If Jack Nicklaus is the best player ever why not teach his putting technique ?

[nbg352]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1368708593' post='7046132']
So you want to teach a modern athlete to contort themselves into a rounded back, hunched over position with a super short putter and a little punch stroke that's better suited for old, slow greens?
[/quote]
Funny, it seemed to work just fine on fast greens as well. 18 majors will attest to that.

[tgss]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1368717706' post='7047038']
I will speak from personal experience. I switched to that setup after Nicklaus won the Masters in 86 when I was a college freshman. I nearly won on the Web.com using that setup and played some great golf between 93-96.

At the end of 96 I went to Pelz, he changed me to a square stance and square to square stroke, got the yips from 30 feet and longer and have never been as good of a putter as I was before.

My hypothesis is Nicklaus was a left eye dominant right handed golfer (as i am) and it allowed his submissive eye to see the hole better...as it did for me...and made it easier to find the line.
[/quote]

OMG .. I call SAME...I went from Jack to Pelz and my stroke went from natural release to robotic motion. Pelz did help my short game and green reading technique and was a worthwhile experience that I don't regret. While Jacks stroke isn't for everyone I am enjoying it and putting lights out.

[hoganfan924]

Many great putters of his era were either very bent over or had their face looking straight down on top of the line (cervical spine parallel to the ground) without rightward neck tilt. This is helpful to eliminating parallax error in how you see the line. This was a common denominator of many greats of the 40's, 50's and 60's.

[tembolo1284]

holy crap this thread is cool.

[tgss]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1368718143' post='7047084']
Many great putters of his era were either very bent over or had their face looking straight down on top of the line (cervical spine parallel to the ground) without rightward neck tilt. This is helpful to eliminating parallax error in how you see the line. This was a common denominator of many greats of the 40's, 50's and 60's.
[/quote]

The 7 time reigning club champ at Olympic puts while facing the hole and says he sees the line so much better.

[tgss]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1368718510' post='7047120']
holy crap this thread is cool.
[/quote]

Thanks Tembolo...you are already have the "face" for this thread !

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='The Golf Swing Shirt' timestamp='1368718614' post='7047138']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1368718510' post='7047120']
holy crap this thread is cool.
[/quote]

Thanks Tembolo...you are already have the "face" for this thread !
[/quote]

hehe. Yes sir I do!

[QuigleyDU]

I think the transition from the classic hunched stroke that so many of the old timers used to the modern stroke that you see now. Has mainly to do with the green. jack played on greens that are todays fairways. To pro today putt on the equivalent of a kitchen table. the old stroke has to much hit to it.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1368708593' post='7046132']
So you want to teach a modern athlete to contort themselves into a rounded back, hunched over position with a super short putter and a little punch stroke that's better suited for old, slow greens?
[/quote]

Its a superior technique.
Using it on todays greens works just fine I would even go as far to say better than your current one.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1368718143' post='7047084']
Many great putters of his era were either very bent over or had their face looking straight down on top of the line (cervical spine parallel to the ground) without rightward neck tilt. This is helpful to eliminating parallax error in how you see the line. This was a common denominator of many greats of the 40's, 50's and 60's.
[/quote]

well said.

[nbg352]

[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1368721594' post='7047564']
I think the transition from the classic hunched stroke that so many of the old timers used to the modern stroke that you see now. Has mainly to do with the green. jack played on greens that are todays fairways. To pro today putt on the equivalent of a kitchen table. the old stroke has to much hit to it.
[/quote]
This has already been discussed and replied to a couple of times, had you read the rest of the thread.
Jack won 18 majors on fast greens, many of which measured around 12. Pretty quick, eh? He used the same style when he won his last in '86. On very fast grreens. His style would work as well today for many people as it did for him, yesterday.

[Lodestone]

I find Jack's technique makes me pull putts. The modern technique makes me push putts. So it just depends on which side of the hole I want to miss them on.
Actually the third sentence was irony. The first two sentences were factual.

[Cwebb]

I find that putting is very similar to shooting a basketball. There have been many of the best basketball shooters, who did not have what appeared to be "ideal form". There's just as many examples with great putters.

In these two tasks, better feel and comfort... when you know that it produces good or the best results, overrides "ideal form".

With that said, we all should try different methods at some point. The mistake is to forget about or completely discard your best "natural" way of doing it, especially when you know that it worked very well or the best

[QuigleyDU]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1368722135' post='7047624']
[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1368721594' post='7047564']
I think the transition from the classic hunched stroke that so many of the old timers used to the modern stroke that you see now. Has mainly to do with the green. jack played on greens that are todays fairways. To pro today putt on the equivalent of a kitchen table. the old stroke has to much hit to it.
[/quote]
This has already been discussed and replied to a couple of times, had you read the rest of the thread.
Jack won 18 majors on fast greens, many of which measured around 12. Pretty quick, eh? He used the same style when he won his last in '86. On very fast grreens. His style would work as well today for many people as it did for him, yesterday.
[/quote]

Well pardon the hell out of me. I appologize for contributing my opinion on the matter.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='flopper' timestamp='1368722058' post='7047616']
[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1368708593' post='7046132']
So you want to teach a modern athlete to contort themselves into a rounded back, hunched over position with a super short putter and a little punch stroke that's better suited for old, slow greens?
[/quote]

Its a superior technique.
Using it on todays greens works just fine I would even go as far to say better than your current one.
[/quote]

You always make posts like that, without backing it up at all.

[tgss]

[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1368726258' post='7048134']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1368722135' post='7047624']
[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1368721594' post='7047564']
I think the transition from the classic hunched stroke that so many of the old timers used to the modern stroke that you see now. Has mainly to do with the green. jack played on greens that are todays fairways. To pro today putt on the equivalent of a kitchen table. the old stroke has to much hit to it.
[/quote]
This has already been discussed and replied to a couple of times, had you read the rest of the thread.
Jack won 18 majors on fast greens, many of which measured around 12. Pretty quick, eh? He used the same style when he won his last in '86. On very fast grreens. His style would work as well today for many people as it did for him, yesterday.
[/quote]
Gents
All opinions and observations are welcomed and respected. I think what Quigs is saying is the older method of putting involved more hand and wrist action and on lighting greens that can be a challenge to control . Jacks stroke involved more passive hands and a piston stroke with his right elbow .
Keep the comments coming please and be nice to one another !
Cheers
Ray

Well pardon the hell out of me. I appologize for contributing my opinion on the matter.
[/quote]

[tgss]

[quote name='flopper' timestamp='1368722058' post='7047616']
[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1368708593' post='7046132']
So you want to teach a modern athlete to contort themselves into a rounded back, hunched over position with a super short putter and a little punch stroke that's better suited for old, slow greens?
[/quote]

Its a superior technique.
Using it on todays greens works just fine I would even go as far to say better than your current one.
[/quote]
It sure works for me !

[nbg352]

[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1368726258' post='7048134']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1368722135' post='7047624']
[quote name='QuigleyDU' timestamp='1368721594' post='7047564']
I think the transition from the classic hunched stroke that so many of the old timers used to the modern stroke that you see now. Has mainly to do with the green. jack played on greens that are todays fairways. To pro today putt on the equivalent of a kitchen table. the old stroke has to much hit to it.
[/quote]
This has already been discussed and replied to a couple of times, had you read the rest of the thread.
Jack won 18 majors on fast greens, many of which measured around 12. Pretty quick, eh? He used the same style when he won his last in '86. On very fast grreens. His style would work as well today for many people as it did for him, yesterday.
[/quote]

Well pardon the hell out of me. I appologize for contributing my opinion on the matter.
[/quote]
Sorry....when I jump into a thread, I read all of it before I make a comment. That way I can see if someone has already asked a question similar to one I was ready to post and if it has been satisfactorily answered, I just move on. That was my point to you. It had nothing to do with your opinion, and it was a reasonable enough opinion at that, which is probably why it had already been voiced and answered twice before.

[JPGolf FL]

Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

An 80 year old man who made everything, and is to this day the best putter I have ever seen, told me this...and forgive the colorful language, but the quote works better verbatim.

"If you can make putts by shoving the grip up you a$$ and wiggling your hips to hit the ball, that's the way you should putt."

There is a great story associated with this quote. Going to be part of a story I write for his site.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

Completely wrong. Willing it into the hole? No its called they are performing a good stroke, starting the ball on a good line with good speed, and it goes in. There's no magic. Tiger doesn't will the ball into the fairway, he makes a good swing.....

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1368734891' post='7049158']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

An 80 year old man who made everything, and is to this day the best putter I have ever seen, told me this...and forgive the colorful language, but the quote works better verbatim.

"If you can make putts by shoving the grip up you a$$ and wiggling your hips to hit the ball, that's the way you should putt."

There is a great story associated with this quote. Going to be part of a story I write for his site.
[/quote]
Lmao..... That putting method deserves a thread of its own..... I'm sure it would end up with a hogan dispute somehow.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368735167' post='7049190']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

Completely wrong. Willing it into the hole? No its called they are performing a good stroke, starting the ball on a good line with good speed, and it goes in. There's no magic. Tiger doesn't will the ball into the fairway, he makes a good swing.....
[/quote]
Easy there sport. "Completely wrong" is relative to your understanding.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368735850' post='7049258']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368735167' post='7049190']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

Completely wrong. Willing it into the hole? No its called they are performing a good stroke, starting the ball on a good line with good speed, and it goes in. There's no magic. Tiger doesn't will the ball into the fairway, he makes a good swing.....
[/quote]
Easy there sport. "Completely wrong" is relative to your understanding.
[/quote]

Sport? Completely wrong is relative? Teach me how "willing" something can change physics.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368736048' post='7049272']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368735850' post='7049258']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368735167' post='7049190']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

Completely wrong. Willing it into the hole? No its called they are performing a good stroke, starting the ball on a good line with good speed, and it goes in. There's no magic. Tiger doesn't will the ball into the fairway, he makes a good swing.....
[/quote]
Easy there sport. "Completely wrong" is relative to your understanding.
[/quote]

Sport? Completely wrong is relative? Teach me how "willing" something can change physics.
[/quote]

I hate to jump into a Bandini storm here, but I could debate that you are both correct. Will can over come poor mechanics (in the case of Tiger's swing over the years and since in quantum physics nothing exists tangibly and is never in the same place, will can have an affect on physics, especially when it comes to putting.

[tgss]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368736048' post='7049272']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368735850' post='7049258']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368735167' post='7049190']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

Completely wrong. Willing it into the hole? No its called they are performing a good stroke, starting the ball on a good line with good speed, and it goes in. There's no magic. Tiger doesn't will the ball into the fairway, he makes a good swing.....
[/quote]
Easy there sport. "Completely wrong" is relative to your understanding.
[/quote]

Sport? Completely wrong is relative? Teach me how "willing" something can change physics.
[/quote]
I think what Peacock is saying is that both Jack and Tiger are doing when they are putting their best is NOT thinking about mechanics and how to make the best text book stroke. They are glaring at the hole and letting their brain tell their body, and by extension the club, what to do. Just my humble opinion.

[QuigleyDU]

I think what peacock is getting at is that putting has a lot to do with confidence. And that is the magic. You can have a very technically sound stroke but if you cant trust your eyes, line etc. It does not matter. Just look at all the pros that have very 'technically" sound swings yet do not play well.

I could be wrong and dont want to put words where they do not belong. Yes there is no magic but there is confidence.

Well someone else said it before I could hence the edit for nbg

[nbg352]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368736048' post='7049272']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368735850' post='7049258']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368735167' post='7049190']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

Completely wrong. Willing it into the hole? No its called they are performing a good stroke, starting the ball on a good line with good speed, and it goes in. There's no magic. Tiger doesn't will the ball into the fairway, he makes a good swing.....
[/quote]
Easy there sport. "Completely wrong" is relative to your understanding.
[/quote]

Sport? Completely wrong is relative? Teach me how "willing" something can change physics.
[/quote]
What he meant is that these are sayings. Not necessarily to be taken literally. And if you didn't get it right away, you have never heard it before. So you wouldn't understand it. Just like you think being called sport is demeaning. When it's not.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368736048' post='7049272']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368735850' post='7049258']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1368735167' post='7049190']
[quote name='JPeacockGolf' timestamp='1368734539' post='7049098']
Great putting is an art, not a science. Not so much about how you hold the brush. Watch tiger or jack putting lights out on Sunday in a major win. That magic is coming from their brain, not from their stroke. It's like they are literally willing the ball into the hole. On the other hand, look at watson's loss at the British a few years back. He knew he missed that last putt before he ever hit it.
[/quote]

Completely wrong. Willing it into the hole? No its called they are performing a good stroke, starting the ball on a good line with good speed, and it goes in. There's no magic. Tiger doesn't will the ball into the fairway, he makes a good swing.....
[/quote]
Easy there sport. "Completely wrong" is relative to your understanding.
[/quote]

Sport? Completely wrong is relative? Teach me how "willing" something can change physics.
[/quote]
Not changing physics, deciding the outcome before it happens. You don't see that look in tigers eye like before but look back at 99/2001 when he obliterated the field. Tell me he didn't already know those putts were going in.

[MonteScheinblum]

Men in Black....


Jay.......All right, I'm in. 'Cause, look, there's some next level s*** goin' on around here and I'm with that. But before y'all get to beamin' me up, there's a couple of things I want you to understand. First off, you chose me, so you recognize the skills. And I don't want nobody callin' me "son" or "kid" or "sport" or nothin' like that. Cool?

Kay....whatever you say Slick