Looking to sponsor someone to play professional golf

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1327819979' post='4171151']
Interesting...

Definately a little one sided and I believe that regardless of your statements here you really have no intentions of sponsoring anyone but I guess it does make you the flavor of the week here.
[b]What you believe is what you believe but he is somewhat inspired from our other buddy who owns a business and is sponsoring players and he actually seems serious about this when I talk to him, just my two cents.
[/b]
That being said I do have a few questions if you don't mind. I apologize if any of these were answered somewhere previously.
[b]Isaac said I should put my two cents in to what you said so I am doing it. [/b]
If all the criteria can be met, is there an age limit or time span limition on the qualifications ?
[b]doesn't appear to be an age limit. Time span might be a different story.[/b]

Are you willing to put up the 50K plus expenses and potential payouts in an excrow account, verifiable of course, up front prior to my outlaying of any 'testing' costs ?
[b]If you are actually coming up that would probably best be handled by PM. Are you doing this? If you are not that comment is pretty rude.
[/b]Can you provide a USGA recognized handicap? And if so, what percantage of it consists of courses outside of the proposed 'test' course? And I'm sure of course you will provide all the personal details to back up the career you've eluded to in this thread should prior condition be met.
[b]He isn't trying to qualify for his own thing, so he doesn't have to send a resume or handicap index to himself.
[/b]Thought: Should the 'test' not consist of laps of a single test course as a more typical 'tour' scenerio.
[b]Were playing courses with member pins and the tee boxes set up wherever the greenskeeper decided to put them that morning, whether one course or many is played its still not a "tour scenario".[/b]
Will you reveal the proposed courses in advance? Is there stipulations that limit my preparation prior to testing?
[b]He told me he doesn't care, if someone who want's to try this is local they have already played the courses, so do what you want. [/b]
How is the 50K payed out and who decides where and what costs its applied too?
[b]the sponsors decide so the winner doesn't put it all on red or spend it on cheap wine and hookers (it sounds funny but it happens)[/b]
I understand you to say that the average must be 67 or better and still beat your score regardless?
[b]If you shoot 67 four days in a row and isaac shoots 64 four days in a row he will still honour his commitment, but he might be out there rooming with you on the mini tours if he plays that well. If I shoot 64 four days in a row i'm going to quit golf while I am ahead. [/b]
Are you willing to match the grand per stroke you expect from myself , should I beat you , outside of any sponsorship?
[b]$50,000 isn't generous enough?[/b]

Thank you for your time.
[b]You are sort of welcome[/b]
[/quote]

[hef63303]

The $50k is not generous. It is an investment, with expectations of gain, not a gift.

[gatorfan]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1327789202' post='4168765']
[quote name='gatorfan' timestamp='1327788366' post='4168697']
even if someone did take you up and met all your requirements and made it to a tour event. if they made the cut at some event and got invited to the next event or got sponsored by a company, you would be paid off so fast it would make your head spin. players don't want a backer following them around. I know guys that have done this, when they make money, their backers are gone and they do not get a say anymore.
[/quote]

Ever heard of a legal contract? All of these things are worked out in great detail. The legal contract in my joint ventures were usually 10 pages long with all kinds of clauses.

All parties must agree and then sign on the dotted line.
[/quote]

Most guys that are able to play normally go work at a club and they end up selling shares to member and the members pay for them. That is more appealing than you owning them with a contract. If they don't work at a club, they are normally able to get other ways of financial help. And i do know what a legal contract is, since i go to school for it.

[Bubb]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1327818049' post='4171077']
[quote name='Bubb' timestamp='1327815586' post='4170981']
I have to believe that anyone confident enough that they could shoot -20 (at worst) over four days on a 7000 yard course that they've never seen before will have access to more attractive options than the one you present. It seems that you are wanting to demonstrate to aspiring pros that they aren't really as good as they think they are so you set up this straw man argument to tear it down and thus "prove" your point. For the most part, I'm sure that you're right about most aspiring pros overestimating their ability to compete on the professional level, but I do remember David Feherety saying that he turned pro as a 5-handicap (not a +5). He was a Ryder Cupper.

I'm not doubting your sincerity to follow through, but anyone who flies to Calgary under the initial terms you proposed should have his head examined. If you're that hard-up for $50k, you don't have $3500 to risk on a whim.
[/quote]


I in no way ever said that a guy like David Feherety at 19 couldn't eventually make it in golf. I simply said that I'm not looking for that kind of player. Bring me a guy like David Feherety at 26 and we have a different situation.

What initially started this whole idea was a conversation I had with Thrillhouse . Some players have the idea that there are people out there that will just "simply sponsor them" for no apparent reason. You want to know how to get sponsors in a tough economic time and you don't have a billionaire God father to call up? Demonstrate that you have the game to make a sponsor a return on their money. Simple as that. Prove that you can play. I don't care if you think you have potential, I want to see that potential demonstrated. Too much to ask? Not to me.


You'd be surprised how few options there might be out there. When my buddy contacted Brian Kontac to set up a sponsorship this winter, he was almost in tears. Brian didn't really have the means to play golf this winter, even though he is one of the all time leading money winners on the gateway tour. He's still got a ton of game and was absolutely thrilled to have someone help him out.

Times are hard as far as the minor leagues are concerned. To a guy with a lot of game, what I'm proposing is simply one entry fee plus expenses to have a chance to win $50.000. If you fail you go home, just like any other week that you might have missed a cut. Why is a few thousand so ridiculous? I've spent $2000 on an event many, many times and missed the cut and made nothing.

If you played a full field event with 150 players, in order to win, you'd have to shoot at least 20 under on a tournament course. This course will not be set up that way. It will be much easier. If a player really doesn't feel they can shoot 20 under and win an event, they really don't have the skill and confidence necessary to play at the highest level.

The problem that a lot of guys have is that they look at the pay checks of the guys who finished 30th in an event and say:" I can shoot the same score as that guy so I would have made $1500 this week." What they fail to get is that $1500 doesn't cover costs for the week and they would likely only be able to shoot those scores 1 in 5 times on an easier course with no pressure.

Again, my terms are my terms. This isn't a handout, you have to earn it.

I also never said my proposal is attractive. It is what it is though. Please feel free to post any other offers that you can find....
[/quote]

Sorry I'm not better at trimming quotes, but I've tried in the past and it hasn't come out right. Anyway, you say that what you are proposing is one entry fee for the chance at winning $50k. That's not really a fair summation of your proposal, IMO. First, "winning" $50k is really a misnomer since your clear expectation is that the player will pay you back at least $50k and potentially much more, all in the first year.

To me, it looks more like an invite for someone to pay his way to Calgary at the chance to play you, a former mini-tour player and a +2, for $1000 on your home course. Of course if he beats you, he doesn't win $1000, he can only lose $1000 if you beat him. In addition, if he only manages to shoot -4 over the four days, he will owe you an additional $1000. Not exactly a sweet deal.

For argument's sake, let's say all goes well and he shoots -23, which will make your "cut" with a few strokes to spare. Let's also say that he goes on to have a fairly successful year by mini-tour standards and wins $150k. Per the terms of your arrangement, he will be left with $62,500 before taxes. After taxes, he will have less than $50k to go toward the following year, which is less than he started the year with.

If you are genuine in wanting to sponsor a player, I think you will have to modify your arrangement to attract some takers. If your goal is to prove a point when no one takes you up on your offer as initially stated, I don't think your point will have been proven because you purposefully set the terms up to be too severe.

Anyway, I mean no offense and I think this is a very interesting topic. I also am a fan of Brian Kontak. He is from my neck of the woods (Northwest Ohio) and I remember playing in amateur tournaments with him in the field. I remember one particular time he was medalist with a 64. I also met him at a pro tournament in 2010 and found him to be a really nice guy. I rooted for him on the Big Break.

Good luck with your endeavor. I sincerely hope someone takes you up on it so I can read about the results.

[CHARGERS]

[quote name='TKing' timestamp='1327760519' post='4166695']
This would make a better reality show than Pipe Dream.
[/quote]
this would make for a great show, big break is a little played

[bNeill]

What happens if a bunch of struggling Nationwide guys show up and 5 go 20+ deep?

I'm starting to think the conditions aren't so ridiculous after all..

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='hef63303' timestamp='1327844201' post='4172113']
The $50k is not generous. It is an investment, with expectations of gain, not a gift.
[/quote]

its pretty generous if you don't have someone else willing to float you 50K, especially considering that if you don't make 50K in the following year you don't have to pay him back.

Its a whole lot more generous than I would be willing to be, you don't see me telling people i'll help them come up with 50 grand to go play golf.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='Bubb' timestamp='1327984278' post='4182859']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1327818049' post='4171077']
[quote name='Bubb' timestamp='1327815586' post='4170981']
I have to believe that anyone confident enough that they could shoot -20 (at worst) over four days on a 7000 yard course that they've never seen before will have access to more attractive options than the one you present. It seems that you are wanting to demonstrate to aspiring pros that they aren't really as good as they think they are so you set up this straw man argument to tear it down and thus "prove" your point. For the most part, I'm sure that you're right about most aspiring pros overestimating their ability to compete on the professional level, but I do remember David Feherety saying that he turned pro as a 5-handicap (not a +5). He was a Ryder Cupper.

I'm not doubting your sincerity to follow through, but anyone who flies to Calgary under the initial terms you proposed should have his head examined. If you're that hard-up for $50k, you don't have $3500 to risk on a whim.
[/quote]


I in no way ever said that a guy like David Feherety at 19 couldn't eventually make it in golf. I simply said that I'm not looking for that kind of player. Bring me a guy like David Feherety at 26 and we have a different situation.

What initially started this whole idea was a conversation I had with Thrillhouse . Some players have the idea that there are people out there that will just "simply sponsor them" for no apparent reason. You want to know how to get sponsors in a tough economic time and you don't have a billionaire God father to call up? Demonstrate that you have the game to make a sponsor a return on their money. Simple as that. Prove that you can play. I don't care if you think you have potential, I want to see that potential demonstrated. Too much to ask? Not to me.


You'd be surprised how few options there might be out there. When my buddy contacted Brian Kontac to set up a sponsorship this winter, he was almost in tears. Brian didn't really have the means to play golf this winter, even though he is one of the all time leading money winners on the gateway tour. He's still got a ton of game and was absolutely thrilled to have someone help him out.

Times are hard as far as the minor leagues are concerned. To a guy with a lot of game, what I'm proposing is simply one entry fee plus expenses to have a chance to win $50.000. If you fail you go home, just like any other week that you might have missed a cut. Why is a few thousand so ridiculous? I've spent $2000 on an event many, many times and missed the cut and made nothing.

If you played a full field event with 150 players, in order to win, you'd have to shoot at least 20 under on a tournament course. This course will not be set up that way. It will be much easier. If a player really doesn't feel they can shoot 20 under and win an event, they really don't have the skill and confidence necessary to play at the highest level.

The problem that a lot of guys have is that they look at the pay checks of the guys who finished 30th in an event and say:" I can shoot the same score as that guy so I would have made $1500 this week." What they fail to get is that $1500 doesn't cover costs for the week and they would likely only be able to shoot those scores 1 in 5 times on an easier course with no pressure.

Again, my terms are my terms. This isn't a handout, you have to earn it.

I also never said my proposal is attractive. It is what it is though. Please feel free to post any other offers that you can find....
[/quote]

Sorry I'm not better at trimming quotes, but I've tried in the past and it hasn't come out right. Anyway, you say that what you are proposing is one entry fee for the chance at winning $50k. That's not really a fair summation of your proposal, IMO. First, "winning" $50k is really a misnomer since your clear expectation is that the player will pay you back at least $50k and potentially much more, all in the first year.

[b]To me, it looks more like an invite for someone to pay his way to Calgary at the chance to play you, a former mini-tour player and a +2, for $1000 on your home course. Of course if he beats you, he doesn't win $1000, he can only lose $1000 if you beat him. In addition, if he only manages to shoot -4 over the four days, he will owe you an additional $1000. Not exactly a sweet deal.
[/b]
For argument's sake, let's say all goes well and he shoots -23, which will make your "cut" with a few strokes to spare. Let's also say that he goes on to have a fairly successful year by mini-tour standards and wins $150k. Per the terms of your arrangement, he will be left with $62,500 before taxes. After taxes, he will have less than $50k to go toward the following year, which is less than he started the year with.

If you are genuine in wanting to sponsor a player, I think you will have to modify your arrangement to attract some takers. If your goal is to prove a point when no one takes you up on your offer as initially stated, I don't think your point will have been proven because you purposefully set the terms up to be too severe.

Anyway, I mean no offense and I think this is a very interesting topic. I also am a fan of Brian Kontak. He is from my neck of the woods (Northwest Ohio) and I remember playing in amateur tournaments with him in the field. I remember one particular time he was medalist with a 64. I also met him at a pro tournament in 2010 and found him to be a really nice guy. I rooted for him on the Big Break.

Good luck with your endeavor. I sincerely hope someone takes you up on it so I can read about the results.
[/quote]

Ok, I have no ill intentions here. I would not get any joy in "stealing" $1000 from a plain jane scratch golfer. That's not the point of the whole "must beat me or you owe me " condition. I was trying to make the point that as a potential investor, I would want to be taken seriously and not have my time wasted by some delusional 2 handicap. You guys probably have no idea just how many 0 handicaps I've run across that really believe they are a hair away from being as good as a PGA tour pro. My condition that they must beat me was to make a point, not to make a $1000.

I can easily find big money games without having to invite people to waste their time.

The point of all of this is that an average player is not going to find someone willing to throw money at them for no reason. If the truth really be told, If I actually was contacted by a player that I really felt could meet the conditions I set, I would encourage him to make a go of it on his own. If I could meet my own conditions, I wouldn't take them! The reality of pro golf is that it's a losing venture for both the player and the sponsor UNLESS THE PLAYERS ABILITY IS SO FAR BEYOND WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK IS GOOD ENOUGH that there would be no question that he could make it on his own.

Coming out of college, do you think Ricky Fowler needed to raise $300,000 to "get started?" I can't tell you how many times I've heard players say if they could just have $75000 for 4 years, they could make it on tour. It's a pile of crap! If you can really play, go play! Go earn money playing to keep playing!

$50,000 is a huge amount of money for a great player. If he is in such financial destitution that he can't get started with way less than that on his own, why should he not have to pay back all of that money?

[Nick-A]

After reading the whole thread, I'd like to say, nice of you to present this opportunity, although alot of people are bashing your proposal I think you've got it right.

If I would be good enough I would take you on, but I'm far from it.
Essentially somebody is getting 50k to play some golf, come-on not a bad deal...
And guys screaming about "yeah but you have to pay him back": If a player would invest 50k in his own game to be able to play on tour (assuming that's their dream) they'd also have to make 50k to break even.
SO this guy who takes the deal is running no risk, If it turns out he sucks and makes less than 50k he hasn't lost any money although his sponsor does... Again the deal is good, and conditions are just realistic. Business is business....You do everything to minimize to a max the risk of losing your money....

And finally if you have several course records, regularly play below 70, why should you fear going out there and losing money. How can you go to a tournament with that same attitude and win....

I hope you find someone.

[fairways4life]

Very interesting thread. Just a question about the economics of it all....

Let's say someone passed the "tryout" and went out on tour with the 50k. They struggled on tour and only made 10k in winnings. So you are essentially out 40k.

A couple posters mentioned this would be a tax deduction. How does that kind of deduction work exactly? How much of that 40k would you actually lose in the end?

In other words, what is the real risk if your guy only makes 10k back?

(Just an honest question from someone with no expertise on that kind of deduction and such)

[MJP22]

[quote name='fairways4life' timestamp='1328023410' post='4184513']
Very interesting thread. Just a question about the economics of it all....

Let's say someone passed the "tryout" and went out on tour with the 50k. They struggled on tour and only made 10k in winnings. So you are essentially out 40k.

A couple posters mentioned this would be a tax deduction. How does that kind of deduction work exactly? How much of that 40k would you actually lose in the end?

In other words, what is the real risk if your guy only makes 10k back?

(Just an honest question from someone with no expertise on that kind of deduction and such)
[/quote]

Without going into too much if this is really a tax deductible loss, a tax deduction is not $ that you can deduct from your tax bill, but $ that can be used to offset your total income that you are taxed on.

[fairways4life]

[quote name='MJP22' timestamp='1328025877' post='4184703']
[quote name='fairways4life' timestamp='1328023410' post='4184513']
Very interesting thread. Just a question about the economics of it all....

Let's say someone passed the "tryout" and went out on tour with the 50k. They struggled on tour and only made 10k in winnings. So you are essentially out 40k.

A couple posters mentioned this would be a tax deduction. How does that kind of deduction work exactly? How much of that 40k would you actually lose in the end?

In other words, what is the real risk if your guy only makes 10k back?

(Just an honest question from someone with no expertise on that kind of deduction and such)
[/quote]

Without going into too much if this is really a tax deductible loss, a tax deduction is not $ that you can deduct from your tax bill, but $ that can be used to offset your total income that you are taxed on.
[/quote]


Gotcha. So basically just like any other deduction? (didn't know if an investment like this was a deduction with some sort of special circumstances) So it sounds like we're still talking about a considerable risk then.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='fairways4life' timestamp='1328023410' post='4184513']
Very interesting thread. Just a question about the economics of it all....

Let's say someone passed the "tryout" and went out on tour with the 50k. They struggled on tour and only made 10k in winnings. So you are essentially out 40k.

A couple posters mentioned this would be a tax deduction. How does that kind of deduction work exactly? How much of that 40k would you actually lose in the end?

In other words, what is the real risk if your guy only makes 10k back?

(Just an honest question from someone with no expertise on that kind of deduction and such)
[/quote]

The 40k loss is written off against a much higher income earned elsewhere. How much of the actual 40k loss is realized, depends on gross income, other tax write offs, and overall tax bracket. The idea of writing off 40k is, hopefully, it contributes towards moving the investor into the next lower tax bracket.

In actuality, anyone considering such an investment, in hopes, had better be able not notice loosing 50k; it's high risk investment, not unlike buying a block of high risk stock.

[fairways4life]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1328026954' post='4184799']
[quote name='fairways4life' timestamp='1328023410' post='4184513']
Very interesting thread. Just a question about the economics of it all....

Let's say someone passed the "tryout" and went out on tour with the 50k. They struggled on tour and only made 10k in winnings. So you are essentially out 40k.

A couple posters mentioned this would be a tax deduction. How does that kind of deduction work exactly? How much of that 40k would you actually lose in the end?

In other words, what is the real risk if your guy only makes 10k back?

(Just an honest question from someone with no expertise on that kind of deduction and such)
[/quote]

The 40k loss is written off against a much higher income earned elsewhere. How much of the actual 40k loss is realized, depends on gross income, other tax write offs, and overall tax bracket. The idea of writing off 40k is, hopefully, it contributes towards moving the investor into the next lower tax bracket.

In actuality, anyone considering such an investment, in hopes, had better be able not notice loosing 50k; it's high risk investment, not unlike buying a block of high risk stock.
[/quote]


I understand now. Thanks for explaining that. (I was never interested in doing this myself, just wondered about it out of curiosity. If I had that kind of dough it might be fun though!)

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='gatorfan' timestamp='1327845488' post='4172191']
Most guys that are able to play normally go work at a club and they end up selling shares to member and the members pay for them. That is more appealing than you owning them with a contract. If they don't work at a club, they are normally able to get other ways of financial help. And i do know what a legal contract is, since i go to school for it.
[/quote]

You're right about selling shares. I've seen that, and been part of one. But you're wrong stating "most guys" work at clubs. That's not common, nor are funding avenues for aspiring good golfers, especially in today's economic times. The most common way is one or two investors put up "x" amount of dollars. Most golfers, good or otherwise, are not closely acquainted with people wealthy enough to put up 50k without concern for loosing it either. Most pvt golf club members are NOT wealthy, or have 50k to invest, possibly lose, and comfortable taking the tax deduction. Those are facts, having been on the board of a high end equity club for many years, and reviewed regional and national club membership stats.
.

[MileHi]

Interesting thread to read and a nice diversion from work this morning, but as pointed out elsewhere, the OP clearly has no plans to actually follow through and sponsor someone, and is more interested in trying to make a point.

Pepperturbo knows how these things actually work, and that they aren't done by people to whom 50k means much. They're done by multimillionaires who realize it's a long shot but aren't going to miss the money, enjoy following their player(s) because they love golf, and know it's almost surely going to end up a tax writeoff. I'm sure the OP is well off, but 50k means a bit more to him (and most all of us) than the guys who do sponsor players. Also I'm sure they find good players to sponsor, but don't have absurd requirements like going 20 deep on a course they've never played.

It would make for a good TV show though.

[teeituphigh]

Isaac/Thrillhouse.....Im just a Kiwi Pro coming to Canada for May-Sept to work in Yellowknife at the golf course there....If Canadians are half as good value as you guys I will be in for a good time!

Isaac, What your doing is great. I only wish I had of stuck with my game instead of waving the white flag and selling coke and mars bars now with the odd lesson thrown in.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='MileHi' timestamp='1328031842' post='4185347']
Interesting thread to read and a nice diversion from work this morning, but as pointed out elsewhere, the OP clearly has no plans to actually follow through and sponsor someone, and is more interested in trying to make a point.

Pepperturbo knows how these things actually work, and that they aren't done by people to whom 50k means much. They're done by multimillionaires who realize it's a long shot but aren't going to miss the money, enjoy following their player(s) because they love golf, and know it's almost surely going to end up a tax writeoff. I'm sure the OP is well off, but 50k means a bit more to him (and most all of us) than the guys who do sponsor players. Also I'm sure they find good players to sponsor, but don't have absurd requirements like going 20 deep on a course they've never played.

It would make for a good TV show though.
[/quote]

again, I said that I would be willing to raise the money from other sources and put between 10 and 20 grand of my own money. I could personally afford only that much. Like you said , $50000 is a huge amount for the average small business owner but you're incorrect that only multimillionaires would do this sort of thing.

When I was playing, I set up a joint venture that sold shares for either $500 or $1000 each. I was pitching this exclusively to people of modest means. They would often only buy 1 or 2 shares in order to be part of the experience. If I could get one person to put up $5000, it was almost a miracle. The reason is because they likely knew I wasn't good enough and assumed that they would never see the money again!

. Yes a multimillionaire might be willing to pitch the whole amount to someone that he likes or to a guy from a club that has impressed him with either his game or his attitude. Usually though, this sort of thing is a losing venture.

The whole point of this whole thread is HOW GOOD WOULD A PLAYER HAVE TO ACTUALLY BE IN ORDER FOR AN INVESTOR TO ACTUALLY BE WILLING TO PUT UP MONEY IN THE ATTEMPTS OF MAKING A REAL RETURN? Not how could some nice kid raise a couple hundred grand to go and have fun chasing his pipe dream.

For me personally, he would have to be as good as the conditions I posted. Otherwise, i'd be throwing money away.

[Hoot151]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1328039972' post='4186101']

The whole point of this whole thread is HOW GOOD WOULD A PLAYER HAVE TO ACTUALLY BE IN ORDER FOR AN INVESTOR TO ACTUALLY BE WILLING TO PUT UP MONEY IN THE ATTEMPTS OF MAKING A REAL RETURN? Not how could some nice kid raise a couple hundred grand to go and have fun chasing his pipe dream.

For me personally, he would have to be as good as the conditions I posted. Otherwise, i'd be throwing money away.
[/quote]

So he would have to be good enough that there's no risk whatsoever and you are guaranteed to make your money back. Got it. You play the stock market that way?

[isaacbm]

[quote name='Hoot151' timestamp='1328041486' post='4186247']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1328039972' post='4186101']
The whole point of this whole thread is HOW GOOD WOULD A PLAYER HAVE TO ACTUALLY BE IN ORDER FOR AN INVESTOR TO ACTUALLY BE WILLING TO PUT UP MONEY IN THE ATTEMPTS OF MAKING A REAL RETURN? Not how could some nice kid raise a couple hundred grand to go and have fun chasing his pipe dream.

For me personally, he would have to be as good as the conditions I posted. Otherwise, i'd be throwing money away.
[/quote]

So he would have to be good enough that there's no risk whatsoever and you are guaranteed to make your money back. Got it. You play the stock market that way?
[/quote]

Yes and yes. I don't play the stock market like some sort of game. I would only ever invest in companies in which I've done extensive research. Do I lose sometimes? Of course, but I set it up so I can cut my loses very quickly and ensure that I don't lose the whole investment.

If I found a nice young guy that I thought might make a splash on the mini tours but I didn't really believe he currently had what it takes, I might be willing to throw away $1000 for one share of a venture if 50 other members at the club were doing the same. It would be a FAVOR, NOT AN INVESTMENT. I would never put more than $1000 into a favor.

I guess my point is not getting across: Investing in a pro golfer is a waste of time unless the player has the kind of game that my conditions require.

Helping a young guy out, on the other hand, would not be a waste of time because if I did it that way, I would not look at it as an investment. I would consider that simply a favor.

Most of the young guys on this site are confusing an investment with a favor. They say they want investors, but what they really want are handouts. There's nothing wrong with trying to find that situation. I personally am not interested .

What do you think the conditions should be.

Lot's of guys say my conditions are crazy but they don't give an alternative. imagine a young guy came to you.... what would you say to someone that can't shoot in the 60's every round? Really, what should be required?

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1327999660' post='4183537']
earlier in this thread, I broke some of the sites rules concerning solicitation. I'm not allowed to use the site to actively recruit players that I would want to sponsor. If you guys want to continue this discussion in a hypothetical manner only, we can do that. But for the sake of the rules of the site, I can't continue to present this discussion as an actual attempt to find a player in whom to invest....
[/quote]

Solicitation rules are tough, you're not the only one who's messed up this week bro. But in my case she didn't tell me she was a cop. In the movies they always say if you ask them they have to tell you or it's entrapment. Did you know that's not true?

[isaacbm]

[quote name='teeituphigh' timestamp='1328035693' post='4185673']
Isaac/Thrillhouse.....Im just a Kiwi Pro coming to Canada for May-Sept to work in Yellowknife at the golf course there....If Canadians are half as good value as you guys I will be in for a good time!

Isaac, What your doing is great. I only wish I had of stuck with my game instead of waving the white flag and selling coke and mars bars now with the odd lesson thrown in.
[/quote]

You'll have a blast. Should have day light at least 20 hours a day up there.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='Nick-A' timestamp='1328016360' post='4183983']
After reading the whole thread, I'd like to say, nice of you to present this opportunity, although alot of people are bashing your proposal I think you've got it right.

If I would be good enough I would take you on, but I'm far from it.
Essentially somebody is getting 50k to play some golf, come-on not a bad deal...
And guys screaming about "yeah but you have to pay him back": If a player would invest 50k in his own game to be able to play on tour (assuming that's their dream) they'd also have to make 50k to break even.
SO this guy who takes the deal is running no risk, If it turns out he sucks and makes less than 50k he hasn't lost any money although his sponsor does... Again the deal is good, and conditions are just realistic. Business is business....You do everything to minimize to a max the risk of losing your money....

And finally if you have several course records, regularly play below 70, why should you fear going out there and losing money. How can you go to a tournament with that same attitude and win....

I hope you find someone.
[/quote]

Thank you. Nice to see that at least a couple of people don't think I'm crazy!

When I was playing, if I lived a reasonable drive from Calgary, I would have given this a try. I would have felt ( right or wrong, I would have felt it) that I would never average over 70 on a regular member course with easy pins. The most I would be risking ( in my mind at least) was the gas and hotel costs for the week. I used to shoot 67,68,69 almost every single day in practice. I would certainly have a doubt that I could shoot 20 under at will, but I would have thought that there was a better chance of me averaging under 70 than over 70. And there were plenty of times that I shot 20 under for 4 days in practice so I would have taken the chance...

I might have been a little delusional, but I wasn't lacking in confidence.

[titleistnutter]

Isaac, serious question. Why did Poulter make it in your opinion? Off 4 at 22?

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='titleistnutter' timestamp='1328057623' post='4188089']
Isaac, serious question. Why did Poulter make it in your opinion? Off 4 at 22?
[/quote]

He wasn't off four, he was just a 4 in the system because only competitive rounds count once someone is under a 5 in your system. He didn't have the 35 pounds to play in the medal tournaments at the club he worked at so his handicap didn't go down. Im sure he was a 4 when he was 17 or 18 but at 22 he was making money playing professional golf so he was a long way from 4.

[Skydiver22]

Told a friend about this thread.... he is right up this alley and will read up on this, plays to a +7 here locally. He has played the Gateway tour on and off the last couple of years... He is currently looking for sponsors. He might be the right guy to try this.... hypothetically of course.

[cmrl1986]

I know some people were jokingly sayin to make this into a show, but in all seriousness, contact golf channel! I would watch as private investors set up try outs 1 at a time. It beats the hell out of watching 1 person hit 1 shot and go to the elimination challenge! Even making them play one round at a chance for a lower monitory value would be cool to watch.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='titleistnutter' timestamp='1328057623' post='4188089']
Isaac, serious question. Why did Poulter make it in your opinion? Off 4 at 22?
[/quote]


This is a tough one to have a definitive answer for.

The answer you're looking for is the one we're all looking for. It likely involves him somehow being able to tie into the part of his subconscious mind that allows a player to repeat muscular motions with more efficiency . How did he improve so fast? If I had the answer, I would be a legend in the golf world...

I really believe that the Ian Poulter story is extremely over played. At a 4 handicap, he would be shooting near 80 in tournaments. What thrillhouse said above is a little more likely. He probably had a 4 a year before turning pro but stopped entering scores because he wasn't playing events. His official handicap might not have changed yet, but it's not like a 4 just suddenly started shooting in the 60's in tourney's.

I'd really like to hear an interview with Poulter on this whole handicap mystery... anyone have a link to one??

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1328059487' post='4188305']
[quote name='titleistnutter' timestamp='1328057623' post='4188089']
Isaac, serious question. Why did Poulter make it in your opinion? Off 4 at 22?
[/quote]


This is a tough one to have a definitive answer for.

The answer you're looking for is the one we're all looking for. It likely involves him somehow being able to tie into the part of his subconscious mind that allows a player to repeat muscular motions with more efficiency . How did he improve so fast? If I had the answer, I would be a legend in the golf world...

I really believe that the Ian Poulter story is extremely over played. At a 4 handicap, he would be shooting near 80 in tournaments. What thrillhouse said above is a little more likely. He probably had a 4 a year before turning pro but stopped entering scores because he wasn't playing events. His official handicap might not have changed yet, but it's not like a 4 just suddenly started shooting in the 60's in tourney's.

I'd really like to hear an interview with Poulter on this whole handicap mystery... anyone have a link to one??
[/quote]

This one says he shot 66-66 at a tournament when he was 19:

http://www.pgatour.com/2010/tournaments/r475/03/17/wednesdaynotes/index.html

Heres another one with some info:

http://www.waggleroom.com/2008/5/27/540267/ian-poulter-s-humble-begin

It looks like the story may have been that he turned pro when he was 18 off of 4 to work in the shop and improved a lot between then and a year later when he was shooting in the mid 60's in tournaments. There is a guy around here who was like that, when he was 18 he was a 4 with no college offers, at 22 he was one of the best amateur players ever around here, been a pretty successful pro too.

People develop at different rates, thats why I encouraged the kid a week ago in the other thread who is a scratch to play the Pepsi tour and work on his game while he works at a golf course. You never know, it might click and you might reach a whole new level in your game. My point is its best to find a way to reach that next level on your own dime so you don't wind up owing anybody anything.

[teeituphigh]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1328056105' post='4187897']
[quote name='teeituphigh' timestamp='1328035693' post='4185673']
Isaac/Thrillhouse.....Im just a Kiwi Pro coming to Canada for May-Sept to work in Yellowknife at the golf course there....If Canadians are half as good value as you guys I will be in for a good time!

Isaac, What your doing is great. I only wish I had of stuck with my game instead of waving the white flag and selling coke and mars bars now with the odd lesson thrown in.
[/quote]

You'll have a blast. Should have day light at least 20 hours a day up there.


[/quote]

I believe it is 24 hours at times....You can play all day/night if you wish. There is a tournament called the Midnight Golf Classic. Apparently going to the bars at 10pm and coming out at 3am and its still light can be a bit weird.