Is there a rule Re: Players/Caddies not speaking English?

kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,789 ClubWRX
I know this issue has been touched on before within a separate thread, but I can't locate it. Anyhow, over the weekend, my son played in back to back SCPGA tournaments whereby caddies are not allowed nor can parents give advice to their player. My son had two players in his group and one of the boy's Mom would talk to him in Chinese at the start and finish of every hole. Now I have no idea if she is giving him advice or reminding him to drink water and eat food. The kid was 9yrs old and huge so I am sure he has no problem taking care of himself.



Just curious how you would handle this issue.

Comments

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,021 ✭✭
    kekoa wrote:


    I know this issue has been touched on before within a separate thread, but I can't locate it. Anyhow, over the weekend, my son played in back to back SCPGA tournaments whereby caddies are not allowed nor can parents give advice to their player. My son had two players in his group and one of the boy's Mom would talk to him in Chinese at the start and finish of every hole. Now I have no idea if she is giving him advice or reminding him to drink water and eat food. The kid was 9yrs old and huge so I am sure he has no problem taking care of himself.



    Just curious how you would handle this issue.




    You look at the parent and sternly say "We are not doing this today. If you need to talk to your child you need to do so in English. Otherwise I am reporting you to Tournament Director for giving advice."
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,789 ClubWRX
    leezer99 wrote:


    kekoa wrote:


    I know this issue has been touched on before within a separate thread, but I can't locate it. Anyhow, over the weekend, my son played in back to back SCPGA tournaments whereby caddies are not allowed nor can parents give advice to their player. My son had two players in his group and one of the boy's Mom would talk to him in Chinese at the start and finish of every hole. Now I have no idea if she is giving him advice or reminding him to drink water and eat food. The kid was 9yrs old and huge so I am sure he has no problem taking care of himself.



    Just curious how you would handle this issue.




    You look at the parent and sternly say "We are not doing this today. If you need to talk to your child you need to do so in English. Otherwise I am reporting you to Tournament Director for giving advice."




    And do it on the first instance, don't let it go on until you've gone crazy.




    So I politely brought up the issue on the 3rd hole. I'm not sure what she said, but it was a mumble. She kept speaking to her son so I discussed the issue with a rules official on the course (hole 6). He went over to speak to the lady and I could hear her getting very defensive and guess what- she spoke English.



    For those that play SCPGA I'm noticing that the events on the JDT level are run like circuses. I'm hoping the Player's tour is much much better when my son turns 9.
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,018 ✭✭
    edited Dec 3, 2018 #4
    Was the kid any good? Sometimes the parents give bad advice and you are better off letting them bug the kid at the end of every hole :} . I would think most kids do not want their parents nagging me trying to play golf.



    I would do as Heavy says but I would still mention it to an official as well. It helps to have an official speak to them.
  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 3,775 ✭✭
    Those conversations are not permitted in AJGA events. However, one morning a couple of summers ago, I was in my cart in the shade on #2 at an Asheville golf course hosting a girl's championship. As Lucy Li's group passed by a woman walking on the cart path spoke sharply to Lucy in what might have been Chinese. Lucy stopped, ran back and picked up her divot and replaced it.
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 8,789 ClubWRX
    leezer99 wrote:

    kekoa wrote:

    leezer99 wrote:


    kekoa wrote:


    I know this issue has been touched on before within a separate thread, but I can't locate it. Anyhow, over the weekend, my son played in back to back SCPGA tournaments whereby caddies are not allowed nor can parents give advice to their player. My son had two players in his group and one of the boy's Mom would talk to him in Chinese at the start and finish of every hole. Now I have no idea if she is giving him advice or reminding him to drink water and eat food. The kid was 9yrs old and huge so I am sure he has no problem taking care of himself.



    Just curious how you would handle this issue.




    You look at the parent and sternly say "We are not doing this today. If you need to talk to your child you need to do so in English. Otherwise I am reporting you to Tournament Director for giving advice."




    And do it on the first instance, don't let it go on until you've gone crazy.




    So I politely brought up the issue on the 3rd hole. I'm not sure what she said, but it was a mumble. She kept speaking to her son so I discussed the issue with a rules official on the course (hole 6). He went over to speak to the lady and I could hear her getting very defensive and guess what- she spoke English.



    For those that play SCPGA I'm noticing that the events on the JDT level are run like circuses. I'm hoping the Player's tour is much much better when my son turns 9.




    Spoiler alert: you have the same issues in the 9-11 age bracket. Once the kids get older they don't want parents around so it's a bit easier.



    Pro Tip: Only sign up for events where spectators are NOT allowed.




    He did one of those events yesterday and I was floored by what my son told me one of the kids in his group was doing. Basically making loud noises and dancing on the green while the other players were putting. This went on even after they asked him several times to stop. **** like that is like getting a stroke penalty per hole.
  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members Posts: 832 ✭✭
    kekoa wrote:


    I know this issue has been touched on before within a separate thread, but I can't locate it. Anyhow, over the weekend, my son played in back to back SCPGA tournaments whereby caddies are not allowed nor can parents give advice to their player. My son had two players in his group and one of the boy's Mom would talk to him in Chinese at the start and finish of every hole. Now I have no idea if she is giving him advice or reminding him to drink water and eat food. The kid was 9yrs old and huge so I am sure he has no problem taking care of himself.



    Just curious how you would handle this issue.




    Congrats on your son's win in one tournament and 2nd place finish in the other.
  • mrshinsamrshinsa Members Posts: 157 ✭✭
    edited Dec 3, 2018 #8
    kekoa wrote:


    He did one of those events yesterday and I was floored by what my son told me one of the kids in his group was doing. Basically making loud noises and dancing on the green while the other players were putting. This went on even after they asked him several times to stop. **** like that is like getting a stroke penalty per hole.




    Was it the floss?



    I can't wait till that dance dies down...
  • chrissdcchrissdc Members Posts: 48 ✭✭
    I don’t think you should say anything to the parent or kid. If you see a rules guy, maybe mention it to them.

    Let the kids handle things between themselves. Generally, the more parents are involved, more problems are created.

    Telling a parent to speak English is just going to create problems.

  • MudguardMudguard Members Posts: 1,258 ✭✭


    You look at the parent and sternly say "We are not doing this today. If you need to talk to your child you need to do so in English. Otherwise I am reporting you to Tournament Director for giving advice."




    Or you learn Chinese? Xenophobic much?
  • 4rheel4rheel OC, CaliforniaMembers Posts: 1,797 ✭✭
    I think I mentioned this before but dropped off my kid at a JDT tourney at David L. Baker where no spectators were allowed. Left to run some errands and driving back into the parking lot noticed some parents walking all along the outside the course talking to their kid. Hardcore. Lol
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,021 ✭✭
    Mudguard wrote:


    You look at the parent and sternly say "We are not doing this today. If you need to talk to your child you need to do so in English. Otherwise I am reporting you to Tournament Director for giving advice."




    Or you learn Chinese? Xenophobic much?




    Nope. Could care less what language someone speaks. You obviously have never been on the course when this happens or have the balls to say something. I do. The rules are the rules and they usually clearly state no talking to the kids unless you are offering food, drink, cheering, etc. If they are talking in a foreign language you tell them to speak English or you will report it to the rules official/committee. I can assure you I HAVE done this and learned it along the way from other parents as my daughter went through the system.



    I must add what a coward you are to try to be a social justice warrior when you don’t know someone or what they stand for.





    chrissdc wrote:
    I don’t think you should say anything to the parent or kid. If you see a rules guy, maybe mention it to them.

    Let the kids handle things between themselves. Generally, the more parents are involved, more problems are created.

    Telling a parent to speak English is just going to create problems.




    Actually, it doesn’t.
  • chrissdcchrissdc Members Posts: 48 ✭✭

    Mudguard wrote:


    You look at the parent and sternly say "We are not doing this today. If you need to talk to your child you need to do so in English. Otherwise I am reporting you to Tournament Director for giving advice."




    Or you learn Chinese? Xenophobic much?




    Nope. Could care less what language someone speaks. You obviously have never been on the course when this happens or have the balls to say something. I do. The rules are the rules and they usually clearly state no talking to the kids unless you are offering food, drink, cheering, etc. If they are talking in a foreign language you tell them to speak English or you will report it to the rules official/committee. I can assure you I HAVE done this and learned it along the way from other parents as my daughter went through the system.



    I must add what a coward you are to try to be a social justice warrior when you don’t know someone or what they stand for.






    chrissdc wrote:
    I don’t think you should say anything to the parent or kid. If you see a rules guy, maybe mention it to them.

    Let the kids handle things between themselves. Generally, the more parents are involved, more problems are created.

    Telling a parent to speak English is just going to create problems.




    Actually, it doesn’t.
  • billh17billh17 just happy to play Members Posts: 2,844 ✭✭

    Mudguard wrote:


    You look at the parent and sternly say "We are not doing this today. If you need to talk to your child you need to do so in English. Otherwise I am reporting you to Tournament Director for giving advice."




    Or you learn Chinese? Xenophobic much?




    Nope. Could care less what language someone speaks. You obviously have never been on the course when this happens or have the balls to say something. I do. The rules are the rules and they usually clearly state no talking to the kids unless you are offering food, drink, cheering, etc. If they are talking in a foreign language you tell them to speak English or you will report it to the rules official/committee. I can assure you I HAVE done this and learned it along the way from other parents as my daughter went through the system.



    I must add what a coward you are to try to be a social justice warrior when you don’t know someone or what they stand for.






    chrissdc wrote:
    I don’t think you should say anything to the parent or kid. If you see a rules guy, maybe mention it to them.

    Let the kids handle things between themselves. Generally, the more parents are involved, more problems are created.

    Telling a parent to speak English is just going to create problems.




    Actually, it doesn’t.


    and you do not know him,or what he stands for,but you can call him a coward..Sorta giving up that high hill you think you're standing on.
    Certified Orginal Member#2
    Outlaw Golf Association
    To Heck with the USGA
  • chrissdcchrissdc Members Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Crazy replies, it has nothing about having balls. It actually takes balls to let the kids handle things themselves and not be the golf cop. Too many parents trying to be golf law enforcement.

    I don’t bellive you are xenophobic, but this English only confrontation you suggest sounds very Bivens(ish)
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,018 ✭✭
    edited Dec 7, 2018 #16
    chrissdc wrote:


    Crazy replies, it has nothing about having balls. It actually takes balls to let the kids handle things themselves and not be the golf cop. Too many parents trying to be golf law enforcement.

    I don’t bellive you are xenophobic, but this English only confrontation you suggest sounds very Bivens(ish)




    I am fine with letting the kids work it out and it how it should be be but I have seen these type of parents and it not just about what language they speak because there all the same. Some these parents are Americans too.



    If there is no caddy allowed then It means your not suppose to give them advice. If you every done a tournament like this it can agonizing to see your kid make stupid mistakes that if you said something it would snap them out it. Learning is hard and painful so you learn to deal with it. If you let them get away with advice there going to have a huge advantage and score lower then they should.



    Not only that these same parents have total disregard for rules and yes they do drop balls and kick you kids into the rough. I seen and heard this happen more then once.



    Again most parents are fine but that doesn’t mean you roll over and let them push you and your kid around. Speaking a language everyone else does not know when they speak English very well is a problem .



    If your a spectator Give the kid water and food and make sure they have course etiquette and remind them about playing fast and everyone is happy.
  • chrissdcchrissdc Members Posts: 48 ✭✭
    tiger1873 wrote:

    chrissdc wrote:


    Crazy replies, it has nothing about having balls. It actually takes balls to let the kids handle things themselves and not be the golf cop. Too many parents trying to be golf law enforcement.

    I don’t bellive you are xenophobic, but this English only confrontation you suggest sounds very Bivens(ish)




    I am fine with letting the kids work it out and it how it should be be but I have seen these type of parents and it not just about what language they speak because there all the same.



    If there is no caddy allowed the. It means your not suppose to give them advice. If you every done a tournament like this it can agonizing to see your kid make stupid mistakes that if you said something it would snap them out it. Learning is hard and painful so you deal with it. If you let them get away with advice there going to have a huge advantage and score lower then they should.



    Not only that these same parents have total disregard for rules and yes they do drop balls and kick you kids into the rough. I seen and heard this happen more then once.



    Again most parents are fine but that doesn’t mean you roll over and let them push you and you kid around. Not speaking language everyone else knows when they speak English very well is a problem .



    If you a spectator Give the kid water and food and make sure they have course etiquette and remind them about playing fast and everyone is happy.
  • MudguardMudguard Members Posts: 1,258 ✭✭


    Could care less what language someone speaks. You obviously have never been on the course when this happens or have the balls to say something. I do. The rules are the rules and they usually clearly state no talking to the kids unless you are offering food, drink, cheering, etc. If they are talking in a foreign language you tell them to speak English or you will report it to the rules official/committee.


    What if mum/dad doesn't speak English? Obviously you do care, as you don't speak Chinese how do you know they weren't offering food, drink or cheering? Would you have your child play a tournament in France and expect to only communicate in French?
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,018 ✭✭
    edited Dec 7, 2018 #19
    Mudguard wrote:



    Could care less what language someone speaks. You obviously have never been on the course when this happens or have the balls to say something. I do. The rules are the rules and they usually clearly state no talking to the kids unless you are offering food, drink, cheering, etc. If they are talking in a foreign language you tell them to speak English or you will report it to the rules official/committee.


    What if mum/dad doesn't speak English? Obviously you do care, as you don't speak Chinese how do you know they weren't offering food, drink or cheering? Would you have your child play a tournament in France and expect to only communicate in French?




    You say very little and keep a distance from the group. Offering a water bottle or snakcks is pretty obvious. When it is hot outside usually all the parents are concerned about all the kids and make sure they all drink water.



    I don’t think you ever done a tournament with no caddies or been in the situation you are talking about. Talking to kids is big no no in some tournaments . Some events you not even allowed to rake bunkers, help fill in divots or get within 50 yards. I usually prefer those tournaments as they are usually better run.
  • marker10marker10 Members Posts: 21
    Mudguard wrote:



    Could care less what language someone speaks. You obviously have never been on the course when this happens or have the balls to say something. I do. The rules are the rules and they usually clearly state no talking to the kids unless you are offering food, drink, cheering, etc. If they are talking in a foreign language you tell them to speak English or you will report it to the rules official/committee.


    What if mum/dad doesn't speak English? Obviously you do care, as you don't speak Chinese how do you know they weren't offering food, drink or cheering? Would you have your child play a tournament in France and expect to only communicate in French?


    If the tournament rule says no caddies, then the parent should just stay quiet and not say anything. If you need to give your kid food or water, you just hand it to them without saying a word. If your kid hits a nice shot, you just clap. Bottom line is you just don’t want to give the impression that you’re coaching so don’t say a word. I’ve seen parent giving hand signals from 50 yards away...pretty ridiculous.
  • MudguardMudguard Members Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
    leezer99 wrote:


    Let me know when Slugger White takes the time to learn the languages of all the players on tour and I'll consider your point more than just a bull s*** response to a serious question.




    Doesn't excuse the fact that suggesting that someone who may not speak English as a first language, to only speak English, is boorish and racist.
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,321 ✭✭
    These are 8 and 9 year old kids, right?



    GET A LIFE!
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  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 271 ✭✭
    tatertot wrote:


    These are 8 and 9 year old kids, right?



    GET A LIFE!




    Splitting hairs here, but these rules apply to older junior tournaments. The 8-10 year olds tend to need caddies, so talking and advice is allowed.



    Most of us are on here to get/give advice on navigating the world of junior golf. By choice. Not sure the old “get a life” rip is effective when we are all choosing to visit this thread, including you. Your life apparently has enough extra space in it to tell us how to live ours.
  • 1t2golf1t2golf Marshals Posts: 3,187 mod
    Topic veering off course.



    We're done here. Do not submit any further reports.
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