How patient do I need to be with my 9 year old daughter?

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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    From BertGA above instead of copying the entire text:



    "Sometimes you just let kids have fun until they get older and find a way to motivate themselves..."



    Yea, sounds good until they don't. Are you willing to roll the dice with your kid or would you rather be an involved parent with reasonably high expectations encouraging achievement?



    And I agree about Lexi; she had a childhood that was pretty singular in her pursuit of golf, whether her own doing or her parents. I'm not advocating for extremes, just saying that there can be a balance and that there's nothing wrong with establishing high expectations and pushing a bit.



    Oh, and DJ grew up in Myrtle Beach and his father was a head golf professional so he didn't lack for course access and good instruction. He played high level junior events including AJGA, and that takes resources. So although he may have had some dysfunction in his childhood, he also had advantages that many don't.



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  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭
    I’m going to agree that it probably is the most common route on the LPGA.



    Do any numbers exist for all the kids that were pushed hard, and just quit? Probably not, but that’s a real number that I think parents should consider.
  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BertGA wrote:


    I’m going to agree that it probably is the most common route on the LPGA.



    Do any numbers exist for all the kids that were pushed hard, and just quit? Probably not, but that’s a real number that I think parents should consider.




    I think there are a bunch who end up quitting after college. Especially girls, but there are other factors at play including finding other young women to play regularly with, starting careers, families, etc.
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  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to make my way out of this convo, I don't have kids so I don't care as much as others in this thread but I think dpb has a pretty good balance in is approach and gets it. This thread was about OP getting frustrated that his kid wasn't winning tournaments at 9 which is why I even responded
  • blairdblaird Members Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    BertGA wrote:

    TigerMom wrote:
    BertGA wrote:
    TigerMom wrote:
    Redjeep83 wrote:
    Killer, what are your scores like? I think you should compete in some gong tournament too so you can relate? Maybe it will take the obsession of you playing golf through your daughter
    What obsession? A parent shouldn't try to help child? How many kids do you know who like to do everything that is good for them on their own, without prodding from parents? NONE Maybe this type of attitude is why Americans are falling behind the rest of the world in many things
    You must be kidding. At some level you at least have to understand there are cultural differences at play here. Much like there are different kinds of kids, there are different kinds of parenting AND coaching. The best coaches either 1) have their own method and mold the players to that, or 2) find a unique way to motivate each individual athlete. If you have the luxury of selecting your players, like Bill Belichick, you can be the same old A-hole and squeeze every bit of talent out of them. As a parent, unless you like adopting young athletes from broken families, you don't get to choose your team. It is given to you. So you have to find a way to motivate each one. If your model is so perfect, then please tell us how every single premiere athlete was raised in this same high-pressure, demanding childhood. And how no child, ever, blamed their parents for pressuring them so hard they learned to hate the sport, and loathe their parents for it.
    I am confused by your comment are you replying to me? yeah, I think almost every single premier LPGA tour player (except freaks like Thompson) grew up in a high pressure, demanding environment do you disagree?




    I do disagree. Funny you use Lexi for your example. She was home-schooled, presumably to focus on sports. Started winning Kids World at 8 years old. Set the record for youngest US Women's Open competitor at 12 years old. That sounds like the epitome of high pressure.



    What is she doing now? Taking time off from her career, breaking down on the 18th green after flubbing a chip, etc. If I had to guess, I'd say she is overwhelmed by the pressure to perform and succeed for her fans, her sponsors, her parents, etc. All that while growing up in an Instagram generation where she posts every workout, every celebrity ball event, etc.



    She isn't living her life for herself, she's living it for someone else. It could be her parents, it could be her fans. But the stress has broken through now. I hope she is able to find her inner peace and motivation and become a force on the LPGA again. But I wouldn't use her right now as an example of how to make it in the LPGA.



    And for every Tiger there is a Dustin Johnson who was supremely talented but underachieving, and found their motivation later in life.



    My point is, you want to be a tiger mom, so all you see are successful tiger mom stories. That's not always the road to success. I don't even think it's the most common road to success. But we all like to justify our own biases. I'm not saying kids don't need some motivation. I'm just saying there isn't one recipe for success. Sometimes you just let kids have fun until they get older and find a way to motivate themselves. Success at 10 years old does not predict success later in life.




    That line right there is one I use a lot. I see it all the time in coaching with overbearing parents who will breakdown shot by shot as soon as the round is done. I get the parents want the best for their kid, but the kid can never play for themself. Its hard for me to hear, "im gonna hear about that after the round" or "my dad is so mad at me right now" and it can affect the play of the jr. I can do a somewhat decent job of running interference or finding a way to get them back on track but sometimes its just a total loss. My dad never pressured me to play and would let me pick my tournaments but I never felt I was truly playing for me. He never got mad at me or anything, but I never felt truly free.
  • blairdblaird Members Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:

    BertGA wrote:


    I'm going to agree that it probably is the most common route on the LPGA.



    Do any numbers exist for all the kids that were pushed hard, and just quit? Probably not, but that's a real number that I think parents should consider.




    I think there are a bunch who end up quitting after college. Especially girls, but there are other factors at play including finding other young women to play regularly with, starting careers, families, etc.




    I have seen a bunch of good girls hardly play after college or high school if they didnt go to college for golf. I think part of the issue is there are not many girls events, at least in our state. Theres a mens event every month and sometimes more than one. The girls dont have much to play in outside of the state womens am and maybe one or two more individual events. Again, thats just our state, Im sure other states have more events for their women.
  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭
    dpb5031 wrote:


    From BertGA above instead of copying the entire text:



    "Sometimes you just let kids have fun until they get older and find a way to motivate themselves..."



    Yea, sounds good until they don't. Are you willing to roll the dice with your kid or would you rather be an involved parent with reasonably high expectations encouraging achievement?



    And I agree about Lexi; she had a childhood that was pretty singular in her pursuit of golf, whether her own doing or her parents. I'm not advocating for extremes, just saying that there can be a balance and that there's nothing wrong with establishing high expectations and pushing a bit.



    Oh, and DJ grew up in Myrtle Beach and his father was a head golf professional so he didn't lack for course access and good instruction. He played high level junior events including AJGA, and that takes resources. So although he may have had some dysfunction in his childhood, he also had advantages that many don't.




    DJ had resources. But many parents cannot control that. He seemed like a wild horse that couldn't be tamed. Went to, what, Coastal Carolina? Wouldn't exactly predict a World #1 out of most CCU grads. He found his form and focus relatively late in his career.



    I've probably lost sight of the original intent of this thread, but in general I strive for moderation. When my daughter was 8 I challenged her to place higher in USKids tournaments. I pressed her hard to practice 3 or 4 days a week for DCP events. She resisted, pouted, purposely underperformed at practice, etc.



    I explored my own goals for my daughter. Realized my goals for her are to enjoy the game, and to find a sport she can enjoy. Maybe it's golf, maybe not. Eased up on my expectations of her performance.



    Now she's 9, almost 10. For the past 40 days we have a near-daily practice schedule for DCP. Sometimes it's just watching a video or hitting 25 putts on a mat. But she puts up far less resistance, and with some subtle bribing is much more willing to listen and put in hours of more practice.



    This is because 1) she's older now. 2) I've relaxed my expectations, and I no longer press her for outcomes at tournaments, etc. It's all about her personal performance. I still push her, encourage her, give her all the resources I can. I certainly am not laissez-faire about it. But I put some of my expectations in check every day we work together.



    I saw some similarities in the OP's post to my own experiences, so I'm just giving my 2 cents.



    As for the LPGA, I'm personally not interested in pushing my daughter to do that. From what I can tell, that's about a 10-year career arc for the most talented. Not the same longevity as PGA players. But that's my personal objection.
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX Posts: 9,052 ClubWRX
    BertGA wrote:

    TigerMom wrote:
    BertGA wrote:
    TigerMom wrote:
    Redjeep83 wrote:
    Killer, what are your scores like? I think you should compete in some gong tournament too so you can relate? Maybe it will take the obsession of you playing golf through your daughter
    What obsession? A parent shouldn't try to help child? How many kids do you know who like to do everything that is good for them on their own, without prodding from parents? NONE Maybe this type of attitude is why Americans are falling behind the rest of the world in many things
    You must be kidding. At some level you at least have to understand there are cultural differences at play here. Much like there are different kinds of kids, there are different kinds of parenting AND coaching. The best coaches either 1) have their own method and mold the players to that, or 2) find a unique way to motivate each individual athlete. If you have the luxury of selecting your players, like Bill Belichick, you can be the same old A-hole and squeeze every bit of talent out of them. As a parent, unless you like adopting young athletes from broken families, you don't get to choose your team. It is given to you. So you have to find a way to motivate each one. If your model is so perfect, then please tell us how every single premiere athlete was raised in this same high-pressure, demanding childhood. And how no child, ever, blamed their parents for pressuring them so hard they learned to hate the sport, and loathe their parents for it.
    I am confused by your comment are you replying to me? yeah, I think almost every single premier LPGA tour player (except freaks like Thompson) grew up in a high pressure, demanding environment do you disagree?




    I do disagree. Funny you use Lexi for your example. She was home-schooled, presumably to focus on sports. Started winning Kids World at 8 years old. Set the record for youngest US Women's Open competitor at 12 years old. That sounds like the epitome of high pressure.



    What is she doing now? Taking time off from her career, breaking down on the 18th green after flubbing a chip, etc. If I had to guess, I'd say she is overwhelmed by the pressure to perform and succeed for her fans, her sponsors, her parents, etc. All that while growing up in an Instagram generation where she posts every workout, every celebrity ball event, etc.



    She isn't living her life for herself, she's living it for someone else. It could be her parents, it could be her fans. But the stress has broken through now. I hope she is able to find her inner peace and motivation and become a force on the LPGA again. But I wouldn't use her right now as an example of how to make it in the LPGA.



    And for every Tiger there is a Dustin Johnson who was supremely talented but underachieving, and found their motivation later in life.



    My point is, you want to be a tiger mom, so all you see are successful tiger mom stories. That's not always the road to success. I don't even think it's the most common road to success. But we all like to justify our own biases. I'm not saying kids don't need some motivation. I'm just saying there isn't one recipe for success. Sometimes you just let kids have fun until they get older and find a way to motivate themselves. Success at 10 years old does not predict success later in life.




    **** that post was $$. I agree with it all 100%
  • Mr. GrumpyMr. Grumpy The Quintana Changeup, sit em dwn Members Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Rule number 1.. Never advise parents how to parent



    Rule number 2.. Never ask parents of golfers for golf parenting advice



    If "never"is too strong of a word, substitute "it's rarely productive"
  • PixlPutterman PixlPutterman Look At My Lefty J33R(hey I can wish) Members Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 21, 2018 #71
    VNutz wrote:

    killer21 wrote:

    farmer wrote:


    She's NINE. She's a child.


    Yes, and the other 9 year olds are making a tonne of birdies, not to mention the odd ace. (Then they go for ice cream after)




    And I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of those girls will abandon the sport when they burn out in the next decade. Is that what you want for her? Let her learn to love the game, let her have fun. 49 as a 9 year old is fantastic!! My brother coaches a boys high school golf team and you'd be shocked how many cannot shoot that.




    100% This



    When I played in college I was the recruiter for our womens team. Very few of the girls we had actually wanted to play, they were all just there because their parents beat it into them.



    Your daughter HAS to want "it" more than you do for her. Other wise she will only being doing it to please you, which is NOT the foundation you build a healthy parent/child releationship on. This goes for all things in life.



    Our job as parents is to create the best environment for our kids to learn who they are, not to decide their future for them.



    If you really want to drive her to want to play better, then you have to find our what is fun for her in golf and make little games about it.



    The moment you make this more about what pleases you and she starts to not have fun, you lose.
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  • PixlPutterman PixlPutterman Look At My Lefty J33R(hey I can wish) Members Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    TigerMom wrote:

    BertGA wrote:

    TigerMom wrote:

    Redjeep83 wrote:


    Killer, what are your scores like? I think you should compete in some gong tournament too so you can relate? Maybe it will take the obsession of you playing golf through your daughter




    What obsession?



    A parent shouldn't try to help child?



    How many kids do you know who like to do everything that is good for them on their own, without prodding from parents?



    NONE



    Maybe this type of attitude is why Americans are falling behind the rest of the world in many things




    You must be kidding. At some level you at least have to understand there are cultural differences at play here.



    Much like there are different kinds of kids, there are different kinds of parenting AND coaching. The best coaches either 1) have their own method and mold the players to that, or 2) find a unique way to motivate each individual athlete. If you have the luxury of selecting your players, like Bill Belichick, you can be the same old A-hole and squeeze every bit of talent out of them. As a parent, unless you like adopting young athletes from broken families, you don't get to choose your team. It is given to you. So you have to find a way to motivate each one.



    If your model is so perfect, then please tell us how every single premiere athlete was raised in this same high-pressure, demanding childhood. And how no child, ever, blamed their parents for pressuring them so hard they learned to hate the sport, and loathe their parents for it.




    I am confused by your comment



    are you replying to me?



    yeah, I think almost every single premier LPGA tour player (except freaks like Thompson) grew up in a high pressure, demanding environment



    do you disagree?




    And for the 100 or so gals on the LPGA like this (or any other sport), how many hundreds of thousands of kids who didnt make the tour have wrecked relationships with their parents because they pushed way to hard.



    You cant sample the very top 1% and ignore the rest to push a certain parenting style.
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  • PixlPutterman PixlPutterman Look At My Lefty J33R(hey I can wish) Members Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    You need to decide what the goal is........her love the game and get pretty **** good.......or be the next LPGA champion........



    One can be done fairly easy with out risking great harm to your relationship with her, the other you have to be lucky.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    VNutz wrote:

    killer21 wrote:

    farmer wrote:


    She's NINE. She's a child.


    Yes, and the other 9 year olds are making a tonne of birdies, not to mention the odd ace. (Then they go for ice cream after)




    And I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of those girls will abandon the sport when they burn out in the next decade. Is that what you want for her? Let her learn to love the game, let her have fun. 49 as a 9 year old is fantastic!! My brother coaches a boys high school golf team and you'd be shocked how many cannot shoot that.




    100% This



    When I played in college I was the recruiter for our womens team. Very few of the girls we had actually wanted to play, they were all just there because their parents beat it into them.



    Your daughter HAS to want "it" more than you do for her. Other wise she will only being doing it to please you, which is NOT the foundation you build a healthy parent/child releationship on. This goes for all things in life.



    Our job as parents is to create the best environment for our kids to learn who they are, not to decide their future for them.



    If you really want to drive her to want to play better, then you have to find our what is fun for her in golf and make little games about it.



    The moment you make this more about what pleases you and she starts to not have fun, you lose.




    One of the reasons colleges recruit so heavily overseas I am sure.
  • PixlPutterman PixlPutterman Look At My Lefty J33R(hey I can wish) Members Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 21, 2018 #75


    VNutz wrote:

    killer21 wrote:

    farmer wrote:


    She's NINE. She's a child.


    Yes, and the other 9 year olds are making a tonne of birdies, not to mention the odd ace. (Then they go for ice cream after)




    And I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of those girls will abandon the sport when they burn out in the next decade. Is that what you want for her? Let her learn to love the game, let her have fun. 49 as a 9 year old is fantastic!! My brother coaches a boys high school golf team and you'd be shocked how many cannot shoot that.




    100% This



    When I played in college I was the recruiter for our womens team. Very few of the girls we had actually wanted to play, they were all just there because their parents beat it into them.



    Your daughter HAS to want "it" more than you do for her. Other wise she will only being doing it to please you, which is NOT the foundation you build a healthy parent/child releationship on. This goes for all things in life.



    Our job as parents is to create the best environment for our kids to learn who they are, not to decide their future for them.



    If you really want to drive her to want to play better, then you have to find our what is fun for her in golf and make little games about it.



    The moment you make this more about what pleases you and she starts to not have fun, you lose.




    One of the reasons colleges recruit so heavily overseas I am sure.




    Very possible.



    We had 8 gals on the team and if I remember correctly, 3 were from Asian countries, 1 from Australia, 1 from the UK and 1 from Canada.



    Craziest part (we were a very small NAIA school) I was allowed to offer a full ride if they could break 75. We were that starving for ladies.



    That said we had some lights out talent. One of our gals, from South Korea if I remember correctly, could beat all our guys, from the mens tees, hung over. She was also the least interested in golf and burned out after 2 years and dropped out of school.
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  • isaacbmisaacbm Members Posts: 3,273 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    If my nine-year-old wasn’t making holes in one or multiple birdies per round I would simply pull her out of the game and send her overseas to work in a factory. By nine she should have everything figured out and clearly she doesn’t so the best bet is hard labour at this point... kids have to learn that life is hard...
  • RohlioRohlio Members Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    isaacbm wrote:


    If my nine-year-old wasn’t making holes in one or multiple birdies per round I would simply pull her out of the game and send her overseas to work in a factory. By nine she should have everything figured out and clearly she doesn’t so the best bet is hard labour at this point... kids have to learn that life is hard...




    Hahaha perfect...



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  • evgolferevgolfer Members Posts: 186 ✭✭
    OP, I think you, as your daughter's parent, are best placed to decide how much to push and how much to hold back, and not some anonymous internet keyboard ninjas.



    The knee jerk response on this forum to parents who want to push their kids to work at something and be successful at it, is to accuse the parent of being overbearing, and basically a mean bully to their child trying to live vicariously through their golf career. That can certainly be the case, but I think the fact that you are being thoughtful about this and seeking advice means you care about the result for your kid and want what's best.



    Parents absolutely should teach their kids about hard work, trying to succeed, working at something until they are successful, even the boring and mundane parts. Those are valuable lessons. Not everything in life is fun. Things that are in the end worthwhile, almost always require some hard work and sacrifice.



    Maybe your daughter will be on the LPGA, or maybe she gives up golf in middle school for the violin. Who knows? Just make sure you don't give her more than she can handle, and make sure she has time for fun and to be a kid. However don't think hard work is any less valuable a life lesson for your daughter than having fun and eating ice cream, on the say so of members of this forum.
  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 22, 2018 #79
    evgolfer wrote:


    OP, I think you, as your daughter's parent, are best placed to decide how much to push and how much to hold back, and not some anonymous internet keyboard ninjas.



    The knee jerk response on this forum to parents who want to push their kids to work at something and be successful at it, is to accuse the parent of being overbearing, and basically a mean bully to their child trying to live vicariously through their golf career. That can certainly be the case, but I think the fact that you are being thoughtful about this and seeking advice means you care about the result for your kid and want what's best.



    Parents absolutely should teach their kids about hard work, trying to succeed, working at something until they are successful, even the boring and mundane parts. Those are valuable lessons. Not everything in life is fun. Things that are in the end worthwhile, almost always require some hard work and sacrifice.



    Maybe your daughter will be on the LPGA, or maybe she gives up golf in middle school for the violin. Who knows? Just make sure you don't give her more than she can handle, and make sure she has time for fun and to be a kid. However don't think hard work is any less valuable a life lesson for your daughter than having fun and eating ice cream, on the say so of members of this forum.




    So should the OP take internet advice or not? You say no, then you give yours anyway.
  • evgolferevgolfer Members Posts: 186 ✭✭
    BertGA wrote:

    evgolfer wrote:


    OP, I think you, as your daughter's parent, are best placed to decide how much to push and how much to hold back, and not some anonymous internet keyboard ninjas.



    The knee jerk response on this forum to parents who want to push their kids to work at something and be successful at it, is to accuse the parent of being overbearing, and basically a mean bully to their child trying to live vicariously through their golf career. That can certainly be the case, but I think the fact that you are being thoughtful about this and seeking advice means you care about the result for your kid and want what's best.



    Parents absolutely should teach their kids about hard work, trying to succeed, working at something until they are successful, even the boring and mundane parts. Those are valuable lessons. Not everything in life is fun. Things that are in the end worthwhile, almost always require some hard work and sacrifice.



    Maybe your daughter will be on the LPGA, or maybe she gives up golf in middle school for the violin. Who knows? Just make sure you don't give her more than she can handle, and make sure she has time for fun and to be a kid. However don't think hard work is any less valuable a life lesson for your daughter than having fun and eating ice cream, on the say so of members of this forum.




    So should the OP take internet advice or not? You say no, then you give yours anyway.




    I think he should take whatever advice he finds to be of value.
  • killer21killer21 Killer Members Posts: 104 ✭✭
    Wow, lots of interesting comments.

    If you are a parent of a junior golfer you get it. There is some very good advice here.

    Patience is a virtue.
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