The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']

PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425666985' post='11091065']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425664753' post='11090763']
So all of the athletes Galea did give PEDs to... How did they find out?

[/quote]

I don't know the protocol for these things, but perhaps they asked?

I think someone in Tiger's position wouldn't be stupid enough to risk doing something dodgy after having such a great career already. The risk/reward doesn't make it worth it. But that's just speculation on my part.
[/quote]

It is completely reasonable to have that opinion.

Good luck to everyone.

[rpl1971]

Wow, rage much.... Those that dont like Tiger is for 1 simple reason he cheated on his wife. Other than cheating on his wife how has Tiger affected your opinion of him ??? did you really believe that if you bought Nike Golf products you would play better ?? Hence he lied to you ??? Did you really believe that if you bought a Buick you would enjoy the best drive of life ?? really ???? Dude keep hating, rest of us will continue to treat pro golfers as what they are , entertainers.....

[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Dont be, please list how PEDs help in golf specially to win 79 / 14 respectively ?

[bscinstnct]

Snip:

 

 

"I tell you categorically that Tiger did not receive either banned or performance-enhancing drugs when treating with Dr. Galea," said attorney Rod Personius in an email to the Daily News."

 

 

 

Dang. Never known one of them to lie.

 

Ha!

 

Well, you got me there.

 

Cheers, it's Friday, right?

 

And here's to PEDs>

[rpl1971]

[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425665694' post='11090883']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1425665384' post='11090855']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425664753' post='11090763']
So all of the athletes Galea did give PEDs to... How did they find out?

I'm just saying at some point Galea revealed his side business to them... Why not to Woods as well, during one of the 63 visits!

63!

You can think Woods took PEDs, you can think he didn't. None of that matters.

But please be reasonable enough to see why it is reasonable to be suspicious.
[/quote]

Fine to be suspicious and you have mentioned some interesting info on the topic.

But I think some people think that because TW saw Galea, he is guilty. But Galea was a pioneer in the treatment he gave TW and provided it to many athletes without PEDs.

The FBI investigated, no reason for him to lie (if he does and gets pinched on it, now you have the FBI looking to really kick your butt) and every reason to give up all his info. Wouldn't you think the FBI would make it clear that if he gave TW PEDs, he has every interest in revealing it and is screwed if he does not and it turns out he lied?

So, sure, be suspicious. But understand why the *facts* suggest that not only is Galea not evidence he took PEDs

He is actually evidence he did *not*
[/quote]

I have little faith in the statements of individuals with no credibility. Namely Galea and Woods.

He turned over a list of names, Woods was on the list. I really doubt Galea would be dumb enough to keep a file incriminating himself. They didn't catch him because of information in his office. They caught him because he was taking (or his assistants) HGH across international borders.
[/quote]

Basic is correct. It's not as simple as turning over a list. There was more to the investigation than just that, and Galea wasn't the only person/witness who was investigated from his end of things. The list of anonymous patients and what they received has been out there for years. Some people on this list were identified as HGH, some PRP, some other things. PRP therapy was recognized even then as beneficial, supported and something that Galea was a specialist in. He didn't plead to pretty much nothing, and got off with a fine with all the more serious charges dismissed after an extensive investigation because the prosecutor had real evidence that was being ignored. Study up, there is plenty of information out there. Minimizing the scope and breadth of the investigation just shows you are pushing an agenda. First it was you have some facts to share, then more, then eventually it's Tiger is a bad person and his doctor got in trouble and he got big, then it's how you claim no reasonable person shouldn't be suspicious. Your opinions have come out, and you are entitled to them, but let's not rewrite some of the history.

The witnesses to Tiger's procedure say it was PRP. Haney says blood out, blood in. You say Haney wasn't there for all the visits - big deal. He is evidence of PRP, no HGH. No evidence to the contrary.

You act like there was some advertised subculture where "everyone" knew Galea was administrating HGH and you ASSUME everybody got it. There is no basis for that assumption with any evidence.

A plausible scenario (based on where the evidence has gone) is Galea may have made Tiger aware of that as a possibility and Tiger said no way. Again, some were shown in the records as getting HGH some were not. All the reason in the world for Tiger to want PRP.

I don't judge Tiger as having no credibility, where is that coming from, or are you back to his marriage issues? Too convenient.

For you does Galea only have credibility when he says who got HGH and no credibility when he says no other patients got it? That seems extreme and unreasonable, given he provided other services and given the end result of all of the investigation. But you don't know him, I don't know him, so pretty hard to judge.

The speculation will never end, there will likely never be agreement.

BUT to suggest only unreasonable people aren't suspicious is going too far. We all have different thresholds for what we consider "proof" or "evidence".

[nbg352]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425666659' post='11091009']
[b]Fine to be suspicious and you have mentioned some interesting info on the topic. But I think some people think that because TW saw Galea, he is guilty. [/b]

What is being stated is that because Tiger chose galea the suspicion is there. Maybe the guilt, maybe not, but definetely the suspicion.


[b]But Galea was a pioneer in the treatment he gave TW and provided it to many athletes without PEDs.[/b]

By the time Tiger sought out platelate spinning nearly every ortho practice in Florida was doing it with success. The problem isn't that Dr. Galea did platelate spinning for some athletes without administering PED's to them, it is that he did administer PED's to numerous (way more than just two or three) athletes who denied it only to later get caught in part because the drug testing they were subject to is far more strict than that which Tiger was subjected.



[b]The FBI investigated, no reason for him to lie (if he does and gets pinched on it, now you have the FBI looking to really kick your butt) and every reason to give up all his info. Wouldn't you think the FBI would make it clear that if he gave TW PEDs, he has every interest in revealing it and is screwed if he does not and it turns out he lied?[/b]

The US attorney charged him with lieing, so clearly they believe him a liar. The Canadian Gov't also believed him a liar. Why they plea bargained with him only they and he know.


[b]So, sure, be suspicious. But understand why the *facts* suggest that not only is Galea not evidence he took PEDs He is actually evidence he did *not*[/b]

There is plenty of real evidence to believe both Galea and Tiger have either lied or misrepresented facts. It is also a fact that Galea dispensed PED's. It is yet another fact that out of all the doctors Tiger chose to do platelate spinning, he chose one that dispenses PED's. Thus there is circumstantial evidence to give people the impression Tiger may have taken them himself, even if that can't be proven beyond all doubt.


I can't prove Tiger bonked any more girls than the 15 or 18 that surfaced after Elin hit him with that 9 iron and kicked him out of the house in 2009, but I believe he probably did. Wouldn't shock me if the number was a lot higher than 15. Do you totally dismiss this notion out of hand simply because no one here can prove it beyond all doubt? If you are honest, you believe it too. Tiger is like Superman to some of you, so you probably have this idea he bonked 100 or more girls back in those days. To suggest that this number of chick bonking would be impossible is to suggest it is impossible he took PED's. It is the same thing.
[/quote]
And the real Mr. Smith finally comes to the table..........
How many he "bonked" is his business and Elin's. Not ours.

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

We really need a facepalm emoticon.

[rpl1971]

[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1425667917' post='11091179']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

We really need a facepalm emoticon.
[/quote]

Waiting ?????

[sefus12]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

That's great and all that PEDs could help a golfer, but the simple truth is that there's NO evidence Tiger used them. You and many others can try all you want to convince people that Tiger was on the gear, but there's still no proof no matter how loud you yell from your high-horse.

[rpl1971]

[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1425668036' post='11091203']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

That's great and all that PEDs could help a golfer, but the simple truth is that there's NO evidence Tiger used them. You and many others can try all you want to convince people that Tiger was on the gear, but there's still no proof no matter how loud you yell from your high-horse.
[/quote]

Wrong guy, not only do I belive Tiger DID NOT use PEDs, I am challenging anyone to tell me how PEDs help in golf

[ZombieDave]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

Beta blockers to calm nerves.

[rpl1971]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668218' post='11091221']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

Beta blockers to calm nerves.
[/quote]


Ok ill bite, how does calm nerves assure the strike on the ball from the putter is good ???

BTW any blood pressure medication can do the same and those are not illegal..

[nbg352]

[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1425666961' post='11091055']
Don't you need to get back to your Tiger shrine? If you want answers to how PED's work, then get off your soapbox and READ!

How in the world do you come up with the "butthurt" accusation? Have you not even read any of his posts? I guess next time you will accuse him of being racist. That's how it works when you do not have any logical arguments to make, just irrational, emotional accusations.

Now, run along. Make sure you polish those Tiger posters on your wall. Make sure you get all of the spots off.
[/quote]
So, let's sneeringly belittle the man for his lack of evidence. You have none either. Should we now belittle you?

[nbg352]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668218' post='11091221']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

Beta blockers to calm nerves.
[/quote]
They slow the heart rate. Trust me when I tell you they do not calm nerves.......

[ZombieDave]

Not sure. Greg Norman seemed to think people on them handled stress better, and therefore performed better.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/norman-says-lots-guys-were-using-beta-blockers/

Edit to add

Mac OGrady had strong opinions on them back in 1994 too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf-ogrady-says-players-use-betablockers-drugs-helped-win-majors-1368307.html

[nbg352]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425668324' post='11091229']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668218' post='11091221']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

Beta blockers to calm nerves.
[/quote]


Ok ill bite, how does calm nerves assure the strike on the ball from the putter is good ???

BTW any blood pressure medication can do the same and those are not illegal..
[/quote]
Apparently beta blockers are not legal unless you require them to fight hypertension.

[rpl1971]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668529' post='11091255']
Not sure. Greg Norman seemed to think people on them handled stress better, and therefore performed better.

[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/norman-says-lots-guys-were-using-beta-blockers/"]http://www.golfchann...-beta-blockers/[/url]
[/quote]

Again "nerves" are not a muscle. The Muscle that is affected is the heart. Micardis can do the same thing and are not illegal

[nbg352]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668529' post='11091255']
Not sure. Greg Norman seemed to think people on them handled stress better, and therefore performed better.

[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/norman-says-lots-guys-were-using-beta-blockers/"]http://www.golfchann...-beta-blockers/[/url]
[/quote]
He didn't include me in his study.
BB's slow my heart. I am not calmed by them.

[ZombieDave]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425668655' post='11091271']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668529' post='11091255']
Not sure. Greg Norman seemed to think people on them handled stress better, and therefore performed better.

[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/norman-says-lots-guys-were-using-beta-blockers/"]http://www.golfchann...-beta-blockers/[/url]
[/quote]

Again "nerves" are not a muscle. The Muscle that is affected is the heart. Micardis can do the same thing and are not illegal
[/quote]

Who said it was a muscle?! You asked about performance enhancing drugs, so I named one.

[rpl1971]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668752' post='11091283']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425668655' post='11091271']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668529' post='11091255']
Not sure. Greg Norman seemed to think people on them handled stress better, and therefore performed better.

[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/norman-says-lots-guys-were-using-beta-blockers/"]http://www.golfchann...-beta-blockers/[/url]
[/quote]

Again "nerves" are not a muscle. The Muscle that is affected is the heart. Micardis can do the same thing and are not illegal
[/quote]

Who said it was a muscle?! You asked about performance enhancing drugs, so I named one.
[/quote]

Which muscle's performance is it enhancing ???? the heart ?? the core muscles ??
Name one person for has won ANYTHING in golf using BB ???

[ZombieDave]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425668971' post='11091309']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668752' post='11091283']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425668655' post='11091271']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425668529' post='11091255']
Not sure. Greg Norman seemed to think people on them handled stress better, and therefore performed better.

[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/norman-says-lots-guys-were-using-beta-blockers/"]http://www.golfchann...-beta-blockers/[/url]
[/quote]

Again "nerves" are not a muscle. The Muscle that is affected is the heart. Micardis can do the same thing and are not illegal
[/quote]

Who said it was a muscle?! You asked about performance enhancing drugs, so I named one.
[/quote]

Which muscle's performance is it enhancing ???? the heart ?? the core muscles ??
Name one person for has won ANYTHING in golf using BB ???
[/quote]

Why the fixation with muscles?

I assume they're banned for their perceived calming effect on the brain, and can definitely see how this would be beneficial in tournament golf.

I can't name someone who won using them, but the two links I provided above would suggest that beta blocker use was common in the 80s and 90s at least.

[dereckbc]

Tiger is not relevant anymore, so who really cares what is said about him?

I feel sorry for the guy, he had no childhood or responsibilities. He never had a choice but to play golf and his Father ran all his affairs. When his Father, died he rebelled very late in life, did not know how to run his affairs and it cost him dearly. Professionally his first and biggest mistake was leaving Butch Harmon. He has been going down hill ever since those two events.

[Smith65]

[b]How does Tiger's decision to consult a respected doctor with no convictions reflect badly on him?[/b] [b]what vetting process should he have used, in your opinion?[/b]

[b]Are you also saying that people who did business with Madhoff before it became apparent he was a criminal should have instinctively known he was a criminal?[/b]



In an article written by Don Van Natta that appeared in the NY Times it is stated that Tiger was referred to Galea by his own agents. The agents, it is implied, knew of Galea's treatment of other athletes.

[i][color=#000000][size=4]Dr. Galea said Mr. Woods was referred to him by the golfer’s agents at Cleveland-based International Management Group, who were alarmed at the slow pace of Mr. Woods’s rehabilitation after knee surgery in June 2008. The doctor said he flew to Orlando, Fla., at least four times to give Mr. Woods the platelet therapy at his home in Windermere, Fla., in February and March of this year. When asked for comment about Mr. Woods’s involvement with Dr. Galea, Mark Steinberg, of I.M.G., responded in an e-mail message: “I would really ask that you guys don’t write this? If Tiger is NOT implicated, and won’t be, let’s please give the kid a break.”[/size][/color][/i]
[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/sports/15doctor.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0"]http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0[/url]


[color=#000000][size=4]Who are some of those other athletes? [/size][/color][color=#000000][size=4]You should carefully read this article to see the kind of crap that the investigators had to deal with during their investigation of Galea. The athletes are referred to by letters of the alphabet. This is a poor attempt at secresy, but this is how Galea did it. It is how shady people operate. [/size][/color]

[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 6:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Athlete B -- New York (HGH)[/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 8:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Athlete F -- Tampa[/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 9:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Athlete G - San Francisco[/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 10:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Athlete H -- San Diego (HGH), Athlete I -- New York[/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 11:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Athlete J -- Boston (vitamin drip)[/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 12:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Athlete A -- Washington (vitamin drip/HGH)[/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 13:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Athlete K, L, M -- Cleveland (HGH/knees)[/size][/color]
[color=#333333][size=2]• [/size][/color][b]Aug. 18-24:[/b][color=#333333][size=2] Galea away from his office, but contacted by Athletes N, A, P, [/size][/color]

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5198475"]http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=5198475[/url]


Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, A Rod ...etc, plenty of whom were shrouded in the PED rumor mill and/or had already tested positive for steroids before Woods chose Galea. Need proof? Galea is associated with Marion Jones. Jones first tested positive for steroids in August of 2006. Galea is associated with Tim Montgomery, but Tim was banned from Track and Field in 2005. Galea is associated with A Rod, who perhaps played a very significant role in how Tiger ended up with Galea. But even A Rod had been implicated before Team Tiger chose Galea. Jose Canseco targeted A Rod in his April 2008 release of his book on steroid use and baseball, several months before Tiger first saw Galea.

Team Tiger had every opportunity in the world to make the connection between galea and PED's, but they are either totally stupid or they looked the other way and hoped it would never surface.

So how would I have done due diligence in selecting a platelet spinning doctor for old Tiger? Well, one of the things I would have avoided was selecting a Dr. who had a connection to athletes known to be associated with PED's. That would have eliminated Galea. But what was the due diligence of Team Tiger? According to Van Natta and others who have written on the subject, Tiger sought out advice because of his slow recovery from surgery and Galea was selected BECAUSE of his association with these other athletes who had seen improvement gains after seeing Galea. We can see how and why these others had improved, since all have tested positive. And we could have seen prior to the time when Team Tiger selected Galea.

Hello?

As for Madhoff, the average investor has no clue what they are doing, so no, I would not expect them to have known what old Bernie was up to. Team Tiger was worth about a billion dollars, so they had the resources to know better.

[rpl1971]

Brain is not a muscle. Reason of my questions, is that PEDs are specifically designed to affect the performance of the muscles. Make them faster, larger, repair, more fibrous, less fibrous etc.... In Golf being a coordination sport, PEDs dont work because coordination is a skill that is not the domain of the muscles. It is the domain of the brain. You say BB calm the brain, first it does not calm the brain because there is nothing to calm. BB slow the heart rate and ie reduce the amount of adrenalin in the blood stream. BB does not help in putting. If it did there would be more winners in the pga and unlimited amounts of winners in the champions tour..

[ZombieDave]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425669939' post='11091421']
Brain is not a muscle. Reason of my questions, is that PEDs are specifically designed to affect the performance of the muscles. Make them faster, larger, repair, more fibrous, less fibrous etc.... In Golf being a coordination sport, PEDs dont work because coordination is a skill that is not the domain of the muscles. It is the domain of the brain. You say BB calm the brain, first it does not calm the brain because there is nothing to calm. BB slow the heart rate and ie reduce the amount of adrenalin in the blood stream. BB does not help in putting. If it did there would be more winners in the pga and unlimited amounts of winners in the champions tour..
[/quote]

"PEDs are specifically designed to affect the performance of the muscles" - Based on what definition? Your definition of performance enhancing and performance enhancing drugs obviously differs from the WADA and the PGA/R&A definitions.

Your opinions on beta blockers are noted, but I give more weight to the opinions of the experts who saw reason to ban them, and the tour pros who are on the record saying they were used.

[bmaas03]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425667697' post='11091153']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425667131' post='11091089']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425666282' post='11090947']
PEDs do NOT help in golf.
[/quote]

I'm thoroughly embarrassed for you.
[/quote]
Here Ill make it easy for you:

Grip - PEDs help in what way to ensure the Grip position and pressure remain optimal for club face delivery
Backswing - PEDs help in what way to ensure the clubface remains square to the path and plane
Transition - PEDs help in what way to ensure the transition to the downswing remains on plane and position relative to swing path and clubface postion
Impact - PEDs help in what way to ensure the club face approaches from the optimal path direction and optimal plus/delta position relative to the ball

Putting - PEDs help in what way to ensure head path and impact ball rotation are square to setup.

Have at it please
[/quote]

I'm firmly on the side of looking at the current available evidence (not circumstantial assumptions) and do not believe TW used PEDs, but your argument isn't holding much water here.
First though, I'm not sure you're clear in what you're asking...Are you asking for the specific physio-chemical process by which the compounds in PEDs affect the various aspects of the human body and thus the golf swing, or are you looking for a 30,000' explanation?
To my initial point, if we ask each of the same categorical questions for say, the baseball swing, and then look at all the ball players that have been busted for PEDs, you might already have your answer. The baseball swing certainly isn't all about power, and it hasn't been only power hitters and pitchers that have been caught.
PEDs aren't simply used for muscle growth. They're used for a number of factors - even psychological.

[sailfishchris]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425669939' post='11091421']
Brain is not a muscle. Reason of my questions, is that PEDs are specifically designed to affect the performance of the muscles. Make them faster, larger, repair, more fibrous, less fibrous etc.... In Golf being a coordination sport, PEDs dont work because coordination is a skill that is not the domain of the
muscles. It is the domain of the brain. You say BB calm the brain, first it does not calm the brain because there is nothing to calm. BB slow the heart rate and ie reduce the amount of adrenalin in the blood stream. BB does not help in putting. If it did there would be more winners in the pga and unlimited amounts of winners in the champions tour..
[/quote] BB's are used to counter act adrenaline.....Keep you calm. Like when you're standing over a big money putt. Same reason guys smoked pot. Sniper's are "rumored" to take them to keep a calm hand

[Smith65]

PED's can help golfers because they can aid in faster recovery times and increased endurance and focus. This has been stated so many times in this thread, but since a few continue to repeat the myth that PED's can't help with golf it bears continual repeating. From Golf Digest:

[color=#333333]"The best players aren't going to be testing positive for steroids," says Randy Myers, who trains more than a dozen tour players. "Small doses of impact drugs -- HGH, things like that -- that's what the modern athlete is doing. It's barely testable, and it doesn't bulk you up. It builds explosive muscle, which is what all golfers want."[/color]

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425668133' post='11091215']
Wrong guy, not only do I believe Tiger DID NOT use PEDs, I am challenging anyone to tell me how PEDs help in golf
[/quote]

This is my last post in this thread and at no point will I even address Tiger Woods in my explanation.

rpl1971... please first understand your actual question. You are asking how substances with known athletic performances benefits, i.e. that improve your ability as an athlete, help you compete in an athletic sport. On the broad spectrum of athletic sports, golf is on the low end for raw strength needs, but that doesn't mean by any possible interpretation that being stronger alone would not improve your ability to perform within the sport.

I will humor you, you may want to pull up google in advance, and feel free to check everything I said.

PED types:

Anabolic agents (androgenic steroids) add muscle mass, improve muscular strength, or both, depending on what agent is used. Commonly known anabolic agents are DECA, Dianabol, Nandrolone, Winstrol, and Testosterone, just to name a few. These agents are either derivatives of many sex hormones (typically male) or synthetically derived agonists or antagonists (activators or deactivators) of androgenic cell signaling pathways. Most anabolic agents are steroids. By definition a steroid is a polycyclic carbon ring structure with hydroxyl groups attached to it (-OH). The size and structure of these molecules, along with their common hydrophobic nature, cause them to be stored in fat, creating a significantly larger detection window for their metabolites. A common steroid that is not an anabolic agent is cholesterol, which provides structural integrity for cellular membranes.

Peptide Hormones are chains amino acids which act as intercellular (generally) messengers to illicit a secondary action on a target generally found distal from the production site. The vast majority of peptide hormones are produced in the anterior pituitary, stimulated by the hypothalamus, and are involved in the regulation of various biochemical pathways, including but not limited to, metabolism, inflammatory response, reproduction, and tissue repair. Commonly known peptide hormones include HGH (Human growth hormone), FSH (follicle stimulating hormone, induces ovulation in females), and the GHRP family (Growth hormone releasing peptide). Due to the generally high water solubility of these hormones, and the fact that their synthetic derivatives are virtually identical in structure, the body will eliminate traces of these readily, and in addition, it is often impossible to determine the difference between the synthetic peptide hormone's metabolites and the metabolites of endogenous (produced by the body) peptides.

Stimulants are a class of molecules which are known to illicit heightened nervous system activity, eventually resulting in heightened alertness, focus, and energy. The nervous system regulatory output of stimulants causes the body to perceive less pain, less fatigue, and elevated physical output. The vast majority of these stimulants are "amide pressors", meaning they possess one or more regions of Nitrogen to Hydrogen bonds with extremely high levels of reactivity. In fact, a large class of neurotransmitters, which convey electrochemical signals across synapses in the nervous system, involve similar amide regions and similar causative effects. Commonly known amide pressor stimulants are amphetamines (Adderall etc.), Vasopressin (regulatory signaler of blood pressure), and nicotine (yup... in fact the receptors found at the skeletal neuromuscular juncture is a "nicotinic acetylcholine ion channel", but that’s for an entirely different lecture). The most commonly known stimulant is caffeine, which regulates the presence of adenosine in the reticular formation of the brain stem. The reticular formation is highly responsible in regulation of blood pressure, respiration, and general activity/alertness. In fact, it is the spinoreticular tract which coordinates most sympathetic responses (fight or flight response, response to trauma, etc.) to regulate pain and improve physical output in various times of survival needs.

Beta-Blockers actually are a part of the opposite side of the equation. These molecules are inhibitors of the sympathetic response typical of highly stressful situations. They will combat elevated levels of anxiety and blood pressure, but are specifically designed to have little to no effect on overall alertness.

Understand that the body works in a manner that every system is highly regulated and interconnected. The body does not do anything the brain does not perceive, and the brain rarely does anything that does not result in the output of some manner of physical behavior. Hormones are regulated by cell signaling and production is often signaled by environmental needs, deduced in the brain, as a result of internal and external stimuli.

OK... so how does this help in golf.

Anabolic agents will increase both strength and muscular endurance. They have some effects to lower body fat as well. They also cause large neurological responses which can change behavior and cognitive mind set. They have been noted to increase aggression, competitive drive, and self-confidence. The combined effects can improve coordination of neurological motion pattern generators and muscular output, though it would be of less importance in an athlete with high levels of existing motor competence. At a molecular level, these molecules signal muscle fiber growth and recruitment, both of which will lead to improved physical output. I do not feel I need to go out on a limb to say that the net effect of these would be beneficial to someone competing in a sport where strength and endurance increases are beneficial, and where the mental effects of steroids would be beneficial as well. If nothing else at all, the increased strength would allow one to exert a lower percentage of their max physical output to get equal clubhead speed, allowing the golfer to hit the ball as far with lower physical exertion, resulting in more control.

Peptide hormones have a very large regulatory effect. They signal output of various anabolic agents and hormones, as well as having many metabolic regulatory effects. In fact, insulin is a peptide hormone that governs the storage of high levels of circulating blood glucose levels. PED specific hormones, such as HGH, often deal with tissue regeneration. HGH signals the physical growth of organs, and to a lesser extent, muscles, as well, but its primary utility as a PED is its ability to regulate inflammatory response and increase the speed of tissue regeneration. Endogenous (made in the body) HGH levels experience a significant decline in men beginning at roughly the age of 25 and increasing in significance into the late 30s and early 40s. HGH is currently under clinical trial for anti-aging, and many respected physicians feel that the decline of HGH release is one of the main culprits of physical and mental decline. I once again would feel incredibly safe to say that the use of many PED peptide hormone agents would improve and individual’s ability to perform in golf. HGH can be used to recover faster from training, which then allows more training to be done and larger strength gains to be seen. HGH regulates body fat storages, and PED use of HGH results in a marked decrease in body fat, which could be argued to allow for more flexibility and general athleticism, again benefitting the golfer. Many peptide hormones can also be used as PEDs to signal the release of endogenous androgens, thereby improving performance and lowering drug test detectability.

Stimulants will improve focus, cause levels of euphoria, improve cardiovascular output, improve alertness, and help the golfer avoid fatigue. The benefits of these to a golfer are clearly significant. Athletic performance is negatively impacted by depressed mood and fatigue. If for no other reason, improving the body's capacity to stay on task, and to output physical exertion, would lead to a marked level of improvement by a golfer, especially if he/she was feeling less than their normal self.

Beta-Blockers decrease sympathetic responses from adrenaline and other hormones, thereby essentially calming nerves. Multiple studies have been done, even with athletes, showing the existence of performance anxiety, regardless of an individual’s level of competition. Nervous response, often seen due to heightened circulating adrenaline, can cause a decrease in fine motor skills. As golf, and especially putting, requires precise control, a drug which will improve your ability to control your mind and body when under pressure would obviously been viewable as beneficial for those who need it.

PEDs do not make good athletes, but they absolutely do make good athletes better, in any athletic sport requiring times of significant physical or mental exertion. Golf fits both of those criteria.

PEDs can also cause various biochemical regulatory issues, destruction of various tissues, including connective tissues such as collagen or elastin, and improper use or repeated abuse can be linked to numerous physical and mental disorders.