Slight Straightening of Right Leg in Backswing

[dpb5031]

Plus deeper unrestricted rotation of right hip?

Hello all. No swing expert here, just a 4 handicap who reads quite a bit and enjoys learning about the golf swing. I've learned a lot on these GolfWRX message boards.

Watching some videos of Hogan recently I noticed how his right leg (knee) seems to straighten slightly in the backswing as his right hip turns freely rearward. It also looks like the right hip subsequently goes slightly higher but I'm not sure if this might just be an optical illusion. I noticed that this is very different from what I have always tried to do in maintaining a somewhat constant knee flex to coil against a stable lower body with minimal hip turn. This move is alleged to build up torque and provide for a powerful swing.

Today I experimented (trying to visualize Hogan) with letting my right leg (knee) straighten slightly (but not locked out) and letting my right hip rotate more freely. On the downswing I was rotating aggressively to my left side with a slight squatting motion to regain the knee flex in my right leg. It was a eureka moment; I never hit so many solid shots (really compressing the ball) in a row without any mishits! It seemed like it also automatically eliminated lateral movement off of the ball on my backswing. I also tried it with different stances from narrow to wide. In all cases it worked incredibly well at producing solid strikes.

I realize that without video it's tough, but based on what I have described, I would appreciate comments. Am I onto something here or just another short term band-aid?

[Dariusz J.]

You are on a good track, my friend.
The rear leg must straighten as the rear hip must go up and back. Trying to limit it consciously as per X-Factor is a wrong idea.
The trick is, however, to let the rear hip joint go freely until it meets its natural limitation thanks to rear knee joint meeting its natural limitation for rotational movement (one can regulate it via amount of rear knee joint preset at setup). That way you reach two goals - a) your rear leg won't ever straighten fully (which would be an error) because it cannot when the knee joint is rotated outside and b) you won't ever need to think about how much rear hip can be moved up and back.

Cheers

[golfsavvy]

Can't fault you or Dariusz. But, for everyone who does one thing I can find someone who does another. Nicklaus bent his right knee more. Check out Al Geiberger and George Knudson (Nicklaus said Knudson had a Million Dollar golf swing). Knudson was more like Hogan. Then there's Snead -- more like Geiberger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqolnxPXjQw&feature=related

Bottom line -- if you're hitting it better you're doing it better. You say your right hip rotates more freely. Agree that X factor is junk. Singh rotates hips past 45 on a driver. I'd say by rotating your hip your timing was better and you were able to better rotate the clubhead to square -- lack of hip turn often inhibits clubhead from rotating to square leaving the ball to the right. Over rotate hips and the influence is left.

Posture also affects hip turn. Driver posture will rotate hips more, wedge less.

Hitting it better = doing it better.

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1288406168' post='2765877']
Hello all. No swing expert here, just a 4 handicap who reads quite a bit and enjoys learning about the golf swing. I've learned a lot on these GolfWRX message boards.

Watching some videos of Hogan recently I noticed how his right leg (knee) seems to straighten slightly in the backswing as his right hip turns freely rearward. It also looks like the right hip subsequently goes slightly higher but I'm not sure if this might just be an optical illusion. I noticed that this is very different from what I have always tried to do in maintaining a somewhat constant knee flex to coil against a stable lower body with minimal hip turn. This move is alleged to build up torque and provide for a powerful swing.

Today I experimented (trying to visualize Hogan) with letting my right leg (knee) straighten slightly (but not locked out) and letting my right hip rotate more freely. On the downswing I was rotating aggressively to my left side with a slight squatting motion to regain the knee flex in my right leg. It was a eureka moment; I never hit so many solid shots (really compressing the ball) in a row without any mishits! It seemed like it also automatically eliminated lateral movement off of the ball on my backswing. I also tried it with different stances from narrow to wide. In all cases it worked incredibly well at producing solid strikes.

I realize that without video it's tough, but based on what I have described, I would appreciate comments. Am I onto something here or just another short term band-aid?
[/quote]

[tofur99]

you just stumbled onto a move from the stack and tilt side of the world. Before I get attacked yes I realize they didn't "invent" it or anything like that.

[iteachgolf]

Looks to me like Jack straightens his rear leg.

Could be wrong

[farmer]

If you turn your hips, your right leg has to straighten a little. Knudsen in this clip actually squats on his right leg, which adds another element to his swing. OT, but I really like the look of that golf course.

[dpb5031]

Thanks for the comments. After experimenting a little more I am beginning to think that the improvement I have seen from this move is because, by allowing my hips to turn more freely and consequently my right knee to straighten slightly, I am moving more rotationally and less laterally. Seems like this pattern is a lot less dependent on timing and the bottom of the swing arc is more consistently in the same spot. Now if I can only get myself to continue rotating all the way through the ball, allowing my pivot to square the clubface instead of relying on my "hand flip," I might be on to something. I can do it in practice quite well, but as soon as I'm on the course I resort back to my old slide, stop and flip. Frustrating!!!

Two things I wish I never heard of are the X-Factor stuff and "hit against a firm left side!"


BTW - I am coaching my 11 year old daughter and have tried to teach her a more rotational golf swing. I want her to have a swing that is less timing dependent and easily repeatable day to day. On all shots, from full swings, to chips and pitches, we work on the pivot, with the swing thought being simply, "turn and turn." She doesn't need to be like her dad shooting 71 one day and 86 the next .

[williambenjamin11]

This is Hogan forum, so like to insert/connect to hogan-I see hogan doing the right hip going back and to centerline (middle of pelvis/lower spine), so because right foot don't move and centerline don't sway to right, right leg will tilting to target and little straighten (unless your right leg become longer like plastic-man hehehe). And bcoz hogan sets weight on left foot earl in late/end of bs, the tilting and straightening looks more like that/obvious.

Look at ted williams swing (baseball), he do that also. Hogan learned from ted? Sam snead also, he was interviewed and he said that. So this is bs.

Now a question-what do ted williams do in ds and impact zone? The answer is hogan too.. Look at ted at youtube, how he ds and impact?

[williambenjamin11]

Mr. Petter7,

You seem knowledgeable and experienced and wise on the golf swing. Can you comment on the above post please?

[dpb5031]

I have read Slicefixer's [u]Encyclopedia Texarkana[/u] and have been trying to transition to a more rotational and "Hoganesque" swing from more of a lateral move with a shut club face and a timed flip. As mentioned here, I watched some Hogan vids on Youtube and experimented with trying to mimic is leg and hip action. I have also weakened what used to be a very strong grip to more of a neutral grip. It has been a struggle, but it's getting better. Purely anecdotal based upon my own experience (42 year-old self taught ((now 6)) handicap), but here are a few observations:

1. My shots curve less. I used to hit very high draws that started way right of target and even good shots bordered on hooks. I now have to be careful with alignment because I am so accustomed to aiming right.

2. I don't hit the ball quite as high with this technique, which is sometimes good and sometimes bad.

3. Feels like I am compressing the ball better and more frequently.

4. I am getting really good at knockdowns and half shots which were very hard for me with my old move. Now a knockdown is just like a big chip with a bigger club. Just turn-and turn. They fly much straighter.

5. Seems like I have lost a little distance with my irons, but my distance control is better.

6. My chipping and pitching has improved immensely. I am using the club's bounce more around the greens (weaker grip??) and rotating more with my core on chips and pitches.

Anyway, I shot 72 on my home course yesterday in some pretty serious wind. It was one of the better ball striking rounds I've had in a long while.

Thanks Mr. Hogan!

[happyroman]

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1288406168' post='2765877']
Hello all. No swing expert here, just a 4 handicap who reads quite a bit and enjoys learning about the golf swing. I've learned a lot on these GolfWRX message boards.

Watching some videos of Hogan recently I noticed how his right leg (knee) seems to straighten slightly in the backswing as his right hip turns freely rearward. It also looks like the right hip subsequently goes slightly higher but I'm not sure if this might just be an optical illusion. I noticed that this is very different from what I have always tried to do in maintaining a somewhat constant knee flex to coil against a stable lower body with minimal hip turn. This move is alleged to build up torque and provide for a powerful swing.

Today I experimented (trying to visualize Hogan) with letting my right leg (knee) straighten slightly (but not locked out) and letting my right hip rotate more freely. On the downswing I was rotating aggressively to my left side with a slight squatting motion to regain the knee flex in my right leg. It was a eureka moment; I never hit so many solid shots (really compressing the ball) in a row without any mishits! It seemed like it also automatically eliminated lateral movement off of the ball on my backswing. I also tried it with different stances from narrow to wide. In all cases it worked incredibly well at producing solid strikes.

I realize that without video it's tough, but based on what I have described, I would appreciate comments. Am I onto something here or just another short term band-aid?
[/quote]


Absolutely not a band-aid. For an excellent modern day example, take a look at the leg and hip action of Bubba Watson. IMO, the key is to make sure the leg does not straighten to the point that the knee has no flex, and that the weight pressure is maintained on the inside of the arch of the right foot. This will allow one to maintain leverage. If the weight gets to the outside of the right foot, the leverage is lost.

[moehogan]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1291214057' post='2817761']
This is Hogan forum, so like to insert/connect to hogan-I see hogan doing the right hip going back and to centerline (middle of pelvis/lower spine), so because right foot don't move and centerline don't sway to right, right leg will tilting to target and little straighten (unless your right leg become longer like plastic-man hehehe). And bcoz hogan sets weight on left foot earl in late/end of bs, the tilting and straightening looks more like that/obvious.

Look at ted williams swing (baseball), he do that also. Hogan learned from ted? Sam snead also, he was interviewed and he said that. So this is bs.

Now a question-what do ted williams do in ds and impact zone? The answer is hogan too.. Look at ted at youtube, how he ds and impact?
[/quote]
Radial acceleration.