Leoupold lost a loyal customer today

[avgjoe]

are people pushing and holding the button down, or pushing a releasing?

[junior22]

Moron?...jeez someones really getting bent outta shape over this...i do not need to prove anything to anyone i was simply stating FACTS...if you would like to do the same then feel free, but your opinion means nothing to me...you can't really jump in with "you are 100% wrong" unless you have sufficient proof to back it up, which you failed to mention.

[Big Ben]

Let's all cool down a bit and get back on topic, avejoe asked a good question, I too have the DNA model and it doesn't lock well and flash distances at epic speed, any thoughts? Let's figure this out....BB

[Ti-Cip]

well,, i'm waiting to hear from the OP.he said something along the lines i was a hack, etc for stating what i know is true,,
truth, my new gx 4i locks onto prisms well,
truth, leupold CS told me these units are not legal for tournament play..

[dxdgenert]

[quote name='junior22' timestamp='1339447551' post='5069188']
Moron?...jeez someones really getting bent outta shape over this...i do not need to prove anything to anyone i was simply stating FACTS...if you would like to do the same then feel free, but your opinion means nothing to me...you can't really jump in with "you are 100% wrong" unless you have sufficient proof to back it up, which you failed to mention.
[/quote]
Man you are dense... The USGA and Leupold have said that it is NOT legal for tournamnet play! What "proof" do you need?

You seem like the type of person who would need God, himself, to decree it... Even then, I doubt you'd accept it.

I am only getting "hot" because you are stating your anectdotal story, which is false by the way, as a fact and telling others they are wrong. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here...

[slookx24]

I find that the scan mode works better than the point and shoot mode. Give that a shot.

[theshow]

Junior22, The unit is illegal 100% illegal. You don't know what you are talking about.

He's from Boston, lets give him a break.

BTW, what tour do you & your brother play on?

[mickw]

[quote name='junior22' timestamp='1339447551' post='5069188']
Moron?...jeez someones really getting bent outta shape over this...i do not need to prove anything to anyone i was simply stating FACTS...if you would like to do the same then feel free, but your opinion means nothing to me...you can't really jump in with "you are 100% wrong" unless you have sufficient proof to back it up, which you failed to mention.
[/quote]

Junior22...you are incorrect.

Rule 14-3 Appendix IV (#5) of the 2012-2015 USGA Rules of Golf and Amateur Status states:

[b] 5. Distance-Measuring Devices (Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-14/#14-3"]14-3[/url])[/b]

[color=#474747][size=3]During a [i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Stipulated-Round"]stipulated round[/url][/i], the use of any distance measuring device is not permitted unless the Committee has introduced a Local Rule to that effect (see Note to Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-14/#14-3"]14-3[/url] and Appendix I; Part B; Section 9).[/size][/color]
[color=#474747][size=3]Even when the Local Rule is in effect, the device must be limited to measuring distance only. Features that would render use of the device contrary to the Local Rule include, but are not limited to:[/size][/color]
[indent=1]• the gauging or measuring of slope;[/indent]
[indent=1][color=#474747][size=3]• the gauging or measuring of other conditions that might affect play (e.g., wind speed or direction, or other climate-based information such as temperature, humidity, etc.);[/size][/color][/indent]
[indent=1][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][size=3]• recommendations that might assist the player in making a [i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Stroke"]stroke[/url][/i] or in his play (e.g., club selection, type of shot to be played, green reading or any other advice related matter); or[/size][/color][/size][/color][/indent]
[indent=1][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3]• calculating the effective distance between two points based on slope or other conditions affecting shot distance.[/size][/color][/size][/color][/size][/font][/color][/indent]


[color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3]Such non-conforming features render use of the device contrary to the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Rule-Or-Rules"]Rules[/url][/i], irrespective of whether or not:[/size][/color][/size][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color]
[indent=1][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3]• the features can be switched off or disengaged; and[/size][/color][/size][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/indent]
[indent=1][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3]• the features are switched off or disengaged.[/size][/color][/size][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/indent]

[color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3][color=#474747][font=arial][size=3]A multi-functional device, such as a smartphone or PDA, may be used as a distance measuring device provided it contains a distance measuring application that meets all of the above limitations (i.e., it must measure distance only). In addition, when the distance measuring application is being used, there must be no other features or applications installed on the device that, if used, would be in breach of the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Rule-Or-Rules"]Rules[/url][/i], whether or not they are actually used.[/size][/color][/size][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/color]

[Ripken08]

the 4 is not legal for tourn play.. so maybe you should be glad you didn't use it or you might have been dq'd..

seems like if they twice said there was nothing wrong with the unit, maybe it is user error?? i have the same model and i can assure you mine locks on to prisms easily, so i don't know about any thing defective with the unit..

I have had other GX's and it is a problem with processor in the DNA models. Not user error and it is legal BTW.. Too many idiots on this site anymore. WOW fools and hacks. lol

 

The GX-4i is non-conforming...you would have been DQ'd

 

Sorry for the diagnosis...lol.

 

 

Too funny! Also funny that the OP vanished after he was called out. Maybe he got a "Rangefinder for Dummies" book and figured it out.

[DixieMafia]

I have both the GX3i and GX4i and I've NEVER have any issues with them. In fact, I've had the previuos models of both as well and never had an issue with those either.

This definitely sounds like "user error" to me.

[matchavez]

[quote name='Wardonation' timestamp='1339217629' post='5056520']
I used last years GX4i flawlessly. My buddy wanted it so I sold it to him and bought the new GX4I DNA. Noticed it would not lock on prisms? Rep said it was user error and I explained that I had no problems with the old one. He was nice enough to bring me out another because I had a tourney. He said this one works great. Well during practice round once again it would not lock on prism at all! It also would flash the yds instead of being steady. Called rep he said that the engineers discovered that the processor was to wuick and they had a fix for it. I said I need in a week as I have a big tourney, He said send it in no problem. So I paid $49 to overnight it and two weeks later and several calls I went and picked it up at Leoupold myself. A guy came out and said he was sorry but it was working great. So I get to the tourney and what do you know SAME FRIGGIN issue. I sked him if I could get a refund and last years model. He said no take it back to Progolf and they will refund your money? He told me to try another range finder.. WOW!!! I love the Leoupold but now my buddy has the one that works and I have one that does not! I am going to write a letter to the president of the company.
[/quote]

Anyone notice homeboy doesn't even know how to spell the company's name? This has all sorts of troll about it. Also, last year, there was no 4i; those are new. That's a bit pickier, but still inaccurate. "...the processor was to[sic] wuick[sic]..." Come on. Overnighted something for $49, then picked it up, but didn't drop it off? Really? Personally, if this post is any indication, I agree with the Leupold rep; go be someone else's problem.

[dollarbills]

Picked up a GX-4i and played my first round with it. Course didn't have prisms but I was able to scan each flag and get yardage nearly instantly (even into dusk with overcast weather). Absolutely love this thing. Confirmed prism lock by shooting a few rear tail reflectors in the parking lot.

[Agent Jim]

Buy a Bushnell V2, it works flawlessly for me so far. Leopold for my rifle scopes, Bushnell for golf.

[jcwooddt]

Junior, You are 100% Wrong. You say you have not seen sufficient proof to prove this. Look at the many posts above WHICH QUOTE THE USGA RULE BOOK IN THE MATTER.

If you are so sure, I dare you at your next professional event to go up the a USGA rules official in the middle of a round and tell him you have been using the GX-4 during the round. I DARE YOU.

[SpongeBob]

[quote name='slookx24' timestamp='1339455705' post='5070092']
I find that the scan mode works better than the point and shoot mode. Give that a shot.
[/quote]
I have the original GX-4 and have found it to grab flags at distances I didn't think possible. It also locates prism pins but you have to hold the button down (scan mode) until it beeps (optional) and lights up the square frame in the center of the VF.

BTW...The prisms that I see are most often about 2/3 of the way up the pin...rarely on the top.

[mact3333]

[size=3]So Im the only one who has probs with their GX-4i???...I am not even talking about the prism lock not working, I cant seem to lock onto pins/flags from 150 yards away very well...I use scan mode and I keep getting numbers flipping back and forth...doent work nearly as well as my old Bushnell 1500 slope edition...yeah the red graphics look cool but it doesnt seem to work that great imho.[/size]

[MaxBuck]

[quote name='mact3333' timestamp='1340404652' post='5151412']
[size=3]So Im the only one who has probs with their GX-4i???...I am not even talking about the prism lock not working, I cant seem to lock onto pins/flags from 150 yards away very well...I use scan mode and I keep getting numbers flipping back and forth...doent work nearly as well as my old Bushnell 1500 slope edition...yeah the red graphics look cool but it doesnt seem to work that great imho.[/size]
[/quote]No, you're not alone. I have a new GX-4 that I can't get to read a pin at all. Pretty worthless device for me - probably my hands shake too much.

By the way, regardless of those comments above, my reading of the USGA rule suggests that someone who has a GX-4 and has left the yellow faceplate at home has, in fact, a conforming device. I wouldn't want to challenge some USGA dweeb who has been brainwashed into thinking otherwise, but my reading of the rule indicates it conforms, so long as you have no means to read anything other than distance with it (and you don't, if all you have is the chrome faceplate).

[dxdgenert]

[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340579892' post='5160128']
[quote name='mact3333' timestamp='1340404652' post='5151412']
[size=3]So Im the only one who has probs with their GX-4i???...I am not even talking about the prism lock not working, I cant seem to lock onto pins/flags from 150 yards away very well...I use scan mode and I keep getting numbers flipping back and forth...doent work nearly as well as my old Bushnell 1500 slope edition...yeah the red graphics look cool but it doesnt seem to work that great imho.[/size]
[/quote]No, you're not alone. I have a new GX-4 that I can't get to read a pin at all. Pretty worthless device for me - probably my hands shake too much.

By the way, regardless of those comments above, my reading of the USGA rule suggests that someone who has a GX-4 and has left the yellow faceplate at home has, in fact, a conforming device. I wouldn't want to challenge some USGA dweeb who has been brainwashed into thinking otherwise, but my reading of the rule indicates it conforms, so long as you have no means to read anything other than distance with it (and you don't, if all you have is the chrome faceplate).
[/quote]
So, did you read the part where Leupold and the USGA said that is was illegal?

[MaxBuck]

[quote name='dxdgenert' timestamp='1340589959' post='5161080']
[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340579892' post='5160128']
[quote name='mact3333' timestamp='1340404652' post='5151412']
[size=3]So Im the only one who has probs with their GX-4i???...I am not even talking about the prism lock not working, I cant seem to lock onto pins/flags from 150 yards away very well...I use scan mode and I keep getting numbers flipping back and forth...doent work nearly as well as my old Bushnell 1500 slope edition...yeah the red graphics look cool but it doesnt seem to work that great imho.[/size]
[/quote]No, you're not alone. I have a new GX-4 that I can't get to read a pin at all. Pretty worthless device for me - probably my hands shake too much.

By the way, regardless of those comments above, my reading of the USGA rule suggests that someone who has a GX-4 and has left the yellow faceplate at home has, in fact, a conforming device. I wouldn't want to challenge some USGA dweeb who has been brainwashed into thinking otherwise, but my reading of the rule indicates it conforms, so long as you have no means to read anything other than distance with it (and you don't, if all you have is the chrome faceplate).
[/quote]
So, did you read the part where Leupold and the USGA said that is was illegal?
[/quote]I have read no quote where Leupold acknowledged the device, when equipped only with the chrome faceplate, was non-conforming ("illegal" is inaccurate - you won't be arrested anywhere for using it). And I've not read any official determination of the USGA that definitively states the device is non-conforming under all circumstances. I've read a couple quotes where some USGA "official" has opined that it doesn't conform, though what that means is open to question.

[pbass6811]

I just have a question...why is there still the question of the conformity of the device when all the rules that have been posted pretty clearly state that if a device has some non-conforming feature(i.e. slope measurement or club selector or whatever), even if that feature is disabled, it is still non-conforming and can not be used in a tournament? I'm really just curious because it seems pretty obvious. Did I miss something?

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340590864' post='5161168']

So, did you read the part where Leupold and the USGA said that is was illegal?
I have read no quote where Leupold acknowledged the device, when equipped only with the chrome faceplate, was non-conforming ("illegal" is inaccurate - you won't be arrested anywhere for using it). And I've not read any official determination of the USGA that definitively states the device is non-conforming under all circumstances. I've read a couple quotes where some USGA "official" has opined that it doesn't conform, though what that means is open to question.
[/quote]

Here is an official statement, jointly issued by the USGA and R&A that is pretty clear.

[url="http://www.usga.org/equipment/overview/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/"]http://www.usga.org/equipment/overview/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/[/url]

dave

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='pbass6811' timestamp='1340603901' post='5162030']
I just have a question...why is there still the question of the conformity of the device when all the rules that have been posted pretty clearly state that if a device has some non-conforming feature(i.e. slope measurement or club selector or whatever), even if that feature is disabled, it is still non-conforming and can not be used in a tournament? I'm really just curious because it seems pretty obvious. Did I miss something?
[/quote]

IMHO, the problem is that to many people (including me) the interpretation seems inconsistent. Adjustable clubs are illegal but adjustable drivers are not. I suppose that it is because the R11's of the world require 'a tool' to be adjusted (just like the GX-4 requires 'a tool' to be changed).

But the ruling is the ruling. I am sure that the USGA and R&A took some care here, but the outcome surprised me (and Leupold, IMHO).

dave

[moonshine]

If I owned one and it was a build issue they would send me a label to get it back to them or I would take it to the store I bought it from. As another posted, I too have had a 1500 now for years and NEVER an issue at all. Don't know why anyone would fool with anything but a Bushnell.

[MaxBuck]

[quote name='DaveLeeNC' timestamp='1340622464' post='5162378']
[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340590864' post='5161168']
So, did you read the part where Leupold and the USGA said that is was illegal?
I have read no quote where Leupold acknowledged the device, when equipped only with the chrome faceplate, was non-conforming ("illegal" is inaccurate - you won't be arrested anywhere for using it). And I've not read any official determination of the USGA that definitively states the device is non-conforming under all circumstances. I've read a couple quotes where some USGA "official" has opined that it doesn't conform, though what that means is open to question.
[/quote]

Here is an official statement, jointly issued by the USGA and R&A that is pretty clear.

[url="http://www.usga.org/equipment/overview/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/"]http://www.usga.org/...tronic-Devices/[/url]

dave
[/quote]I agree; very clear. The GX-4, when equipped [u]only[/u] with the chrome faceplate, does not violate any of the conditions set forth in that statement.

I'm not going to argue this point any longer, as it really makes no difference to me. If I elect to keep my GX-4, I will have no qualms in reporting the resulting scores for HCP purposes. And I don't intend to use it in any competitive events. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions on this one.

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340625456' post='5162514']
[quote name='DaveLeeNC' timestamp='1340622464' post='5162378']
[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340590864' post='5161168']
So, did you read the part where Leupold and the USGA said that is was illegal?
I have read no quote where Leupold acknowledged the device, when equipped only with the chrome faceplate, was non-conforming ("illegal" is inaccurate - you won't be arrested anywhere for using it). And I've not read any official determination of the USGA that definitively states the device is non-conforming under all circumstances. I've read a couple quotes where some USGA "official" has opined that it doesn't conform, though what that means is open to question.
[/quote]

Here is an official statement, jointly issued by the USGA and R&A that is pretty clear.

[url="http://www.usga.org/equipment/overview/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/"]http://www.usga.org/...tronic-Devices/[/url]

dave
[/quote]I agree; very clear. The GX-4, when equipped [u]only[/u] with the chrome faceplate, does not violate any of the conditions set forth in that statement.

I'm not going to argue this point any longer, as it really makes no difference to me. If I elect to keep my GX-4, I will have no qualms in reporting the resulting scores for HCP purposes. And I don't intend to use it in any competitive events. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions on this one.
[/quote]

Direct quote from that link: [color=#000000][size=3][left]There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged. [/left][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3][left]How does it not violate that?[/left][/size][/color]

[MaxBuck]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1340630064' post='5162840']
Direct quote from that link:
[left]There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged.[/left]


[left][color=#000000][size=3]How does it not violate that?[/size][/color][/left]

[/quote]If the golfer possesses the device with [u]only[/u] the chrome faceplate, it isn't a matter of the features being "switched off or disengaged;" it is a matter of the device not having the features at all. The device that provides those features is the yellow faceplate, and if the golfer does not possess that, he does not possess a non-conforming device, [u]in my opinion[/u]. Until the USGA issues an opinion that explicitly disagrees with this interpretation, I feel comfortable using it for HCP reporting purposes. And again, others are free to disagree.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340637032' post='5163430']
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1340630064' post='5162840']
Direct quote from that link:
[left]There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged.[/left]


[left][color=#000000][size=3]How does it not violate that?[/size][/color][/left]

[/quote]If the golfer possesses the device with [u]only[/u] the chrome faceplate, it isn't a matter of the features being "switched off or disengaged;" it is a matter of the device not having the features at all. The device that provides those features is the yellow faceplate, and if the golfer does not possess that, he does not possess a non-conforming device, [u]in my opinion[/u]. Until the USGA issues an opinion that explicitly disagrees with this interpretation, I feel comfortable using it for HCP reporting purposes. And again, others are free to disagree.
[/quote]

I have no serious qualms with someone posting rounds using the device as you have stated.

But I would suggest that you not try to do this in a higher level tournament that allows distance measuring devices. The device is non-conforming regardless of what external hardware you do or do not own. If you were to completely disable the ability of the 'yellow thing' to enable slope measurements somehow, you might have a valid point.

dave

[Jodymac]

[quote name='Wardonation' timestamp='1339217629' post='5056520']
I used last years GX4i flawlessly. My buddy wanted it so I sold it to him and bought the new GX4I DNA. Noticed it would not lock on prisms? Rep said it was user error and I explained that I had no problems with the old one. He was nice enough to bring me out another because I had a tourney. He said this one works great. Well during practice round once again it would not lock on prism at all! It also would flash the yds instead of being steady. Called rep he said that the engineers discovered that the processor was to wuick and they had a fix for it. I said I need in a week as I have a big tourney, He said send it in no problem. So I paid $49 to overnight it and two weeks later and several calls I went and picked it up at Leoupold myself. A guy came out and said he was sorry but it was working great. So I get to the tourney and what do you know SAME FRIGGIN issue. I sked him if I could get a refund and last years model. He said no take it back to Progolf and they will refund your money? He told me to try another range finder.. WOW!!! I love the Leoupold but now my buddy has the one that works and I have one that does not! I am going to write a letter to the president of the company.
[/quote]


Played with a buddy this afternoon. He has a GX4i DNA and I have a GX4. Mine locked onto the prisms every time and his only locked on about 30% of the time. We both tried using his and it just didn't lock on as often. It's my 1st experience with the GX4i-DNA but I think that there could be some kind of issue with the prism lock on some of the GX4i's.

[mact3333]

Many of the GX3i and 4i's recently sold were defective when they left the factory...software glitch...when the discovered the software glitch, they reflashed all the units they had at the Beaverton factory, but many got away un-reflashed.

The defective ones wont lock well on anything(essentially useless unless prism on flagstick) and when I first got my GX 4i I figured something was wrong or it was the the biggest POS laser rangefinder of all time.

I talked to Leupold and they admitted everything I said above so, I dropped it off last week in person...guy personally said he would reflash it for me next day and mail it out to me...reflash takes 15 min's tops...one week later I have nothing(note I live 30 min's away from factory)....so I call and of course they havent done anything yet, so I showed some annoyance.

Well two days later they send me a new unit still wrapped in the box...Leupold stepped up...tested the GX4i and now it works great...night and day difference...I am disappointed that Leupold sent out many defective units and didnt do official recall but in the end they did step up...this unit when functioning properly works better than the Bushnell 1500 SE it replaced.

If your GX 3/4i doesnt work, call Leupold and send it back for reflash...it will prob take at least 2-3 wks before they even get to it but otherwise you have a useless and expensive device...now if the reflash really wont fix this problem, then they should send you entire new unit...I dont know why I got new unit rather than reflash of my old unit...did they just feel bad for me for waiting or was the reflash not solving the problem???...hmmm.

[MaxBuck]

[quote name='DaveLeeNC' timestamp='1340660975' post='5165990']
[quote name='MaxBuck' timestamp='1340637032' post='5163430']
[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1340630064' post='5162840']
Direct quote from that link:
[left]There would be a breach of the Rules even if all of the above features can be switched off or disengaged, and in fact are switched off or disengaged.[/left]


[left][color=#000000][size=3]How does it not violate that?[/size][/color][/left]

[/quote]If the golfer possesses the device with [u]only[/u] the chrome faceplate, it isn't a matter of the features being "switched off or disengaged;" it is a matter of the device not having the features at all. The device that provides those features is the yellow faceplate, and if the golfer does not possess that, he does not possess a non-conforming device, [u]in my opinion[/u]. Until the USGA issues an opinion that explicitly disagrees with this interpretation, I feel comfortable using it for HCP reporting purposes. And again, others are free to disagree.
[/quote]

... I would suggest that you not try to do this in a higher level tournament that allows distance measuring devices.
[/quote]If you were to see my swing, you'd quickly see that my using this in a "higher level tournament" is pretty unlikely.