The importance of keeping the right arm above the left during the takeaway.

[Frankensteins Monster]

For years I struggled with crossing the line at the top, humping goats all over the place like a rural Scottsman, flipping hands around only to make contact and hitting it left or right. I struggled swinging and the swing always felt like too much effort. I'd make swing changes but they would never last too long. They were mostly band aids. I've been a mid single digit handicap for a good portion of the past decade but never could get to the point where the swing wasn't all about timing with too much effort. A week ago I was looking at Adam Scott's swing and noticed something that he does, and pretty much every other player too. They keep the right forearm above the left arm in the backswing when looking at the swing from the face on. Me, left forearm was almost immediately going rolling higher than the right. I wasn't sucking the club under the plain much at all so I never thought to look at this part of the takeaway.

 

After realizing that I headed out to the range the next day and forced my right arm to stay above the left until it naturally reached the same level as the left which was at the top of the swing. Gone, IMMEDIATELY, was across the line at the top. Gone, IMMEDIATELY, was the need to reroute the club and dropping it so far inside I had to get more than one goat a pregnancy test. Gone, IMMEDIATELY, was the need to time my swing. It felt really awkward but it was working. By the end of my first range session it felt comfortable. It also allowed my shoulders to turn on a better plain that more closely resembles 90 degrees to spine tilt at address. I'm not 100% cured yet, but, with only two range sessions, the swing feels like night and day. The swing looks good and it feels good. The range ball flight says it's working. The course will be the ultimate test.

 

If you're struggling going across the line at the top, are having trouble rerouting the club, or are humping the goat, or all three, or hell, just check it anyway, it may be your takeaway. It may be an issue like it was for me.

[joeunc]

Dan(iteach) would give this advice to lots of folks as well and it's a great backswing tip for those that need to get more up and not as much around. It always shortens the backswing.

Another similar feel I like to use to keep the right elbow pit (below the biceps) facing vertical longer, This also helps out the backswing to get on plane better.

thanks!!

[stevw]

Is there a drill/video that shows this working?

Thanks, Steve

[vaterman]

Hey Monster. I appreciate you posting this. I had a lesson with our club Pro today and he told me to work on something which i believe have the same effect that you write here. I should work on getting left side bend which can be descriped as pushing the left shoulder straight down towards my left foot as my initial move in takeaway. I experienced the same results as you. I think i felt for the first time to hit the ball with a forward shaft lean at impact. Felt very awkward but the result was amazing.

[ksuchris2000]

I'm having a hard time visualizing this past P3. Are you saying that the right arm stays above left throughout backswing? Genuinely interested because being atl is something that i've fought off an on.

[joeunc]

[quote name='ksuchris2000' timestamp='1396994584' post='9049509']
I'm having a hard time visualizing this past P3. Are you saying that the right arm stays above left throughout backswing? Genuinely interested because being atl is something that i've fought off an on.
[/quote]

it's not going to stay above the whole time, it's the feeling that it is that makes the backswing better. Eventually as you go up the left arm will catch up. Mine starts catching up about chest high or so as I go up.

[ksuchris2000]

[quote name='joeunc' timestamp='1396996525' post='9049705']
[quote name='ksuchris2000' timestamp='1396994584' post='9049509']
I'm having a hard time visualizing this past P3. Are you saying that the right arm stays above left throughout backswing? Genuinely interested because being atl is something that i've fought off an on.
[/quote]

it's not going to stay above the whole time, it's the feeling that it is that makes the backswing better. Eventually as you go up the left arm will catch up. Mine starts catching up about chest high or so as I go up.
[/quote]

Ah. Thats what I was thinking. THanks, that helps.

[lastmacuser]

Is this true with reverse K setup and spine tilt.

[joeunc]

[quote name='lastmacuser' timestamp='1396997775' post='9049807']
Is this true with reverse K setup and spine tilt.
[/quote]

sure

[h71y6]

when you do this from the start, hands lead the way or shoulders? Hands only until the shoulders are forced to follow or vice versa?

[vaterman]

For me it is to start the takeaway with pressing left shoulder Down toward left foot. I get the feeling that the left shoulder "comes Down" and then I have room for the arms to go up in the backswing. It is important however to remember that you also have shoulder turn 90 degree to the spine. But I get that feeling after getting left shoulder Down.

[Frankensteins Monster]

when you do this from the start, hands lead the way or shoulders? Hands only until the shoulders are forced to follow or vice versa?

 

It could be anything that initiates it as long as the right forearm stays on top of the left until the left arm is at least parallel to the ground. See Adam Scott below for an example.

 

 

 

 

If I don't see the right elbow pit above the left in any of the positions I'm sucking the club in and rerouting it at the top across the line and dropping too far inside having to flip and time to make contact.

[tembolo1284]

Excellent thread Frankie!

[TB07]

The majority of tour players at a quarter of the way back have the right arm above the left. A huge fault amongst amateurs is to let the left arm get higher than the right too soon. This is normally from a rolled, inside takeaway.

[Frankensteins Monster]

Found a YouTube video for a demonstration and another swing thought to keep the right arm above the left.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMW4joXC78[/media]

[claydog99]

I saw this tip from somewhere a week or so ago. And then you start looking and see all/most the pros doing it...how do we miss that? Towards the end of my first range session back yesterday I remembered it. I have lost yards in the last year trying to change my swing...9I now I'm lucky to hit it 120y now..but used to be 130ish. The 2-3 I felt that I did this correctly. ..145y! Had a little tailwind but HUGE difference in feel and distance. I was a definite left arm higher immediately guy ..not so much sucking it in, just rolling it. Very big key for most ppl IMO...can't wait to get back and try it some more!

[bigdriveandy]

wow. just rehearsing this feeling in my backswing in my desk chair here at work, this is kind of revolutionary for me right now.

[martynbirch]

something I am working on as advised by iteach to try and keep on plane. Video in my back yard net shows incredible changes for me, flat left wrist, club face totally square and on plane as well as right wrist hinged. As you say it shortens swing and feels more natural to whack through. Michael Breed promotes a similar feel to stop rolling face open in the first fix on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUzVowKHeMo

[lui_boy]

I was overdrawing most of my shots for a few weeks (felt too much in to out), forcing a fade didn't seem to help. Then last week began to focus on keeping that right arm above my left. Shots were so much better and went where I was aiming. All clubs including 3 wood off the deck, no more problem! I'm going to need to make this a checkpoint in my swing. Thanks for sharing!

[buckeyefl]

I demand trackman data with the appropriate numbers long with the new catch phrases for this technique for giving any type of consideration. It sounds like some of that old timey simplistic advice that has never helped a single golfer. Golf cannot be this easy and change can not come so quickly with such basic ideas unless backed by a spreadsheet and the comments of no less that 10 experts in biomechanics.

[C. Freeman]

I just got back from the range and trying this technique. Probably the easiest way for me to stop my arms from overrunning that I've seen so far. Rather than wait until I see the club out of the left corner of my eye, I just start swinging when I feel like my arms are even. It feels like it's a 3/4 swing, but I end up stopping short of parallel. Great tip.

[Frankensteins Monster]

What this also does is it allows you to shorten your swing while still making a full turn. That's something I've struggled with in the past. Trying to shorten the swing would never have any coil and it was me just stopping my hand rather than actually having a short swing. That's nearly impossible to time.

[mattwood]

I wonder if what this does is more about the shoulders than the arms i.e. keeps the shoulders from moving too horizontally and more inclined towards the direction of the ball.

[radiman]

[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1397049156' post='9053269']
Found a YouTube video for a demonstration and another swing thought to keep the right arm above the left.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMW4joXC78[/media]
[/quote]

Thanks for sharing this. I was struggling to get the feel down for what you were describing, but using this takeaway drill pretty much puts me in that position automatically. I have really been struggling to get into a good position at the top, and I think this may get me on the right track. Very cool.

[Ezgolfer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXrPK7qCDWo

[vaterman]

Based on the information in this thread I think I finally got to understand Montes "Cast - no turn drill."

[Shane1]

Great thread, thanks for sharing.

[Craig foster]

No advantage . All ball control . Whoever controls the ball the best shoots the lowest scores

Regards

Craig Foster

[ej002]

A big part of the arm thing you guys are discussing relates to the pivot. If you guys are struggling to do this then check that out. This should not be some arm contortion thing.

[Shane1]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1397214100' post='9066849']A big part of the arm thing you guys are discussing relates to the pivot. If you guys are struggling to do this then check that out. This should not be some arm contortion thing.[/quote]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. The reason why this is not some 'arm contortion thing' is because it can/will/is helping people do just the opposite. U can pivot all you like, but if your arms/wrists break down or 'contort', your still taking the club off plane and u will have to re-route to get it back on track. Both the pivot and arms are important in their own right.