MacGregor Special Order

[hultis]

How "special" are they

Hi, everybody. My first real post here. Now, I have a set of MacGregor Tourney Custom "The 985" with a serial number on the hosel that starts with SO. As far as I've read this indicates that the club was some kind of special order. But in what way are these clubs special? I'm not thinking about my set of clubs but more general. Was it possible for anyone to order special grinds, finishes etc from MacGregor back in the days?

BTW, this forum is the best I've ever come across!


/Christian

[TimV]

[ssp]

I am curious about seeing these clubs as well. I played a set for about 10 years.

[freddiec]

I believe the 985s were from the late 1970s. They had a custom department and you could custom order clubs, grinds, ect.

[ssp]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1315932823' post='3561432']
I believe the 985s were from the late 1970s. They had a custom department and you could custom order clubs, grinds, ect.
[/quote]

I got mine in 1979 as a High School graduation gift. I still have a few of the clubs floating around. I had 2 of them break with stress fractures in the hosel.

[hultis]

Here you are! No pic of the ferrule with the serial number, but I can get one.

/Christian

[hultis]

Here's a pic of the three iron.

/Christian

[hultis]

Probably the wrong thread, but I'll post some pics of my other clubs too. Mizuno MP33, MacGregor VIP Tour CB92, Wilson Staff and my persimmon gamer.

/Christian

[astamm8]

I really love those CB92s. To me that's what a cavity back should look like.

Can you post a face picture of the 985? Does it have the vertical lines to the sides of the scoring lines?

Fred is right, the 985 was long available as a custom club, and in 1979 I'm pretty sure that's what they'd be because they weren't a standard retail option at the time. But, I'm thinking that some are more custom than others. Most of them that I've seen are pretty standard and are likely custom in that they just weren't on sale at the store. But, MacGregor did have the best custom grind program, so there may be sets out there that were custom ground to the customer's specs. Those would be very special, to me anyway.

[ssp]

We need more pictures of the 985's .... the 3 iron pic looks like they are in great shape. Include face pics please.

[ssp]

[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1315937649' post='3561671']
[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1315932823' post='3561432']
I believe the 985s were from the late 1970s. They had a custom department and you could custom order clubs, grinds, ect.
[/quote]

I got mine in 1979 as a High School graduation gift. I still have a few of the clubs floating around. I had 2 of them break with stress fractures in the hosel.
[/quote]

I am going to check mine for serial numbers tonight. My pro was sponsored by Macgregor and he stocked retail sets. I do not believe they were special order that I know of. It is also possible my set was a left over 1978 set.

[Nspiel58]

really nice sticks! I'm envious. Thanks for sharing.

[hultis]

Thank's guys. I'll take some more pics tonight. I really like my 985's and all the clubs are in great shape. At first I was a bit worried about the reversed muscleback, but they really are excellent to play.

About the CB92's. Well, not really a classic blade, but still a wonderful club that has all the nice features - satin finish, square toe and so on.

/Christian

[hultis]

Okay guys, more pictures for you. It's still the 3 iron. My 985 set is 2-SW and all clubs are in the same condition. TT Dynamic Stiff shafts, not original grips though they were as dry as I don't know what.

/Christan

[ssp]

My serial numbers are 'os1239w' ... I think last letter is 'w'.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1315943708' post='3561915']
We need more pictures of the 985's .... the 3 iron pic looks like they are in great shape. Include face pics please.
[/quote]


just HEAVEN.

[astamm8]

I'm pretty shocked as I was sure that those would have the vertical lines that sort of frame the scoring lines (a look I don't like at all), like this set:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160519034151?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_852

I don't think I've seen anything of this vintage without them, to be honest. And the older ones don't typically have a plain face either, it's often copper or ceramic.

I looked in my Kaplan Macgregor catalog and that muscle design appears at that time (about 78-80). It talks about their being custom and hints at custom grinding (each club is hand ground, swingweighted, etc.), but they definitely weren't marketing personal custom grinding at that time. Custom grinding might have still been available (to the average customer, it was always available to some, I'm sure); but I don't know. I've never really seen any clubs of that vintage with some sort of noticeable different grind. They all look like yours with a pretty flat sole and straight leading edge. A while later, Macgregor started to advertise personalized custom grinding (toes shapes, leading edges chosen by the player, etc.) that was available to a number of heads, and the reverse muscle 985 head was one. But, that was much later, and the stamping/logoing at that time was different.

So, I'm not sure what to think. They're gorgeous though, and I love the toe shape!

[majic]

The 985 shape is a great shape and was made by MacGregor for YEARS. I grew up playing at a course in Northern ohio and the Professional every year went down and ordered "custom" MacGregor irons and woods. This was from the 50's and through the 60's when he retired. My brother ordered a set in the late 50's or early 60's and they are beautiful. I played them in the 70's. The custom shop would do special grinds on these and the Pro always liked what they called the "Douglas" sole. this sole is very smooth and rounded. Not square like jack played. I will try to find the set and post some pictures. In the early 80's when Clay Long was at MacGregor I went to the Albany Georgia factory and had a set of irons ground. When i mentioned the douglas sole the head of the iron shop knew what i was talking about. i will take pictures of these as well.
The 985 design originated in Scotland in the late 20's and were first made in hickory. F.H. Ayers made them. I have only seen a few of the irons but a friend plays with them.
MacGregor made some beautiful irons. Tad Moore

[astamm8]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1316047261' post='3564914']
The 985 shape is a great shape and was made by MacGregor for YEARS. I grew up playing at a course in Northern ohio and the Professional every year went down and ordered "custom" MacGregor irons and woods. This was from the 50's and through the 60's when he retired. My brother ordered a set in the late 50's or early 60's and they are beautiful. I played them in the 70's. The custom shop would do special grinds on these and the Pro always liked what they called the "Douglas" sole. this sole is very smooth and rounded. Not square like jack played. I will try to find the set and post some pictures. In the early 80's when Clay Long was at MacGregor I went to the Albany Georgia factory and had a set of irons ground. When i mentioned the douglas sole the head of the iron shop knew what i was talking about. i will take pictures of these as well.
The 985 design originated in Scotland in the late 20's and were first made in hickory. F.H. Ayers made them. I have only seen a few of the irons but a friend plays with them.
MacGregor made some beautiful irons. Tad Moore
[/quote]

Great story Tad; I can't wait to see the pictures. Thanks for participating here, you have a wealth of knowledge, and it's appreciated!

[size=2]
So, in the early 80s when you went there could I have just called MacGregor and set an appointment (or gone through my Macgregor sponsored Golf Pro) and gone to Albany for the full treatment? Or was it more for Pros and others with a special connection?[/size]

[majic]

In the early days i think it was primarily there for the Club Pro's. In the 80's i had connections so I really don't know but i would have thought if the Professional at your club had called you could have done what i did. Maybe not completely as i was right back in the shop area. The man in charge of the grinding was i think Art Emerson and he had been there for years and i think trained Don White. I remember showing him a wedge i had used for years and he went to an area of forgings and pulled a raw head out and on a large lead pad he did magic to the forging before he ever started to drill the hosel or grind it. WOW!!!!!!! I learned a lot watching him.
pictures will get taken tomorrow. Tad

[rex235]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1316047261' post='3564914']
The 985 shape is a great shape and was made by MacGregor for YEARS. I grew up playing at a course in Northern ohio and the Professional every year went down and ordered "custom" MacGregor irons and woods. This was from the 50's and through the 60's when he retired. My brother ordered a set in the late 50's or early 60's and they are beautiful. I played them in the 70's. The custom shop would do special grinds on these and the Pro always liked what they called the "Douglas" sole. this sole is very smooth and rounded. Not square like jack played. I will try to find the set and post some pictures. In the early 80's when Clay Long was at MacGregor I went to the Albany Georgia factory and had a set of irons ground. When i mentioned the douglas sole the head of the iron shop knew what i was talking about. i will take pictures of these as well.
The 985 design originated in Scotland in the late 20's and were first made in hickory. F.H. Ayers made them. I have only seen a few of the irons but a friend plays with them.
MacGregor made some beautiful irons. Tad Moore
[/quote]

Tad-
Couldn't agree more-
MacGregor made some beautiful [b][i]RH[/i][/b] irons.
Wished their 985 LH version looked this good...
On the plus side, there aren't very many LH MacGregor Tourney Colokroms from 1955 with a "TP" stamp like this[attachment=858998:100_9350.JPG]....

[hultis]

Thanks for the feedback everybody. It's simply amazing that there are so many different MacGregor club models floating around out there. I guess I would need a separate garage if I were to buy all the beautiful vintage sets that come in my way. However, it's a true joy to bring a classic set to a great course and see the surprise in people's faces when you tell them your clubs are 30, 40 or even 50 years old. Especially if you beat the heck out of your playing partners.

Just a shame that autumn is coming to Sweden as we speak.


/Christian

[ssp]

[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1316013390' post='3563668']
My serial numbers are 'os1239w' ... I think last letter is 'w'.
[/quote]

MIne have the vertical lines.

[astamm8]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1316054700' post='3565229']
In the early days i think it was primarily there for the Club Pro's. In the 80's i had connections so I really don't know but i would have thought if the Professional at your club had called you could have done what i did. Maybe not completely as i was right back in the shop area. The man in charge of the grinding was i think Art Emerson and he had been there for years and i think trained Don White. I remember showing him a wedge i had used for years and he went to an area of forgings and pulled a raw head out and on a large lead pad he did magic to the forging before he ever started to drill the hosel or grind it. WOW!!!!!!! I learned a lot watching him.
pictures will get taken tomorrow. Tad
[/quote]

Art Emerson definitely trained Don White, and Art was a true master. Don does the same thing to wedges right now! It's absolutely amazing to watch him work.The grinding I understand, but the lead pad and mallet to adjust offset etc. is just unreal. I don't there's anybody else out there doing that.

[majic]

OK here are the pictures i told you about. these were made when Tommy Armour was still a brand of MacGregors. my brother who was a very good player ordered these through Louis Chiapetta who was out head pro at Sylvania Country Club in Sylvania Ohio. A Willie Park design. Very good. Note the Douglas Sole Grind. Face scoring. I played these for a while myself when i was still in Ohio. These were from the MacGregor custom shop in Cincinnati, Ohio. The other iron head is from the custom set I had made in Albany Georia and i always liked the Winnged logo so i had them marked with that. Tad

[astamm8]

I think the 985s might be custom grinds. The Kaplan catalog has "the 985" for 1978 with the vertical lines. Then in 1980, we see the first mention of the custom grinding program with four available heads, one of which is the 985. The ad says that all models use the "new GR forging." I have no idea what the GR forging is, but it was apparently new in around '79 and (while it's hard to tell) it looks like it didn't have the vertical lines. Finally, this ad mentions the option of TT Dynamic shafts, which aren't mentioned in '78. All this couple with the SO registration number, and I think maybe they were custom grinds.

Who got them for you? Was he an avid golfer? Did he belong to a private club?

I think they're really beautiful clubs.

[hultis]

If I remember it correclty I bought them on Ebay four or five years ago. Can't remember the seller, but I believe he was only trading them not playing them. All I had to do when I got them was to wash of the dirt and remove some light rust.

Thanks a lot for all the research you've come up with. Really appreciate it.

/Christian

[astamm8]

[quote name='ssp' timestamp='1315937649' post='3561671']
[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1315932823' post='3561432']
I believe the 985s were from the late 1970s. They had a custom department and you could custom order clubs, grinds, ect.
[/quote]

I got mine in 1979 as a High School graduation gift. I still have a few of the clubs floating around. I had 2 of them break with stress fractures in the hosel.
[/quote]

Hultis,


Ah, I see. I read this and thought you had gotten them in 1979, but I see that was another person altogether. Well, I'd say they're a great find. Have you hit them at all? Clubs that age can seem pretty dated (to me the ones with the vertical lines look dated), but those don't. They look very modern, and I'd bet they would play very nicely. I'd love to compare them to other clubs to see how long the hosels are, etc. They may not be that old then. The custom program has up and running until the demise of MacGregor, and those heads were available for most if not all of that time. And, they could have made those heads even if they didn't have them stock. I'd guess that they're from around then, because "the 985" stamping fell out of favor later, and most clubs made in the custom program would probably have featured the 'current' stamping, etc. Also the shafts being Dynamic, not Dynamic Gold would support that. But, of course they did special orders, and I'm sure you could have had a set stamped with anything they had available, so that's no guarantee either.


Can you post a face picture of the 8 iron? I'd love to do a comparison with some similar ones???

I played the early 90s Cobra Norman grind irons recently for a few years that were made by MacGregor and essentially are essentially the same. I became very fascinated in the history of those, which really is pretty interesting. Here's a thread with some information, and I included a couple of pics of Johnny Miller's set from his 63 at Oakmont in '73 (stamped similarly to yours) and a set of earlier earlier ones stamped SS1 that are reverse muscle backs, not the Diamondbacks that appear in the catalogs. Reverse muscle backs have a long and interesting history!


http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/325961-maccobra-greg-norman-blades/page__hl__cobra+norman

[attachment=861084:JohnnyMiller.jpg]
[attachment=861085:SS1.1.jpg]

[attachment=861086:SS1.2.jpg]

[hultis]

Yes Sir, I've hit them quite a lot and I must say they are very playable. The most notable difference from modern clubs is the weak lofts. I would say the 8 iron would compare to a 9 iron of today. Nothing unigue for old clubs, but you have to think twice when you choose the club. On the flip side, the 2 iron is very easy to play! The hosel is definitely longer than on modern clubs, so are the ferruls. Funny that you should mention the Cobra's. I've always wanted to own a set of the Cobra Greg Norman with the 985 muscle back. Beautiful clubs.

Took some new pictures, not the best quality though.

On one of the pics you can see a comparison with a Mizuno MP33. All the pictured clubs are 8 irons.

/Christian

[tembolo1284]