Is EVERY putt makeable?

[1969EType]

Obviously, for psychological purposes, the answer is yes. However, is reality also perception in this case? Thoughts?

[Thrillhouse]

outside of 20 feet honestly i am just trying to lag it to tap in distance, if it falls in it is a bonus. if it is within 20 feet i am often trying to make it, but obviously i play the 12 foot downhill slider that will run 15 feet by if i "have a go" much more conservatively than a 12 footer straight uphill that i can take a run at. putting is more of a chess match than people think.

[MtlJeff]

in a literal sense, every putt is makeable unless you lack the required strength to get the ball to the hole or unless there is a medieval moat running through the green. Although i'll need a ruling on the second one, because if you chip the ball in from on the green that may count as a putt. So if you ever run across this situation in feudal england it's up for debate i guess

[Vinny Nguyen]

I'm an agressive golfer so to me I believe every shot and putt is makable. No matter the situation I try to attack. Unless there's a literal wall in front of me to where I can't advance the ball I'll go for the green or try to sink that putt.

[jj9000]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1318379478' post='3659999']
in a literal sense, every putt is makeable unless you lack the required strength to get the ball to the hole or unless there is a medieval moat running through the green. Although i'll need a ruling on the second one, because if you chip the ball in from on the green that may count as a putt. So if you ever run across this situation in feudal england it's up for debate i guess
[/quote]

A ruling on the second situation is directly related to the airspeed velocity of either an African or European swallow.

[Vinny Nguyen]

lol

[rafal]

It's conceivable that on a highly sloped green there's a putt from some point A to point B where the ball might accelerate too much to fall...but greenkeepers should avoid placement B if that's the case.

[OpusX20]

I don't think every putt is makeable. With a multi-tiered green and you are above the hole, it's pretty easy to get a putt that even hit at the minimum speed will pick up so much velocity by the time it reaches the hole there is no way it could go in. I am sure there are some putts on Old MacDonald (Bandon) that could absolutely not be made.

[SpinMill75]

No....they're not all makeable IMO.

I'm sure there is an equation that would prove it, but there are so many variables that I just don't think its possible every putt is going to go in.

[beast400]

ask bryce molder about the putt on 17 at cordevalle

[BetweenTheEars]

You would have to know the exact movement of each ball turn along the path.

Basically, it's impossible. Even putting a ball the correct speed on the correct line doesn't ensure it will drop due to the way the dimples on the ball interact with bumps on the surface of the green.

[BNich0622]

[quote name='OpusX20' timestamp='1318381896' post='3660209']
I don't think every putt is makeable. With a multi-tiered green and you are above the hole, it's pretty easy to get a putt that even hit at the minimum speed will pick up so much velocity by the time it reaches the hole there is no way it could go in. I am sure there are some putts on Old MacDonald (Bandon) that could absolutely not be made.
[/quote]

There is a 3 tiered green at the country club where I work, where it is impossible to hole a putt from the back right tier on the front bottom tier.

[attachment=880579:ShuttleMeadowCountryClub.jpg]


This picture shoes the 18th green to which I am referring to. Doesn't show the true severity of the slope. but trust me. The upper tier is at least 4-5 higher than where the red flag is that you see.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1318379427' post='3659991']
outside of 20 feet honestly i am just trying to lag it to tap in distance, if it falls in it is a bonus. if it is within 20 feet i am often trying to make it, but obviously i play the 12 foot downhill slider that will run 15 feet by if i "have a go" much more conservatively than a 12 footer straight uphill that i can take a run at. putting is more of a chess match than people think.
[/quote]

I like the chess match comment.

So is the question " should I approach every putt like it's makeable or is the OP asking about the laws of physics.

If you "go" for every putt, I guarantee you're not a good putter......

[Inflection Point]

No, they are not all makeable. Not only are some putts traveling too fast for the hole to capture the ball but there are cases that curvature in the green can prevent a ball from rolling in certain areas due to speed and slope changes.

Some are absolutely unmakeable.

[jj9000]

[quote name='Inflection Point' timestamp='1318389694' post='3661025']
No, they are not all makeable. Not only are some putts traveling too fast for the hole to capture the ball but there are cases that curvature in the green can prevent a ball from rolling in certain areas due to speed and slope changes.

Some are absolutely unmakeable.
[/quote]


If you can physically hit the ball with your putter hard enough to get from point A to point B the ball has a [u]chance[/u] to go in the hole.

Now, that's not to say that the probability of the ball going in is high...quite the opposite.

I'm simply suggesting that if you can get the ball to the hole, statistically, it's not impossible.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

No, I've been on some weird shaped greens that you couldn't putt anywhere close to the hole, just try to leave it where you might make the next one. I've also been on some scramble teams where no one could make a putt due to the line/speed issue, even when everyone tried several times, too much speed and no break, less speed and too much break.

[honketyhank]

What about the putt you have to send back through the fringe to get it anywhere close to the hole? Sure, it is statistically makeable. But me? I am trying to get it close (and if it drops in, I'll just laugh).

Actually, the same goes for a 50 footer with or without any fringe interference. If they don't go in, so what? Close is good. If they do go in, well, I just might then play golf again the next day with the same putter.

[PaddyK]

I think we are confusing probability with possibility. All putts are makeable, ide say it's kind of akin to monkeys and typewriters.

[AntLockyer]

All makeable IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYeLUxymD0M

[dlam]

Most putts are makeable in casual settings
In tournament conditions I seen some weird hole placement where the putt wasn't makeable and source of compliants.

There was one time the hole was cut just in the edge of a ridge.
I had a straight uphill putt to the ridge and the hole was just few inches past the top tier of the ridge
It was impossiible or very difficult to have the put the right delivery speed to be fast enough it to make the top tier and slow enough to drop in in the hole.

[Pickdaddy16]

Every putt is theoretically makable, but if it's outside 25 feet I'm thinking more about speed and 2-putting. I always feel there is no reason to ever 3 -putt. That attitude helps me on the green.

[mikpga]

Hell YES!

[oneunderbogey]

Every putt, should be make able, but it is very possible to put a cup in a spot where a putt is impossible to make from a certain spot on the green.

The easiest example is that you have a straight downhill put on a severe slope. Where even if the ball starts from rest it will be going to fast to go in by the time it reaches the hole. A hole should never be in this spot, but I am sure it has been done.

[pingB]

[quote name='PaddyK' timestamp='1318404528' post='3661601']
I think we are confusing probability with possibility. All putts are makeable, ide say it's kind of akin to monkeys and typewriters.
[/quote]

this..


every single put is makeable.. you wouldn't be putting if there was a tree in front of you or if you had to bounce it off of 3 things to get in the hole. If you are stepping up to the ball with a putter it is POSSIBLE that the ball will go in. Probability falls off a cliff outside of 15 feet, but that doesn't mean the putt isn't makeable..

[oneunderbogey]

[quote name='pingB' timestamp='1318425995' post='3662103']
[quote name='PaddyK' timestamp='1318404528' post='3661601']
I think we are confusing probability with possibility. All putts are makeable, ide say it's kind of akin to monkeys and typewriters.
[/quote]

this..


every single put is makeable.. you wouldn't be putting if there was a tree in front of you or if you had to bounce it off of 3 things to get in the hole. If you are stepping up to the ball with a putter it is POSSIBLE that the ball will go in. Probability falls off a cliff outside of 15 feet, but that doesn't mean the putt isn't makeable..
[/quote]

This isn't true sorry. 99+% of putts are makeable but physically some cannot be made.

[HitEmTrue]

Of course that putt is makeable. There are putts that have drop-offs that are so SEVERE that there is no (reasonable) chance that the putt can be made. Above a certain speed, a ball will not fall in the hole, unless a fluke occurs.


[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1318407315' post='3661627']
All makeable IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYeLUxymD0M
[/quote]

[PaddyK]

[quote name='oneunderbogey' timestamp='1318426136' post='3662105']
[quote name='pingB' timestamp='1318425995' post='3662103']
[quote name='PaddyK' timestamp='1318404528' post='3661601']
I think we are confusing probability with possibility. All putts are makeable, ide say it's kind of akin to monkeys and typewriters.
[/quote]

this..


every single put is makeable.. you wouldn't be putting if there was a tree in front of you or if you had to bounce it off of 3 things to get in the hole. If you are stepping up to the ball with a putter it is POSSIBLE that the ball will go in. Probability falls off a cliff outside of 15 feet, but that doesn't mean the putt isn't makeable..
[/quote]

This isn't true sorry. 99+% of putts are makeable but physically some cannot be made.
[/quote]

I would like you to eleborate on this statement. Offer me some evidence.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='PaddyK' timestamp='1318427864' post='3662225']
I would like you to eleborate on this statement. Offer me some evidence.
[/quote]

Somewhere I have seen numbers on how the hole shrinks as ball speed increases. At a certain point (I don't know how fast), the hole has an effective size of zero.

Would you agree that if you stand 5 feet from the hole...flat putt...and hit it HARD straight at the hole, that it cannot go in?

Oh, these putts that can't be made certainly are few and far between. I've got one green in mind that has a huge tier change running across it. If a ball was set on the top of the hill (the top edge of the tier change) and let go, I think it would be moving too fast to drop into a cup placed close to the bottom of that sharp slope. Unfortunately I don't see myself making the trip back to this course to test my theory.

[PaddyK]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1318428679' post='3662281']
[quote name='PaddyK' timestamp='1318427864' post='3662225']
I would like you to eleborate on this statement. Offer me some evidence.
[/quote]

Somewhere I have seen numbers on how the hole shrinks as ball speed increases. At a certain point (I don't know how fast), the hole has an effective size of zero.

[b]Would you agree that if you stand 5 feet from the hole...flat putt...and hit it HARD straight at the hole, that it cannot go in?[/b]

Oh, these putts that can't be made certainly are few and far between. I've got one green in mind that has a huge tier change running across it. If a ball was set on the top of the hill (the top edge of the tier change) and let go, I think it would be moving too fast to drop into a cup placed close to the bottom of that sharp slope. Unfortunately I don't see myself making the trip back to this course to test my theory.
[/quote]

Ide agree it's not very likely, but not impossible.

I would whole heartedly agree that there are putts so hard that you would probably die before you holed them. That still doesn't make them impossible.

[hoganfan924]

There are certainly some downhill putts that are on such severe slopes that even if hit dead center at the slowest initial speed possible to get to the hole, the ball will skip over the hole, so they are unmakeable. I can think of a few like that over the years. Certainly more at PGA tour events. Then there are the occasional kidney shaped greens where you would literally have to putt through 4" rough to get to the hole.

With those kind of exceptions, I think it's a good idea to approach each putt as makeable. The higher your belief, the more likely you'll make it, IMO.