Rounds with a Vintage Bag

[HoldenCornfield]

Took another evening stroll around the home course last night, still chasing that elusive par round. Lately, I've been practicing on the range probably 3 times for every round I play, and my ball striking has really improved.

Started off kinda shaky, +2 after 4 holes but I kept my head in the right place. In the past when I was just trying to break 80, my thoughts would have been along the lines of, "C'mon now, you can only lose 5 more strokes to still break 80." Now my mindset is more like, "Don't worry, you know you have some birdies coming." It's interesting how our mindset can direct our scoring. I remember back in the early 1990's when I was getting back into the game as an adult for the first time and shooting mid 90's to 100+ that I mentioned to a playing partner one day that I was just trying to make bogey on each hole. He quickly chastised me, saying "If all you're after is bogey, that's the best you're likely to get." I think he was right.

Anway, over the next 9 holes I had 8 pars and 1 birdie, and stood over an 8 footer on 13 that would get me back to level. Missed that one, though, and then had my blow-up hole on the par 5 527 yard 14th. Normally, I hit driver then a mid iron to the safety zone (lot of hazards around the green), then wedge it in. If all goes well, I have a reasonable chance at birdie. Last night, however, I skied my driver leaving me with a 3 iron to the layup area, and a less than ideal angle. I hit the three iron fairly solidly, but pushed it a little and it drifted right on me, trickling into a fairway bunker.

I only had 110 to the flag, but most of that was over an unplayable environmental area, and the sand in the bunker was fluffy. I considered blasting out sideways, and in retrospect that should have been the play. My mindset at this point should have been to play to par [i]on the hole[/i], not[i] the round[/i]. But instead, I grabbed the 9 iron and went for the green, hoping for a heroic shot and a birdie chance. Predictably, I duffed it right into the hazzard. Ended up with a double bogey. So the title of this hole would be, Mental Breakdown.

On the 15th I three putted from the fringe for bogey, and now stood +4 with three holes to play. My first thought walking off that green was, "Eh, 76 if I par out." But then I corrected myself, thinking "Hey, there's still 3 birdie opportunities left. Let's get going." And that made all the difference. I nearly birdied in, making a 12 footer on #16 for birdie, just missing a 10 footer on #17, then lucked out by canning a 20 footer on 18 for birdie.

So in the end, I shot another 74 with three birdies and three bogies, the breakdown on #14 being the deciding factor. More and more, I'm seeing that the difference between shooting par vs breaking 80 is mostly mental -- a combination of expectation levels and managing my misses. I still think that par round is just around the bend. I've shot 74 four different times this year, twice in the last two weeks, and I think I'm now comfortable being in this scoring range. I remember in the past panicking a bit when I got in position to shoot this kind of round. Now, I'm [i]expecting[/i] it. I think that's a huge difference.

One other important difference that I would be remiss in not mentioning is my wedge play of late, specifically with my Hogan Exploder. I always liked this club, since its more in line with the rest of the set -- design and weight-wise -- rather than just being a super heavy sand club like a lot of vintage sand irons seem to be. But since I had it re-chromed, and more to the point, [i]re-grooved[/i], its really been an eye opener. Especially in combination with a tour spin ball. I realize now that I've been handicapping myself somewhat with vintage wedges that lack sharp grooves.

[birly-shirly]

Well played HC! I completely understand the allure of shooting the record low round - but be sure and give yourself a pat on the back for consistent scoring in the low 70s. There's no question that if you're getting comfortable making birdies and averaging low 70s, then sooner or later standard deviation is going to deliver up a level par round. So long as you're also ready for the counterbalancing 82!

[oldschoolrocker]

BZ Kevin,
Very informative and enlightening. Sounds like you about have that par beast tamed.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1440768730' post='12223578']
One other important difference that I would be remiss in not mentioning is my wedge play of late, specifically with my Hogan Exploder. I always liked this club, since its more in line with the rest of the set -- design and weight-wise -- rather than just being a super heavy sand club like a lot of vintage sand irons seem to be. But since I had it re-chromed, and more to the point, [i]re-grooved[/i], its really been an eye opener. Especially in combination with a tour spin ball. I realize now that I've been handicapping myself somewhat with vintage wedges that lack sharp grooves.
[/quote]


I'm sorry to pick out this little point, but I feel I have to. My inner nerd bubbling to the surface.

Groove sharpness is really a minor player. When the wedge was regrooved, I'm betting they also re-sandblasted the clubface. They may have even taken out any imperfections. It's the overall face texture that's likely getting the job done.

It may also be the material integrity (for lack of a better term) of the club face; essentially how much, or little, wear is on the face. If one views a used wedge with magnification, there are a lot of little nicks in the face. When combined with the results of grooveless clubface testing, which showed a perfectly flat grooveless face spun the ball more than a standard clubface, it suggests it's the accumulation of this wear that reduces spin.


[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1440768730' post='12223578']
[color=#282828]My mindset at this point should have been to play to par [/color][i]on the hole[/i][color=#282828], not[/color][i] the round[/i][color=#282828]. But instead, I grabbed the 9 iron and went for the green, hoping for a heroic shot and a birdie chance.[/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]My friends and I have a recurring thought that touches on this subject. Essentially, even the most remote sign of hubris from the player brings the potential for swift and telling punishment from the golf gods. I can't count the number of occasions where I've said something like "I have a good round going" or even "have a chance for a personal best," only to see a drive inexplicably wind up right behind, or even up against, a tree.[/color]

[color=#282828]Great care must be taken. [/color]

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1440771602' post='12223840']
[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1440768730' post='12223578']
One other important difference that I would be remiss in not mentioning is my wedge play of late, specifically with my Hogan Exploder. I always liked this club, since its more in line with the rest of the set -- design and weight-wise -- rather than just being a super heavy sand club like a lot of vintage sand irons seem to be. But since I had it re-chromed, and more to the point, [i]re-grooved[/i], its really been an eye opener. Especially in combination with a tour spin ball. I realize now that I've been handicapping myself somewhat with vintage wedges that lack sharp grooves.
[/quote]


I'm sorry to pick out this little point, but I feel I have to. My inner nerd bubbling to the surface.

Groove sharpness is really a minor player. When the wedge was regrooved, I'm betting they also re-sandblasted the clubface. They may have even taken out any imperfections. [b]It's the overall face texture that's likely getting the job done.[/b]

It may also be the material integrity (for lack of a better term) of the club face; essentially how much, or little, wear is on the face. If one views a used wedge with magnification, there are a lot of little nicks in the face. When combined with the results of grooveless clubface testing, which showed a perfectly flat grooveless face spun the ball more than a standard clubface, it suggests it's the accumulation of this wear that reduces spin.

[/quote]

Great point, I'm glad you brought this up because I had been toying with the idea of getting one of those groove sharpeners for my other vintage wedges. So, you just saved me some $$.

[NRJyzr]

And maybe some money on golf balls, since sharp grooves cut balls.

[birly-shirly]

I've become quite partial recently to raw wedges. In most cases, probably too new to be considered vintage - but a blade is a blade, and a raw blade can be spruced up with a file, some wet and dry, and a groove sharpener.

If it's the flattening of the space between the grooves that does the trick, that's all good with me, since I don't have a CNC milling machine in the kitchen.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1440770347' post='12223726']
Well played HC! I completely understand the allure of shooting the record low round - but be sure and give yourself a pat on the back for consistent scoring in the low 70s. [b]There's no question that if you're getting comfortable making birdies[/b] and averaging low 70s, then sooner or later standard deviation is going to deliver up a level par round. So long as you're also ready for the counterbalancing 82!
[/quote]

There's also no question that to shoot par or better you have to make birdies, and I've never been one to make many, at least until recently.

The weakest parts of my game have always been 1) my putting, and 2) iron play. Both of those areas have improved greatly in the last year. The iron play through repetitions on the range, and the putting from finding a new comfort level -- equipment wise, mental approach (reduced tension), and mechanics (simple, reliable stroke) -- all three of these things seem to have worked together to enhance each other. The net result is that I'm giving myself more opportunities, and no longer freezing up when I do get a make-able birdie.

I've always considered myself a hacker -- it was just 2 1/2 years ago I shot a 99 and just about quit the game for good (until I discovered vintage golf). There always seemed to be a huge chasm between myself and those 'Real' golfers that shot scratch or better. The divide is still there, I've yet to cross it. But it looks more like manageable ditch at this point.

I'd be very interested in hearing from those members here who have bested par on their experiences and viewpoints on the matter.

[oldschoolrocker]

Well Kevin,
I can't give you any "how I broke par" advice, never have, but, like you I have been on the verge many times in my golfing life, and for me I believe it was a negative mindset that caused me to fail. Every time I consciously realized I was on track I would have a blow up, or two hole, allowing me to stay in the cocoon of my limited self expectations.
I think your positive approach with the "I can make birdies" attitude will do it for you. An interesting thing about Judy Rankin was revealed on Ferrety where she had yet to win a tourament and one day the thought popped in her mind that someone had to win, "Why not me!"
Good luck and I hope to read of your conquest soon.

[HoldenCornfield]

Thanks, OSR. We still need to get together for a round. I'll be back in Savannah in a couple weeks, will send you a pm.

[Blade Junkie]

Good stuff HC ! Keep making good swings and rolling those putts ...

[oldschoolrocker]

Hopefully we can get together. I fly out tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be any complications and it will be a short trip. Let me know and if I am in town I will drive down for a round.

[stevemcgee99]

It's awesome to read about the rounds, Kevin. Gives me hope, especially when you add the context that 2.5 years ago it was a totally different story.

I'm curious about your putting. Did you happen to go with a heavier, heel-shafted head and adopt a golf swing style?

I'm knocking it like Aoki (and plenty of others - just watch SWWOG from the good 'ol days on YouTube) and that's working for me.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='stevemcgee99' timestamp='1440911635' post='12233042']
I'm curious about your putting. Did you happen to go with a heavier, heel-shafted head and adopt a golf swing style?

[/quote]

No, tried that but couldn't get the hang of it. What I've found that works for me is a shorter putter (32-33") with a rounded sole that lets me keep my eyes over the ball and hang the putter straight down. I keep my left wrist locked at 90* and use just the last three fingers of the right hand to grip, leaving the pincer fingers off. All this helps keep the tension out of my stroke.

But putting is so individual and idiosyncratic it's just a matter of trial and error. I'm just glad I've found something that works for me (for now, anyway!). Having a good putting game, and the confidence that comes with it is a tremendous help.

[freddiec]

This week I had the opportunity to play a really fantastic Historic private Links course in my home state of Massachusetts. Kittansett Golf club has been ranked in the past in the top 100. The experience I had this week playing it was one I won't forget. I bagged one of my favorite Wood Bros 9 Degree drivers, which I hit very well. I pulled it out on 4 great driving holes and it it very well a few times. I have not played much this year, so my expectations were low and I was very happy with my play. I took some great shots of Kittansett. We were lucky to play it on a calm , warm, sunny day. When the wind blows on this course, its not fun..[attachment=2933000:Kit_18th_sm.jpg]
18 Green looking back towards the fairway.
[attachment=2933006:Kittansett_17g_sm.jpg]
17th Green
[attachment=2933016:Kit_no17tee_s.jpg]
16th hole, a great par 5 that goes right to the ocean.[attachment=2933218:Kitt_beachPar3sm.jpg]
[attachment=2933220:Kitt_beachPar3.jpg]

[attachment=2933222:Kitt_beachPar3_2.jpg]
Par 3 3rd, all over the Ocean and small beach. This was low tide.[attachment=2933224:Kitt_Tim_par3.jpg]
My friend Tim on the par 3 Ocean hole from behind the green looking, you can see the tee in the distance over the ocean

[Ironmaster Oddities]

Beautiful Freddie

[Kirasdad]

[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1440773844' post='12224042']
[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1440770347' post='12223726']
Well played HC! I completely understand the allure of shooting the record low round - but be sure and give yourself a pat on the back for consistent scoring in the low 70s. [b]There's no question that if you're getting comfortable making birdies[/b] and averaging low 70s, then sooner or later standard deviation is going to deliver up a level par round. So long as you're also ready for the counterbalancing 82!
[/quote]

There's also no question that to shoot par or better you have to make birdies, and I've never been one to make many, at least until recently.

The weakest parts of my game have always been 1) my putting, and 2) iron play. Both of those areas have improved greatly in the last year. The iron play through repetitions on the range, and the putting from finding a new comfort level -- equipment wise, mental approach (reduced tension), and mechanics (simple, reliable stroke) -- all three of these things seem to have worked together to enhance each other. The net result is that I'm giving myself more opportunities, and no longer freezing up when I do get a make-able birdie.

I've always considered myself a hacker -- it was just 2 1/2 years ago I shot a 99 and just about quit the game for good (until I discovered vintage golf). There always seemed to be a huge chasm between myself and those 'Real' golfers that shot scratch or better. The divide is still there, I've yet to cross it. But it looks more like manageable ditch at this point.

I'd be very interested in hearing from those members here who have bested par on their experiences and viewpoints on the matter.
[/quote]

I have broken par four times: 68,69,70, 71. Also shot par several times can't remember how many exactly, not that many, a few. Now, of course, it's a different story, with Kira coming to us almost 12 years ago, I don't play as much and my scores reflect this. I can still get it going occasionally, but just a few holes, or a good nine. I can't seem to put 18 together these days. Rarely break 80. Playing hickory most of the time so that has something to do with it as well. Tim (teevons) is helping me revamp my set, new shafts in some, getting lengths and swing weights in line, so I have hopes there that these adjustments might help my consistency. As far as breaking par (or shooting par) is concerned, the only thing I can say with any surety is that those rounds seem to have come out of nowhere. All of the under par rounds were at least 15 years and more ago. I was single, playing a lot of golf, but not concerning myself with shooting par or a "career round" or anything like that. It just happened. The 68 was at my home course in Illinios. The course I grew up on, that I know as well as any piece of ground I have ever walked, also two chip ins in that round. That certainly saves some strokes. I, like you Kevin, have a weakness in my iron play. I usually hit a ton of fairways, not as many greens as I should, so, at least with me, the putter has to be en fuego to go low. I am just not going to hit 14/15 greens. I guess as I write this post, the key thought I have is: try to keep expectations out of it and resist the "I have a chance to" thinking. I don't think I was thinking that much on those days except maybe coming down 17 or 18 and somehow I managed to not eff things up.
Good luck with your quest. I think it will happen, probably when you least expect it.

P.S. I think my qualifications to write this post are a bit dubious since some of our fellow travelers,I am sure, have broken par many more times than me. Moaning M for instance I think may have an under par round for each of his various sets, as well as JonnyG, Big Stu and Tim, who I have seen in play in person. Tim can play and especially putt with anyone. However, Kevin, you and I, may have similar games, as well as kids coming along a little later in the game than most, so I thought I would weigh in. I hope others do as well.

[rex235]

Freddie-

Thanks for the views...

Any photos of the par-3?

[freddiec]

Rex, I just added the Par 3 pic to my post above. It was spectacular. Wish I could hit my 5 iron shot over...



HoldenC, I've broke par twice, both times on the same course (Pinehills Nicklaus course). Par 72, shot 71 and 69 from the white tees (6500 yds). This was about 8 years ago when I was playing a lot. Those rounds I expected to play very well, confidence was high and at the time I was in such great control of my shots, mind clear and in the right zone.

[rex235]

Freddie-

Perfect!

Thanks for the photos....

The par 3 3rd hole remains a premier example of the "one shotter".

You can guess some of the others.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1440771602' post='12223840']
[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1440768730' post='12223578']
One other important difference that I would be remiss in not mentioning is my wedge play of late, specifically with my Hogan Exploder. I always liked this club, since its more in line with the rest of the set -- design and weight-wise -- rather than just being a super heavy sand club like a lot of vintage sand irons seem to be. But since I had it re-chromed, and more to the point, [i]re-grooved[/i], its really been an eye opener. Especially in combination with a tour spin ball. I realize now that I've been handicapping myself somewhat with vintage wedges that lack sharp grooves.
[/quote]


I'm sorry to pick out this little point, but I feel I have to. My inner nerd bubbling to the surface.

Groove sharpness is really a minor player. When the wedge was regrooved, I'm betting they also re-sandblasted the clubface. They may have even taken out any imperfections. It's the overall face texture that's likely getting the job done.

It may also be the material integrity (for lack of a better term) of the club face; essentially how much, or little, wear is on the face. If one views a used wedge with magnification, there are a lot of little nicks in the face. When combined with the results of grooveless clubface testing, which showed a perfectly flat grooveless face spun the ball more than a standard clubface, it suggests it's the accumulation of this wear that reduces spin.


[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1440768730' post='12223578']
[color=#282828]My mindset at this point should have been to play to par [/color][i]on the hole[/i][color=#282828], not[/color][i] the round[/i][color=#282828]. But instead, I grabbed the 9 iron and went for the green, hoping for a heroic shot and a birdie chance.[/quote] It is possible to spin a ball off of a worn out face especially a 60* I did not believe it until I did it with a worn out concave faced 588 Cleveland that my friend played and I mean played for over 20 years[/color]

[color=#282828]My friends and I have a recurring thought that touches on this subject. Essentially, even the most remote sign of hubris from the player brings the potential for swift and telling punishment from the golf gods. I can't count the number of occasions where I've said something like "I have a good round going" or even "have a chance for a personal best," only to see a drive inexplicably wind up right behind, or even up against, a tree.[/color]

[color=#282828]Great care must be taken. [/color]
[/quote]

[ScooterMcTavish]

Shooting Par = Magic Rainbow Unicorn

Shot 1 over par on a few 9's, though best round for a full 18 was +5. Just don't golf enough to have the level of consistency needed. Plus, we get covered in ice and snow for roughly 5-6 months a year, and the course is in poor shape for at least two of the others.

Funny mentality is mentioned - I golf differently when I'm chasing birdies, and my best rounds have been when I'm thinking "birdie" not "par".

My worst rounds have also been when pressing for birdies. The old risk/reward conundrum.

Funny enough, one of my best 9s was 8 pars and 1 bogey. No birdies there.....

[HoganApexBlades]

Scott - good to hear from you, hope all is well!

Nothing wrong with 8 pars out of 9 holes...you were in the zone!

[scomac2002]

[quote name='HoganApexBlades' timestamp='1441319028' post='12259612']
Nothing wrong with 8 pars out of 9 holes...you were in the zone!
[/quote]

Agreed. My best round included that exact back nine. I've never been on a run like that before or since!

[ScooterMcTavish]

Thank you gentlemen. Nice to see you too Alan. Been a busy summer, filled with lots of friends and family, and less golf. But as I stated in the spring, I wanted to golf less and enjoy it more, and I think I'm accomplishing that. With less golf comes lowered expectations, and to me, that has returned a lot of fun to the game.

As we know, this game can become obsessive, and chasing par was a particular obsession of mine. Since I think par is out of reach with the current state of my game, I'm completely happy finding the beauty in an individual shot, be it a solid fairway wood, or a smooth, silky putt. Odd when I look at my golf spending too - other than the early season club buy, I've spent nothing on clubs. I've picked up a few dozen golf balls in spring, and nothing since. And my current green fee bill (including taxes) leaves me roughly $380 ahead of how much I spent last year, just for membership, cart storage, and men's league fees. Since I quit drinking, I'm probably also about $500 ahead on the old beer bill too.

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1441376259' post='12262686']
Since I quit drinking, I'm probably also about $500 ahead on the old beer bill too.
[/quote]

In that case Scott, send some of your stash of Molson & Labatt Bleue down this way!

[attachment=2939848:Molson.jpeg]

[ScooterMcTavish]

LOL Alan,

In fact, I am partial to all of the wonderful different brews that Sam Adams makes. Their Summer Ale was a personal favorite, as was their Oktoberfest Ale. New Belgium also makes a great beer with Fat Tire. Great craft brewing in the US.

[Fellaheen51]

Nice beer stash Alan! I'm quite partial to IPA's these days. The usual suspects for me are Bell's Two Hearted and Founder's Centennial. However, they can be a bit much on these hot summer days. My current fav is Founder's All Day IPA. Moderate alcohol, citrusy overtones, refreshing without being overwhelming as some IPA's can be.

Wish I could find 3 Floyds Zombie Dust here in MI. One of the best beers I ever had, and a APA to boot. When I'm in a pale ale mood, usually just go Sierra Nevada. Always reliably refreshing. And Porter / Stout season is rapidly approaching (sigh!). Let's just say there are many good ones, but Founder's Breakfast Stout is top notch. When all else fails, give me a plain ole' Labatt Blue.

So after my recent "Round with a Vintage Bag", although not quite vintage, the 19th hole had All-Day IPA on tap. Since it was around 90* that day, they tasted marvelous. I had several. Very fortunate here in Michigan. We have numerous craft breweries that are brewing world class beers.

Things were simpler and my pocketbook less empty when the only beer I would buy was Bud. Now, can hardly drink one. Sorry about the thread jack, but someone mentioned beer.

[stevemcgee99]

Played at Sharp Park yesterday. Didn't do well at all, but did have a couple shots I was happy with. Not much confidence on the super-hard-packed tight lies with my irons.

A father/son pair played through us, him using some very sweet Spaulding woods. Nails it down the center of a dogleg setting up for a great second shot. Sounded awesome.

All-in-all a great day at the beach (behind a wall). Regardless of the scorched earth conditions and temporary greens (had some great putts lol).

[birly-shirly]

Harvey Penick wrote in his book that this is what tends to happen - but I'm still surprised (in the most pleasant way) that it seems to be happening to me.

HP said that improved scores don't happen gradually, they come in fits and starts. As one or other part of your game improves, whole chunks of strokes get trimmed from your average round as you learn to stay out of the right rough, get out of bunkers, or hole 4 foot putts.

Since getting down to a handicap of 10 as a junior before all sorts of adult pursuits got in the way, all I've really wanted to do in golf is play to a solid single digit index. Almost certainly linked to the claim Hogan made in 5 Lessons, that a fundamentally sound swing should have the average player scoring regularly in the 70s.

Well, even though I understand the retaliation from the golfing gods that is likely to be promptly visited upon me for such hubris, I'm cautiously tempted to claim that I may have made the breakthrough.

Since getting back from the family (non-golfing) holiday in July - I've turned in a succession of scores between 73 and 78 and nothing higher. That's covered social games, a handful of club competitions off the back, games away from home, Apex IIs, Redlines, MTs, persimmon and for the club competitions, a white-washed biscuit tin.

Happy days, to be able to honestly report that I've never had the golfing so good. Getting there with a bag that's more or less full of classic clubs has added considerably to the fun. I don't play with or see hardly anyone on the course who shares the enthusiasm we have here for all things elegant, intractable and apt to sting a bit. This place is the best for encouraging ordinary golfers that we're not over-reaching when we put classic clubs in the bag, nor are we conceding hopes of improving our game where it counts - above the grip.

There is a whole slew of articles on the main part of this site with the subliminal (and sometimes not so subliminal) thesis - "You're doing yourself a grave disservice trying to play with anything more than 8 months old." If you believed everything you read, there are cheeses available with more staying power than modern golf clubs. I love it that the fifth column is alive and kicking here.