A Set For All Seasons

[Froth]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1383696034' post='8107120']
You think you have problems? You remember how much I love my Fg-17s, the website sent me and another staffer to the Titleist Performance Center in Carlsbad, CA to see the new Titleist 714 line. I was fitted with a set of AP2s to review. That means I have been playing with them for the last month or so. I hate to say this but, to say the least, I don't hate the AP2s. In fact, you can say that I love the AP2s. Not that I won't continue hitting the Fgs but I am going to play those darned Titleists too. While they aren't the classic blade I am so fond of, they are a close relative. I'll play the darned things and fell like a traitor at times, but a traitor who still loves his old friends.
[/quote]
Cheating on FG-17s with 714 AP2s?! Bah! Now, the 714 MB I could understand...they feel very nice and look pleasing at address. Still no ultra-thin razor edge topline though. Just messin with ya, hehe. I'd bet if your 17s could talk they would be saying slanderous things behind your back for going out with modern cavity back irons... To be fair, if someone was going to fit me for a full set of 714 MBs I'd game them for a few rounds before I completely lost it and had to go back to my 17s.

I had high hopes for the 712U but I'm pretty sure my FG-17 3 iron cast some sort of hex on it while I was hitting it so it wouldn't get replaced. Yeah, I'll go with that.

[teevons]

FG17 you mean these ugly NIB things??
and even uglier lh??

[Froth]

WANT. Although, that 1-iron doesn't count in the RH set, 78-80 Stamping. :P

...It's my dream to find a set 1-SW with a custom grind stamping on them NOS.

[teevons]

Going to be tough to find custom grind nib, good luck with the hunt
My dream club is a Macgregor 1622 Ben Hogan 1 iron

[Kirasdad]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1383603390' post='8101644']

I remember when I had my set of Nickent 3dx Hybrids (3-4h, 5-10i, PW). These were my first "big boy" clubs, and I thought merely putting them in my bag would instantly deliver round after round of par-busting gloriousness. Of course I used neoprene iron covers on them (full confession time). Teamed up with a Mizuno Bettinardi A-02 putter, a small-shop 60* wedge, a vintage Sandy Andy, a Wilson Staff Spine driver, and my trusty Macgregor MT (2007) 3W, I was ready to kick a** and take numbers.

Aren't hybrids great? The way they launch the ball huge distances with great trajectories? Man, I was awesome at hitting my ball with huge distance and excellent trajectory into the lagoon, into the woods, into the other fairway, basically anywhere but my fairway with them.



Heck, if I include my modern driver, my bag costs:
Driver: $20
3W, 5W: $13
Irons: $18
Wedges: $2.50
Putter $1.50

Total: $55.00. And if I pull out the modern driver, and stick my Hogan 1W in, the price drops to $42.00, [u][b]less [/b][/u]than a dozen new ProVs. For an entire bag of 14 useable clubs. Wow.


[/quote]

Inspired by Scooter, I thought I'd do my own accounting of $ outlay on my three " Sets for Whatever Season I Feel Like It Is"

My "Modern" Bag

Pinseeker Ti driver 39.00
Callaway Steelhead 5 wood 20.00
Adams 22 degree hybrid 39.00
Ping Eye 2 irons, I've had several sets, avg. cost 200.00
Macgregor FCW Classic SW 7.00
Macgregor Ironmaster putter. 2.00

Total 307.00

My Vintage Bag

Toski persimmon driver, now this is tricky, I bought these Toskis new back in the mid 80's don't remember what I paid, maybe 100.00 a club, I just don't remember, if I bought the same clubs now, of course, it would be much less. Most guys have been acquiring their vintage woods off the bay, or thrift stores, and the like. I feel this is a fairer value than my original retail price...so, let's say:

Bob Toski Persimmon Driver 10.00
Toski 3 Wood (deceased)
Toski 5 Wood. 10.00
Hogan Apex II irons 35.00
Macgregor FCW Classic SW 7.00
Macgregor Ironmaster putter 2.00

Total $ outlay 64.00 (unreal)

Hickory Bag

Wallace Driver 60.00 (a great deal from Bob Geogiade on ebay)
Roy Jackson Brassie 150.00
Robt. Forgan mid iron 40.00
Spalding Symetric 5 iron (mashie) 0.00 (given to me by my grandfather 47 years ago, this club never leaves the bag)
W.H. Webb mashie niblick 50.00
Cann and Taylor niblick 40.00
Bonnie Bee niblick 20.00
Ben Sayers Benny putter 49.00

Total 409.00

So, hickory is the cash champ, which is not surprising since I started playing hickory three years ago, which pretty much coincides with the hickory golf boom of the last few years. If I had purchased those clubs say, six or seven years ago, I'd imagine they would have been much cheaper. Blade Junkie, Bella, or Tad would know better than me, but I'm thinking that is the case.

There is, of course, no vintage "boom". Which is good for our wallets, but not for our games. There are no tournaments, or competitions, no SoHG equivalent for vintage play. Hickory has gotten so popular that I'll bet there is a tournament/event just about every week somewhere in the US, or close to it. Vintage...nothing. Riley has done his best with his site, which is terrific BTW, but aside from this forum and PGT there is little love for persimmon and blades.

I wonder why? Now that might be a thread in itself.

[HoldenCornfield]

"[color=#282828][b]There is, of course, no vintage "boom"[/b]. Which is good for our [/color][url="http://www.zappos.com/wallets"]wallets[/url][color=#282828], but not for our games. There are no tournaments, or competitions, no SoHG equivalent for [/color][color=#282828]vintage play[/color][color=#282828]. Hickory has gotten so popular that I'll bet there is a tournament/event just about every week somewhere in the US, or close to it. Vintage...nothing. Riley has done his best with his site, which is terrific BTW, but aside from this forum and PGT there is little love for persimmon and blades."[/color]

[color=#282828]I guess I jumped into the vintage at the right time. Its hard for me to believe that there will ever be another time when the demand will be so low while a decent supply yet still exists. I imagine a lot of these old clubs are going in the dumpster each year.[/color]

[profsmitty]

Guy's your killing me. What about this - 1/2 my rounds with my Fg's and 1/2 with the AP's. Can I still be in the club? Please? I'll bring the refreshments to the next meeting!

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1383748813' post='8109476']
Guy's your killing me. What about this - 1/2 my rounds with my Fg's and 1/2 with the AP's. Can I still be in the club? Please?
[/quote]

You'll get country membership.

[ScooterMcTavish]

You know, B-S admitting to playing his Eye2s, OSR playing a Mizuno combo set. Prof playing APs (Why not MB 712s if I may ask? Who had final choice over which set? Hmmmm?).

This place is going to hell.....

[Kirasdad]

...in a handcart.

Well, at least the new health care site is humming along...oh, now wait a minute,...uh, oh.

[dbuck47]

Now, now we all have our occasional "sins" which must be forgiven.

Now there is or was a Traditional Golf Society of sorts, but it appears to be a regional thing. There is a link on Persimmon Golf Today, a site which has quoted some of you.

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1383757093' post='8110168']
You know, B-S admitting to playing his Eye2s, OSR playing a Mizuno combo set. Prof playing APs (Why not MB 712s if I may ask? Who had final choice over which set? Hmmmm?).

This place is going to hell.....
[/quote]


Scooter - just get yourself some of the new Callaway Apex Pros ... lol

[oldschoolrocker]

HC,
You are correct with regard to the dumpster demise of many still highly functional vintage clubs. If one can get to them in time the reward is great, if not, well, is better not to know.

[ScooterMcTavish]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1383763392' post='8110756']
Scooter - just get yourself some of the new Callaway Apex Pros ... lol
[/quote]

Sure would be a lot of cash for something I'd take to my backyard, hammer into the ground, and allow my dogs to p*ss on.

And yes, PSG is a very nice site, but I have yet to find some kindred souls where I am. Though I may have got a business partner thinking seriously about a modern driver/vintage iron combo for play. If I stumble across the right set of irons for him, I may gift him a bag next spring.

[dbuck47]

I am seriously thinking of asking Santa for a Joe Powell PT1W or Smoker 1. The PT is 11* and 43", the Smoker 1 12* and 42.5". Or I might ask them to make the PT in 12 or put a 43" shaft on the Smoker. My DSP J1 3 wood is a nominal 15*, and I hit it pretty consistently, but would like just a scosh more distance. My DSP J1 driver and my Toney Penna Mod 59 will both give me 230-250 on a good strike, but I don't seem to be able to put a good enough strike on them consistently, maybe 1 in 5. My bad shot with either is a low 190 yard slice or a 175 yard sky high pull. I am thinking about 11.5-12 degrees in about D-3 or D-4, DG Gold S300 might be just enough extra loft with a slightly more compact head to give a little more carry and roll and make me think swing and not kill.

Around about $225 is more than we talk about spending here, but it is still a lot less than a VW on a stick.

[dbuck47]

Of course I could just try to be more consistent with my Powell DSP J1 and Toney Penna drivers. A couple of times this summer, I hit one of "those" shots with each of them, and well, you know how it feels. They were nice medium height baby draws and one
baby fade that split the middle and were right at 250. I just wish I could do it more consistently.

With the 3 and 4 woods, I am getting maybe 60-80% consistency off the tee. I get right around 200 with the 4 wood and a little more with the 3 wood.

[oldschoolrocker]

db,
I hear your frustration. And experience at times myself. I am not so sure that the answer lies in higher lofts. I know myself, that when the occasion warrants and I go to a 3 wood off the tee that I use a different swing than when I am playing the less lofted driver. The 3 wood allows, no, forces me to use an easier transition than what is my norm with the driver. And my form can suffer with the 3, more timing and hand action required, at least for me. If I pay attention to my proper swing mechanics then the driver no matter the loft turns out okay.
A big hurdle for me is switching between modern and persimmon and then expecting the persimmon to perform with my modern swing. The characteristics of how the ball reacts to each holds enough difference that I find the two cannot be performed the same with repeatably sound results. Spin rate I believe is the fly in that ointment.
I do play persimmons with varying degrees of loft. Perhaps 9 to 12 degrees and the swings for each are different for me. Also in the moderns my loft ranges from 7.5 to 12.
For me the most consistent, with regards to acceptable yardage and fairways found in either persimmon or modern is with the lower loft.
A bit of rambling but as of late I am championing the playability of lower lofts and stiffer shafts for us mortal men.
I have come to believe the transition plays by far the greatest part in the equation, much more so than swing speed.
If you are wanting to try a higher lofted modern persimmon might I suggest picking up a Louisville Smart in 12 degrees. Usually can find one on the bay from time to time at a price that will please you.

Randy

[rileyj]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1383724539' post='8108800']
There is, of course, no vintage "boom". Which is good for our wallets, but not for our games. There are no tournaments, or competitions, no SoHG equivalent for vintage play. Hickory has gotten so popular that I'll bet there is a tournament/event just about every week somewhere in the US, or close to it. Vintage...nothing. Riley has done his best with his site, which is terrific BTW, but aside from this forum and PGT there is little love for persimmon and blades.

I wonder why? Now that might be a thread in itself.
[/quote]

It's amazing how often the things I'm kicking around in my head show up on this thread. Here's another one and thank you for the compliment by the way.

A big part of the reason I started my website was because there was a time a few years ago when competitive play with classic (persimmon/blades/steel) gear seemed like it might be gaining traction. There were a couple once-a-year events in Vegas and more younger folks were getting interested. I tried to set up a place where vintage players could join groups according to their region (West Coast, South, Europe, etc.) and perhaps it might lead to regular play groups or regional tournaments. That never happened.

I think the main reason is that persimmon/blades is too new. Pros were still playing that stuff in the early 90's and anyone who was born before 1980 has probably played persimmons at some point in their lives. As such, I suspect many modern golfers would struggle to temper their expectations - they still maintain the expectations that they had when they played persimmons in the 80's OR they can't differentiate between the expectations of their modern gear and the vintage stufff. TThat makes it feel like playing a more frustrating version of the modern game. After all, with steel shaft, those vintage blades don't look all that different from modern blades - why can't you hit that 1950 pitching wedge 150 just like you modern stuff? It's the same ball. With hickory however, you have a totally different looking club. Accentuating that, most hickory players dress in period gear and carry period bags. SOHG have their own handicap system. My theory is that these factors together serve to differentiate hickory completely from the modern game so hickory golfers can feel like they are playing something completely different from modern and should therefore have completely different expectations.

Additionally, there may be some frustration from those golfers who saved and collected the famous classic models only to see the market completely fall out. 693's used to go for $500 or even more. Now it's rare for any steel shafted club to sell for more than $100. That's great for people like me who started late but others who invested a lot of money may have a bad taste in their mouths. That's just my opinion though.

The nostalgia factor plays a roll too. I find it interesting that I might be playing the same clubs that my grandfather played when I game my M85's and I know I'm playing the same set as my father when I take out the '71 Dyna's. The pros my father talks about are Hogan and Nicklaus. For many older golfers though - their fathers and grandfathers might very well have been playing hickory and the tales they tell are of Jones and the Haig.

I have hope that as new generations come up who have never even seen a wooden golf club there will be a trend towards classic (persimmon/blades/steel) as an alternative. To the younger generation this WILL feel like a different game and as mentioned, gear from the 50's - 80's can be had for pocket change. I have many friends who are 29 - 33 years old and all have been receptive to persimmon and blades despite the fact that none have played them before.

[Kirasdad]

I think the main reason is that persimmon/blades is too new. Pros were still playing that stuff in the early 90's and anyone who was born before 1980 has probably played persimmons at some point in their lives. As such, I suspect many modern golfers would struggle to temper their expectations - they still maintain the expectations that they had when they played persimmons in the 80's OR they can't differentiate between the expectations of their modern gear and the vintage stufff. TThat makes it feel like playing a more frustrating version of the modern game. After all, with steel shaft, those vintage blades don't look all that different from modern blades - why can't you hit that 1950 pitching wedge 150 just like you modern stuff? It's the same ball. With hickory however, you have a totally different looking club. Accentuating that, most hickory players dress in period gear and carry period bags. SOHG have their own handicap system. My theory is that these factors together serve to differentiate hickory completely from the modern game so hickory golfers can feel like they are playing something completely different from modern and should therefore have completely different expectations.

Great analysis, Riley. When I started playing hickory three years ago, there were several attractions. Chief among them, though, was a completely different golf experience, with completely different expectations. I played nine holes of hickory my first time out with Chris MacIntyre and his small band of SoCal hickory enthusiasts. I was loaned six clubs, a brassie, 4 irons and a putter. I shot 47, which included four pars, a couple of bogies, and a bunch on the other holes. My reaction? I was thrilled to pieces. If I would have shot that score with my regular gear from the whites, I would be upset, instead all I could think about was "I made four pars with 85 year old clubs!" It was a lot of FUN, and for the first time in a long time, score was not of paramount importance. My golf has not been the same since. I started enjoying the game a lot more. I still have, more or less, up to date gear and play in tournaments from time to time, but most of my golf these days is hickory, or persimmon and blades, and since I found a set of older blades I really like, I've put them into my modern set. This keeps me in touch with the game I grew up with, and the kind of golf that, frankly, I feel was a better game. To further buttress your overall point, because I had played a lot of hickory, when I started adding vintage persimmon/blades into the mix, it was much easier for me to adjust my expectations. My modern playing friends hit my persimmon driver and nut it, which is such a awesome feeling, but instead they complain, "it just doesn't go anywhere". It's such a huge adjustment for them. Five iron, same thing. My Apex II five iron is 30 degrees, it doesn't go 190 yards. A strong mashie on the other hand, also might be 30 degrees, but who the hell knows how far a mashie should go..."145? Sounds good to me," "Hand it over I'll give it a try."You give someone a brassie, and even though they are not that hard to hit in actuality, it LOOKS like a foreign implement with a tiny head and a funny shaft and grip, they're tickled pink to get the ball in the air. A low half heeled 175 down the middle and they're high giving each other.

Expectations and ego, the bane of enjoyable golf...or almost anything, for that matter.

[Kirasdad]

Um...that's high fiving each other. Don't you just hate it when the computer "corrects" one's prose?

[rileyj]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1383892523' post='8118278']
My Apex II five iron is 30 degrees, it doesn't go 190 yards. A strong mashie on the other hand, also might be 30 degrees, but who the hell knows how far a mashie should go..."145? Sounds good to me
[/quote]

This is another great point I didn't think about - the names of the clubs which again aid to differentiate hickory from modern.

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='rileyj' timestamp='1383896115' post='8118346']
[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1383892523' post='8118278']
My Apex II five iron is 30 degrees, it doesn't go 190 yards. A strong mashie on the other hand, also might be 30 degrees, but who the hell knows how far a mashie should go..."145? Sounds good to me
[/quote]

This is another great point I didn't think about - the names of the clubs which again aid to differentiate hickory from modern.
[/quote]

I think the opportunity to dress up like The Great Gatsby is also a factor, certainly here in UK, where we all love dressing up. The only thing that surprises me is that I have yet to see a guy turn up in drag and looking like Joyce Wethered lol.

The clothing equivalent for classic golf would either be some classic 50s/60s style like Hogan and Palmer, or maybe the 70s or 80s fashion disasters, loud shirts, tartan flared trousers and so on. The latter might actually be quite fun and there are certainly a lot of dodgy Faldo jumpers to choose from for sale on eBay UK in the vintage section . I can see prizes for "worst dressed" being awarded ...

[ScooterMcTavish]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1383908152' post='8118486']
[quote name='rileyj' timestamp='1383896115' post='8118346']
[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1383892523' post='8118278']
My Apex II five iron is 30 degrees, it doesn't go 190 yards. A strong mashie on the other hand, also might be 30 degrees, but who the hell knows how far a mashie should go..."145? Sounds good to me
[/quote]

This is another great point I didn't think about - the names of the clubs which again aid to differentiate hickory from modern.
[/quote]

I think the opportunity to dress up like The Great Gatsby is also a factor, certainly here in UK, where we all love dressing up. The only thing that surprises me is that I have yet to see a guy turn up in drag and looking like Joyce Wethered lol.

The clothing equivalent for classic golf would either be some classic 50s/60s style like Hogan and Palmer, or maybe the 70s or 80s fashion disasters, loud shirts, tartan flared trousers and so on. The latter might actually be quite fun and there are certainly a lot of dodgy Faldo jumpers to choose from for sale on eBay UK in the vintage section . I can see prizes for "worst dressed" being awarded ...
[/quote]

I actually have some lovely bell-bottomed 70s polyester pants I wear on a regular basis to league with a flat cap. My wife knows to keep her eyes open for me, and has brought me home some beauties.

[okesa]

[size=5]Camp as a row of tents......LOL[/size]

[oldschoolrocker]

Wish I still had my baby blue and white sans belt polyester bells. Quite a fashion statement with my 3 toned patent leather hard sole nails. It was soooooo hip to be cool. Lolol

Caddy Shack rules,
Or,
Caddy Shack RULES!!!

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1383917238' post='8118762']

I actually have some lovely bell-bottomed 70s polyester pants I wear on a regular basis to league with a flat cap. My wife knows to keep her eyes open for me, and has brought me home some beauties.
[/quote]
[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1383919219' post='8118876']
Wish I still had my baby blue and white sans belt polyester bells. Quite a fashion statement with my 3 toned patent leather hard sole nails. It was soooooo hip to be cool. Lolol

Caddy Shack rules,
Or,
Caddy Shack RULES!!!
[/quote]


Chaps - I think this thread now needs more photos !

[Ironmaster Oddities]

Gungula gungula

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1383908152' post='8118486'] I think the opportunity to dress up like The Great Gatsby is also a factor, certainly here in UK, where we all love dressing up. [/quote]

I'm "only" 41 - but I can remember a time, as an Ayrshire nipper, when that wasn't even considered dressing up.

There were old school dudes on my course who still played with their trousers tucked into their socks.

[okesa]

[size=5]Only problem being when she's also wearing polyester,the sparks ain't luuurve,it's static electricity![/size]

[size=5]And don't get too near the fire!!!!!!!![/size]

[MoaningM]

Very festive outfit marr is wearing there, those trousers are making me dizzy just looking at them.