GIVEAWAY: PING Heppler Anser 2 Putter- ENTER HERE, Tour Edge Exotics EXS Pro 3W - ENTER HERE.

Most overrated big name architect is ???

1456810
10

Comments

  • krtgolfingkrtgolfing Members  1105WRX Points: 98Handicap: 9.3Posts: 1,105 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #212

    Another vote for Nicklaus.

    Posted:
    Callaway Rogue Sub Zero Driver
    Taylor Made M2 3 Wood
    Taylor Made M2 3 Hybrid
    Taylor Made PSI 4 Iron - Approach Wedge
    Titleist Vokey SM5 54* & 60*
    Odyssey Stroke Lab Black Double Wide Flow Neck Putter
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • mlecs03mlecs03 Members  92WRX Points: 87Handicap: 8Posts: 92 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Aug 13, 2019 #213

    Donald Ross, only because he always kicks my **** from the grave lol

    Realistically, I'm not a fan of Nicklaus designed courses. And I don't love what Fazio did to Oak Hill

    Posted:
  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers  1485WRX Points: 295Handicap: 12.3Posts: 1,485 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #214

    Rees Jones IMO. The open doctor I think has finally left the office thank god.

    Posted:
  • jerebear21jerebear21 Don't Go Left FLClubWRX  3434WRX Points: 268Handicap: 8.3Posts: 3,434 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #215

    yes

    Posted:
    thehuyhuynhfoundation.com
    FlashSz 1w ADTP, 3w ADIZ, 5w ADDI, Graphite Design
    Titleist 718 AP2 Accra i100, 718 TMB 4i, Accra i100
    Fourteen RM22 53/58 Accra i105
    SC Tour Newport // SC 009 //Byron DH89
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members  2415WRX Points: 953Posts: 2,415 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #216

    Yes, I would. Ross has a fair amount of courses that are nle or so private most people don't know about them. Are those courses his best work? Probably not, but Ross cranked out a ton of courses in his lifetime that were well above average in his day and even today (if you don't discount them on the basis of lack of distance for today's game).

    Posted:
  • FairwayFredFairwayFred Sponsors  4433WRX Points: 650Posts: 4,433 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #217

    How about Gil Hanse? People fawn over the guy like he is MacKenzie reincarnated but what has he done as far as original courses that is so great? He has done some good stuff yes (I've never played Castle Stuart) and has done some great restoration work but I feel like his original courses are very lacking when compared to his contemporaries and the accolades he gets.

    Posted:
    FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
    Ari Techner
    National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
    [email protected]
    IG:
    Twitter:
    (still a huge club HO)
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members  3866WRX Points: 396Posts: 3,866 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #218

    On -, @FairwayFred said:

    How about Gil Hanse? People fawn over the guy like he is MacKenzie reincarnated but what has he done as far as original courses that is so great? He has done some good stuff yes (I've never played Castle Stuart) and has done some great restoration work but I feel like his original courses are very lacking when compared to his contemporaries and the accolades he gets.

    IDK

    Boston Golf Club is considered a peer to Old Sandwich (Coore/Crenshaw);
    Rustic Canyon is spoken very highly of...as a public option...;
    Ohoopee Match Club has grown men drooling.

    Posted:
  • LlortamaiseyLlortamaisey Members  6087WRX Points: 449Posts: 6,087 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #219

    On -, @raynorfan1 said:

    On -, @FairwayFred said:

    How about Gil Hanse? People fawn over the guy like he is MacKenzie reincarnated but what has he done as far as original courses that is so great? He has done some good stuff yes (I've never played Castle Stuart) and has done some great restoration work but I feel like his original courses are very lacking when compared to his contemporaries and the accolades he gets.

    IDK

    Boston Golf Club is considered a peer to Old Sandwich (Coore/Crenshaw);
    Rustic Canyon is spoken very highly of...as a public option...;
    Ohoopee Match Club has grown men drooling.

    I’ve always thought Ohoopee is too one dimensional. What if you want play stroke play? I enjoyed Congaree more and I am not a Fazio fan at all.

    Posted:
  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members  3866WRX Points: 396Posts: 3,866 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #220

    On -, @Llortamaisey said:

    On -, @raynorfan1 said:

    On -, @FairwayFred said:

    How about Gil Hanse? People fawn over the guy like he is MacKenzie reincarnated but what has he done as far as original courses that is so great? He has done some good stuff yes (I've never played Castle Stuart) and has done some great restoration work but I feel like his original courses are very lacking when compared to his contemporaries and the accolades he gets.

    IDK

    Boston Golf Club is considered a peer to Old Sandwich (Coore/Crenshaw);
    Rustic Canyon is spoken very highly of...as a public option...;
    Ohoopee Match Club has grown men drooling.

    I’ve always thought Ohoopee is too one dimensional. What if you want play stroke play? I enjoyed Congaree more and I am not a Fazio fan at all.

    But that was clearly the directive from the owner - hard to criticize and architect for building exactly what the client wanted.

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4072WRX Points: 764Posts: 4,072 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #221

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @RichieHunt said:

    Roadking2003 wrote:

    Richie; My evaluation of a golf course has nothing to do with age and who designed it. I'm not that versed in course design, so I just ask a few questions;

    1. was it fun to play?

    2. was it challenging?

    3. was it beautiful (ocean, trees, etc)?

    4. what was the condition?

      5 was there a variety of holes?

    5. did you need to think a little or just get up and whack the ball?

      A good comparison is East Lake vs. Cabo del Sol. East Lake is boring and IMHO only highly rated due to the Bobby Jones connection and it was designed by Donald Ross. I played it and it doesn't make my top 100. On the other hand, Cabo del Sol is spectacular. It shines in all of the six areas listed above.

      Fun to play is the biggest factor for me. For instance, I really like playing a lot of Arnold Palmer designs because they are fun to play. Like Eagle Watch in Woodstock, GA. Probably wouldn't make the top-50 courses on any list in Georgia, but I would rather play that than play Echelon, East Lake, and Chateau Elan. I would rather play Victoria Hills in DeLand than play most higher priced courses and private clubs in the Orlando area.

      The thing with Ross is he designed a gazillion different courses. He's not going to roll 6's every time. But, his percentage of excellent clubs is way up there and they flat-out beat most of the designers we've seen in the past 30-years. Sure, there are people out there that rate courses based on their history, but I find for the most part the Ross', Tillinghast's and McKenzie's were just far superior overall.

    I mentioned that Ross courses are overrated in another discussion and got lots of strong opinions. Can you say that his best courses are better than Nicklaus'? Pinehurst, Plainfield, Scioto, Aronimink, Seminole, East Lake, Inverness, Oak Hill, Wannamoisett, Grove Park, Sagamore, French Lick, OR, Muirfield Village, Punta Espada, Castle Pines, Cabo del Sol, Shoal Creek, Mayacama, Pronghorn, May River, Dismal River, Castle Pines, Manele, Punta Mita, Ferry Point.

    I think Ross' best courses and worst courses are better than Nicklaus' best and worse courses. Nicklaus' designs are much more one dimensional than Ross' as Nicklaus' best courses are approach shot courses whereas Ross' best courses could be driving courses (Oak Hill), approach shot and short game courses (Pinehurst #2).

    As far as the worst Nicklaus courses, some of them are just dreadful and incredibly un-fun to play (Corkscrew). Ross' worst courses (Delray Beach) were not terrible designs or torture chambers, just less interesting to Ross' standards and most of the time the course didn't have the resources to stay in good condition or was outdated due the distance gains from modern equipment.

    RH

    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4072WRX Points: 764Posts: 4,072 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #222

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @RichieHunt said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @RichieHunt said:

    Roadking2003 wrote:

    Richie; My evaluation of a golf course has nothing to do with age and who designed it. I'm not that versed in course design, so I just ask a few questions;

    1. was it fun to play?

    2. was it challenging?

    3. was it beautiful (ocean, trees, etc)?

    4. what was the condition?

      5 was there a variety of holes?

    5. did you need to think a little or just get up and whack the ball?

      A good comparison is East Lake vs. Cabo del Sol. East Lake is boring and IMHO only highly rated due to the Bobby Jones connection and it was designed by Donald Ross. I played it and it doesn't make my top 100. On the other hand, Cabo del Sol is spectacular. It shines in all of the six areas listed above.

      Fun to play is the biggest factor for me. For instance, I really like playing a lot of Arnold Palmer designs because they are fun to play. Like Eagle Watch in Woodstock, GA. Probably wouldn't make the top-50 courses on any list in Georgia, but I would rather play that than play Echelon, East Lake, and Chateau Elan. I would rather play Victoria Hills in DeLand than play most higher priced courses and private clubs in the Orlando area.

      The thing with Ross is he designed a gazillion different courses. He's not going to roll 6's every time. But, his percentage of excellent clubs is way up there and they flat-out beat most of the designers we've seen in the past 30-years. Sure, there are people out there that rate courses based on their history, but I find for the most part the Ross', Tillinghast's and McKenzie's were just far superior overall.

    I mentioned that Ross courses are overrated in another discussion and got lots of strong opinions. Can you say that his best courses are better than Nicklaus'? Pinehurst, Plainfield, Scioto, Aronimink, Seminole, East Lake, Inverness, Oak Hill, Wannamoisett, Grove Park, Sagamore, French Lick, OR, Muirfield Village, Punta Espada, Castle Pines, Cabo del Sol, Shoal Creek, Mayacama, Pronghorn, May River, Dismal River, Castle Pines, Manele, Punta Mita, Ferry Point.

    I think Ross' best courses and worst courses are better than Nicklaus' best and worse courses. Nicklaus' designs are much more one dimensional than Ross' as Nicklaus' best courses are approach shot courses whereas Ross' best courses could be driving courses (Oak Hill), approach shot and short game courses (Pinehurst #2).

    As far as the worst Nicklaus courses, some of them are just dreadful and incredibly un-fun to play (Corkscrew). Ross' worst courses (Delray Beach) were not terrible designs or torture chambers, just less interesting to Ross' standards and most of the time the course didn't have the resources to stay in good condition or was outdated due the distance gains from modern equipment.

    RH

    What do you mean by driving, approach, and short game courses? The Nicklaus courses I’ve played have all had interesting choices to make in all three categories.

    Where the difficulty lies and what makes the difference between a good round an average round and poor round.

    Murifield Village is an easy driving course. The approaches are incredibly difficult. Same with Pawley's Plantation, Corkscrew, Bear Lakes, Sherwood, etc.

    Muirfield Village, Sherwood, etc. are awesome courses, but as far as diversity goes he's an approach shot designer.

    RH

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4072WRX Points: 764Posts: 4,072 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #223

    On -, @Roadking2003 said:

    On -, @RichieHunt said:

    As far as the worst Nicklaus courses, some of them are just dreadful and incredibly un-fun to play (Corkscrew).

    I've never played a Nicklaus course that was "just dreadful and incredibly un-fun to play", but I"ve only played 40 of his courses.
    Do you have a list of Nicklaus courses that fit that description?

    Old Corkscrew
    Pawleys Plantation
    PGA National
    Angeles National
    Bear Creek

    RH

    Posted:
  • jerebear21jerebear21 Don't Go Left FLClubWRX  3434WRX Points: 268Handicap: 8.3Posts: 3,434 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #224

    9-1

    Posted:
    thehuyhuynhfoundation.com
    FlashSz 1w ADTP, 3w ADIZ, 5w ADDI, Graphite Design
    Titleist 718 AP2 Accra i100, 718 TMB 4i, Accra i100
    Fourteen RM22 53/58 Accra i105
    SC Tour Newport // SC 009 //Byron DH89
  • jerebear21jerebear21 Don't Go Left FLClubWRX  3434WRX Points: 268Handicap: 8.3Posts: 3,434 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #225

    MV; it's one of the greatest parkland course I've ever played although I can do without no.16. That hole looks like a par3 built here in florida by fazio and doesn't fit into the land.

    Posted:
    thehuyhuynhfoundation.com
    FlashSz 1w ADTP, 3w ADIZ, 5w ADDI, Graphite Design
    Titleist 718 AP2 Accra i100, 718 TMB 4i, Accra i100
    Fourteen RM22 53/58 Accra i105
    SC Tour Newport // SC 009 //Byron DH89
  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers  1485WRX Points: 295Handicap: 12.3Posts: 1,485 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #226

    On -, @Roadking2003 said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @RichieHunt said:

    Roadking2003 wrote:

    Richie; My evaluation of a golf course has nothing to do with age and who designed it. I'm not that versed in course design, so I just ask a few questions;

    1. was it fun to play?

    2. was it challenging?

    3. was it beautiful (ocean, trees, etc)?

    4. what was the condition?

      5 was there a variety of holes?

    5. did you need to think a little or just get up and whack the ball?

      A good comparison is East Lake vs. Cabo del Sol. East Lake is boring and IMHO only highly rated due to the Bobby Jones connection and it was designed by Donald Ross. I played it and it doesn't make my top 100. On the other hand, Cabo del Sol is spectacular. It shines in all of the six areas listed above.

      Fun to play is the biggest factor for me. For instance, I really like playing a lot of Arnold Palmer designs because they are fun to play. Like Eagle Watch in Woodstock, GA. Probably wouldn't make the top-50 courses on any list in Georgia, but I would rather play that than play Echelon, East Lake, and Chateau Elan. I would rather play Victoria Hills in DeLand than play most higher priced courses and private clubs in the Orlando area.

      The thing with Ross is he designed a gazillion different courses. He's not going to roll 6's every time. But, his percentage of excellent clubs is way up there and they flat-out beat most of the designers we've seen in the past 30-years. Sure, there are people out there that rate courses based on their history, but I find for the most part the Ross', Tillinghast's and McKenzie's were just far superior overall.

    I mentioned that Ross courses are overrated in another discussion and got lots of strong opinions. Can you say that his best courses are better than Nicklaus'?

    Nicklaus blows Ross away by a wide margin.

    Respectively disagree. I'm not a fan of Nicklaus's raised greens with heavy bunkering around many greens. My favorite Nicklaus is Mayacama personally, but I haven't played MV. Ross's courses have better greens IMO. One not mentioned which is one of my top 5 Ross courses is Essex County Club with great greens. Plainfield is outstanding which is my 2nd best Ross. If you take out all the "Nicklaus Designs", which isn't all Jack his work is better. I believe Jack Nicklaus Signature courses are his.

    Posted:
  • jerebear21jerebear21 Don't Go Left FLClubWRX  3434WRX Points: 268Handicap: 8.3Posts: 3,434 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #227

    it’s equally tough to take anyone seriously when they call Ross over rated but have only played 2 of his courses.

    Posted:
    thehuyhuynhfoundation.com
    FlashSz 1w ADTP, 3w ADIZ, 5w ADDI, Graphite Design
    Titleist 718 AP2 Accra i100, 718 TMB 4i, Accra i100
    Fourteen RM22 53/58 Accra i105
    SC Tour Newport // SC 009 //Byron DH89
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • jerebear21jerebear21 Don't Go Left FLClubWRX  3434WRX Points: 268Handicap: 8.3Posts: 3,434 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #228

    9-1

    Posted:
    thehuyhuynhfoundation.com
    FlashSz 1w ADTP, 3w ADIZ, 5w ADDI, Graphite Design
    Titleist 718 AP2 Accra i100, 718 TMB 4i, Accra i100
    Fourteen RM22 53/58 Accra i105
    SC Tour Newport // SC 009 //Byron DH89
  • Schley Schley Love ya don't tell ya enough! Kingdom of Saudi ArabiaMembers  1485WRX Points: 295Handicap: 12.3Posts: 1,485 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #229

    On -, @LICC said:

    I mentioned that Ross courses are overrated in another discussion and got lots of strong opinions. Can you say that his best courses are better than Nicklaus'? Pinehurst, Plainfield, Scioto, Aronimink, Seminole, East Lake, Inverness, Oak Hill, Wannamoisett, Grove Park, Sagamore, French Lick, OR, Muirfield Village, Punta Espada, Castle Pines, Cabo del Sol, Shoal Creek, Mayacama, Pronghorn, May River, Dismal River, Castle Pines, Manele, Punta Mita, Ferry Point.

    You are forgetting Oakland Hills for Ross btw. As this thread is about overrated GCA's, why is your comparison even valid for this thread's purpose? Is comparing the best/worst courses for each a way to judge who is overrated? Both Nicklaus and Ross have designed about 400 courses give or take. That is a huge amount, both putting them into the top 5 all time in terms of number of courses I would think.
    Since you mentioned it, do you really think Ferry Point stands up to any of Ross's top 20 even?

    Ross was a genius designer and amazed he was able to get around as he did in an age before commercial air travel was widely utilized.

    Posted:
10

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.