X-Factor Swing bad for your Back

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  • dapdap Members Posts: 2,557 ✭✭
    This is a Miyahira analysis of Day's hip action compared to Dustin Johnson. Day has a lot more "goat humping" of the target thereby really crunching the lower spine compared to DJ.



  • PorscheFanPorscheFan Members Posts: 1,155 ✭✭
    In comparison, Adam Scott just looks like he's standing tall. Now, Scott's swing I could live with...



  • Fort Worth ProFort Worth Pro Members Posts: 2,774 ✭✭
    dap wrote:


    This is a Miyahira analysis of Day's hip action compared to Dustin Johnson. Day has a lot more "goat humping" of the target thereby really crunching the lower spine compared to DJ.








    This is dumb. Any teacher commenting on why player a or player b is hurt based on a swing analysis is doing it wrong. You have to know what an individual players range of motion is. If a player is not nearing their own personal end range for a particular segment they are not going to hurt themselves with a motion that another player very well might. Jason does not have back issues because of his golf swing.
  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members Posts: 9,586 ✭✭
    dap wrote:

    pinhigh27 wrote:

    llewol007 wrote:


    The Chiropractor I went to when I had lower back pain said the golf swing is bad for your back and that it is not a natural motion for your back to repeat over and over.




    neither is having your back "cracked" or whatever quack stuff they do


    dap wrote:


    That article also suggests the downswing can also put strain on the lower back. Day has a pretty extreme reverse C follow through and this causes lateral flexion in the lower spine. In contrast, Dustin Johnson has very little reverse C and I don't think he has any back problems despite him being a longer hitter than Day.




    so the only thing that could possibly influence the presence of back pain is there golf swings? nothing about their anatomy, prior injuries, etc etc



    not every thing in someones life is explained by their golf swing


    Certainly the golf swing is not the only cause. It could be gym work or playing other sports. Only Day would know but I suspect he doesn't because I haven't heard him say specifically what caused his back issues other than its facet joint locking up due to inflammation. Days golf swing has brought him a lot of success and I'm sure he doesn't want to believe it's caused by his golf swing which understandly he wouldn't want to change though he did try to shorten it a few years ago I believe.



    It's not so much the finish of his golf swing, it's the extreme arching of his back just post impact when both arms are fully extended. That much arching cannot possibly be good for your lower back especially at the speed he is going. Just my opinion.




    or your anatomy.
    How to be in better shape for golf?
    Become a better athlete.
    Don't worry about golf specific.
    Compound lifts w/ linear progress
    Don't forget the mobility work.
    More results, more functional

    Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
    17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
    8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
    Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
    Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700
  • dapdap Members Posts: 2,557 ✭✭

    dap wrote:


    This is a Miyahira analysis of Day's hip action compared to Dustin Johnson. Day has a lot more "goat humping" of the target thereby really crunching the lower spine compared to DJ.








    This is dumb. Any teacher commenting on why player a or player b is hurt based on a swing analysis is doing it wrong. You have to know what an individual players range of motion is. If a player is not nearing their own personal end range for a particular segment they are not going to hurt themselves with a motion that another player very well might. Jason does not have back issues because of his golf swing.


    The experts that work with him could be wrong. Doctors sometimes get their diagnosis wrong and that's why patients get second opinions. I get that a lot of pros have greater range of motion than the rest of us but that doesn't mean you should be pushing that out to the max on every swing. Even contortionists will have their limits.



    Cameron Champ who is like gumby doesn't goat hump the target as extreme as Day. He has a similar hip action to DJ.



  • SparklehorseSparklehorse Members Posts: 34 ✭✭
    edited Feb 7, 2019 6:25pm #37
    Is it true that Cameron also suffers from back problems (bulging discs I think)? I've read somewhere that some think it was the shift from hickory to steel that might be the catalyst for back strain. That with steel the pros can really stress the shaft (and their spines) with various power moves (especially in transition) to create high clubhead speeds without breaking the shaft , while older era hickory golfers had to power their swing differently.
  • Fort Worth ProFort Worth Pro Members Posts: 2,774 ✭✭
    dap wrote:


    dap wrote:


    This is a Miyahira analysis of Day's hip action compared to Dustin Johnson. Day has a lot more "goat humping" of the target thereby really crunching the lower spine compared to DJ.








    This is dumb. Any teacher commenting on why player a or player b is hurt based on a swing analysis is doing it wrong. You have to know what an individual players range of motion is. If a player is not nearing their own personal end range for a particular segment they are not going to hurt themselves with a motion that another player very well might. Jason does not have back issues because of his golf swing.


    The experts that work with him could be wrong. Doctors sometimes get their diagnosis wrong and that's why patients get second opinions. I get that a lot of pros have greater range of motion than the rest of us but that doesn't mean you should be pushing that out to the max on every swing. Even contortionists will have their limits.



    Cameron Champ who is like gumby doesn't goat hump the target as extreme as Day. He has a similar hip action to DJ.








    Over the past 5 years back has improved. He doesn't push his range of motion to the max
  • SparklehorseSparklehorse Members Posts: 34 ✭✭
    Quite an interesting read about Philip Francis's experience with back pain and how it ended his golf career (but he might come back).



    https://www.golf.com/tour-news/2018/03/15/why-are-back-pain-and-spinal-injuries-plaguing-game-golf
  • dapdap Members Posts: 2,557 ✭✭


    Is it true that Cameron also suffers from back problems (bulging discs I think)? I've read somewhere that some think it was the shift from hickory to steel that might be the catalyst for back strain. That with steel the pros can really stress the shaft (and their spines) with various power moves (especially in transition) to create high clubhead speeds without breaking the shaft , while older era hickory golfers had to power their swing differently.


    He did have back injuries in the past but he has recognised what caused them and is making changes to lessen the odds of it happening again. I suppose pro golfers are going to be susceptible to back injuries no matter how they they swing but you don't want to be pushing the limits of your range of motion.



    "“How I create my power is part of the issue,” admits Champ. “It’s what caused the back injury to start. (Foley and I are) fine-tuning things and changing things slowly… not all at once because that would throw me way off, if he decided to change my whole swing.”



    Champ says he has a ‘slingshot’ action, and that’s where his injury came from to begin with. He brings his swing to the top and drops down, compressing on his spine angle, which is how he got hurt in the first place. He says he’s trying to get away from that move, stand taller, and use his lower body versus his upper body.



    “That’s just a process, because it’s how I’ve swung my whole life. It’ll take some time to change but that’s definitely what we’re working on.”



  • scopekscopek Members Posts: 515
    It's interesting that Tiger still keeps his right knee fairly flexed on the backswing on his latest swing despite the back issues. I'd surmise that TW would have analyzed this to death and has determined that this has not caused this back issues? Also, Phil Mickeson keeps his back leg flexed in the backswing and he will often brag about not having any back issues.
  • ferrispgmferrispgm Members Posts: 1,907 ✭✭
    scopek wrote:


    It's interesting that Tiger still keeps his right knee fairly flexed on the backswing on his latest swing despite the back issues. I'd surmise that TW would have analyzed this to death and has determined that this has not caused this back issues? Also, Phil Mickeson keeps his back leg flexed in the backswing and he will often brag about not having any back issues.




    Tiger has actually increased his hip rotation in the backswing and his shoulders work more perpendicular to his spine angle...both of which decrease stress on the back. It's really apparent in his downswing....his right shoulder used to move very vertically, especially with driver...it's much more around his body now.
    Driver: Callaway Epic 9* w/ Graphite Design Tour AD M9003
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    Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 18*
    Irons: Srixon Z765 3-5 iron, z965 6-PW, Project X
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  • ferrispgmferrispgm Members Posts: 1,907 ✭✭

    dap wrote:


    dap wrote:


    This is a Miyahira analysis of Day's hip action compared to Dustin Johnson. Day has a lot more "goat humping" of the target thereby really crunching the lower spine compared to DJ.



    [media=]




    This is dumb. Any teacher commenting on why player a or player b is hurt based on a swing analysis is doing it wrong. You have to know what an individual players range of motion is. If a player is not nearing their own personal end range for a particular segment they are not going to hurt themselves with a motion that another player very well might. Jason does not have back issues because of his golf swing.


    The experts that work with him could be wrong. Doctors sometimes get their diagnosis wrong and that's why patients get second opinions. I get that a lot of pros have greater range of motion than the rest of us but that doesn't mean you should be pushing that out to the max on every swing. Even contortionists will have their limits.



    Cameron Champ who is like gumby doesn't goat hump the target as extreme as Day. He has a similar hip action to DJ.



    [media=]




    Over the past 5 years back has improved. He doesn't push his range of motion to the max




    He has shortened his swing which indeed obviously lessens the range of motion which reduces the stress put on his back due to the hip restriction in the backswing since the "X factor" is lessened as a result.
    Driver: Callaway Epic 9* w/ Graphite Design Tour AD M9003
    FWY: Taylormade Rocketballz Tp 14.5*
    Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 18*
    Irons: Srixon Z765 3-5 iron, z965 6-PW, Project X
    54*: Titleist SM6 S grind black finish
    58*: Cleveland CG14 1 dot
    Putter: Taylormade Daytona Rossa with agsi.
  • Fort Worth ProFort Worth Pro Members Posts: 2,774 ✭✭
    ferrispgm wrote:


    dap wrote:


    dap wrote:


    This is a Miyahira analysis of Day's hip action compared to Dustin Johnson. Day has a lot more "goat humping" of the target thereby really crunching the lower spine compared to DJ.



    [media=]




    This is dumb. Any teacher commenting on why player a or player b is hurt based on a swing analysis is doing it wrong. You have to know what an individual players range of motion is. If a player is not nearing their own personal end range for a particular segment they are not going to hurt themselves with a motion that another player very well might. Jason does not have back issues because of his golf swing.


    The experts that work with him could be wrong. Doctors sometimes get their diagnosis wrong and that's why patients get second opinions. I get that a lot of pros have greater range of motion than the rest of us but that doesn't mean you should be pushing that out to the max on every swing. Even contortionists will have their limits.



    Cameron Champ who is like gumby doesn't goat hump the target as extreme as Day. He has a similar hip action to DJ.



    [media=]




    Over the past 5 years back has improved. He doesn't push his range of motion to the max




    He has shortened his swing which indeed obviously lessens the range of motion which reduces the stress put on his back due to the hip restriction in the backswing since the "X factor" is lessened as a result.




    He shortened it in 17 in an attempt to hit it straighter. Not a back issue. I can recall one tournament where he got way too long and it caused back issues but it was a weird circumstance.
  • ferrispgmferrispgm Members Posts: 1,907 ✭✭
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    Day said his swing became longer last year, which meant more turn in his upper body and more swing. Not many others go at it as hard as Day with nearly every club in the bag, from a towering 5-iron, a 9-iron he gouges out of the rough or tee shots that rank him among the top power players in the game.[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    But it might have come at a cost.[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    “If you have a lot more turn, a lot more speed and then unwinding, it’s a lot more balance through the ball, and that can obviously wreak havoc on your back, as well,” he said. “I feel good. I’m not saying that I’m obviously clear and I’m out of the woods, but I’m definitely cautiously optimistic about how things are progressing.”[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    When he returned to practice, he tried to shorten the swing.[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    That might help him with his core, though he could lose distance, and Day was OK with that. The question is whether he can keep the swing more compact.[/background]
    Driver: Callaway Epic 9* w/ Graphite Design Tour AD M9003
    FWY: Taylormade Rocketballz Tp 14.5*
    Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 18*
    Irons: Srixon Z765 3-5 iron, z965 6-PW, Project X
    54*: Titleist SM6 S grind black finish
    58*: Cleveland CG14 1 dot
    Putter: Taylormade Daytona Rossa with agsi.
  • Fort Worth ProFort Worth Pro Members Posts: 2,774 ✭✭
    ferrispgm wrote:


    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    Day said his swing became longer last year, which meant more turn in his upper body and more swing. Not many others go at it as hard as Day with nearly every club in the bag, from a towering 5-iron, a 9-iron he gouges out of the rough or tee shots that rank him among the top power players in the game.[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    But it might have come at a cost.[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    “If you have a lot more turn, a lot more speed and then unwinding, it’s a lot more balance through the ball, and that can obviously wreak havoc on your back, as well,” he said. “I feel good. I’m not saying that I’m obviously clear and I’m out of the woods, but I’m definitely cautiously optimistic about how things are progressing.”[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    When he returned to practice, he tried to shorten the swing.[/background]
    [background=rgb(254, 254, 254)]

    That might help him with his core, though he could lose distance, and Day was OK with that. The question is whether he can keep the swing more compact.[/background]





    It was the tour championship in 16 when he got too long and it hurt him. Why he got too long was another deal all together. What you get in magazines or in interviews is not always 100% accurate. These guys give disinformation at times.
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,720 ✭✭
    scopek wrote:


    It's interesting that Tiger still keeps his right knee fairly flexed on the backswing on his latest swing despite the back issues. I'd surmise that TW would have analyzed this to death and has determined that this has not caused this back issues? Also, Phil Mickeson keeps his back leg flexed in the backswing and he will often brag about not having any back issues.




    Both Phil and Tiger extend their trail leg.
  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War Members Posts: 2,752 ✭✭
    folks also misunderstand the X factor..retarding hips doesn't mean no hip turn..it also doesn't mean engaging your lower back on the turn, mclean clearly says, 2 pillars in the swing..left leg post/right leg post for backswing/downswing . most amateurs turn on both posts simultaneously back and through with incorrect use of the torso...no lower body support...pros do too.
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  • dapdap Members Posts: 2,557 ✭✭
    So called X factor is more crucial in the downswing than backswing. Creating separation of the hips and shoulders in the downswing is crucial to a good golf swing. Hips should open up while rib cage remain closed and the chest compresses down towards the ball. This video demonstrates the separation. Probably not good for your back and explains why so many pro golfers have back issues especially those that hyperextend as well. Perhaps back issues are inevitable if you want a good swing.







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