Art Emerson master grinder

[majic]

I had a set of MacGregors done in 1980 at Albany by Art. He taught Don White. If you have found a set of customs from this time frame they could be done by him as i know he came back to MacGregor from Penna around 1979 and then quickly took Don under his wing to teach him. This is my set, I always like the MT so I had that stamped on them. He did 2-PW and 2 SW. They have influenced my work over the years. Tad

[xgolfx]

[attachment=1990423:cp 70.jpg] art emerson example

CHARLEY PENNA

[teevons]

Very cool looking head, looks like a combination of top and second to top in my picture of a couple of Custom Macgregor head

[rex235]

This was the gist of the conversation I had in April with George Peters, owner of the Classic Collection of LH clubs from 1930-1977..

Since there were documented irons from MacGregor that were done by Art Emerson (as Charley and Tad have shown)
were there any LH MacGregor custom iron sets that were done by him?

Did Art Emerson work on RH clubs exclusively, such as those for the MacGregor staff, and PGA/LPGA Tour members?
Jackie Burke? Bob Toski? Louise Suggs?
Were those irons with the Toney Penna "TP" stamp among those?

Some of the MacGregor LH iron sets from the late 1940s and 50's in George's collection do NOT look like others.
As Ironmaster Bob, Teevons Tim, and Charley have shown me, more than a few items MacGregor did for players never wound up in the Kaplan catalog....

[teevons]

The Kaplan Catalog is very limited , it just shows what catalogs Kaplan was able to copy. I have several catalogs of the Custom clubs you could order, too bad he did not include that in his books

[astamm8]

The story that got published is that Art came back and Don started (in his polka dot shirt) on the same day in 1971, when Mac was moving to Albany.

"MacGregor wooed Emerson back from Penna’s shop in 1971 to open a custom-design department in Albany. Upon his return to the company, Emerson sat in the lobby filling out paperwork with another new hire, a 20-year-old dressed in a polka-dot shirt who didn’t know a golf club from a hood ornament. Emerson quickly recognized that the young man had a gift, a touch that couldn’t be taught. Emerson embraced “polka dot” as his apprentice, staying after hours to pass along all that he knew. The pupil soon surpassed the teacher."

http://golfweek.com/news/2009/dec/14/macgregor-demise-american-classic/?print

I'm pretty familiar with Don's "fingerprints," but I'd love to see Art's work in hand to get a sense of it>

Tad, I think I remember you mentioning Art with the lead hammer bending away at the clubs. I've seen Don do that, and it's incredible. Did your set start as a flatback and you chose a "Muirfield" type muscle? Or did the blank already have the muscle?

[astamm8]

That article also mentions even older club polishers like Will Sime, John Huggins, and Ernest Airy. I've never heard much about any of them, but I did find this.

"People like John Huggins of MacGregor were craftsmen, and touring pros could look at a set of clubs and tell you if it had a Huggins grind."

http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1092805/1/index.htm

Will Sime's name appears on some BAP woods, so maybe he did woods?

Is anyone familiar with them/their work? Charley?

[xgolfx]

Wedges by emerson
[attachment=1990493:image.jpg]

CHARLEY PENNA

[teevons]

Has anyone ever seen or have any pictures of the Limited Edition Macgregors clubs David Graham used in 81 to win the US open??

[teevons]

David graham and VIP prototype article[url="http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Jack_Nicklaus_ever_use_the_Macgregor_VIP_irons"]http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Jack_Nicklaus_ever_use_the_Macgregor_VIP_irons[/url]

[rex235]

[quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1387412181' post='8320543']
That article also mentions even older club polishers like Will Sime, John Huggins, and Ernest Airy. I've never heard much about any of them, but I did find this.

"People like John Huggins of MacGregor were craftsmen, and touring pros could look at a set of clubs and tell you if it had a Huggins grind."

[url="http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1092805/1/index.htm"]http://si.com/vault/...805/1/index.htm[/url]

Will Sime's name appears on some BAP woods, so maybe he did woods?

Is anyone familiar with them/their work? Charley?
[/quote]

Astamm-

Oh, Will Sime did much more that just woods....the designer of the BAP series was also a golf course designer as well.

George Peters started collecting clubs for his LH collection in the late '60s. I have shared his thread with Will Simes daughter and granddaughter with Ironmaster Bob. One of George's prized sets is the MacGregor LH "Will Sime BAP 2" woods.

Also, as Charley and I have discussed, though part of the actual design, there were very few LH blanks which included the "MT" wingback, 985, or muscleback into the 10 iron, and though present in the RH designs NONE (muscleback, wingback, 985, diamond back) made it to the LH MacGregor Sand Irons.

[majic]

In the early 90's when Danny Edwards brought out his Royal Grips I was out on tour with Maxfli and i knew David. David would get me to go to the True Temper van and regrip his clubs. David had me cut the butt off the end of the rubber grip and after installing the grip i would put the Plastic cap with the expander plug into the end of the clubs. We used these on the Lamkin slip on leather putter grips and play grips. He said he wanted to feel the impact of the ball and this is the only way to get the feel up the shaft to his hands. His clubs also by the way made a different sound in his bag. Not quite like Jacks but different. David has forgot more then todays so called "designers" know. Tad

[rex235]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1387422359' post='8321247']
In the early 90's when Danny Edwards brought out his Royal Grips I was out on tour with Maxfli and i knew David. David would get me to go to the True Temper van and regrip his clubs. David had me cut the butt off the end of the rubber grip and after installing the grip i would put the Plastic cap with the expander plug into the end of the clubs. We used these on the Lamkin slip on leather putter grips and play grips. He said he wanted to feel the impact of the ball and this is the only way to get the feel up the shaft to his hands. His clubs also by the way made a different sound in his bag. Not quite like Jacks but different. David has forgot more then todays so called "designers" know. Tad
[/quote]
Tad-
+1 on David Graham.
As Tom Weiskopf stated in that MacGregor piece, David Graham could "bend your clubs in a doorjamb"
Wish I could get a hold of those '63 Dunlop "Stainless Forged in Scotland" signature irons 2-10, of Sir Bob Charles.

[xgolfx]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1387419233' post='8321023']
[quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1387412181' post='8320543']
That article also mentions even older club polishers like Will Sime, John Huggins, and Ernest Airy. I've never heard much about any of them, but I did find this.

"People like John Huggins of MacGregor were craftsmen, and touring pros could look at a set of clubs and tell you if it had a Huggins grind."

[url="http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1092805/1/index.htm"]http://si.com/vault/...805/1/index.htm[/url]

Will Sime's name appears on some BAP woods, so maybe he did woods?

Is anyone familiar with them/their work? Charley?
[/quote]

Astamm-

Oh, Will Sime did much more that just woods....the designer of the BAP series was also a golf course designer as well.

George Peters started collecting clubs for his LH collection in the late '60s. I have shared his thread with Will Simes daughter and granddaughter with Ironmaster Bob. One of George's prized sets is the MacGregor LH "Will Sime BAP 2" woods.

Also, as Charley and I have discussed, though part of the actual design, there were very few LH blanks which included the "MT" wingback, 985, or muscleback into the 10 iron, and though present in the RH designs NONE (muscleback, wingback, 985, diamond back) made it to the LH MacGregor Sand Irons

I just saw this for lefty wedge

CHARLEY PENNA

.[attachment=1993833:lefty wedge.jpg]







[/quote]

[okesa]

[size=5]From the spare room.....[/size]

[rex235]

Charley-

Thanks again for sharing your Uncle Toney's designs.....

Have shared most of my LH MacGregor Sand Iron photos on a different thread-
it includes the Winged MT "Colokrom" Sand Iron.
As we stated already, only wished the MT Wingback series sand irons matched the RH ones.

George has the "MT", "DX", the Big "M", the "FC 4000", and a number of MacGregor iron sets, including some Sand Irons.
Unfortunately, no LH TP Expediters....

Am looking at finishing the LH club documentation very soon.

[okesa]

[size=5]There's an interesting and sad read here;[/size]

[size=5][url="http://golfweek.com/news/2009/dec/14/macgregor-demise-american-classic/"]http://golfweek.com/news/2009/dec/14/macgregor-demise-american-classic/[/url][/size]

[majic]

In its last years the company was never in the right hands. I had hoped that Norman would not be in a rush and try to build back its business that had been vacated to Mizuno as the premium forged players club. I honestly think he could have done it but like a lot of things the best financial situation was to close it. He had joined forces with MacGregor in the first place because although his clothing line was good he did not have distributors around the Globe like MacGregor and that instantly gave him outlets for the Norman products. Clever of him.
It leaves us to have to settle for what others bring to the market and also to have our enjoyment of the older irons. Many play just as good as todays clubs for most of us. Tad

[astamm8]

I found some nice info on Will Sime.

[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]By 1910, MacGregor was recognized as the preeminent manufacturer of wood[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]clubs. The reputation was further enhanced when Will Sime was hired, in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]1912. A Scot who had made clubs for Harry Vardon, J.H. Taylor and James[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]Braid (the famed British Triumvirate of champions), Sime was [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]signed on as MacGregor's chief club designer. He may have been the first[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]in the industry to ever hold that specific title. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3] [/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]The shape of wood heads for almost as long as golf had been played was[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]long-nosed. They looked much like a hockey stick, not surprising in that[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]the origins of the game have been traced to a form of hockey played by[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]the Dutch. This shape, called "long nose," was gradually being[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]transformed, and Sime completed the transition with a shape inspired by the shape of a biscuit his mother baked, called a bap, which was blocky in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]configuration. The idea behind Sime's MacGregor "Bap" driver and brassie[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]was that a more compact head could deliver a more solid and powerful[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]blow. The "Bap" was introduced in 1921, and proved extremely successful.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]For 15 years it was the best selling wood in the MacGregor line, and[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]owing to this success the rest of industry developed similarly shaped[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]heads. The MacGregor "Bap" effectively revised the basic design of the[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]wooden clubhead.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

http://www.ohiojuniorworld.org/Home-MVGolf/People/Historical/MacGregor-in-Our-Area-3374.html

[xgolfx]

[quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1389373037' post='8435449']
I found some nice info on Will Sime.

[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]By 1910, MacGregor was recognized as the preeminent manufacturer of wood[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]clubs. The reputation was further enhanced when Will Sime was hired, in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]1912. A Scot who had made clubs for Harry Vardon, J.H. Taylor and James[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]Braid (the famed British Triumvirate of champions), Sime was [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]signed on as MacGregor's chief club designer. He may have been the first[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]in the industry to ever hold that specific title. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3] [/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]The shape of wood heads for almost as long as golf had been played was[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]long-nosed. They looked much like a hockey stick, not surprising in that[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]the origins of the game have been traced to a form of hockey played by[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]the Dutch. This shape, called "long nose," was gradually being[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]transformed, and Sime completed the transition with a shape inspired by the shape of a biscuit his mother baked, called a bap, which was blocky in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]configuration. The idea behind Sime's MacGregor "Bap" driver and brassie[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]was that a more compact head could deliver a more solid and powerful[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]blow. The "Bap" was introduced in 1921, and proved extremely successful.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]For 15 years it was the best selling wood in the MacGregor line, and[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]owing to this success the rest of industry developed similarly shaped[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]heads. The MacGregor "Bap" effectively revised the basic design of the[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]wooden clubhead.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

http://www.ohiojuniorworld.org/Home-MVGolf/People/Historical/MacGregor-in-Our-Area-3374.html
[/quote][quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1389373037' post='8435449']
I found some nice info on Will Sime.

[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]By 1910, MacGregor was recognized as the preeminent manufacturer of wood[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]clubs. The reputation was further enhanced when Will Sime was hired, in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]1912. A Scot who had made clubs for Harry Vardon, J.H. Taylor and James[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]Braid (the famed British Triumvirate of champions), Sime was [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]signed on as MacGregor's chief club designer. He may have been the first[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]in the industry to ever hold that specific title. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3] [/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]The shape of wood heads for almost as long as golf had been played was[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]long-nosed. They looked much like a hockey stick, not surprising in that[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]the origins of the game have been traced to a form of hockey played by[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]the Dutch. This shape, called "long nose," was gradually being[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]transformed, and Sime completed the transition with a shape inspired by the shape of a biscuit his mother baked, called a bap, which was blocky in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]configuration. The idea behind Sime's MacGregor "Bap" driver and brassie[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]was that a more compact head could deliver a more solid and powerful[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]blow. The "Bap" was introduced in 1921, and proved extremely successful.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]For 15 years it was the best selling wood in the MacGregor line, and[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]owing to this success the rest of industry developed similarly shaped[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]heads. The MacGregor "Bap" effectively revised the basic design of the[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size="4"][color="#000000"][size=3][size="4"][size=3][size="4"][size=3]wooden clubhead.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

http://www.ohiojuniorworld.org/Home-MVGolf/People/Historical/MacGregor-in-Our-Area-3374.html
[/quote]

This is the best story of the MacGregor history to date in my opinion. There are a few facts I could add, such as the importance of Bob Lysaght, engineer and plant manager. He was the buffer between Toney Penna and the number crunchers. It also omits Gene Troy, who signed Nicklaus, and passed on Arnold Palmer.

CHARLEY PENNA

[Texsport]

[quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1387411524' post='8320501']
The story that got published is that Art came back and Don started (in his polka dot shirt) on the same day in 1971, when Mac was moving to Albany.

"MacGregor wooed Emerson back from Penna’s shop in 1971 to open a custom-design department in Albany. Upon his return to the company, Emerson sat in the lobby filling out paperwork with another new hire, a 20-year-old dressed in a polka-dot shirt who didn’t know a golf club from a hood ornament. Emerson quickly recognized that the young man had a gift, a touch that couldn’t be taught. Emerson embraced “polka dot” as his apprentice, staying after hours to pass along all that he knew. The pupil soon surpassed the teacher."

http://golfweek.com/news/2009/dec/14/macgregor-demise-american-classic/?print

I'm pretty familiar with Don's "fingerprints," but I'd love to see Art's work in hand to get a sense of it>

Tad, I think I remember you mentioning Art with the lead hammer bending away at the clubs. I've seen Don do that, and it's incredible. Did your set start as a flatback and you chose a "Muirfield" type muscle? Or did the blank already have the muscle?
[/quote]



http://golfweek.com/news/2009/dec/14/macgregor-demise-american-classic/?print

I remember when this short history of MacGregor was published because Dave Wood was a big contributor.

He furnished a lot of the photos (see credit on 1st photo) and was looking for some pristine MacGregor woods to photograph for the article. Dave called a couple of his old customers who he knew were MacGregor collectors from the 80s. I spoke to Adam Schupak, the author, about supplying some clubs, but his deadline was approaching and decided to just go with what Dave had in his files.

So Dave Wood, of Wood Bros and later MacGregor fame, knows quite a lot about MacGregor history.

I know Dave left MacGregor because the owner wanted to concentrate of game improvement clubs and big box store accounts, while deemphasizing the classic clubs.


Texsport

[golfluvzme]

[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1387414331' post='8320703']
Has anyone ever seen or have any pictures of the Limited Edition Macgregors clubs David Graham used in 81 to win the US open??
[/quote]
I saw this post and immediately recalled a visit to a great golf gentleman, here in Phoenix, RJ. I was answering an ad that RJ had run, selling what he had left of a bulk of shafts acquired when Acushnet purchased the Bullseye Putter Company and moved it to SoCal. That stash of shafts is good for another post, some day.
When I arrived, RJ (age 83 at the time) was on his knees cutting the weeds along his walkway that lead to his front door. He quickly stood and greeted me as if we were old friends. I immediately felt welcome and by the time we had made it inside his home and into his shop/garage, he had shared stories with me that I will cherish for a long time.
Upon entering his garage, I noticed a sweet set of blades on a rack, sort of off to the side. When I inquired as to their story, he shared that David Graham was a long time friend and that he had done a ton of work for David on drivers, fairway woods and irons, over the years. In return for his repeated service, David Graham had given him the actual set of irons that he had used to win the 1979 PGA Championship. They were forged by MacGregor and the only markings were "David Graham" in script on the back of the blade, very small. It was one of the most beautiful sets of irons I have had the pleasure of holding in my hands. Not sure if they are still in his possession, but I know that there are a few guys locally that know of their whereabouts and would give their right arm to have them in their collections.
Not sure if this is the set you referenced, but I hope that I have not just bored you to tears with my brief walk down memory lane.
LaMont in Az

[Texsport]

I have a set of muscle back irons made for tour pro George Burns from the late 70s I believe. I believe he was a MacGregor contract player at the time.

The clubs look like Mr Moore's MTs above, but have GEORGE BURNS stamped across the muscle in back.

Could they have been ground by Art Emerson?

Texsport

[rex235]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1389389786' post='8437505']
[quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1389373037' post='8435449']
I found some nice info on Will Sime.

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]By 1910, MacGregor was recognized as the preeminent manufacturer of wood[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]clubs. The reputation was further enhanced when Will Sime was hired, in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]1912. A Scot who had made clubs for Harry Vardon, J.H. Taylor and James[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]Braid (the famed British Triumvirate of champions), Sime was [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]signed on as MacGregor's chief club designer. He may have been the first[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]in the industry to ever hold that specific title. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]The shape of wood heads for almost as long as golf had been played was[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]long-nosed. They looked much like a hockey stick, not surprising in that[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the origins of the game have been traced to a form of hockey played by[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the Dutch. This shape, called "long nose," was gradually being[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]transformed, and Sime completed the transition with a shape inspired by the shape of a biscuit his mother baked, called a bap, which was blocky in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]configuration. The idea behind Sime's MacGregor "Bap" driver and brassie[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]was that a more compact head could deliver a more solid and powerful[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]blow. The "Bap" was introduced in 1921, and proved extremely successful.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]For 15 years it was the best selling wood in the MacGregor line, and[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]owing to this success the rest of industry developed similarly shaped[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]heads. The MacGregor "Bap" effectively revised the basic design of the[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]wooden clubhead.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[url="http://www.ohiojuniorworld.org/Home-MVGolf/People/Historical/MacGregor-in-Our-Area-3374.html"]http://www.ohiojunio...-Area-3374.html[/url]
[/quote][quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1389373037' post='8435449']
I found some nice info on Will Sime.

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]By 1910, MacGregor was recognized as the preeminent manufacturer of wood[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]clubs. The reputation was further enhanced when Will Sime was hired, in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]1912. A Scot who had made clubs for Harry Vardon, J.H. Taylor and James[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]Braid (the famed British Triumvirate of champions), Sime was [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]signed on as MacGregor's chief club designer. He may have been the first[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]in the industry to ever hold that specific title. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]The shape of wood heads for almost as long as golf had been played was[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]long-nosed. They looked much like a hockey stick, not surprising in that[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the origins of the game have been traced to a form of hockey played by[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the Dutch. This shape, called "long nose," was gradually being[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]transformed, and Sime completed the transition with a shape inspired by the shape of a biscuit his mother baked, called a bap, which was blocky in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]configuration. The idea behind Sime's MacGregor "Bap" driver and brassie[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]was that a more compact head could deliver a more solid and powerful[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]blow. The "Bap" was introduced in 1921, and proved extremely successful.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]For 15 years it was the best selling wood in the MacGregor line, and[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]owing to this success the rest of industry developed similarly shaped[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]heads. The MacGregor "Bap" effectively revised the basic design of the[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]wooden clubhead.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[url="http://www.ohiojuniorworld.org/Home-MVGolf/People/Historical/MacGregor-in-Our-Area-3374.html"]http://www.ohiojunio...-Area-3374.html[/url]
[/quote]

This is the best story of the MacGregor history to date in my opinion. There are a few facts I could add, such as the importance of Bob Lysaght, engineer and plant manager. He was the buffer between Toney Penna and the number crunchers. It also omits Gene Troy, who signed Nicklaus, and passed on Arnold Palmer.

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

Charley-

Thanks again for the BAP confirmation, and insight, and those references to Arnie and Jack from the '50s and '60s. Wonder how many IMs Arnie actually has....

Oh to ask Bob Lysaght questions (some of which you could glean by my posts...).

Since you're confirming my "Two Books Easy" Theme....


Here's the question I'd like to ask about Jimmy Demaret/Jackie Burke Jr/Louise Suggs...

Both Jimmy Demaret and Jackie Burke were MacGregor staffers, and Masters Champions.
Louise Suggs was also a MacGregor staffer.

Consequently, each of them had "Signature" lines of clubs manufactured by MacGregor, with different Registration Numbers.

We're guessing these lines were most likely sold in sporting goods stores.

Were any of these "signature" clubs any reflection of what each staffer played,(like Bruce Herd) or were these staffers clubs more likely to be variations of the "Tommy Armour/Toney Penna" signature wood/iron designs stamped with their names?

[rex235]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1388181073' post='8356193']
In its last years the company was never in the right hands. I had hoped that Norman would not be in a rush and try to build back its business that had been vacated to Mizuno as the premium forged players club. I honestly think he could have done it but like a lot of things the best financial situation was to close it. He had joined forces with MacGregor in the first place because although his clothing line was good he did not have distributors around the Globe like MacGregor and that instantly gave him outlets for the Norman products. Clever of him.
It leaves us to have to settle for what others bring to the market and also to have our enjoyment of the older irons. Many play just as good as todays clubs for most of us. Tad
[/quote]

Tad-
+1

Is Taylor Made's 2014 Tour Preferred "Speed Blade" model iron a direct descendant of the 1954 Ben Hogan "Precision" iron?

60 years later...

[xgolfx]

[quote name='rex235' timestamp='1393033617' post='8719354']
[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1389389786' post='8437505']
[quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1389373037' post='8435449']
I found some nice info on Will Sime.

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]By 1910, MacGregor was recognized as the preeminent manufacturer of wood[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]clubs. The reputation was further enhanced when Will Sime was hired, in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]1912. A Scot who had made clubs for Harry Vardon, J.H. Taylor and James[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]Braid (the famed British Triumvirate of champions), Sime was [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]signed on as MacGregor's chief club designer. He may have been the first[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]in the industry to ever hold that specific title. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]The shape of wood heads for almost as long as golf had been played was[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]long-nosed. They looked much like a hockey stick, not surprising in that[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the origins of the game have been traced to a form of hockey played by[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the Dutch. This shape, called "long nose," was gradually being[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]transformed, and Sime completed the transition with a shape inspired by the shape of a biscuit his mother baked, called a bap, which was blocky in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]configuration. The idea behind Sime's MacGregor "Bap" driver and brassie[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]was that a more compact head could deliver a more solid and powerful[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]blow. The "Bap" was introduced in 1921, and proved extremely successful.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]For 15 years it was the best selling wood in the MacGregor line, and[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]owing to this success the rest of industry developed similarly shaped[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]heads. The MacGregor "Bap" effectively revised the basic design of the[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]wooden clubhead.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[url="http://www.ohiojuniorworld.org/Home-MVGolf/People/Historical/MacGregor-in-Our-Area-3374.html"]http://www.ohiojunio...-Area-3374.html[/url]
[/quote][quote name='astamm8' timestamp='1389373037' post='8435449']
I found some nice info on Will Sime.

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]By 1910, MacGregor was recognized as the preeminent manufacturer of wood[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]clubs. The reputation was further enhanced when Will Sime was hired, in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]1912. A Scot who had made clubs for Harry Vardon, J.H. Taylor and James[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]Braid (the famed British Triumvirate of champions), Sime was [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]signed on as MacGregor's chief club designer. He may have been the first[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]in the industry to ever hold that specific title. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]The shape of wood heads for almost as long as golf had been played was[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]long-nosed. They looked much like a hockey stick, not surprising in that[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the origins of the game have been traced to a form of hockey played by[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]the Dutch. This shape, called "long nose," was gradually being[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]transformed, and Sime completed the transition with a shape inspired by the shape of a biscuit his mother baked, called a bap, which was blocky in[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]configuration. The idea behind Sime's MacGregor "Bap" driver and brassie[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]was that a more compact head could deliver a more solid and powerful[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]blow. The "Bap" was introduced in 1921, and proved extremely successful.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]For 15 years it was the best selling wood in the MacGregor line, and[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]owing to this success the rest of industry developed similarly shaped[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]heads. The MacGregor "Bap" effectively revised the basic design of the[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#000000][size=3][size=4][size=3][size=4][size=3]wooden clubhead.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/color][/size]

[url="http://www.ohiojuniorworld.org/Home-MVGolf/People/Historical/MacGregor-in-Our-Area-3374.html"]http://www.ohiojunio...-Area-3374.html[/url]
[/quote]

This is the best story of the MacGregor history to date in my opinion. There are a few facts I could add, such as the importance of Bob Lysaght, engineer and plant manager. He was the buffer between Toney Penna and the number crunchers. It also omits Gene Troy, who signed Nicklaus, and passed on Arnold Palmer.

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

Charley-

Thanks again for the BAP confirmation, and insight, and those references to Arnie and Jack from the '50s and '60s. Wonder how many IMs Arnie actually has....

Oh to ask Bob Lysaght questions (some of which you could glean by my posts...).

Since you're confirming my "Two Books Easy" Theme....


Here's the question I'd like to ask about Jimmy Demaret/Jackie Burke Jr/Louise Suggs...

Both Jimmy Demaret and Jackie Burke were MacGregor staffers, and Masters Champions.
Louise Suggs was also a MacGregor staffer.

Consequently, each of them had "Signature" lines of clubs manufactured by MacGregor, with different Registration Numbers.

We're guessing these lines were most likely sold in sporting goods stores.

Were any of these "signature" clubs any reflection of what each staffer played,(like Bruce Herd) or were these staffers clubs more likely to be variations of the "Tommy Armour/Toney Penna" signature wood/iron designs stamped with their names?
[/quote]


There were a group of forgings which were the backbone of the entire line of irons. In the finishing process, the last grinding operation determined the name on the clubs. If the craftsman took too much off the top line, or made a head which did not conform to the master model, a cheap shaft and grip were installed and the store signature was stamped on the club.

The clubs with the home pro stamp were all from the custom department

CHARLEY PENNA

[rymail00]

[quote name='okesa' timestamp='1388160223' post='8354623']
[size=5]There's an interesting and sad read here;[/size]

[size=5][url="http://golfweek.com/news/2009/dec/14/macgregor-demise-american-classic/"]http://golfweek.com/...erican-classic/[/url][/size]
[/quote]

This was an awesome read. I used to read Tad's posts and Lamonts awhile back. I am 32 so all this happened before my time but i have heard of all the people in these articles. Its definitely a lost art. I am definitely looking forward to reading more threads like this.

Thanks for posting it.
Ryan

[majic]

[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1392565690' post='8679279']
I have a set of muscle back irons made for tour pro George Burns from the late 70s I believe. I believe he was a MacGregor contract player at the time.

The clubs look like Mr Moore's MTs above, but have GEORGE BURNS stamped across the muscle in back.

Could they have been ground by Art Emerson?

Texsport
[/quote]
My guess yes they were. George was a super star am and a good pro so my guess his clubs would have been done by Art. true story when George was stial an amateur he had his persimmon driver take a dump on him at the annual North South Am at Pinehurst that was in the Spring in those days and i fixed it for him. I tried to play every year for awhile. Very good event. Tad

[rymail00]

[quote name='teevons' timestamp='1387405839' post='8320147']
Very cool looking head, looks like a combination of top and second to top in my picture of a couple of Custom Macgregor head
[/quote]

Wow those blades in the top part of the pic are awesome!!! Dumb question alert-are those a production model or a hand ground set?

Also the iron pictured inTad's OP looks great too. The muscle looks larger too, thicker and taller (stretches up towards the topline more than modern blades i seen, is that correct?) Was the larger taller muscle to help keep the ball lower due to higher loft? Also the stamp on the muscle is cool looking too. Ingeneral did blades back then have more offset than today? i have been a member since 2008, and never really visited this section before. These old blades look so cool. It would be awesome to see a remake of these 2 sets (lol if MacG was still around).

What was the name of these 2 models?

Sorry for all the nuub questions.
Ryan

[rex235]

Ryan-

Actually, Don White (1996 Sports Illustrated article, "King of Clubs") is still around....

Since your equipment profile shows you already have 1018 Wedges from Scratch Golf, you could actually take the plunge and get an iron set ground pretty much any style you like....including the customized 1950s MacGregor "Winged MT" stamp, modified VIP-style muscleback grind done by Art Emerson for Tad....

Am pretty sure there are a few "Custom" sets from Scratch Golf with this profile.

But let me take a guess you already know that.....