USGA didn't at least have the courtesy to reply to the paper you submitted.

Third, I rarely play par 3 courses anymore, but the issue is still relevant. For example, I have played 13 "official" rounds so far this year. Six have been in the 70's, as a result, my handicap has and continues to drop, which is good! However, the exec director of one "Am Tour" I enquired in said I would be playing from roughly 6800 yards given my HI. Ha! Too funny. :-)

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