Bryson talking challenges of one length short irons.

[JDCON]

I had a set a single length Cobra Forged Tec black I was gaming this summer. This week, I traded them on here for a set of Srixon ZU85/Z785 combo set. I loved the single length irons and how practicing any one iron essentially gave me practice for the whole set. I _thought_ they were great irons. Yesterday, the Srixons arrived in the mail and I took them out to play. I had my best round of the season after trading away the single length irons and going back to normal irons. Single length irons were a waste of a golf season _for me_.

[OsnolaKinnard]

> @Golfjack said:

> If they could make all the clubs at PW length, I'd be willing to try. Hybrid head 4-6, SGI 7-8, CB 9-PW

 

You can. Edel will do whatever you want.

[Man_O_War]

probably best to have a tiered shaft length. All long irons have same length, mid irons another length and so on. it would be ridiculous to have a 3 iron shaft across all clubs lol

[OsnolaKinnard]

> @phatchrisrules said:

> The only way to do SL really well in my opinion is you need a blended set of clubs and blended shafts. I think you need something that would flight lower with more control in the short irons 8-P with like a bladed or smaller cavity. Combo that with heavier and stouter shafts to promote the flight window you want and you should be good to go. Work progressively backwards from there. I always though AMT shafts would make a lot of sense in a SL build but they don't seem to really be offered much in these type of heads.

 

That is exactly what Edel Golf does.

[Tugu]

It would seem that if the long irons need low and deep CG, the short iron requires the opposite. Is this what Bryson tried to do with that Frankenstein looking wedge? Even if that's fixed for the full shots, what does one do with a wedge that swings faster, has high and forward CG to keep the flight down on full shots, when one is faced with a short pin 30 yard pitch?

[jordan2240]

Seems pretty simple to me - if SL made the game easier, more pros (on any tour) would use them. Bigger driver heads came out, and all the pros switched. Better balls came out, and all the pros switched. The 'claw grip' became a thing, and many pros switched. Putter grips got thicker, and nearly all pros switched. So far, one pro of any notoriety is playing single length, and seemingly having to constantly make adjustments to get the most out of them. I'm a hack, and they made no difference in my game.

[MountainGoat]

I'd like to suggest that the wedge problem isn't the clubs, it's Bryson's use of them. Single length clubs pretty much require that you have a variety of partial swings to choose from, particularly at the short end. Your ability to control 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 shots is central you your ability to be able to control both the height of the shot and the amount of spin you put on the ball. But, Bryson's swing technique doesn't allow for partial shots very well. Honestly, when was the last time you watched him saw off a gap wedge. If he can't go full speed, he's got a very limited menu of available shots. He's trying to solve his problem with technology when the real issue is with technique.

[1timothy.davidson]

I started taking golf seriously about 3 years ago after about a 15 year lay off. I started with a set of variable length for about a year and switched over to one lengths. I saw an immediate improvement in my iron play, though my short game was shit, but it always was. After practicing I’ve gotten the hang of but it takes time. I can’t see myself going back. I started with the f7 and now the f9s and see the improvements cobra is making.

[NRJyzr]

> @jordan2240 said:

> Seems pretty simple to me - if SL made the game easier, more pros (on any tour) would use them. Bigger driver heads came out, and all the pros switched. Better balls came out, and all the pros switched. The 'claw grip' became a thing, and many pros switched. Putter grips got thicker, and nearly all pros switched. So far, one pro of any notoriety is playing single length, and seemingly having to constantly make adjustments to get the most out of them. I'm a hack, and they made no difference in my game.

 

Problem is, its not that simple. Golf is just like baseball in that its heavily invested in traditions, and changes slowly. Single Length irons are too far outside the norm for most to try, especially as they've built their games with VL equipment.

 

If the SL concept sticks around long enough, I could see there possibly being a pro coming up who learned on SL and sticks with it into his pro career.

[OsnolaKinnard]

> @MountainGoat said:

> I'd like to suggest that the wedge problem isn't the clubs, it's Bryson's use of them. Single length clubs pretty much require that you have a variety of partial swings to choose from, particularly at the short end. Your ability to control 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 shots is central you your ability to be able to control both the height of the shot and the amount of spin you put on the ball. But, Bryson's swing technique doesn't allow for partial shots very well. Honestly, when was the last time you watched him saw off a gap wedge. If he can't go full speed, he's got a very limited menu of available shots. He's trying to solve his problem with technology when the real issue is with technique.

 

I am no Dechambeau, but yes learning to hit those shots is important and something I've done. Then again, as I've mentioned in another forum, I use a sort of 'modified' Dave Pelz approach. I have a 1/2 and 3/4 swing with 4 clubs (PW, GW, SW, LW) and have a variety of distances, and I hit. one of two shots...either a 'high floater' or a "low spinner" that checks up and releases. When I go to the range, I bet I make less than 20 full swings. The majority of the bucket is hit using these '100 yard and in' shots...and it has paid off on the course. My last round, I had 3 birdies and I attribute it to getting it close from inside 100 yards and making the putt. I also had 4 disaster holes related to hitting drives OB, but that's another topic for another time.

 

One thing I REALLY like about the SL Irons...I feel like they have improved my greenside chipping. I have better posture, make more consistent contact, and the ball flight/rollout is more predictable for me.

 

 

 

[MountainGoat]

> @OsnolaKinnard said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > I'd like to suggest that the wedge problem isn't the clubs, it's Bryson's use of them. Single length clubs pretty much require that you have a variety of partial swings to choose from, particularly at the short end. Your ability to control 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 shots is central you your ability to be able to control both the height of the shot and the amount of spin you put on the ball. But, Bryson's swing technique doesn't allow for partial shots very well. Honestly, when was the last time you watched him saw off a gap wedge. If he can't go full speed, he's got a very limited menu of available shots. He's trying to solve his problem with technology when the real issue is with technique.

>

> I am no Dechambeau, but yes learning to hit those shots is important and something I've done. Then again, as I've mentioned in another forum, I use a sort of 'modified' Dave Pelz approach. I have a 1/2 and 3/4 swing with 4 clubs (PW, GW, SW, LW) and have a variety of distances, and I hit. one of two shots...either a 'high floater' or a "low spinner" that checks up and releases. When I go to the range, I bet I make less than 20 full swings. The majority of the bucket is hit using these '100 yard and in' shots...and it has paid off on the course. My last round, I had 3 birdies and I attribute it to getting it close from inside 100 yards and making the putt. I also had 4 disaster holes related to hitting drives OB, but that's another topic for another time.

>

> One thing I REALLY like about the SL Irons...I feel like they have improved my greenside chipping. I have better posture, make more consistent contact, and the ball flight/rollout is more predictable for me.

 

My approach is very similar. Most of my practice these days is devoted to partial swings inside 100 yards. One thing I’m finding, though, is that I can’t grip these clubs down the way I might a SW or even a conventional GW. There just isn’t enough swing weight left to allow me to properly feel the head. So, partial shots are are done with the club held at full length. Judging by all the lead tape on Bryson’s wedges, I’m guessing he’s got a similar problem.

 

 

[Tree Levino]

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @OsnolaKinnard said:

> > > @MountainGoat said:

> > > I'd like to suggest that the wedge problem isn't the clubs, it's Bryson's use of them. Single length clubs pretty much require that you have a variety of partial swings to choose from, particularly at the short end. Your ability to control 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 shots is central you your ability to be able to control both the height of the shot and the amount of spin you put on the ball. But, Bryson's swing technique doesn't allow for partial shots very well. Honestly, when was the last time you watched him saw off a gap wedge. If he can't go full speed, he's got a very limited menu of available shots. He's trying to solve his problem with technology when the real issue is with technique.

> >

> > I am no Dechambeau, but yes learning to hit those shots is important and something I've done. Then again, as I've mentioned in another forum, I use a sort of 'modified' Dave Pelz approach. I have a 1/2 and 3/4 swing with 4 clubs (PW, GW, SW, LW) and have a variety of distances, and I hit. one of two shots...either a 'high floater' or a "low spinner" that checks up and releases. When I go to the range, I bet I make less than 20 full swings. The majority of the bucket is hit using these '100 yard and in' shots...and it has paid off on the course. My last round, I had 3 birdies and I attribute it to getting it close from inside 100 yards and making the putt. I also had 4 disaster holes related to hitting drives OB, but that's another topic for another time.

> >

> > One thing I REALLY like about the SL Irons...I feel like they have improved my greenside chipping. I have better posture, make more consistent contact, and the ball flight/rollout is more predictable for me.

>

> My approach is very similar. Most of my practice these days is devoted to partial swings inside 100 yards. One thing I’m finding, though, is that I can’t grip these clubs down the way I might a SW or even a conventional GW. There just isn’t enough swing weight left to allow me to properly feel the head. So, partial shots are are done with the club held at full length. **Judging by all the lead tape on Bryson’s wedges, I’m guessing he’s got a similar problem.**

>

>

 

He's a tinkerer. My guess is that he doesn't continue with them for his whole career.

[Tugu]

 

 

>

> He's a tinkerer. My guess is that he doesn't continue with them for his whole career.

 

Imagine if Dechambeau did goto variable length irons...would this just blow up the servers here?

[Andygolderson]

> @OsnolaKinnard said:

> > @bluedot said:

>...I love the results amd do not see myself.going away from this concept.

>

> The performance of the 6 and 7 irons are what I expect. The 5 iron...has taken some adjustment. I hit it high enough, but sometimes I dont. That being said...I do not have very many 175-185 yard shots. I am often at like 190-200 or 160 or less. As far as the low trajectory of the 5 iron....the wind blows.in corpus christi... CONSTANTLY....and a low bullet that flies about 170 and rolls a bit is not a bad shot to have.

>

> This.should.not be an either or proposition...just find what works for your game.

>

 

I also share this opinion. For some reason the 5i and sometimes the 6i are the only issues i have. Just need to adapt to them, or forget that they should be different and pretend it's an 8 or Pw. i think they might actually be _**too**_ heavy. My Hybrid and 3i utility are easier to hit than my 5 and are in a similar range. I think it's because they're lighter, or at least they feel lighter.

Seems to be mostly mental.

 

[Howard_Jones]

The theory behind single length is good, but like many other theories, they are far from perfect real life. Maybe the "best" thing about SL is that many players has open up their eyes for options to the classic 4/8" who aint perfect either, and has made "something else"....3/8", 5/16", 2/8" or a metric slope can be used to make both the short and the long end right for each player since we all are different to start with. Not to high jack this tread, (but maybe i do?),

 

im adding a few options who aint 4/8" or SL and can be made by anyone at home, based on a classic set from OEM or standard components. All options here is "the poor mans MOI match", but we DONT have to follow that resistance slope, we can make it as we like. The charts is based on sets that has the same SW value for all clubs from OEM and 4/8" between clubs, where ive used the #9 iron as "favorite club" or the one we duplicate on resistance.

 

The 10.7 mm set up dont need any weight compensation, its butt cut only to get a set very close to MOI matched with a slope of 1.1 SWP pr inch.

 

 

 

 

[TomWishon]

> @bluedot said:

> I think this is the biggest question that everybody has had about the single length idea; can you be as accurate with a wedge the length of a six iron as you can with a shorter version? And while the concept of one length/one swing/one plane, etc. is attractive, this seems to be a BIG hurdle. I shorten up down to the steel when I chip, and I do it for control and accuracy. That's a guiding principle of golf clubs, right?

 

That's the #1 reason why an 8 iron length is better for single length than a 6 iron length. The only downside of having an 8 iron length is that you have to be careful in analyzing what will be your lowest loft iron in the single length set will be. The shorter 8 iron length means you have less clubhead speed than you would with a 6 iron length so lower lofts become harder to hit high enough to ensure full carry distance. In general, when using an 8 iron length single length set, if your iron clubhead speed is not over 75mph, your lowest loft iron would be around 27-28*. So the solution after finding your lowest loft iron you can elevate sufficiently is to use hybrids for those lower lofts at a length that would be +1.5" longer than the 8 iron single length. But that's easier to do to fill out the lower loft end of the set with hybrids than it is to get used to hitting wedges that are a 6 iron length. Bottom line is that 8 iron length makes it far easier to adapt to the single length wedges than 6 iron length.

[bluedot]

> @TomWishon said:

> > @bluedot said:

> > I think this is the biggest question that everybody has had about the single length idea; can you be as accurate with a wedge the length of a six iron as you can with a shorter version? And while the concept of one length/one swing/one plane, etc. is attractive, this seems to be a BIG hurdle. I shorten up down to the steel when I chip, and I do it for control and accuracy. That's a guiding principle of golf clubs, right?

>

> That's the #1 reason why an 8 iron length is better for single length than a 6 iron length. The only downside of having an 8 iron length is that you have to be careful in analyzing what will be your lowest loft iron in the single length set will be. The shorter 8 iron length means you have less clubhead speed than you would with a 6 iron length so lower lofts become harder to hit high enough to ensure full carry distance. In general, when using an 8 iron length single length set, if your iron clubhead speed is not over 75mph, your lowest loft iron would be around 27-28*. So the solution after finding your lowest loft iron you can elevate sufficiently is to use hybrids for those lower lofts at a length that would be +1.5" longer than the 8 iron single length. But that's easier to do to fill out the lower loft end of the set with hybrids than it is to get used to hitting wedges that are a 6 iron length. Bottom line is that 8 iron length makes it far easier to adapt to the single length wedges than 6 iron length.

 

Thank you, Tom, and I would agree 100%. 6 iron is the lowest lofted iron that I carry, and I don't hit it very well at that. The idea of ALL my irons being that length is more that unappealing. I also like the idea of hybrids that are 1.5" longer than the irons, but it begs the question of wedges that are SHORTER by that much than the rest of the irons. In other words, a set of maybe three lengths? Might that also more likely to simplify the fitting process, which seems to me to be a tough hurdle for the SL clubs?

[TomWishon]

> @bluedot said:

>

> Thank you, Tom, and I would agree 100%. 6 iron is the lowest lofted iron that I carry, and I don't hit it very well at that. The idea of ALL my irons being that length is more that unappealing. I also like the idea of hybrids that are 1.5" longer than the irons, but it begs the question of wedges that are SHORTER by that much than the rest of the irons. In other words, a set of maybe three lengths? Might that also more likely to simplify the fitting process, which seems to me to be a tough hurdle for the SL clubs?

 

You certainly can go with three different lengths or even two in a set of irons but if you do that, you give up one of the main reasons that single length even exists which is to have each iron end up with the same length, same total weight, same swingweight, same MOI, same balance point, same identical feel, same swing plane, same stance/posture. Having everything the same is what potentially opens the door for achieving better swing repeatability and from that a higher level of shot consistency with the irons. When going with two or three different lengths, you can build them to have the same MOI which can help with making swing feel similar in each iron, but you still won't have the same total weight, same balance point, same swing plane or same stance/posture so it would not have all swing feel/swing repeatability elements the same.

 

My experience designing a single length set was truly interesting because it taught me a few more things that I would not have been able to understand or learn had I not done that design. A big one on this list is that I now feel that the old usual half inch increments for iron sets is not good for most golfers because it makes the wedges too short. And from that I do feel that most golfers would gain in wedge consistency if their wedges were longer than what is the norm in standard sets. I think current wedge lengths force too many golfers to bend over too much or crouch down too much which leads to less consistency. Having a little more length in the wedges helps the golfer MORE COMFORTABLY retain his spine angle through the shot and swing more relaxed through the shot.

 

I am not advocating single length for every golfer. When fit right for length, lie, loft gaps and set makeup, single length can certainly work well for any golfer, but it is different and there will be golfers who just won't be comfortable with such a big change. For those using conventional irons with incremental lengths, if you go with 3/8" increments you have zero problems with club to club distance gaps and you end up with wedges that are longer than they would have been had the set been done with half inch increments. So whether it is an 8 iron length single length set or a conventional set with 3/8" increments, ending up with longer wedges is IMO a good thing for a very high percetage of golfers.

[Tugu]

> @TomWishon said:

> > @bluedot said:

> >

> > Thank you, Tom, and I would agree 100%. 6 iron is the lowest lofted iron that I carry, and I don't hit it very well at that. The idea of ALL my irons being that length is more that unappealing. I also like the idea of hybrids that are 1.5" longer than the irons, but it begs the question of wedges that are SHORTER by that much than the rest of the irons. In other words, a set of maybe three lengths? Might that also more likely to simplify the fitting process, which seems to me to be a tough hurdle for the SL clubs?

>

> You certainly can go with three different lengths or even two in a set of irons but if you do that, you give up one of the main reasons that single length even exists which is to have each iron end up with the same length, same total weight, same swingweight, same MOI, same balance point, same identical feel, same swing plane, same stance/posture. Having everything the same is what potentially opens the door for achieving better swing repeatability and from that a higher level of shot consistency with the irons. When going with two or three different lengths, you can build them to have the same MOI which can help with making swing feel similar in each iron, but you still won't have the same total weight, same balance point, same swing plane or same stance/posture so it would not have all swing feel/swing repeatability elements the same.

>

> My experience designing a single length set was truly interesting because it taught me a few more things that I would not have been able to understand or learn had I not done that design. A big one on this list is that I now feel that the old usual half inch increments for iron sets is not good for most golfers because it makes the wedges too short. And from that I do feel that most golfers would gain in wedge consistency if their wedges were longer than what is the norm in standard sets. I think current wedge lengths force too many golfers to bend over too much or crouch down too much which leads to less consistency. Having a little more length in the wedges helps the golfer MORE COMFORTABLY retain his spine angle through the shot and swing more relaxed through the shot.

>

> I am not advocating single length for every golfer. When fit right for length, lie, loft gaps and set makeup, single length can certainly work well for any golfer, but it is different and there will be golfers who just won't be comfortable with such a big change. For those using conventional irons with incremental lengths, if you go with 3/8" increments you have zero problems with club to club distance gaps and you end up with wedges that are longer than they would have been had the set been done with half inch increments. So whether it is an 8 iron length single length set or a conventional set with 3/8" increments, ending up with longer wedges is IMO a good thing for a very high percetage of golfers.

 

So would I choose the 7 iron length I liked and go up and down in 3/8" increments?