The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end

[Playaway]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1425836492' post='11102441']
"President Tiger Woods? It's a thousand-to-one shot"

[url="http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2015/03/president-tiger-woods-its-a-th.html"]http://www.golfdiges...s-its-a-th.html[/url]
[/quote]

Eldrick 45?

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425829626' post='11101855']
[color=#2B3943][size=4]Tiger Woods emphatically denies that he has ever used performance-enhancing drugs, but almost a quarter of PGA Tour players [/size][/color][url="http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1985630,00.html"]surveyed by Sports Illustrated[/url][color=#2B3943][size=4] don't believe him. Of 71 PGA Tour players surveyed, 24 percent said they thought Woods "used HGH or other performance-enhancing drugs." [/size][/color]

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/almost-quarter-pga-tour-pros-surveyed-sports-illustrated-think-woods-took-peds
[/quote]

Dredging up a five year old popularity poll means nothing.

Then again 76% felt the other way, so case closed?

This is getting silly. But most Tiger threads are.

Let's have just one. ;-)

[Shilgy]

[quote name='Hawkeye77' timestamp='1425843683' post='11103041']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425829626' post='11101855']
[color=#2B3943][size=4]Tiger Woods emphatically denies that he has ever used performance-enhancing drugs, but almost a quarter of PGA Tour players [/size][/color][url="http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1985630,00.html"]surveyed by Sports Illustrated[/url][color=#2B3943][size=4] don't believe him. Of 71 PGA Tour players surveyed, 24 percent said they thought Woods "used HGH or other performance-enhancing drugs." [/size][/color]

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/almost-quarter-pga-tour-pros-surveyed-sports-illustrated-think-woods-took-peds
[/quote]

Dredging up a five year old popularity poll means nothing.

Then again 76% felt the other way, so case closed?

This is getting silly. But most Tiger threads are.

Let's have just one. ;-)
[/quote]5 year old poll, Galea story just breaking so no denial by the doc as yet. Yep, well that convinces me. You guys are grasping at straws.

[nbg352]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1425750928' post='11097163']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425481289' post='11075219']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1425477624' post='11074839']
[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1425476008' post='11074713']
Wow, there are some really well thought-out opinions and well-expressed points made in this thread, and it's remained mostly civil! The salient points on both sides of the argument have already been presented, so I won't beat that to death any further.

It was suggested though, that Earl's passing was the beginning of Tiger's slide. I think this may have been true in terms of some of his indiscretions and poor decision making, but then again, Earl was known to have made similar indiscretions as far as the infidelity part.

I think Tiger's real unraveling was/is related to Earl, but not just his passing. I think it truly began after the fire hydrant deal. The entire image and mystique, carefully cultivated and nurtured by Earl, and then further massaged, enhanced, and groomed by Steinberg, came crashing down the day he hit that hydrant and all of the other dirt came out.

The destruction of his image, and the idea that he let his parents down....especially his dad, had to be devastating to him. All of those lofty and seemingly unrealistic expectations, many publicly declared. Of course, in my view Earl placed unrealistic pressure on Tiger to live up to his proclamations. Remember the whole, "my son is going to do more for humanity than Gandhi, etc.,.."?

When the dirt came out and the image came crashing down, Tiger failed his dad, and disgraced his mom, lost his family, and destroyed his public persona. When you've got all the money in the world, what else is left.

Failing his parents and seeing his public image decimated had to be devastating to Tiger's psyche. Everything changed in an instant. The trauma from this type of event can be as real and significant as a major physical trauma. It wouldnt surprise me if Tiger has suffered since then with what Psychologists would diagnose as "Adjustment Disorder."
[/quote]

Interesting. I've always thought the fire hydrant's real consequence to him was that now that things were out in the open, the sportswriters who protected him couldn't do so anywhere near to the degree they did before, and maintain their appearance of objectiveness. It's such a mental game that I think knowing your press conferences are going to be only about your birdies and bogeys, "how did you feel on the range", etc., was a great comfort to him. Then that was gone. While the media is still mostly sycophantic when he is involved, I think things like Jenkins' column *never* would have happened pre-fire hydrant. Some editor or someone would have nixed it.
[/quote]


I agree. I think one of Tiger's main edges prior to all the scandals was his psychological well being and the aura of invincibility he maintained. Like Samson losing his hair, once Tiger's true persona became known, he himself had a new self image that was nowhere near as powerful as the one that was stripped away. In short, he can't summon up the prior greatness on demand any longer. It just isn't there for him.
[/quote]BINGO!!!

Smitty's second sentence sums it up for me.

This is what I tried to get at in my prior posts regarding Tiger, and sometimes I communicated it better than others, lol.

Regardless of how well one can focus, insulate and compartmentalize themself, everyone is ultimately a product of the Man/Woman staring back at them in the mirror, even Tiger, and he obviously felt the humiliation to his very core, which is not a knock against him, because I can't even fathom being split wide open publicly like he was, and I would say that his ability to compartmentalize is as great as any public figure going, with the possible exception of Bill Clinton, however the critical difference between the two is that Bill Clinton's persona was not built on and around intimidation. Having been around those types of personalities most of my life through sports and business, I have never seen someone come out of a similar situation with their "armor," persona and abilities to perform at the pre-episode levels in tact.

Another thing that I've mentioned though I don't think in this thread is that I'd love to see, because no way in hell Tiger answers this question straight up, and that is that at the end of the day, I believe that he truly only cares about one individual's thoughts & opinions of him, and that's Earl's.

Yes, his Mother means the world to him and he Adores her, however he most definitely, in every way, is his Father's Son. That being said, I can't forget his Father's last toast in the press tent following Tiger's last US Am Victory, when he raised his glass, and in the presence of others, toasted to his son winning FOURTEEN MAJORS!!!!

From those who were present, it was much to Tiger's chagrin, lol.

However, at the end of the day, and if Tiger indeed never wins another Major, he can look at himself in the mirror and look skyward and say that he met his Father's expectations!!

In this whole f***** up mess that is his life, that's gotta be comforting to him-

Sure, he was set to take a run at Jack, and I hope, for the game and my entertainment, that he can regroup and come back to at least grab another one, however, if he does not.......

His Father put a number up and Tiger met it....

Well, Smitty, Blue & DP, great posts!!

Very Well Played Gents!!

Have a great weekend

Fairways & Greens My Friends,
Richard
[/quote]
God,i love your posts, buddy!
You see deep!

[3jacker]

So... if I read that right, he stinks now because he's losing his hair?
That explains a lot about my game.

[rony]

[quote name='Hawkeye77' timestamp='1425843683' post='11103041']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425829626' post='11101855']
[color=#2B3943]Tiger Woods emphatically denies that he has ever used performance-enhancing drugs, but almost a quarter of PGA Tour players [/color][url="http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1985630,00.html"]surveyed by Sports Illustrated[/url][color=#2B3943] don't believe him. Of 71 PGA Tour players surveyed, 24 percent said they thought Woods "used HGH or other performance-enhancing drugs." [/color]

[url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/almost-quarter-pga-tour-pros-surveyed-sports-illustrated-think-woods-took-peds"]http://www.golf.com/...woods-took-peds[/url]
[/quote]

Dredging up a five year old popularity poll means nothing.

Then again 76% felt the other way, so case closed?

This is getting silly. But most Tiger threads are.

Let's have just one. ;-)
[/quote]


I agree. One Tiger Thread since he is the most relevant topic in golf, it would make posting much easier. Moderators could just chop posts from the front when traffic thins out.

That being said, No Tweets from Tiger in a month, no reports of him working on his game, nasty rumors popping up from unknown sources, Masters right around the corner, Padraig wins again so forget the age excuse,.................The Plot Thickens!

[farmer]

The Donald said yesterday that he and Tiger are good friends and that Tiger will be fine. So Tiger has no need for PEDs, he just needs the hair guy.

[aussie ausborne]

Tiger is The Needle and the Damage Done.

[BillyZ2]

I don't understand why there is so much talk about Tiger? Nearly 1000 posts debating the use of PED's that may have taken place years ago. I guess we have the right to talk about him, but it's never ending.

[aussie ausborne]

[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1425915530' post='11108075']
I don't understand why there is so much talk about Tiger? Nearly 1000 posts debating the use of PED's that may have taken place years ago. I guess we have the right to talk about him, but it's never ending.
[/quote]

Tiger is the needle. Which kind of needle? Who knows.

[Frankensteins Monster]

[quote name='Joebirds55' timestamp='1425760572' post='11098001']
GROUP A: The circumstantial evidence shows he definitely used PEDs

GROUP B: Until we see solid proof, we shouldn't speculate. Tiger is the messiah!

Continue for infinity more pages...
[/quote]
Your first group has a even keel sentence. Your second one is an antagonistic sentence. Why is that?

[Frankensteins Monster]

[quote name='rony' timestamp='1425913208' post='11107819']
[quote name='Hawkeye77' timestamp='1425843683' post='11103041']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425829626' post='11101855']
[color=#2B3943]Tiger Woods emphatically denies that he has ever used performance-enhancing drugs, but almost a quarter of PGA Tour players [/color][url="http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1985630,00.html"]surveyed by Sports Illustrated[/url][color=#2B3943] don't believe him. Of 71 PGA Tour players surveyed, 24 percent said they thought Woods "used HGH or other performance-enhancing drugs." [/color]

[url="http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/almost-quarter-pga-tour-pros-surveyed-sports-illustrated-think-woods-took-peds"]http://www.golf.com/...woods-took-peds[/url]
[/quote]

Dredging up a five year old popularity poll means nothing.

Then again 76% felt the other way, so case closed?

This is getting silly. But most Tiger threads are.

Let's have just one. ;-)
[/quote]


I agree. One Tiger Thread since he is the most relevant topic in golf, it would make posting much easier. Moderators could just chop posts from the front when traffic thins out.

That being said, No Tweets from Tiger in a month, no reports of him working on his game, nasty rumors popping up from unknown sources, Masters right around the corner, Padraig wins again so forget the age excuse,.................The Plot Thickens!
[/quote]
I'm not sure there's any other better way to display a nonsensical straw man example.

[Playaway]

[b] The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to [s]be swept under the rug[/s] end.[/b]

[b]- Tim Finchem[/b]

[TorreyPines]

Received my copy of the ‘The Second Life of Tiger Woods’ yesterday, the newest TW book.

Jumped straight to the PEDs section as that was what intrigued me most, and I have to say, it’s pretty damning for Tiger, imo.

I won’t say any more for now to avoid spoiling specific details for those planning to read it, but will say that the 30 pages spent on the subject are fascinating, and clearly much more comprehensively researched than in Benedict and Keteyian’s book.

[the bishop]

It feels weird to say this about a 6 year old thread, but IBTL.

[Hawkeye77]

Hmmmm, last time you grabbed a Tiger Woods book first thing you did was run to the forum and say you had to jump straight to the PED section. Of course, before that you spent a bit of time previously insulting some well meaning and intelligent posters and engaging in name calling simply because they respectfully disagreed with you on something else. So, not really sure what's up here at this point except dredging up an ages old thread about PEDs rather than mentioning the new book.

Comprehensively researched? You reveal your bias (but you love Tiger, lol).

Bamberger starts off with the the usual ad hoc Tiger was big after he was skinny and boy that Tiger Woods really loved sex (s-e-x) - embarrassing for someone like Bamberger (who has ground his axe on Tiger before). That's 5 1/2 pages of drivel, no exaggeration. Then, the comprehensively researched? Um ...... no. He interviewed the scum Bosch who went to prison and the next 24 pages is all about anything Bamberger gleaned from spending parts of three days with the guy - nothing verified, one alleged secret meeting, etc. And all in the context of Bosch going on and on and 90% of it is all about Bosch and A Rod.

If your take was this was some damning and comprehensively researched bit, you are easily impressed. Other than the interview and Bamberger weaving his threads that he admits in throwaway lines he absolutely has no proof for save the word of the convicted felon - even what tiny bits there are about Tiger are more than a little tenuous, there is nothing that was "comprehensively researched" - everything was already known in the the public domain for years, he just spends about 25% of his book relishing these interviews with the criminal. LOL, look a me, a convicted felon who loves to talk to anyone, and nobody else really cares about talking to anymore for obvious reasons, spent some time with ME. YMMV.

Read the other stuff about Tiger and the rules controversies and you know where Bamberger is coming from (no secret there). The 2013 Masters incident was glossed over, no discussion of the actual rules involved, and all designed to jump into the others and take some shots.

Nothing new at all other than Mr. Bosch - LOL.

I'm chuckling because it was intended for release to get some play before The Masters and that marketing ploy has failed miserably.

If you don't like Tiger and like to jump to conclusions to support whatever your point of view already is, you'll love this book, lol.

If you like Tiger and are hoping to see some real, comprehensive research about the issue presented in a way that lays out some verifiable facts - you aren't going to find them.

If you think Bamberger still has something against Tiger and is still mad about certain incidents he just can't get over - this only stands to support it. I've got a couple of his books and they were really good. But I lose interest when authors decide to push their point of view over the facts, and resort to nothing but innuendo because they know with someone like Tiger, that sells.

 

 

[Man_O_War]

can any one explain how peds help in golf? help you win? i would think people with the build of glasson would have won everything.

beta blockers..self calming drugs....yeah... but tell me how a long drive muscle guy would have any benefit in golf..other than off the tee.. some in the establishment can't believe how good this kid was...he had to have used something. heck cocaine would be a much better drug if you asked me.

in the old days..they drank and smoked to stay calm/.remove fear...were those performance enhancing?

 

 

Circa 2000...ala Tiger 2000

 

Glasson

 

i would hope after 10 years of lifting that he has built some muscles in 2006...and grown up some.. you've seen his father's build, it is a matter of time before he starts filling in too..

it's an emotional argument about roid use...just doesn't meet the smell test.

[DON SVO]

I've gotten into a few deeper replies about this before, so I'll keep it short.

Many people think PEDs = huge bodybuilding muscular types. A professional golfer would be way more interested in PEDs ala professional cycling (think Lance Armstrong). You don't want muscle, most pro golfers already have prodigious length (see Tiger pre-PGA Tour/being pro). WHat they want is a way to practice for hours on end, walk 18 holes a day day-after-day, and then have much shorter recovery time after the gym workouts. I would suspect that the PED failures in golf would be things like HGH, subtle amounts of basic test, EPO, maybe beta-blockers.

You're not trying to get big, you're trying to get better than and outlast the other guys sticking a peg into the ground every Thursday.

[Man_O_War]

if this is the case then people don't know pro golfers lives. I do.

 

Most pro golfers practice golf one way or another all day every day. They fine tune their swings and can literally swing at a less than tournament tempo all day with little fatigue. They aren't amateurs taking divots the size of alabama. The edge isn't practicing at the range for days on end simply to outlast every one lol..They are looking for mental edge more so than fine tuning swing edge. this is why many experimented with beta blockers and others in the 80s and 90s..worked for some, not others.

 

 

[DON SVO]

Oh, right. My bad.

[Man_O_War]

sarcasm or not :)....

I will tell you that i was around a lot of the euro players in the 80s/early 90s. Woosnam, Langer, Lyle etc.. they would hit balls every day, all day drills and their only complaints...their snuff boxes hurt a tad. Never, I am tired, my feet hurt, my body is sore and needs Jack D to recover. VJ for example would literally hit balls all day, every day..no social life whatsoever. He was a skinny tall young man in those days... anyway..just my 2 cents.. No one really knows except Tiger..if he says he did not...you can choose to believe him or not..It's a free country...hopefully. He was just a pure athlete at golf..simple. it's ironic that most of the dominant golfers are great athletes and would probably do well at other sports with no issues:

Nicklaus ,Palmer, Jones, Hogan, Faldo - swimming/cycling, Norman - any sports, Woosnam - boxing, Langer, Woods - Sprinting

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

Werent the people, Galea etc, all investigated by the Feds and then cut a deal based on cooperation and naming the people who got PEDs?

 

Here..,

 

“Most of the U.S. charges were dismissed as part of Galea's plea, and he agreed to cooperate with investigators and disclose the identities of his patients and their treatments.”

 

They had every incentive to “flip” on TW, and seriously severe jail if they lied, yet...

 

“The lawyer for the former assistant to the Canadian doctor who treated Tiger Woods said the golfer never received performance-enhancing drugs as a patient.

"The suggestion and rumor was unfair," Rod Personius, an attorney for Mary Anne Catalano, Dr. Anthony Galea's former assistant told ESPN.com's Mike Fish. "Galea's attorneys have said all along that there was no involvement (with PEDs), but no one paid attention. The government really isn't in position to comment. Maybe coming from a neutral party it'll mean something."“

 

Lawyer in Galea case: Tiger didn't receive PEDs

 

 

[ckay]

PED or not, TW is the man!

[QuigleyDU]

In before it gets locked. Surprised this thread has lasted this long. I will say though, that I am on the fence. I cannot say that he did for sure, but there I would not be surprised.

 

I also would have really zero issue with it if he did as I was very much entertained.

[Man_O_War]

what s this M4 440 driver i see on your signature. Never heard of it. Tour only?

[ckay]

Does it say M4 440? It’s an M3 440, sausage fingers I guess lol.

[bscinstnct]

 

Btw, were these facts pointed out in the “book” you read?