Game Golf tracking system (merged)

[TimAZ]

[b]"Strokes Gained" analysis is now live, and can be viewed under "Insights". [/b]

I'm underwhelmed, but I guess it's about what I expected--highly simplified aggregate data--but it's a step in the right direction. I was hoping to be able to drill down into the details more, but for now I have bar graph showing strokes gained (lost) to a scratch golfer in four categories: off the tee, approach, short game, and putting. Below that I have "Smart tips" which give me one specific shot type from each category to focus on (eg, for Short Game: "Increase your accuracy between 25 and 50 yards from the the [sic] rough to lower your score by up to 1.62 shots per round." The analysis is based on my existing data (from the Classic unit) and the chart indicates that it's averaged from the past 10 rounds.

I only had a few minutes to poke around so I may be missing more. For people who have tinkered with full-blown "strokes gained" data (see the amazing spreadsheet posted in the Instruction forum) it seems pretty limited. For a general audience, though, I think it's probably a good tool--and much deeper than the typical recreational golfer goes in terms of objective self-analysis.

[FrankfurtDave]

[quote name='TimAZ' timestamp='1447384851' post='12592656']
[b]"Strokes Gained" analysis is now live, and can be viewed under "Insights". [/b]

I'm underwhelmed, but I guess it's about what I expected--highly simplified aggregate data--but it's a step in the right direction. I was hoping to be able to drill down into the details more, but for now I have bar graph showing strokes gained (lost) to a scratch golfer in four categories: off the tee, approach, short game, and putting. Below that I have "Smart tips" which give me one specific shot type from each category to focus on (eg, for Short Game: "Increase your accuracy between 25 and 50 yards from the the [sic] rough to lower your score by up to 1.62 shots per round." The analysis is based on my existing data (from the Classic unit) and the chart indicates that it's averaged from the past 10 rounds.

I only had a few minutes to poke around so I may be missing more. For people who have tinkered with full-blown "strokes gained" data (see the amazing spreadsheet posted in the Instruction forum) it seems pretty limited. For a general audience, though, I think it's probably a good tool--and much deeper than the typical recreational golfer goes in terms of objective self-analysis.
[/quote]


Thanks for the heads up. I also poked around and could not find anything else. I fully agree about being underwhelmed and for me this is the final nail in the coffin. I will go to Arccos I think.

I wanted to at least see strokes gained for every round so that I could analyse my score for the day and see trends. Preferably I also wanted to see the strokes gained value included in the round detail for every shot as well. Both of these are already in Arccos.

[ParHunter]

I am a bit underwhelmed (disappointed) as well. I would like to see it per round and a graph over time!

But if the data is correct I need to shift my focus. I thought my driver/approach would cost me the most - far from it. It seems to be the short game where I am losing! Which is a bit odd as I always thought of myself as a good chipper compared to some others.

[CactusGolf]

[quote name='ParHunter' timestamp='1447421065' post='12593646']
I am a bit underwhelmed (disappointed) as well. I would like to see it per round and a graph over time!

But if the data is correct I need to shift my focus. I thought my driver/approach would cost me the most - far from it. It seems to be the short game where I am losing! Which is a bit odd as I always thought of myself as a good chipper compared to some others.
[/quote]That's how I'm looking at it.

I thought I'd post a picture of what the analysis looks like.

[ParHunter]

Has anyone kept their own SG stats and can compare the values he is getting from GameGolf?

I am wondering what they include in 'Short Game'. Generally the 3rd shot on a par 4 when it is not on the green or everything e.g. under 50 yards?
(Just checked: [b]Short Game[/b][color=#535353]: All shots within 100 yards/meters of the hole that aren't on the green.)[/color]

Currently I am not convinced that the SG stats are correct - they don't 'feel' right. But then what you feel isn't real!

[ilovenewtech]

Really interesting conversation about the updates. I would question that Short Game is all shots within 100 yards, I mean most people won't average 100 yards for a sand wedge so surely that is a full shot? In my mind short game is probably all shots within 50/60 yards.

[dciccoritti]

Am I the only one finding this update incredibly underwhelming?

[ParHunter]

[quote name='ilovenewtech' timestamp='1447425821' post='12593942']
Really interesting conversation about the updates. I would question that Short Game is all shots within 100 yards, I mean most people won't average 100 yards for a sand wedge so surely that is a full shot? In my mind short game is probably all shots within 50/60 yards.
[/quote]

That is GameGolf's definition. I've looked it up on their FAQ page.

[ilovenewtech]

[quote name='ParHunter' timestamp='1447427125' post='12594026']
[quote name='ilovenewtech' timestamp='1447425821' post='12593942']
Really interesting conversation about the updates. I would question that Short Game is all shots within 100 yards, I mean most people won't average 100 yards for a sand wedge so surely that is a full shot? In my mind short game is probably all shots within 50/60 yards.
[/quote]

That is GameGolf's definition. I've looked it up on their FAQ page.
[/quote]


Sorry I knew it was their definition - I am just surprised it is 100 yards

[Dan Drake]

[quote name='dciccoritti' timestamp='1447427122' post='12594024']
Am I the only one finding this update incredibly underwhelming?
[/quote]

I don't think you are alone. I think we all wanted to see filter options (rounds, areas of game, time frames, different skill levels, etc.). SG on individual shots would be nice as well. The putting should be more specific as well. Allow us to put in the distances of out putts when we input the round and it could generate much better putting & approach SG numbers.

I find it really odd that if you are competing with Arcos and they already have these options, how can you do an update that still under performs your competition?

That said, it is something and for that, I'm appreciative.

[FrankfurtDave]

[quote name='dciccoritti' timestamp='1447427122' post='12594024']
Am I the only one finding this update incredibly underwhelming?
[/quote]

Must admit based on this update I cancelled my game golf live order and ordered Arccos online as I am really disappointed

[larrybud]

Definitely needs more filtering options, which I'm surprised they haven't added, as that's a pretty simple thing to do, coding-wise.

I think we'll be seeing more as time goes on. I think they were rushing to get SOMETHING out there, since they're 4 days past their 11/9 launch.

I'm sticking with it, however. After seeing my buddy screw around with his Arccos round after round, I still think I made the right choice. Plus those tags for the Arccos are huge, and they each require a battery.

[ParHunter]

Am I the only one finding this update incredibly underwhelming?

 

Must admit based on this update I cancelled my game golf live order and ordered Arccos online as I am really disappointed

 

I have to admit GameGolf is losing ground. Just have a look at this demo score card from Arccos and compare that to the useless one you get with GameGolf ;-(

[ParHunter]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1447433014' post='12594532']
Definitely needs more filtering options, which I'm surprised they haven't added, as that's a pretty simple thing to do, coding-wise.

I think we'll be seeing more as time goes on. I think they were rushing to get SOMETHING out there, since they're 4 days past their 11/9 launch.

[/quote]
Let's hope so. There are a lot of things that would be easy to do coding wise. E.g. Showing the stats over time with a trend-line. Really not rocket science. I had to create my own spread sheet with the basic stats to see any trend.

And don't get me started with that useless scorecard GameGolf has. I think their focus is on making everything 'easy' to understand. The problem is that a lot of people want more info, more depth.

[larrybud]

Trendline for sure. Funny, I just posted that on their wall on FB. Surprised nobody from the company has chimed in here yet.

[larrybud]

The strokes gained stat is pretty interesting. Over the last 10 rounds. I'm pretty shocked by mine, actually, and I'm a bit confused by their "recommendations". for example, my putting strokes gained is 0.04 (actually, strokes lost), then it says

[b]"Putting-Practice your medium putts between 10 and 30 feet to lower your score by up to 1.34 strokes per round."[/b]

1.34 strokes! That's a lot. I take it I don't make as many of those, but I must be better inside 10 feet, not many 3 putts, etc. compared to the scratch player.


[b]"Approach-Work on your shots greater than 250 yards from the fairway to lower your score by up to 0.29 strokes per round."[/b]

This one is probably because of the lack of data in the last 10 rounds. 1 shot over 250 which is considered an "approach" shot. But unless I'm allowed to tee it up in the FW, I'm not getting any better here! lol

My short game SG is much higher than I anticipated, at 1.52. Always thought that to be my strong suit in my game, and it turns out it's the highest value on this chart.

Would also love to see "what-if" scenarios in relation to strokes gained. "What if I hit the ball 10 yards farther off the tee", what will that do to my strokes gained, etc.

[attachment=3030808:strokes_gained.jpg]

[FrankfurtDave]

Am I the only one finding this update incredibly underwhelming?

 

Must admit based on this update I cancelled my game golf live order and ordered Arccos online as I am really disappointed

 

I have to admit GameGolf is losing ground. Just have a look at this demo score card from Arccos and compare that to the useless one you get with GameGolf ;-(

 

For me it is pretty simple. In an ideal world I would take the Arccos backend with the Game Golf HW.

 

I have no interest in live stats, I have no problem with tagging and my preference would always be to leave phone in my bag. All of this is great with Game Golf Classic it is just the staggering lack of progress on the backend and the seemingly lack of interest that disappoints me given the excellent feedback/ideas provided by the users over the last two years or so.

 

The rollout of this Strokes Gained looks half arsed at best with no filtering options provided at all. Why can I not at least see Stokes Gained for a particular course as opposed to having it fixed over the last 10 rounds. I rotate between a small 9 hole par 31 course and a full on 18 hole course. I am sure my stats for the two are completely different and what I want to know is what to work on specifically for each course.

 

As I said before this is the last straw for me, I will try Arccos even though the larger tags/batteries and phone requirement are not ideal.

[dciccoritti]

Am I the only one finding this update incredibly underwhelming?

 

Must admit based on this update I cancelled my game golf live order and ordered Arccos online as I am really disappointed

 

I have to admit GameGolf is losing ground. Just have a look at this demo score card from Arccos and compare that to the useless one you get with GameGolf ;-(

 

For me it is pretty simple. In an ideal world I would take the Arccos backend with the Game Golf HW.

 

I have no interest in live stats, I have no problem with tagging and my preference would always be to leave phone in my bag. All of this is great with Game Golf Classic it is just the staggering lack of progress on the backend and the seemingly lack of interest that disappoints me given the excellent feedback/ideas provided by the users over the last two years or so.

 

The rollout of this Strokes Gained looks half arsed at best with no filtering options provided at all. Why can I not at least see Stokes Gained for a particular course as opposed to having it fixed over the last 10 rounds. I rotate between a small 9 hole par 31 course and a full on 18 hole course. I am sure my stats for the two are completely different and what I want to know is what to work on specifically for each course.

 

As I said before this is the last straw for me, I will try Arccos even though the larger tags/batteries and phone requirement are not ideal.

 

Completely agree! I bought into Game Golf believing they were going to lead the way. Now I'm not so sure...unless they are working on a complete redesign and it's not ready yet.

[FAbb]

I finally got back to getting started with my Game Golf, and this "update" makes me want to ditch it altogether. How can they be so far behind Arccos in the analysis functionality?

[dcmidnight]

Absolutely disappointed in this update.

It tells me it thinks I should be practicing putts under ten feet. Really - how does it even know the putt length to that precision. First of all, I would assume thats always a given for anyone not playing on tour. Second, the accuracy on GG for short putts is so limited that it is already estimating where the pin is. It has no way to let you manually enter the putt lengths. Commercial grade GPS has a margin of error of what +/- 3-5 yards? That makes calculating putt lengths using GPS just a silly exercise.

One of the "tips" - is to have more accurate drives on holes over 500 yards? Really - thats a tip? First of all, I need that help on all holes so I assume it is just calculating which holes I have been least accurate on and saying hey, this is what you need to work on. But like Larry's, the tip is to improve accuracy on holes 350-400 yards in length? Just those very specific length holes lol?

Seriously, this is really disappointing. I dont know what I was expecting but this seems like a lot of work and a lot of wait for not a lot of payoff. Been out for two years now and very, very minimal developments.

[attachment=3030966:GGG.jpg]

Given how Arrcos has been looking with their stats lately, I'm inclined to take a look at other solutions. Maybe wait until after the PGA show to see if anything new comes out.

[jdl]

I still go back to the fact that the hole location is unknown. Maybe some of you take the time to edit each hole and try to get the pin placement more accurate, but I've not bothered. Without that data, seems like the strokes gained for putting and short game aren't going to be too useful.

[dcmidnight]

Exactly the point. Unless you are willing to go back and drag the pin to exactly where you think it was - this stat is useless.

GG simply assigns the hole within approximately two feet of where your last putt was tagged. So my question is - how are these putting stats even worthwhile?

People have been asking for a way to manually enter putt lengths since they first went on sale. Think about it, even if you manually paced it off or even eyeballed it - OK my first putt was 20 feet, second one was 4 feet - thats worlds more accurate than using a GPS unit like this to measure putts.

[Dan Drake]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1447439717' post='12594966']
Exactly the point. Unless you are willing to go back and drag the pin to exactly where you think it was - this stat is useless.

GG simply assigns the hole within approximately two feet of where your last putt was tagged. So my question is - how are these putting stats even worthwhile?

People have been asking for a way to manually enter putt lengths since they first went on sale. Think about it, even if you manually paced it off or even eyeballed it - OK my first putt was 20 feet, second one was 4 feet - thats worlds more accurate than using a GPS unit like this to measure putts.
[/quote]

I pace off every putt outside of 8ish feet as part of my green reading routine, typically marking my ball and then pacing to the hole to tend the flag for everyone else. This is easy information to remember and type in while you are editing the round.

This plus simple filter options would make this worlds better.

[FAbb]

Do we have any clue how they're calculating these strokes gained stats? What is their baseline? They say it is a scratch golfer, but larrybud is a 3 and somehow gains strokes on a scratch golfer in every category?

[dciccoritti]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1447439013' post='12594928']
Absolutely disappointed in this update.

It tells me it thinks I should be practicing putts under ten feet. Really - how does it even know the putt length to that precision. First of all, I would assume thats always a given for anyone not playing on tour. Second, the accuracy on GG for short putts is so limited that it is already estimating where the pin is. It has no way to let you manually enter the putt lengths. Commercial grade GPS has a margin of error of what +/- 3-5 yards? That makes calculating putt lengths using GPS just a silly exercise.

[b]One of the "tips" - is to have more accurate drives on holes over 500 yards?[/b] Really - thats a tip? First of all, I need that help on all holes so I assume it is just calculating which holes I have been least accurate on and saying hey, this is what you need to work on. But like Larry's, the tip is to improve accuracy on holes 350-400 yards in length? Just those very specific length holes lol?

Seriously, this is really disappointing. I dont know what I was expecting but this seems like a lot of work and a lot of wait for not a lot of payoff. Been out for two years now and very, very minimal developments.

Given how Arrcos has been looking with their stats lately, I'm inclined to take a look at other solutions. Maybe wait until after the PGA show to see if anything new comes out.
[/quote]

My tip was "You might want to take up Bowling"

[dcmidnight]

[quote name='FAbb' timestamp='1447461706' post='12596432']
Do we have any clue how they're calculating these strokes gained stats? What is their baseline? They say it is a scratch golfer, but larrybud is a 3 and somehow gains strokes on a scratch golfer in every category?
[/quote]

Their baseline seems ridiculous. How am I gaining 3.5 strokes against a scratch player on the greens? LOL.

I actually went back to my last ten rounds, wondering if maybe I had a round in there with some sort of oddity that would cause this - like maybe zero putts. Nope.

[dcmidnight]

Here is their new link. And this makes no sense to me.

Lets say I have a 40 foot putt and hit it to 10 feet. I then make the 10 footer. How is it measuring that its a ten footer? They have already said they estimate that the pin is within two feet of where you tag your second or third putt.

[i][color=#535353][size=5][u]How we calculate strokes gained:[/u][/size][/color]
[color=#535353]Strokes gained calculates how many strokes you gain (or lose) on each shot compared to how a baseline group (scratch golfers, PGA Tour Pros, etc.) performs from an identical position. The factors that determine your position are the distance away from the hole and the lie type (tee, fairway, rough, bunker, green) of the ball.

For example, let's say you are comparing yourself to a PGA Tour Pro for an 8-foot putt. The PGA Tour Pros average 1.5 strokes to hole out from 8 feet (approximately 50% 1-putt, 50% 2-putt, and virtually 0% 3-putt). Therefore, if you hole out the 8-foot putt, you GAIN 0.5 strokes compared to the Tour Pro. However, if you 2-putt the 8-foot putt, then you LOSE 0.5 strokes compared to the Tour Pro.

The same methodology can be applied to any combination of distance away from the hole and lie type.

Using our extensive database, we are able to create the scratch golfer baseline for every position on the golf course, which is used for calculating your strokes gained. Finally, after categorizing your shots we take your average strokes gained or lost and normalized it to represent an 18-hole round.[/color][/i]

[FAbb]

I don't get it. This update seems rather useless. I actuallly prefer the game golf hardware, but arccos is lapping them in the analysis area.

[phil75070]

[quote name='FAbb' timestamp='1447509995' post='12597992']
I don't get it. This update seems rather useless. I actuallly prefer the game golf hardware, but arccos is lapping them in the analysis area.
[/quote]

I second that! I don't like the Arccos tags that go into the clubs, I don't like the fact that they each take a battery, that they recommend even holding the clubs a certain way when carrying them, but..............their analysis is far, far better than Game Golf offers.

[larrybud]

[quote name='FAbb' timestamp='1447461706' post='12596432']
Do we have any clue how they're calculating these strokes gained stats? What is their baseline? They say it is a scratch golfer, but larrybud is a 3 and somehow gains strokes on a scratch golfer in every category?
[/quote]

No, I'm losing strokes relative to a scratch golfer.