Jump to content
2024 PGA Championship WITB Photos ×

How can a 5-8 handi never have an eagle?


hzppby

Recommended Posts

yea talkin bout myself...........
I've been plyn for bout 10 years and never had an eagle. black%20eye.gif
Came close many many times but nothing. Yesterday had a side match and i was losing by 1 going into the last hole had 6 feet for eagle and didn't even touch the hole. Still won cause he bogey'd and i birdied. I've ply'd with all kinds of people from 20 handis to new to golfers thats had an eagle....

Swing speed is 107-110 driver. Shot even and one over couple of times. i have the length i just cant get it done. Club pro thinks once i get one than its gonna open the flood gates. But its so annoying, everyone at the club gives me crap about it. Mentally doesn't matter what i do over the putt or chip, i've tired of thinkin its a birdie or par putt but it just blows.
:russian_roulette:

Any advice lets hear it im all ears.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 33
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

[size=2]dont feel bad man i went 3 years and never made a birdie i mean i came close like you said and just blew it..... once i made one they started coming in.... i still have my first birdie ball i made on a par 5..... my little brother whos 15 made a eagle..... beautiful drive, perfect hybrid to the green and was left with a 9 footer for eagle and drained it man..... then he blew up on the rest of the round lol..... he said i dont care at least i made my eagle..... be patient it will come[/size]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

work on your putting. after a long 2nd shot, you'll rarely be 3 feet from the hole. you will likely have a 20+ footer, and all you can hope for is to really lag it close and get lucky. That's the truth. I too am a 8 handicap, and I have had 2 or 3, just getting lucky with a long putt. Good luck man! And don't worry about it too much, if you can shoot par, you're already doing well. Remember, one shot at a time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Bulldogdoc' date='11 July 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1278851736' post='2568313']
[quote name='justodd' date='11 July 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1278851300' post='2568307']
I am a 14 handicap and I have had 3 eagles in the last 4 years, don't worry about it it will happen.
[/quote]


I'm an 8 handicap and made my first eagle this year. Eagles are mostly luck at my handicap in my opinion.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure most sub 10 handicappers would disagree.

It'll come soon enough. After numerous attempts for eagle on Par 5's my first eventually came with a 60 yard pitch shot on a Par 4.....now thats luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my 10 years of playing golf on a regular, I've gone from a 12-14 handicap to a 4 and have had three eagles _ one chip-in (par 5) and two from the fairway (par 4s). Have only had a couple of eagle putts because my regular course has very long par 5s. Stop worrying about it, you'll make one soon. Think how long a four-footer looks when you absolutely have to make it versus on the practice green.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been playing the best part of 32 years and I've never had a hole in one. Bummer. On the bright side though, it's probably saved me a fortune in malt whisky.
I have had a few eagles in my time though - including back-to-back eagles once. Still boring people with that story to this day. Our old friend mat562 will probably astound people with his story of 3 consecutive eagles - talk about showing off.;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldnt worry to much about it. The eagle will come, I went through the same funk last year went on a run where not only was I reaching some par 5's in two I was giving myself some great looks at eagle but couldnt quite drain the putt. Finally I knocked one to 12 feet and it was the worst spot of the green just pretty much dirt and dead grass between myself and the hole. I looked at my buddy laughed and said watch after all the great eagle looks I have this will be the one I make and sure enough pretty much bounced it right into the hole through all the dead spots.

[twitter]oneputtblunder[/twitter]
10.5 Aeroburner TP Fujikura Speeder Pro XLR8
14.5 X2 Hot 3 Deep Tour Green
18* X2 Hot Pro Hybrid
RSI TP 4-PW KBS Tour 120
Byron Morgan DH89 Rincon Neck deep mill or Circa 62 No 2
Vokey 52/56/60 SM5/TVDK/TVDVgrind DG S300
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/175527-one-putts-road-to-redemption-bag-04262014/"]WITB Link[/url]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try playing an easier course or a forward tee box. I played this week with my father, we played a short course and a forward tee box. We didnt feel the need to play seperate boxes as its fun to play golf together, so anyways I ended up having 3 eagle putts. Once you get over the mental aspecct and just play it gets easier. Now some may complain and say its cheating but I look at it this way, my main course has 6 par 5's that are just about impossible to reach in 2 as 5 of them have elevated greens. I have only had 1 eagle in over 10 years of playing there and that came from using a forward tee, which needed a driver & 3 wood to hit the green.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's my advice....Don't make getting eagle a goal. Just worry about getting better...shoot better scores, hit the ball and make good shots more consistently. Maybe you can try to shoot in the mid-70s everytime you go out? Like many others said, your eagle will come. I don't see how thinking about the fact that you haven't made an eagle is good for your golf game. "Too many mind"...Don't even let other people get in your head. Just work on your overall game.

I agree with your club pro though, re: floodgates opening. For a long time, my friend made breaking 80 my goal. It was such a big deal...He'd get so excited when he was shooting well, so dude would start thinking about his score, and next thing you know,he starts swinging differently....maybe trying too hard not to make a bad swing. Or swinging too hard because of adrenaline. This guy finally just stopped paying attention to his score and just worried about the shot in front of him, the hole he was playing. Sunk a shaky 4-footer to shoot his first 79. In the next 15 months, he ended up breaking 80 12 more times. Floodgates, for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I play to an 18 and I have had two eagles. I drove the green once on a 280 (down hill) par 4 and drained about a 12 ft. putt. I had just got a new putter and was making everything so I had the confidence to make the putt. I knew I was going to make it. The other eagle I had I hit my second shot from 200 with 5w and it rolled in the hole. Just luck. My friend plays to a +25 and he has had an eagle and hole in one. The day he got his hole in one he started out 8 then 11 then 1. LOL Alot of it is just luck unless you are a long hitter and can reach the par 5's in two regularly. Those days have been long gone for me to do that.
And to the guy that recommends moving up to a shorter tee box. If that makes you feel better then by all means do it. I play an executive course that has 200 to 250yd par 4's on it. I have had many eagles on it and regularly shoot low 70's there. It is alot of fun and makes me feel like I am a good golfer. When I come back to reality I know what kind of golfer I really am so I don't consider any eagles I get there or low score I shoot there worth mentioning in the real golf world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like someone said, don't make eagles a specific goal, things should just happen when you can string some good shots together. The more pressure you put on yourself, the fewer eagle chances you'll have, because it'll start from the tee and just ruin the hole and your scoring. I used to put pressure on myself to crush a drive down the middle on a par 5, or tell myself to always give myself a run at an eagle putt or chip, and that has cost me many birdies and pars, let alone eagles. Just focus on playing reachable par 5s and short par 4s shot by shot and the eagles will come eventually.

Cobra King LTD 9*, Fujikura Ventus TR Red 6X
Cobra King Tec 17*, Fujikura Axiom 105S

Adams A12 19*, Diamana Thump X
TM TP MC/MB, Fujikura Axiom 105S 
Vokey 250.08, SM9 54-S & 60-V, DG S400
Toulon Palm Beach

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been plyn for bout 10 years and never had an eagle. black%20eye.gif

Came close many many times but nothing. Yesterday had a side match and i was losing by 1 going into the last hole had 6 feet for eagle and didn't even touch the hole. Still won cause he bogey'd and i birdied. I've ply'd with all kinds of people from 20 handis to new to golfers thats had an eagle....

 

Swing speed is 107-110 driver. Shot even and one over couple of times. i have the length i just cant get it done. Club pro thinks once i get one than its gonna open the flood gates. But its so annoying, everyone at the club gives me crap about it. Mentally doesn't matter what i do over the putt or chip, i've tired of thinkin its a birdie or par putt but it just blows.

:russian_roulette:

 

Any advice lets hear it im all ears.....

 

Seeing as though you have the length all that's left is "condition" judgment, "shot accuracy", "putting", and the biggest of all inhibitors to any golf goal is - lacking confidence. One things for sure, making an eagle should not be a strong goal, least IMO.

 

Aside from traditional way to make eagle - most people get "lucky" making them on the 3rd shot by hitting it close and having it roll into the cup.

  • TSR2 9.25° Ventus Velo Red 59S
  • TSR2 15° GD Tour AD-VF 74S
  • 718 T-MB 17 2i° Tensei AV White Am2 90S
  • T100 3i & 4i MMT 95S
  • T100 5i-9i MMT 105S
  • T100 PW MMT 105S Wedge 113
  • SM10 F52/12, T58/4, DG200 127S
  • SC/CA Monterey
  • DASH -ProV1x or AVX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm on the hunt as well. I have good distance with my woods but get hung up with my short irons in most cases. I've had eagle putts from 30 (par 5) and 12 (par 4) and missed them both. Two rounds ago, my second shot on a par 5 was from 100 yards and I had to scramble for par after I flew the green. Last round, I had a 150 yard second shot on a par 5 and just pulled it a bit and ended up chipping again instead of putting. It doesn't bother me but I do wonder when it will finally happen. I might start to kick myself when I miss these but then I remember it's an abstract desire and just enjoy the birdie or par that I ended up with.

Titleist TSr2 9 Ventus Black 6x | Titleist TSr2 15 Ventus Black 7x | Titleist TSr2 18 Ventus Black 8x  Titleist 620mb 4-P X7 | NCW 51 55 59 X7 | Scotty Cameron NP2 Timeless

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surprised you never chipped one in or jarred one from the fairway. Your SS is probably a few MPH faster than mine these days and I usually get 2 or 3 a year. Obviously you have a mental block, so it will probably come unexpectedly, like draining one from the fairway, or hitting one close enough on a par 5 to have a tap-in. You're probably putting too much pressure on yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It looks good on the scorecard, but the final score is what really matters. I've eagled every par 5 on my home course several times each, most recently #5 on my last round before my surgery. There's no special feeling about it for me really. I just worry about the number at the end of the round. And besides that, an eagle rarely gets a skin on any of those holes save #18 in the weekly event they do there.

I feel more accomplished birding 4 of 5 consecutive holes, with 3 of them being in a row a few rounds ago when playing with friends and winning big money in WOLF. Why? I don't know, but playing consistent to me is more of an accomplishment than having one good hole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im a 6hcp and I have had 3...all this year! On a short par 4..uphill chip over bunker to elevated green and could not see the hole..made it. Par 5 green in 2 then drained left to right 35 footer. On a par 5 was about 240yds from the front...hit 3w that landed short and rolled up to about 3ft..made putt. I guess being a 6hcp I can play descent golf and hit some good shots at times, but I must admit those were pretty much all luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 handicap here. I usually make a few eagles each year, mostly on par 5s, though I've holed a few irons from the fairway on par 4s. Still looking for that ace, though. I hit it a decent distance, so I generally get a putt for eagle every couple of rounds, though most are long putts, and I don't convert very often.So far this year, I have 3, which is more than I had all last year. They've all been on par 5s, though they've each come in different ways. The first, I came up a quarter inch short of an albatross from 247 out. The second was on a short, downhill par 5, where I crushed my drive and had a 9-iron into the green. I hit it to about 6 feet and made the putt. The third was on a 607 yard par 5 where I hit two good shots to get within 50 yards of the green, and holed the wedge shot.

I wouldn't get discouraged. It'll come. If you stop getting opportunities, that's when I'd start to worry.

Ping G430 LST 9* (set to 7.5*), 45", Fujikura Ventus TR Black 6x
Ping G430 LST 14.5* (set to 13*) Fujikura Ventus Black 7x
Ping G430 Max 18* (set to 17*) Fujikura Ventus Black 8x or Tour Edge CBX Iron-Wood 17* (Black Pearl) Fujikura Ventus HB Blue 9x
Epon AF-306 4i + Epon AF-Tour CB2 5-PW, Nippon Modus 125X
Yururi Seida Black 52*, Nippon Modus 125/Titleist Vokey SM8 58* K-Grind & 62* M-Grind DG S200
Byron Morgan long pipe neck B-17, Brushed Mystic finish, 34" or Byron Morgan long pipe neck beached 007x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to brag but I get at least a few eagles every month. :tongue:

The par fives on my course play about 500 yards so it is really more like a long par four. If you really want one that bad I would suggest finding some shorter par fives. :beruo:

Taylormade Stealth Plus (9) - Tensei 1K Pro Orange 60

Taylormade Stealth Plus (15) - Tensei 1K Pro Orange 70

Taylormade Stealth Plus (19) - Tensei 1K Pro Orange 80

Srixon Z945 3-PW - DG Tour X100

Taylormade MG3 54.11 - DG Tour S400

Taylormade MG3 60.08 - DG Tour S400

Scotty Cameron Studio Style NP2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Evolved' date='12 July 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1278950738' post='2570490']
[quote name='harold baines' date='12 July 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1278949618' post='2570446']
why waste your first eagle on a par 5,

wait and just get a hole in one someday
[/quote]

My first eagle was a hole in one. True story.
[/quote]

+1 my one and only eagle was a hole in one on a par 3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was a 4.2 index the summer before finally making my first eagle...now, they happen with rather frequent regularity.

I'd say the biggest thing that will help you is trying to not get caught up in the anticipation of having the opportunity of making your first eagle. This will take the pressure off and more than likely lead to your first eagle.

Best of luck!

[size=2][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][b][color=#000000]Titleist TS3 10.5[/color][color=#a9a9a9] Fujikura Speeder Tour Spec 9.2 x-flex[/color]---[color=#000000]Titleist TS3 13.5[/color] [color=#a9a9a9]Aldila NV 95 x-flex[/color]--[color=#000000]-Titleist TS3 18.0[/color] [color=#a9a9a9]Fujikura Fit-On Pro 95 x-flex[/color]---[color=#000000]Titleist 718 AP2 #3[/color] [color=#a9a9a9]Project X 7.0[/color][/b]
[b][color=#000000]Titleist 718 AP2 #5-#9[/color] [color=#a9a9a9]Project X 7.0[/color]--[color=#000000]-Vokey SM7 46.10 F Grind[/color][color=#a9a9a9] Project X 7.0[/color]---[color=#000000]Vokey SM7 52.12 F Grind[/color] [color=#a9a9a9]Project X 7.0[/color]---[color=#000000]Vokey SM7 56.10 S Grind[/color] [color=#a9a9a9]Project X 7.0[/color]---[color=#000000]Vokey SM7 60.04 L Grind[/color] [color=#a9a9a9]Project X 7.0[/color][/b]
[b][color=#000000]Scotty Cameron Select Newport II[/color]---[color=#000000]Scotty Cameron Select Squareback 1.5[/color]---[color=#000000]Scotty Cameron Tour Newport 2.5 350g.[/color] [color=#000000]welded neck[/color]---[color=#000000]Scotty Cameron Tour Rat Concept 2.0[/color]---[color=#000000]Titleist ProV1x[/color][/b][/font][/size]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The course I play at home is fairly short, 5800 from tips, but it is really hilly, and small greens add to the challenge of hitting them. The par 5's are fairly short (around 480-500) and i've not once eagled one. I've come extremely close, but I'm a short hitter (Driver-230 +/-) so, it is abit tougher. My first eagle was when I holed a pitch shot into a par 4. (Driveable for longer hitters, 270ish yards.) I came almost pin high on the right, and hit my 30yard approach in the hole. I'm a ten handicap, but I'm sure trying to go after those par 5's when I feel like I can. Birdies haven't been too much of a problem, as I usually end up with a short pitch shot for my third. Hopefully I will hole one of those 3rd shots, and start counting the eagles! I wish the best of luck to you! They will come! I would just focus on getting third shots and putts close, and perhaps they'll start to fall.

Callaway Paradym AI Smoke TD 8.0 Fujikura Ventus Velocore+ 7X

Titleist TSi3 15 Mitsubishi Tensei AV Raw White 75X   

Callaway Apex UW 19 Project X HZRDUS RDX 80 6.5

Srixon ZX7 4-PW Project X LS 6.5

Titleist Vokey SM9 50.12F True Temper Dynamic Gold S200

Titleist Vokey SM9 54.12D True Temper Dynamic Gold S200

Titleist Vokey SM9 60.04T True Temper Dynamic Gold S200

Scotty Cameron Super Select Newport+

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 PGA Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put  any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 PGA Championship - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Block - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Patrick Reed - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Brooks Koepka - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Josh Speight - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Takumi Kanaya - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kyle Mendoza - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Adrian Meronk - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jordan Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jeremy Wells - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jared Jones - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      John Somers - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Larkin Gross - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Tracy Phillips - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jon Rahm - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Keita Nakajima - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kazuma Kobori - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      David Puig - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Ryan Van Velzen - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Bettinardi covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Max Homa - Titleist 2 wood - 2024 PGA Championship
      Scotty Cameron experimental putter shaft by UST - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 13 replies
    • 2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Monday #1
      2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Tuesday #1
      2024 Wells Fargo Championship - Tuesday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Akshay Bhatia - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Matthieu Pavon - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Keegan Bradley - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Webb Simpson - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Emiliano Grillo - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Taylor Pendrith - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Kevin Tway - WITB - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      New Cobra equipment truck - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Eric Cole's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Custom Cameron putter - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Matt Kuchar's custom Bettinardi - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Justin Thomas - driver change - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Rickie Fowler - putter change - 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Rickie Fowler's new custom Odyssey Jailbird 380 putter – 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Tommy Fleetwood testing a TaylorMade Spider Tour X (with custom neck) – 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
      Cobra Darkspeed Volition driver – 2024 Wells Fargo Championship
       
       
       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Monday #1
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Monday #2
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Tuesday #1
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Tuesday #2
      2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Pierceson Coody - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Kris Kim - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      David Nyfjall - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Adrien Dumont de Chassart - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Jarred Jetter - North Texas PGA Section Champ - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Richy Werenski - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Wesley Bryan - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Parker Coody - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Peter Kuest - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Blaine Hale, Jr. - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Kelly Kraft - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Rico Hoey - WITB - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Adam Scott's 2 new custom L.A.B. Golf putters - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
      Scotty Cameron putters - 2024 CJ Cup Byron Nelson
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Haha
        • Like
      • 11 replies
    • 2024 Zurich Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Zurich Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Zurich Classic - Monday #2
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Alex Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Austin Cook - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Alejandro Tosti - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Davis Riley - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      MJ Daffue - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Nate Lashley - WITB - 2024 Zurich Classic
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      MJ Daffue's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Cameron putters - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Swag covers ( a few custom for Nick Hardy) - 2024 Zurich Classic
      Custom Bettinardi covers for Matt and Alex Fitzpatrick - 2024 Zurich Classic
       
       
       
      • 1 reply
    • 2024 RBC Heritage - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 RBC Heritage - Monday #1
      2024 RBC Heritage - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Justin Thomas - WITB - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Justin Rose - WITB - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Chandler Phillips - WITB - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Nick Dunlap - WITB - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Thomas Detry - WITB - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Austin Eckroat - WITB - 2024 RBC Heritage
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Wyndham Clark's Odyssey putter - 2024 RBC Heritage
      JT's new Cameron putter - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Justin Thomas testing new Titleist 2 wood - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Cameron putters - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Odyssey putter with triple track alignment aid - 2024 RBC Heritage
      Scotty Cameron The Blk Box putting alignment aid/training aid - 2024 RBC Heritage
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 7 replies

×
×
  • Create New...