Leaner, Meaner AP2

[Bowie8]

I have read many posts in this forum about how fantastic the AP2 irons are. I was in the market for new irons and have tested many of the top names. I liked the AP2 but was concerned about the sole grind due to my sometimes steep and digger swing. I relayed my concerns to master clubmaker Joe Kwok who seemed to have a solution. He has done some grinding for tour pros who have stated to him the vast improvement to the clubs. I have not had a chance to properly test these new creations but will be forthcoming with my results. I cant wait to take out these Tour issued satin beauties for a round or two. Thanks again Joe.

[craz-e]

Good luck with those new sticks, might be time I got in touch with Joe myself, love the AP2's but wish they had a sharper leading edge/less bounce for my swing. Post a review when you get round to hitting them.

[AllenLew]

Would be interested if Joe could describe the grind he put on these, I have ap2's as well and may be interested. thanks

Allen

[caseyc1]

very nice, i have heard nothing but GREAT things about his work, i will eventually be having him do something for me once i get back to work.

[brkuck]

Sweet set. Thanks for the pics....helps me get through the next 3 hours of work. Let us know how they play!

[rufus mangler]

Wouldn't the bounce JK ground off the trailing edge be beneficial to a digger?

Did I misunderstand?

[Bowie8]

[quote name='rufus mangler' timestamp='1286661964' post='2736076']
Wouldn't the bounce JK ground off the trailing edge be beneficial to a digger?

Did I misunderstand?
[/quote]

The bounce of the the club is not effected rather the drag of the sole is reduced. Notice that the leading edge is slightly ground to improve overall bounce of the club. Joe may be able to explain it better. I still need to take these out for a proper test. I hope to have some info in the next few days.

[ZBigStick]

I would like to see Titleist offer a [b]B[/b] version AP2 710. Harkening back to the 962-B and 990-B.

Some have said there is a slimmer 'Tour Only' version, but I have yet to see any side by side comparisons.

Nice looking soles on those.

[Brick Tamland]

Satin finish FTW, nice sticks.

[drpino]

Amazing work Joe!

[rymail00]

sweet interested to hear how they work out.

i thought all the AP2's wer satin, no?

EdIT: Nevermind the AP2 soles wer satin and chrome hosels etc.

[joey3108]

Thanks GUYS AND Thanks Bowie,

Bare in mind that I've known Bowie here for a while ( become a true genuine friend ) and he came down for a personal fitting before, so I'm very aware on what i need to give him. He is a digger with a slight flip/casting at impact which produce a high ball flight especially the course he play with are mostly firm and tight. The harder he hit it the higher the ball flight will be.

AP2 are design to hit the ball higher due to width and angle of the sole ( and huge perimeter weighting head design ). So the nature that he is a high ball hitter is the main focus here to make him to be able to control his ball flight. This is the key issue to get a good distance control on his shots.


By cutting down the trailing edge, it narrow the sole quite a bit, thus it'll make the effective bounce plays less. AP 2 Leading edge are already good for a digger, so I didn't touch that. Bowie here is a better than average striker, thus this modification should give him a better control on the club to create any shots he want.

The satin brush finish are just stunning and different on this club. To make a satin finish is easy to make them an even stroke and consistent trough out the set is NOT easy.

The specs of the club are 2.5* up right, D2 (D3 PW), 1/4" over lenght, G2 Tour wrap midsize, DGS300 Hardstep ( a true hard step with 36.5" 9 & PW )

THX again!

joe

[the_saint_siwa]

WOW, that altered AP2 looks[b] FANTASTIC[/b]!!! Heck, it looks way better than off the rack AP2.

Joe Kwok is truly the master!

[score72418]

Thanks for the info Joe and you did an awesome job on those AP2s!

I imagine some weight was removed from the heads during grinding. How did you offset that to keep the swingweight up on those heads?

[joey3108]

[quote name='score72418' timestamp='1286846975' post='2738868']
Thanks for the info Joe and you did an awesome job on those AP2s!

I imagine some weight was removed from the heads during grinding. How did you offset that to keep the swingweight up on those heads?
[/quote]

These are a hand pick heavy head tour issue and also the specs is 1/4" over lenght, That makes it easier for me to achieve the final specs.

Joe

[score72418]

[quote name='joey3108' timestamp='1286848325' post='2738906']
[quote name='score72418' timestamp='1286846975' post='2738868']
Thanks for the info Joe and you did an awesome job on those AP2s!

I imagine some weight was removed from the heads during grinding. How did you offset that to keep the swingweight up on those heads?
[/quote]

These are a hand pick heavy head tour issue and also the specs is 1/4" over lenght, That makes it easier for me to achieve the final specs.

Joe
[/quote]

Definitely makes sense! Thanks for the reply.

For those of us that don't have a choice of heads - how would you recommend offsetting the weight lost during grinding? Lead powder, lead tape, ect?

[joey3108]

This trailing edge grind lost only around 2-3gr, So It's easy to replace it using tip weight if the head weight originally is heavy enough.

I use a tungsten ingots treatment for weight adjustment 6gr or higher.


Joe

[PorkChopExpress]

Should have gotten the Bridgestone J36 PC's

Just joking

good looking sticks

[kloyd0306]

You could have saved yourself a grind- job by going to the Mizuno MP53 instead. They have the exact relief that you prefer, not to mention a superior forging.
Titleist are not the force they once were. Other companies are proving to be more innovative and original. Titleist has not seen a design that they would like to copy. And that includes their famous Pro V line of balls.

[moonshine]

[quote name='kloyd0306' timestamp='1287085071' post='2743211']
You could have saved yourself a grind- job by going to the Mizuno MP53 instead. They have the exact relief that you prefer, not to mention a superior forging.
Titleist are not the force they once were. Other companies are proving to be more innovative and original. Titleist has not seen a design that they would like to copy. And that includes their famous Pro V line of balls.
[/quote]
Really? The first week Hoffman had the 910 he won! Who won the mercedes at the first of the year after switching? The new prov "test" ball I played is as good as anything I have ever used. I love reading peoples opinions, and yours is pretty funny! I do like Mizuno, and don't like the AP2. Titleist is more than a force, a pure winner.

[JanKo]

Unbelieveable work by Joe again. Wish I could afford a set like that.

I´m officially jealous.

[kloyd0306]

I can't help being negative towards Titleist. They're like the 800lb gorilla in the room - you can't get away from them. They just pound us with their "No 1 ball in golf". Compare Bridgestone's Ball Fitting with Titleist's and you'll see what I mean about innovation and original.

Last to get out of the wound-ball market and subsequently last to to bring out a performance 2-piece ball. Last to market with a muti-cover ball.

As for their clubs - just copies, nothing more. Vokeys can be directly traced to the once famous JP (Joe Phillips) line by Wilson. Their first successful cavity back was the DCI - an exact copy of Tommy Armour's 845 (they even stole the designer to work for them). Last to market with a titanium driver.

Cameron putters were originally largely copies of Ping. Do I need to go on.....?

As a force re clubs - Taylor Made, Callaway, Ping, Adams - are all bigger than Titleist. The ball is what holds them up and that was started when the copied the Callaway Rule 35 ball 10 years ago. They infringed Callaway's and Bridgestone's technology with the Pro V (that's why you had to pay $5 more for them so as to pay the out of court settlement).

As you can tell - I am not a fan. Anything but......

To be fair, however, they make a good product - it's just that they're not original or innovative. They just copy everyone else.



[quote name='moonshine' timestamp='1287086280' post='2743253']
[quote name='kloyd0306' timestamp='1287085071' post='2743211']
You could have saved yourself a grind- job by going to the Mizuno MP53 instead. They have the exact relief that you prefer, not to mention a superior forging.
Titleist are not the force they once were. Other companies are proving to be more innovative and original. Titleist has not seen a design that they would like to copy. And that includes their famous Pro V line of balls.
[/quote]
Really? The first week Hoffman had the 910 he won! Who won the mercedes at the first of the year after switching? The new prov "test" ball I played is as good as anything I have ever used. I love reading peoples opinions, and yours is pretty funny! I do like Mizuno, and don't like the AP2. Titleist is more than a force, a pure winner.
[/quote]

[Bowie8]

[quote name='kloyd0306' timestamp='1287085071' post='2743211']
You could have saved yourself a grind- job by going to the Mizuno MP53 instead. They have the exact relief that you prefer, not to mention a superior forging.
Titleist are not the force they once were. Other companies are proving to be more innovative and original. Titleist has not seen a design that they would like to copy. And that includes their famous Pro V line of balls.
[/quote]

I hit the MP-53. I used to have a set of MP-57. They are nice but not as forgiving. Plus. I am hitting one club less and don't feel that I have to really go after the ball. I came from playing Vega Cavity backs so I know what good feeling forged clubs are like. These AP2s with the setup that Joe did are really playable from every lie imaginable. The feel is quite good and so far Have been quite accurate. I am going to Stateline, NV this weekend to play and will test them some more.

[tyorke1]

Joe , what do you put on the irons after grinding to stop them from pittying or rusting

[joey3108]

Most customers do nothing!

Stainless steel metal won't rust, Carbon steel do....but most are care about the performance more that look, especially on the sole where they don't see it at address.

We can send them to refinish if that is a must, but IMO it won't be the same durability anymore on the chrome plating.

Joe

[OrangeCrush]

Bowie8,

Can you comment on the before and after results of playing these irons? I too am a high ball hitter, I really like the feel/look of the AP2 710's but I launch them way too high.

Did you measure the launch angles before/after, how much did it drop?

Thanks
Mike

[joey3108]

Allow me to answer a little from my point of view and I'm gonna let Bowie to take over from there if my answer is in line to what he is experiencing.

The launch angle won't be to much lower IMO, may be 1*-3* for normal swing depending on swing style ( digger or sweeper ), but the big thing out of this modification is to let you be able to control the club better, especially if you are a better than average striker who likes to work on the ball. That is huge. In example, a punch shots..... A certain type of sole grind, bounce angle and width is not allowing us to hold/maintain the angle at impact properly which make the ball climbing/balloon. Especially on a certain type of course condition.

I wonder if Bowie gaining control and distance or not due to better flatter controllable ball flight. Are you B? I won't be surprise if you do.

My 2 cents!

joe

[Bowie8]

I have had a chance to put a few rounds under my belt with these clubs. First, I am a half club longer on full swings and the control is unbelievable. I don't practice as much as I would like so I have realied on full shots for most of my playing. I am now able to hit the 110yard PW with tremendous accuracy. I can punch a seven iron into a breeze without worrying about pulling the shot and am hitting great shots out of the rough. This is a new experience for me to be able to play "shots" with ease. The feal on well struck shots are as good as any club I have played.
I don't mind hitting the ball high when I can clear a tree to a tucked pin. This gives me more confidence when I may be of target with my drives.

BOTTOM LINE:
Do I feel like these clubs improve my game? I was a 6 index before I got these irons and I am scaring par every time I go out. These clubs are confidence builders and I am very happy to be able to have options that I didn't feel confident enough to use before. I tell you....I think In will be getting a lot better with these clubs and have no problem endorsing the work that Joe performed on these wonderful AP2s.

[LUMA]

The top edge is the reason I an NOT even considering these irons. Plus I love the feeling of a blade. They just feel soooo right.

I see ALOT of people using them. Better players as well. They must be doing something right.

[varsityhacker]

Joe those look amazing, you are true craftsman. I say that because the irons looks like they came from the factory like that and not an after market grind, very clean and they all flow together which to me again is a sign of a great craftsman.