It's time to work on your short game

[Dennis Clark]

Just finished a 7-hour 8-player golf school, day 1. Day 2 tomorrow will feature sand play and chipping. I do pitching and putting on day one in addition to full swing. I cover all areas of short game equally and I gave 8 different lessons. Often I get asked what do I teach? My stock answer is "I have no idea until I see you"...My schools are not structured, you can work on any area of the game you feel needs the most help, and I'm there with you. Fed Ex group, all sore and tired tonight cause I worked them hard. I had two guys who hit balls all day, and 2 guys who never took a full swing! All depends on what you want. I do not force my short game preference on anyone, just let them know what I think is best...

[Eag1e]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1359846901' post='6351501']
All Im saying is that when I started playing golf, my coach who is a class A PGA pro, and one of the top 100 club fitters in the nation as rated by this sites parent company, started me swinging the PW, and worked my way up the bag from there. Not the reverse. I would then conclude that development of the short game precedes development of the long game.

As for how to lower your score - scoring is a product of multiple factors, but everyone agrees most shots are lost around the green. Certain level golfers can only improve their game by addressing their specific weaknesses, whether driving, putting, course management, club selection, etc.

The general thesis of this article still holds true - addressing your short game is the most efficient way of lowering your score. It may not be the most efficient way of becoming a scratch golfer, or any specific handicap. Its about as accurate as using your handicap to determine what category of golf clubs to buy when the clubs you should be swinging depends largely on your swing itself.

That's my .02
[/quote]

Imo it's a reflection that you can learn swing mechanics easier with a shorter club than a longer club. Swinging a PW is not part of short game unless you can manage to hit PW from like 40 yards. Which for me would only be doable if I was carrying it 20 and running it the other 20. It's a bit of a hidden thing from my view because very frequently working on short game is the quickest way to improve long game, because it's simply easier to learn good contact on a full swing when you know what it feels like to begin with, which is far easier to learn in a chip than a drive.

And actually I wouldn't agree most shots are lost around the green until you get to single digits. Hitting a drive OB costs two shots, blocking a 4 iron into the woods for a lost ball costs two shots... and whiffing a drive 190 then topping an iron and maybe miraculously getting near the green in three still costs a shot, but often someone doing that can lose [i]more[/i] than a shot in their efforts at getting to the green. If you miss 14 greens a round and get up and down [b]once[/b] you're probably losing 8-9 shots to a really good player, but if you hit two drives OB, a shot in the hazard, a shot in the woods you have to punch out, and have six holes where it takes more than regulation to move up the fairway and get near the green (which is probably generous for a ton of players), you're losing [b]12+[/b] to a really good player.

Me personally? Even if I am having such a bad day that I feel like someone who's played for half an hour in their life, I'm still hitting 6-9 greens, keeping it in play, and near every green in regulation. So there's absolutely no excuse for me to ever shoot worse than 76 on my [i]worst[/i] days, probably no worse than 74-75 on my regularly bad ones, yet I consistently manage to put up big numbers on those days because of poor work around the greens. I'm probably one of the rare few who has 4-putted from inside of 20 feet in a tournament within a week of breaking par. So yeah, I'm definitely someone who is gonna get the bulk of shots dropped through short game. But at the same time, I'm someone who literally can stand on one leg and hit the ball about as good as a 10 handicap does. If I miss a shot it's nearly never in trouble. The problem is you can take someone who misses the exact same amount of times I do in a round and they'd be all over the map and probably shoot 105 on those days because their misses are baaaaaaaad. If I'm being specific I'd say that the quickest way to drop shots for most people is to learn to miss it thin and straight.

[Dennis Clark]

When you "double greens in regulation" (rarely) you get a LOT more long putts. No one goes from missing greens to stuffing it! When GIRs go up, very often so do three putts. The same people who were chipping from 40 feet are now putting from 35.

[Eag1e]

[quote name='Woodlands2' timestamp='1359849055' post='6351657']
When you "double greens in regulation" (rarely) you get a LOT more long putts. No one goes from missing greens to stuffing it! When GIRs go up, very often so do three putts. The same people who were chipping from 40 feet are now putting from 35.
[/quote]

I can't imagine it being that hard to go from 2 to 4 or 3 to 6. Lag putting is easy to learn when you have a use for it anyhow - no technique involved, just learning distance control

[Martee]

[quote name='Woodlands2' timestamp='1359849055' post='6351657']
When you "double greens in regulation" (rarely) you get a LOT more long putts. No one goes from missing greens to stuffing it! When GIRs go up, very often so do three putts. The same people who were chipping from 40 feet are now putting from 35.
[/quote]

Recently I discovered that there are 'Good GIRs' and 'Bad GIRs'. The latter are the GIRs where you are more likely to 3 putt from. On slippery greens, wrong tier, wide swinging breaks, 2 putting from out side of 30 feet is often a miracle.

I also discovered (re-discovered) the Good Miss and Bad Miss. Again when you miss were you have no opportunity to create a realistic scoring opportunity, in fact in some cases you may be further from the pin than you started out, those are score killers.

I don't care how good your short game is, how good of putter you are, when you have a chip/pitch or putt downhill that you are lucky to get to stop 10 feet past, that was a bad GIR or Miss.

I am a big fan of Lucius Riccio, he makes a good case for what stats are important and the relationship they have to score. I think for the golfer in the mid 80s or lowere he is spot on.

The mid to high handicappers/scorers that I have seen lose a lot of strokes around and on the green, BUT they lose more strokes on the way to the green from what I have seen.

I also beleive most golfer are quite capable of routinely shooting in the 80's if they were taught/learned how to play golf, not just swing a golf club, etc.

[thekru]

All I can say is: 'the better my short game is, the better my long game is'......[i]something[/i] leads me to believe this. I wonder what it is......?

[Parker0065]

[quote name='360_CS' timestamp='1359794669' post='6348495']
Nice article.

When I started focusing on my short game I saw my handicap drop a bunch of shots. I have had so many days when I am hitting the ball bad but the short game kept me shooting around my handicap and nothing annoys an opponent more that when you get up and down all the time. Only problem was that spending so much time on my short game has had pretty bad consequences on my long game (just need to get that ratio right).

The reason why not many people practice the short game is because it can be so boring. You see juniors at our club who go straight to the range, hit a few pitches, a few 8 irons and then go straight to drivers. I don't blame them though that is what I did until I realised that the short game is where you can improve the most shots easily (well sort of easily).

Agree with you about having zero feel when you are worried about technique. After you gave me those tips and played a round my pitching distance control was so bad, was making way to bigger swing thinking about the position the club is in instead of thinking where I want the ball to land. From now on swing thought are only for the range.

@ Parker0065 what's your fairway %. Just curious because I'm trying to get to a 0 and would like some stats to compare to mine. Cheers
[/quote]

360,
At my home course I'm right around 70% but due to the layout I only hit Driver 8 out of 14 holes(some holes are short but tight). On longer courses where I'm going to hit Driver more often It will drop a couple percentage points.

[Parker0065]

[quote name='Woodlands2' timestamp='1359849055' post='6351657']
When you "double greens in regulation" (rarely) you get a LOT more long putts. No one goes from missing greens to stuffing it! When GIRs go up, very often so do three putts. The same people who were chipping from 40 feet are now putting from 35.
[/quote]

And if that person wants to continue to improve they will work on their lag putting and shoot lower scores.

There are countless roads to improving and learning the game. There isn't one set way that works for everyone. Nicklaus learned to hit the ball hard and long at a young age and never really developed much of a short game around the greens. He didn't need to with his excellent ball striking ability. On the other hand Tom Kite learned the game from the green back to the tee. He had a world class short game but 15 year old girls today hit the ball farther than he did back then. The point is the importance of either the short game, putting, or full swing should be based on each individual and their abilities. As I stated before, I don't think you can go wrong with a 60% short game / 40% full swing practice routine but the relevance of what's truely important to each golfers will vary based on their abilities/needs.

[JustTheTips]

Your big assumption is that they were chipping from 40 feet instead of hitting a GIR. That might be largely true for the sub 80 player. For the 90 and up players it is just as likely that you were 100 yards from the hole (i.e. lost a shot off tee, chunked an approach shot 50 yards, and so on).

And I would actually guess that it isn't quite as bad as you make out. One of the keys to hitting more greens is to hit better tee shots. Having a 125 approach shot instead of a 150 would increase the number of hit greens by quite a bit and on average you will be several yards closer to the pin.


[quote name='Woodlands2' timestamp='1359849055' post='6351657']
When you "double greens in regulation" (rarely) you get a LOT more long putts. No one goes from missing greens to stuffing it! When GIRs go up, very often so do three putts. The same people who were chipping from 40 feet are now putting from 35.
[/quote]

[plus8]

[quote name='Woodlands2' timestamp='1359848775' post='6351645']
Just finished a 7-hour 8-player golf school, day 1. Day 2 tomorrow will feature sand play and chipping. I do pitching and putting on day one in addition to full swing. I cover all areas of short game equally and I gave 8 different lessons. Often I get asked what do I teach? My stock answer is "I have no idea until I see you"...My schools are not structured, you can work on any area of the game you feel needs the most help, and I'm there with you. Fed Ex group, all sore and tired tonight cause I worked them hard. I had two guys who hit balls all day, and 2 guys who never took a full swing! All depends on what you want. I do not force my short game preference on anyone, just let them know what I think is best...
[/quote]


GREAT article!!! Every great golfer / teacher knows you're right. This article hits 'dead center' on the subject most dear to serious or aspiring golfers' agendas: How -- To -- Score -- Lower...

I was languishing at around 16 or more for years - and happy about it because "I was in the 80's" -- before I learned the magic formula that includes your advice:

1. Get clubs that are right for you. Get heads that can be played by you. Get a repeatable swing that you can rely on every time.
2. Know what distances are reliable for which club and use that knowledge to your advantage (instead of trying to stretch into low percentage 'Hollywood' shots).
3. Spend at least 1.5 hours on chipping / putting / greenside sand shots for every hour you spend banging irons/woods. Yeah, I know it's not sexy. But scoring is sexy.
4. Putt. And putt, and putt, and putt.

Last season I went from 14.5 to 9. Why? because of my 135-yd-and-in game.
This year, I will get to 6 or 7. Why? because of my 10-yd-and-in game.
And next year???? Well, next year I guess I'll have to bring a bunch of hats to the 16th hole........(okay just kidding about that part).

But I HAVE found that as I get better, I fret less about landing off-green (I mean, I'm either gonna get there or not, but I'm gonna be close either way), and spend a lot more time studying how I'm gonna get up-and-down from those spots. It has become the most interesting and compelling part of the game for me. And in the process, I have rediscovered lag putting, my 8/9-iron bump-and-run shots, my short knock-down check-and-spin shots, plumb-bobbing, how to REALLY use a PW, dropping-and-stopping from sand, and on and on.

Keep up the good work, PM me with some info about your schools!

[butch33611]

I think a lot of this discussion with different views would have a lot to do with the player and his abilities. Some new players cant get the ball off the ground to save them so maybe starting with the short clubs would be the best way to start where others have a certian amount of natural ability who can hit the driver fairly well and get some kind of decent ball contact with the irons just based on natural ability. It was never brought up as to the abilites of the golfer this discussion would be pointed twards. It appears like everyone has an idea of the golfer in question based on the different direction they think the instruction should go.If this guy is wiffin the driver he deffinately needs to start with the short clubs and work his way up. I dont see how anyone could argue that.Even amoung the brand new player there's huge differences in abilities. Maybe a discription of the golfer in question would bring the opionions a little closer together.And thats just my opionion.

[Dennis Clark]

Lots of good comments and thoughts. Thx for all the interest. Let's take the discussion in another direction. If you have access t to TRACKMAN in your area, take the combine test. It will tell you where you are weak, strong and a lot of other things about your game. 60 shots, various lengths, scores for accuracy. VERY accurate handicap predictor.

[Dennis Clark]

I'd love to get some scores, see what everyone thinks of the test. I use it to evaluate students and identify weaknesses. I'd like to know some scores if any of you have access to the technology.

[Obee]

[quote name='Dennis Clark' timestamp='1359947593' post='6358351']
I'd love to get some scores, see what everyone thinks of the test. I use it to evaluate students and identify weaknesses. I'd like to know some scores if any of you have access to the technology.
[/quote]

I'd love to do this. Not sure where to go, though....

[cac022]

[quote name='Dennis Clark' timestamp='1359942823' post='6357881']
Lots of good comments and thoughts. Thx for all the interest. Let's take the discussion in another direction. If you have access t to TRACKMAN in your area, take the combine test. It will tell you where you are weak, strong and a lot of other things about your game. 60 shots, various lengths, scores for accuracy. VERY accurate handicap predictor.
[/quote]

In the next few weeks I'm planning on booking out a trackman session for an hour or so.

Off the top of your head what score should I be achieving if I'm playing off 3?

[Dennis Clark]

[quote name='Obee' timestamp='1359947936' post='6358393']
[quote name='Dennis Clark' timestamp='1359947593' post='6358351']
I'd love to get some scores, see what everyone thinks of the test. I use it to evaluate students and identify weaknesses. I'd like to know some scores if any of you have access to the technology.
[/quote]

I'd love to do this. Not sure where to go, though....
[/quote]

Google trackman locator. They have a national map, it'll tell you where the nearest one to you is. Report back when you do it. Thx

[Dennis Clark]

[quote name='cac022' timestamp='1359974189' post='6359431']
[quote name='Dennis Clark' timestamp='1359942823' post='6357881']
Lots of good comments and thoughts. Thx for all the interest. Let's take the discussion in another direction. If you have access t to TRACKMAN in your area, take the combine test. It will tell you where you are weak, strong and a lot of other things about your game. 60 shots, various lengths, scores for accuracy. VERY accurate handicap predictor.
[/quote]

In the next few weeks I'm planning on booking out a trackman session for an hour or so.

Off the top of your head what score should I be achieving if I'm playing off 3?
[/quote]

Try this Link:
http://www.gapgolf.org/charts.asp?sfile=static/archive/2011_trackman_combine_recap.html

[swizbeatz]

I never got great scores on that but have only done it indoors, tough when not only is there no flag to shoot at you also don't see the ball flight. 1 bad swing per distance gives you low scores haha.

I feel like anyone who has belonged to a country club may agree with you fully. Most of the guys at my old club were 60+ and their handicap had barely moved, they literally get up and down from everywhere. The guy saying someone missing 12 greens probably can't break 80, I've seen guys miss 14 greens and shoot under par.

[JustTheTips]

In my experience this happens you have golfers playing courses too long for them by 500+ yards. These guys have solid long games (i.e. the ball goes about distance they expect and in the right direction) but they have lost distance. They are stuck hitting a lot of 3/5/hybrid approach shots from 200 instead of an 8 iron from 150.

Again keep it simple. Look at your game and see where you are losing shots. Don't depend on some generic internet posting to tell you what to practice.


[quote name='swizbeatz' timestamp='1359990166' post='6360163']

I feel like anyone who has belonged to a country club may agree with you fully. Most of the guys at my old club were 60+ and their handicap had barely moved, they literally get up and down from everywhere. The guy saying someone missing 12 greens probably can't break 80, I've seen guys miss 14 greens and shoot under par.
[/quote]

[sonofagunn]

[quote name='JustTheTips' timestamp='1359991185' post='6360261']
Again keep it simple. Look at your game and see where you are losing shots. Don't depend on some generic internet posting to tell you what to practice.
[/quote]

... you also have to consider effort needed to improve. You may be losing a lot of strokes with your driver, and only 1 or 2 strokes in bunker play, but if you've been working on your driver for years without improvement, it may be difficult to gain a stroke or two there, whereas a week or two in the practice bunker might get you those 1 or 2 strokes pretty easily.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='Dennis Clark' timestamp='1359656566' post='6337661']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1359654474' post='6337291']
I couldn't agree more but in time you will find folk who disagree strongly. I wish we had some reliable way of knowing what kind of handicaps those who think the secret to scoring is in the long game play to.

Steve
[/quote]

Well Steve Ive got 30 years of teaching those people under my belt, I'd say that's a fairly reliable source of watching handicaps...I had a guy once who could not break 40 for nine holes whatever he did. On the lesson tee the ball GREAT. So i played nine holes with him. I said, "you hit the ball once on the par threes, twice on the par fours, and three times on the par fives, the ILL FINISH THE HOLE FROM WHEREVER THE BALL IS". We shot 37.
[/quote]

Out of curiousity, did you play the other 9 with you hitting the first two shots and him finishing it out from there? Because the experiment would probably be of more value if you did it that way. All you proved is that you have a better wedge and short game than he does. That's probably not saying much if he's the one paying you for golf lessons.

Not saying I disagree with the overall premise of the article by the way. But an apples to apples comparison would probably help reveal the full value of shots/problems/etc.

[BUD11HR]

i am a statistics guy, and those are some eye opening numbers. I need to get to work!

[Jarri]

It all depends on where your game is at...

If one takes 7 hacks to just get somewhere around the green, all the finesse in the world that gets him up and down is not going to be any use at all.

I'd say anyone who can get reasonably say within 30 yards of the green in Par-2 shots need to start working more on short game than long game

Anyone who is within 30-60 yards of the green in Par-2 should work on both equally

If you are still on the tee box after PAR-2 shots, get the hell out of the course and go get a lesson in long game.

[Ty_Webb]

If you took two players, player A and player B, where player A is Tiger Woods (first three rounds from the farmers) from outside 50 yards and me inside 50 yards and player B is me outside 50 yards and Tiger inside 50 yards, I'm betting that player A crushes player B convincingly. That despite the fact that I would rank my long game as better than my short game. Slot any one of us on here into that position and my wager would be that A beats B handsomely.

However, I do believe that it would be easier for most people to make gains by working on the short game. There is I suspect a lot more bang for the buck on the short game than the long game. Obviously that wouldn't hold true if you already had a stellar short game. It's just in my experience those are somewhat rarer than the alternative.

[JustTheTips]

Well if you have been working on something for years and not getting better, you might also want to reconsider your approach. It isn't working. [size=4]But yeah if you have never practiced it, you spend a couple of days working on it. And then have to go back to where you losing all of your strokes. Once you get to the point where your leaving all of your sand shots 3 feet from the hole, trying to improve to the point where you can hole 2/3s of them isn't going to happen.[/size]

[quote name='sonofagunn' timestamp='1359991829' post='6360341']
[quote name='JustTheTips' timestamp='1359991185' post='6360261']
Again keep it simple. Look at your game and see where you are losing shots. Don't depend on some generic internet posting to tell you what to practice.
[/quote]

... you also have to consider effort needed to improve. You may be losing a lot of strokes with your driver, and only 1 or 2 strokes in bunker play, but if you've been working on your driver for years without improvement, it may be difficult to gain a stroke or two there, whereas a week or two in the practice bunker might get you those 1 or 2 strokes pretty easily.
[/quote]

[8thehardway]

Another great article Dennis. When I retired and could work on my game I focused improving off 38 putts rather than 200 yard drives and 7 GIRs; I 'd practice before and after a round, in the back yard, and at a local mini, where I met some nice people and eventually found my foursome. They all out drive me, but I'm down to 28 putts so I'm in the mix, and there's always another set of tees to explore if I can't add some length.

[poizster]

A good discussion. This past year I focused more on ball striking then I ever had before, I wanted to hit an extra 1-2 greens a round and I put the work in to accomplish this. However during this process my short game wasn't as sharp as it was in years past. This year my scrambling was 46.1% where as two years ago it was 51%. Now, I'm not sure what a 5% difference in scrambling equates to in strokes but my GIR went from 62% to 69.4% and my scoring average fell 1.5 strokes.

Basically were looking at:

Year 1: GIR: 62% Scrambling: 51% Scoring Average: 73.3
Year 2: GIR: 69.4% Scrambling: 46.1% Scoring Average: 71.8

[attachment=1522539:2012stats.png]

[Dixie Flatline]

[quote name='poizster' timestamp='1360049930' post='6365731']
A good discussion. This past year I focused more on ball striking then I ever had before, I wanted to hit an extra 1-2 greens a round and I put the work in to accomplish this. However during this process my short game wasn't as sharp as it was in years past. This year my scrambling was 46.1% where as two years ago it was 51%. Now, I'm not sure what a 5% difference in scrambling equates to in strokes but my GIR went from 62% to 69.4% and my scoring average fell 1.5 strokes.

Basically were looking at:

Year 1: GIR: 62% Scrambling: 51% Scoring Average: 73.3
Year 2: GIR: 69.4% Scrambling: 46.1% Scoring Average: 71.8

[attachment=1522539:2012stats.png]
[/quote]

What are you using to track those stats? That's a slick looking report.

[poizster]

[quote name='Dixie Flatline' timestamp='1360093779' post='6368193']
[quote name='poizster' timestamp='1360049930' post='6365731']
A good discussion. This past year I focused more on ball striking then I ever had before, I wanted to hit an extra 1-2 greens a round and I put the work in to accomplish this. However during this process my short game wasn't as sharp as it was in years past. This year my scrambling was 46.1% where as two years ago it was 51%. Now, I'm not sure what a 5% difference in scrambling equates to in strokes but my GIR went from 62% to 69.4% and my scoring average fell 1.5 strokes.

Basically were looking at:

Year 1: GIR: 62% Scrambling: 51% Scoring Average: 73.3
Year 2: GIR: 69.4% Scrambling: 46.1% Scoring Average: 71.8

[attachment=1522539:2012stats.png]
[/quote]

What are you using to track those stats? That's a slick looking report.
[/quote]

golfshot.com

[Dennis Clark]

Just keep in mind that the other point I'm making here: what area of the game is it easier for you to improve? You can be as good as you want to be around the green. Not always so in the full swing.