The Tiger Woods PED/Steroids Speculation has to end

[nochct1]

How quickly would a thread get shut down if we just started threads saying "I know xxxxx golfers took PEDs", with absolutely no proof whatsoever? This is Tiger, so it stays open. But if it was any other golfer these topics would have been shut down a long time ago.

[Smith65]

[b]Proof of the 63 visits ??? PED's do not improve talent.. If so as ive stated three times now, we would have more winners.. your opinion is yours, I am just saying maybe wait until some proof is shown before committing 100% to the guilt of someone who really does not even have the slightest reason to use PEDs[/b]



The 63 visits is widely reported, so if you have not read it then you have not followed the story closely enough. Your claim that PED's do not improve talent isn't on point, they do improve areas of athletic competition like endurance, stamina, recovery and focus that are required by golfers. PED's improve endurance and recovery = fact. Not opinion, fact.

No one is claiming it has been proven beyond doubt that Tiger took PED's. No, what they are saying is that there is plenty that is known for people to believe he might have taken them, and for people to believe his story doesn't add up. If you can't accept these things then there isn't much anyone can do about that. I can accept that you feel the way you do. No problem. It's a big world with a lot of points of view, so there is room for both perspectives. Like I said, if Tiger didn't want people to think he might have used HGH, he shouldn't have hired Dr. Galea. He brought much of this on himself. His self inflicted wounds are a trend with him.

[Mr. Herbert]

[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1425651191' post='11089289']
How quickly would a thread get shut down if we just started threads saying "I know xxxxx golfers took PEDs", with absolutely no proof whatsoever? This is Tiger, so it stays open. But if it was any other golfer these topics would have been shut down a long time ago.
[/quote]

Maybe my reading comprehension is bad, but I'm pretty sure just about everyone you're arguing with has stated that there is no direct proof, but that there is enough circumstantial evidence to allow some speculation.

[Smith65]

[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1425651191' post='11089289']
How quickly would a thread get shut down if we just started threads saying "I know xxxxx golfers took PEDs", with absolutely no proof whatsoever? This is Tiger, so it stays open. But if it was any other golfer these topics would have been shut down a long time ago.
[/quote]

I doubt the thread would remain open without the connection to convicted HGH dispenser Dr. Galea. It isn't open because it is Tiger, it is open, imho, because it is Tiger + Known HGH Dr. Galea. It is this addition of a known PED smuggler that causes the connection to remain.

[bscinstnct]

Tigerrrrrrr!

Incline Pressing 75s?! That's more than Arnold. No way he moves that without help.

[media=]http://youtu.be/E7y-5BQ5Jn8[/media]

[puttingmatt]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425653138' post='11089459']
[b]Proof of the 63 visits ??? PED's do not improve talent.. If so as ive stated three times now, we would have more winners.. your opinion is yours, I am just saying maybe wait until some proof is shown before committing 100% to the guilt of someone who really does not even have the slightest reason to use PEDs[/b]



The 63 visits is widely reported, so if you have not read it then you have not followed the story closely enough. Your claim that PED's do not improve talent isn't on point, they do improve areas of athletic competition like endurance, stamina, recovery and focus that are required by golfers. PED's improve endurance and recovery = fact. Not opinion, fact.

No one is claiming it has been proven beyond doubt that Tiger took PED's. No, what they are saying is that there is plenty that is known for people to believe he might have taken them, and for people to believe his story doesn't add up. If you can't accept these things then there isn't much anyone can do about that. I can accept that you feel the way you do. No problem. It's a big world with a lot of points of view, so there is room for both perspectives. Like I said, if Tiger didn't want people to think he might have used HGH, he shouldn't have hired Dr. Galea. He brought much of this on himself. His self inflicted wounds are a trend with him.
[/quote]

Bingo, Excellent post !!!

[rpl1971]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425653138' post='11089459']
[b]Proof of the 63 visits ??? PED's do not improve talent.. If so as ive stated three times now, we would have more winners.. your opinion is yours, I am just saying maybe wait until some proof is shown before committing 100% to the guilt of someone who really does not even have the slightest reason to use PEDs[/b]



The 63 visits is widely reported, so if you have not read it then you have not followed the story closely enough. Your claim that PED's do not improve talent isn't on point, they do improve areas of athletic competition like endurance, stamina, recovery and focus that are required by golfers. PED's improve endurance and recovery = fact. Not opinion, fact.

No one is claiming it has been proven beyond doubt that Tiger took PED's. No, what they are saying is that there is plenty that is known for people to believe he might have taken them, and for people to believe his story doesn't add up. If you can't accept these things then there isn't much anyone can do about that. I can accept that you feel the way you do. No problem. It's a big world with a lot of points of view, so there is room for both perspectives. Like I said, if Tiger didn't want people to think he might have used HGH, he shouldn't have hired Dr. Galea. He brought much of this on himself. His self inflicted wounds are a trend with him.
[/quote]

63 visits is common knowledge right ??? ok you would now.. Endurance and recovery for a walking game,, really ?? I walk 3 rounds a week and I dont NEED peds to recover or have endurance. Now the diference between my 82 and Tiger or any other pro's score is talent not endurance nor recovery... I would think that would be common sense but maybe that is too much to ask for

[Smith65]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425654523' post='11089623']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425653138' post='11089459']
[b]Proof of the 63 visits ??? PED's do not improve talent.. If so as ive stated three times now, we would have more winners.. your opinion is yours, I am just saying maybe wait until some proof is shown before committing 100% to the guilt of someone who really does not even have the slightest reason to use PEDs[/b]



The 63 visits is widely reported, so if you have not read it then you have not followed the story closely enough. Your claim that PED's do not improve talent isn't on point, they do improve areas of athletic competition like endurance, stamina, recovery and focus that are required by golfers. PED's improve endurance and recovery = fact. Not opinion, fact.

No one is claiming it has been proven beyond doubt that Tiger took PED's. No, what they are saying is that there is plenty that is known for people to believe he might have taken them, and for people to believe his story doesn't add up. If you can't accept these things then there isn't much anyone can do about that. I can accept that you feel the way you do. No problem. It's a big world with a lot of points of view, so there is room for both perspectives. Like I said, if Tiger didn't want people to think he might have used HGH, he shouldn't have hired Dr. Galea. He brought much of this on himself. His self inflicted wounds are a trend with him.
[/quote]

63 visits is common knowledge right ??? ok you would now.. Endurance and recovery for a walking game,, really ?? I walk 3 rounds a week and I dont NEED peds to recover or have endurance. Now the diference between my 82 and Tiger or any other pro's score is talent not endurance nor recovery... I would think that would be common sense but maybe that is too much to ask for
[/quote]

I do not mean to be disrepsectful, but you are not getting it.

Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.

Recovery and Endurance for a walking game, you ask with incredulity. Your 82 injected with punctuation to prove some point you think holds merit? Yes. Incredululous as this may seem to you, your 82 has nothing to do with why a golfer might choose to do PED's. Tiger would not be competing against your 82, but rather against a tour player's 65. Tiger would also not be trying to recover from walking three rounds per week, but rather from surgical procedures, and from practicing and working out 10 hours per day for months on end.

[bscinstnct]

"Most of the serious charges against Galea were dropped by U.S. authorities in a plea deal in which the doctor agreed to turn over a list of his patients and the treatment each of them received under his care.

 

A particular treatment disclosed by Catalano -- a "cocktail injection of medication including Human Growth Hormone" -- for athletes with knee injuries was given to "at least seven athletes," according to an ESPN report citing documents obtained from the investigation.

Woods, however, was said to have had platelet plasma therapy. The procedure involves separating red blood cells from a sample and injecting the platelets into the injured area of the athlete. The experimental procedure is not illegal and is thought to significantly decrease recovery time for injured athletes.

 

"I tell you categorically that Tiger did not receive either banned or performance-enhancing drugs when treating with Dr. Galea," said attorney Rod Personius in an email to the Daily News."

 

http://articles.chic...r-anthony-galea

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ZombieDave]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425654990' post='11089659']


Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.
[/quote]

Facts aren't determined by the number of times something is repeated. What's the source of the information? (Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread.)

[djmohab2]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1425654039' post='11089555']
Incline Pressing 75s?! That's more than Arnold. No way he moves that without help.
[/quote]

It's the Nike One branded winter hat. That's where he harnesses the energy from.

[nbg352]

The Galea investigation and trial should have uncovered any evidence that might lead them to believe Woods was being given PEDs. All remained quiet as no evidence was brought forward.
Try as it might, the invasive press corp, clearly not a Woods fan, has not been able to dig up anything that would suggest PED use by Woods. Either Woods is smarter than we think or the investigative body and the press are dumb as bricks.
It is clear to me that many posters in this thread have wildly vivid imaginations. Fortunately, it takes more than a vivid imagination and rampant, speculative theorems to convince the sane that Woods did anything more than do what he and his medical team thought was necessary and legal to put his body back together again so that he could begin to perform again at the level he has since he was a child.
I'd rather remain a naive child in this matter than run around screaming that the sky is falling and that the wolf that wasn't, is coming for us. There is nothing to this story except for the one that resides in the minds of those who perpetrate fantasy because they want to see Woods fall. Gotta love 'em.......

[rpl1971]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425654990' post='11089659']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425654523' post='11089623']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425653138' post='11089459']
[b]Proof of the 63 visits ??? PED's do not improve talent.. If so as ive stated three times now, we would have more winners.. your opinion is yours, I am just saying maybe wait until some proof is shown before committing 100% to the guilt of someone who really does not even have the slightest reason to use PEDs[/b]



The 63 visits is widely reported, so if you have not read it then you have not followed the story closely enough. Your claim that PED's do not improve talent isn't on point, they do improve areas of athletic competition like endurance, stamina, recovery and focus that are required by golfers. PED's improve endurance and recovery = fact. Not opinion, fact.

No one is claiming it has been proven beyond doubt that Tiger took PED's. No, what they are saying is that there is plenty that is known for people to believe he might have taken them, and for people to believe his story doesn't add up. If you can't accept these things then there isn't much anyone can do about that. I can accept that you feel the way you do. No problem. It's a big world with a lot of points of view, so there is room for both perspectives. Like I said, if Tiger didn't want people to think he might have used HGH, he shouldn't have hired Dr. Galea. He brought much of this on himself. His self inflicted wounds are a trend with him.
[/quote]

63 visits is common knowledge right ??? ok you would now.. Endurance and recovery for a walking game,, really ?? I walk 3 rounds a week and I dont NEED peds to recover or have endurance. Now the diference between my 82 and Tiger or any other pro's score is talent not endurance nor recovery... I would think that would be common sense but maybe that is too much to ask for
[/quote]

I do not mean to be disrepsectful, but you are not getting it.

Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.

Recovery and Endurance for a walking game, you ask with incredulity. Your 82 injected with punctuation to prove some point you think holds merit? Yes. Incredululous as this may seem to you, your 82 has nothing to do with why a golfer might choose to do PED's. Tiger would not be competing against your 82, but rather against a tour player's 65. Tiger would also not be trying to recover from walking three rounds per week, but rather from surgical procedures, and from practicing and working out 10 hours per day for months on end.
[/quote]

I am not getting it because with all due respect, your dilusions are not "it". There is no proof at all, direct or indirect that Tiger ever took anything resembling PEDs. My point about my 82 was a attempt to maybe make you understand that unlike the other "sports" Golf is about as un-athletic as a "sport" can be , excluding bowling. PED's do not help PLAYING Golf. PED's only help with strength based sports. You seem to miss that but again your are entitled to your opinion, as wrong as that maybe.

[Smith65]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425655988' post='11089747']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425654990' post='11089659']
Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.
[/quote]

Facts aren't determined by the number of times something is repeated. [b]What's the source of the information?[/b] (Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread.)
[/quote]

[color=#111111][indent=3.375][b]Tiger Woods paid Canadian human growth hormone guru Anthony Galea and an associate almost $200,000 for 63 visits to the golfer’s home[/b] [b]between September of 2008 and October of 2009[/b], [b]according to a recently released book that raises new questions about the drugs and treatment the Toronto sports physician provided the four-time Masters champion.[/b][/color][/indent]
[color=#111111][indent=3.375][b]Galea received more than $76,000 for visiting Woods 14 times while Woods recovered from knee surgery between January and August of 2009, according to “Blood Sport” by Tim Elfrink and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The book also cites a Florida Department of Health investigation that found Mark Lindsay, Galea’s associate, charged Woods more than $118,000 for 49 visits.[/b][/color][/indent]
[color=#111111][indent=3.375]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tiger-woods-spent-200k-hgh-guru-doc-new-book-article-1.1860280[/color][/indent]
[color=#111111][indent=3.375]You can question the authors, but it would be quite a reach to question an investigation run by the Florida Dept. of Health, and this is why I accept the 63 visits as being accurate. But feel free to think it is all made up to get Tiger. Like I said, it is a big country with lots of room for opposing points of view. Just note that I did not make the 63 visits number up out of thin air. The number is widely known and pretty much widely accepted outside of Tiger's staunchest fans. [/color][/indent]

[avrag]

[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425657649' post='11089961']
PED's do not help PLAYING Golf. PED's only help with strength based sports.
[/quote]

Do you even care to read other posts in this thread?
[u][b]P[/b][/u]erformance
[u][b]E[/b][/u]nhancing
[u][b]D[/b][/u]rugs

Performance.
Not Muscle Building Drugs, not Strength Enhancing Drugs.

Do you have any idea what performance enhancing drugs are? For the umpteenth time: They are not just chemicals which make your muscles bigger or stronger.

Read, and make sure that you read further than Chapters S1 and S2, and take special note of chapters S6 to S9 and P1 and P2.

[url="https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada-2015-prohibited-list-en.pdf"]https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada-2015-prohibited-list-en.pdf[/url]

(And, yeah, ever since golf decided to become Olympic again, that's the law, plain and simple. Golf isn't like the NFL anymore, which can do whatever it sees fit.)

I honestly don't know where that myth about what is a PED and what is not comes from.

[nbg352]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425658480' post='11090043']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425655988' post='11089747']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425654990' post='11089659']
Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.
[/quote]

Facts aren't determined by the number of times something is repeated. [b]What's the source of the information?[/b] (Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread.)
[/quote]


[indent=3][color=#111111]375][b]Tiger Woods paid Canadian human growth hormone guru Anthony Galea and an associate almost $200,000 for 63 visits to the golfer’s home[/b] [b]between September of 2008 and October of 2009[/b], [b]according to a recently released book that raises new questions about the drugs and treatment the Toronto sports physician provided the four-time Masters champion.[/b][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][b]Galea received more than $76,000 for visiting Woods 14 times while Woods recovered from knee surgery between January and August of 2009, according to “Blood Sport” by Tim Elfrink and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The book also cites a Florida Department of Health investigation that found Mark Lindsay, Galea’s associate, charged Woods more than $118,000 for 49 visits.[/b][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tiger-woods-spent-200k-hgh-guru-doc-new-book-article-1.1860280"]http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1860280[/url][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375]You can question the authors, but it would be quite a reach to question an investigation run by the Florida Dept. of Health, and this is why I accept the 63 visits as being accurate. But feel free to think it is all made up to get Tiger. Like I said, it is a big country with lots of room for opposing points of view. Just note that I did not make the 63 visits number up out of thin air. The number is widely known and pretty much widely accepted outside of Tiger's staunchest fans. [/color][/indent]
[/quote]
And yet, with all that tasty, tempting fodder available, an indefatigueable press has been unable, much to it's chagrin, I imagine, to put together anything resembling evidence that these visits were anything more than what Galea and the Woods camp have insisted all along.
The evidence of misdeed in this thread reminds me of that which was typically deemed suitable in a politically charged 1950's, Salem and by inquisitorial types way back when and over there.......

[Shilgy]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425658480' post='11090043']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425655988' post='11089747']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425654990' post='11089659']
Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.
[/quote]

Facts aren't determined by the number of times something is repeated. [b]What's the source of the information?[/b] (Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread.)
[/quote]

[indent=3]375][b]Tiger Woods paid Canadian human growth hormone guru Anthony Galea and an associate almost $200,000 for 63 visits to the golfer’s home[/b] [b]between September of 2008 and October of 2009[/b], [b]according to a recently released book that raises new questions about the drugs and treatment the Toronto sports physician provided the four-time Masters champion.[/b][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][b]Galea received more than $76,000 for visiting Woods 14 times while Woods recovered from knee surgery between January and August of 2009, according to “Blood Sport” by Tim Elfrink and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The book also cites a Florida Department of Health investigation that found Mark Lindsay, Galea’s associate, charged Woods more than $118,000 for 49 visits.[/b][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tiger-woods-spent-200k-hgh-guru-doc-new-book-article-1.1860280"]http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1860280[/url][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375]You can question the authors, but it would be quite a reach to question an investigation run by the Florida Dept. of Health, and this is why I accept the 63 visits as being accurate. But feel free to think it is all made up to get Tiger. Like I said, it is a big country with lots of room for opposing points of view. Just note that I did not make the 63 visits number up out of thin air. The number is widely known and pretty much widely accepted outside of Tiger's staunchest fans. [/color][/indent]
[color=#111111][/quote][/color]

Earlier you cited the 63 visits as proof because the platelet therapy cannot be done that often, correct? In your article does it say 63 "visits" or 63 "treatments"? I can visit my doctor, who may or may not have a shady side-I am not certain, 63 times and only get treatment 10 times. The other times are to test for progress. Is that likely as proof in your book?

[Smith65]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1425657086' post='11089891']
The Galea investigation and trial should have uncovered any evidence that might lead them to believe Woods was being given PEDs.
[/quote]


Not really. For starters, one would not expect Galea to have kept detailed written records on the subject. True, 7 names came up in the investigation, but we don't know exactly how they obtained those names. They could have come from Catalano or they could have come from Galea's notes on his seized computer for all we know. We do not know is the nature opf his record keeping. Two, Galea was charged by the US Attorney for Western New York for some quite serious charges, including smuggling and lieing to US Border Authorities. If he would lie in one instance, who is to say he would not lie about something else?

You can read about the US Attorney's Charges here: http://www.fbi.gov/buffalo/press-releases/2010/bffo051810.htm

Also, the primary reason we do not know the details of the joint investigations into Galea is the fact he plead guilty, thus avoiding the discovery that would have occurred in an open court case. Who knows what that discovery may have revealed? That + Tiger's explanation .... hence the speculation.

[bscinstnct]

The Galea investigation and trial should have uncovered any evidence that might lead them to believe Woods was being given PEDs.

 

 

Not really. For starters, one would not expect Galea to have kept detailed written records on the subject. True, 7 names came up in the investigation, but we don't know exactly how they obtained those names. They could have come from Catalano or they could have come from Galea's notes on his seized computer for all we know. We do not know is the nature opf his record keeping. Two, Galea was charged by the US Attorney for Western New York for some quite serious charges, including smuggling and lieing to US Border Authorities. If he would lie in one instance, who is to say he would not lie about something else?

 

You can read about the US Attorney's Charges here: http://www.fbi.gov/b.../bffo051810.htm

 

Also, the primary reason we do not know the details of the joint investigations into Galea is the fact he plead guilty, thus avoiding the discovery that would have occurred in an open court case. Who knows what that discovery may have revealed? That + Tiger's explanation .... hence the speculation.

 

Due respect but

 

You gotta be kidding.

 

Imagine you are sitting in a room with these guys

 

 

They have your life in their hands.

 

You lie, you go somewhere you don't want to go for a long time.

 

They offer you a chance. And you know they would want TW *BIG TIME*. Talk about a trophy to take down.

 

Who can do more for you?

 

TW or them?

 

Do you lie to them?

[Smith65]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1425659185' post='11090127']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425658480' post='11090043']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425655988' post='11089747']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425654990' post='11089659']
Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.
[/quote]

Facts aren't determined by the number of times something is repeated. [b]What's the source of the information?[/b] (Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread.)
[/quote]


[indent=3][color=#111111]375][b]Tiger Woods paid Canadian human growth hormone guru Anthony Galea and an associate almost $200,000 for 63 visits to the golfer’s home[/b] [b]between September of 2008 and October of 2009[/b], [b]according to a recently released book that raises new questions about the drugs and treatment the Toronto sports physician provided the four-time Masters champion.[/b][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][b]Galea received more than $76,000 for visiting Woods 14 times while Woods recovered from knee surgery between January and August of 2009, according to “Blood Sport” by Tim Elfrink and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The book also cites a Florida Department of Health investigation that found Mark Lindsay, Galea’s associate, charged Woods more than $118,000 for 49 visits.[/b][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tiger-woods-spent-200k-hgh-guru-doc-new-book-article-1.1860280"]http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1860280[/url][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375]You can question the authors, but it would be quite a reach to question an investigation run by the Florida Dept. of Health, and this is why I accept the 63 visits as being accurate. But feel free to think it is all made up to get Tiger. Like I said, it is a big country with lots of room for opposing points of view. Just note that I did not make the 63 visits number up out of thin air. The number is widely known and pretty much widely accepted outside of Tiger's staunchest fans. [/color][/indent]
[/quote]
[b]And yet, with all that tasty, tempting fodder available, an indefatigueable press has been unable, much to it's chagrin, I imagine, to put together anything resembling evidence that these visits were anything more than what Galea and the Woods camp have insisted all along.[/b]
The evidence of misdeed in this thread reminds me of that which was typically deemed suitable in a politically charged 1950's, Salem and by inquisitorial types way back when and over there.......
[/quote]


How would the press find out? Galea nor Woods (nor Lindsay) admit to anything, and there are no court records to ferret out the truthfulness of their statements. There is, to the chagrin of Tiger worshippers, known lies and deceptions told by both Tiger and Galea on related matters. Galea was told by border agents to not bring HGH into the US. His response was to try and get his asst. to bring it in for him, but she got caught and he wound up being charged and convicted. Tiger let the world think he had only four treatments from Galea, and his agent at IMG asked ESPN to not run with a story implicating him as to having a relationship with Galea. Given it ended up being 63 visits, not 4 visdits, does that sound honest? It sounds evasive and deceptive to me. That asking by the agent is found in a story written by highly respected investigative sports writer Don Van Natta.

But they aren't going to find anything unless it comes from Galea, Lindsay or Tiger and none of them have any reason to come forth on that count. He is also unlikely to get cauight in a blood test because HGH is nearly undetectable after 24 hours. But it won't stop people from speculating. Why? Because of the relationship with Galea, the doctor he chose to go to when, in fact, he could have chose from hundreds of equally qualified blood platelate spinning doctors who are not associated with PED's.

Tiger brought this speculation on himself.

[ZombieDave]

So the theory is, in 2008, after having the best amateur career in history, the most successful first 12 years of a professional career in history, including 14 majors and at the time looking a dead cert to surpass 18 major wins, Tiger decides to start using PEDs at the same time as the PGA Tour decide to start testing for them....

I accept the Galea connection raises eyebrows, but nothing else about it makes sense.

[rpl1971]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1425659092' post='11090117']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425657649' post='11089961']
PED's do not help PLAYING Golf. PED's only help with strength based sports.
[/quote]

Do you even care to read other posts in this thread?
[u][b]P[/b][/u]erformance
[u][b]E[/b][/u]nhancing
[u][b]D[/b][/u]rugs

Performance.
Not Muscle Building Drugs, not Strength Enhancing Drugs.

Do you have any idea what performance enhancing drugs are? For the umpteenth time: They are not just chemicals which make your muscles bigger or stronger.

Read, and make sure that you read further than Chapters S1 and S2, and take special note of chapters S6 to S9 and P1 and P2.

[url="https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada-2015-prohibited-list-en.pdf"]https://wada-main-pr...ted-list-en.pdf[/url]

(And, yeah, ever since golf decided to become Olympic again, that's the law, plain and simple. Golf isn't like the NFL anymore, which can do whatever it sees fit.)

I honestly don't know where that myth about what is a PED and what is not comes from.
[/quote]

In that entire list which one of the substances can help in PLAYING golf ???? simple question really .... Oh and you still dont have proof Tiger took any PEDs

[nbg352]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425659619' post='11090183']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1425657086' post='11089891']
The Galea investigation and trial should have uncovered any evidence that might lead them to believe Woods was being given PEDs.
[/quote]


Not really. For starters, one would not expect Galea to have kept detailed written records on the subject. True, 7 names came up in the investigation, but we don't know exactly how they obtained those names. They could have come from Catalano or they could have come from Galea's notes on his seized computer for all we know. We do not know is the nature opf his record keeping. Two, Galea was charged by the US Attorney for Western New York for some quite serious charges, including smuggling and lieing to US Border Authorities. If he would lie in one instance, who is to say he would not lie about something else?

You can read about the US Attorney's Charges here: [url="http://www.fbi.gov/buffalo/press-releases/2010/bffo051810.htm"]http://www.fbi.gov/b.../bffo051810.htm[/url]

Also, the primary reason we do not know the details of the joint investigations into Galea is the fact he plead guilty, thus avoiding the discovery that would have occurred in an open court case. Who knows what that discovery may have revealed? That + Tiger's explanation .... hence the speculation.
[/quote]
And still, no investigative body or journalist of any ilk has been able to work this puzzle through?
I suggest that the reason for this is that there is no more to this than a hill of beans.
By all means follow your head with this. But kindly leave the rest of us be. Unless, of course, you can present us all with something that is concrete. Being visited by a doctor 63 times at a time when one would expect Woods to be under constant or frequent care of a medical professional is hardly concrete evidence for PED use. Especially since Galea, known for supplying them to athletes, is also considered to have been first and foremost, well respected by medical peers in his chosen field of medicine,

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1425648831' post='11089071']
[quote name='rpl1971' timestamp='1425648051' post='11089017']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425647725' post='11088995']
[quote name='nochct1' timestamp='1425646276' post='11088915']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1425600431' post='11086245']
Oh... And steroids/PEDs have huge mental effects.

Confidence goes up (you feel stronger and more capable, and testosterone increases are directly linked to mental state)

Aggression goes up. Killer instinct anyone.

If there was amphetamine use (no link to woods but just mentioning another big PED), increases in alertness and focus.

Most peds are highly regulated hormones or precursors/releasing factors. They don't just localize in your muscles guys.
[/quote]

e get it, you're 100% convinced about Tiger using PEDs and you're using your knowledge of the subject to cover for bias on the matter. If you are such an expert, then you should have a list of names of other players that you suspect have used PEDs.
[/quote]


I can't speak for the guy you are questioning here, but my list includes only those players who are known to have used PED's or known to have associated with drug peddlers like Dr. Anthony Galea and Associates. Those players who not only associate with drug peddlers, but come up with lame and easily seen thru excuses for such association. That entire list as far as I know is three golfers, the two guys the Tour suspended thus far plus Tiger Woods.
[/quote]

Unfortunately for you the only treatment he got was the Plalette treatment which is 100% legal. Now you keep mentioning you "know" Tiger took PED's. Please let me know how PED's can help in golf ??? If it can then why not more "winners" ??? If it can they why not more "Major Winners" ???
[/quote]

He can't. No matter how hard he tries he can't say he knows Tiger took PEDS because he doesn't know. He has an opinion, just like the rest of us. He just happens to be much more vocal about his opinion and tries to convince as many others as he can that he is correct despite having zero proof that Tiger did anything illegal.
[/quote]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of my opinion on Woods. At all.

I am trying to get people to stop being blind to the multiple red flags, and realize that they shouldn't be ignored, and at the very least, people who look at these factors and get suspecious, are reasonable in their view.

For me, the single biggest factor is Galea. There have been multiple similar situations in other sports. BALCO and biogenesis being the most publicly known. When a high profile athlete is linked to these situations, red flags are raised. At that point, you evaluate the other circumstances surrounding woods specifically, and then a bunch of other suspecious things pop up as well.

Considering Galea was giving PEDs to other high profile athletes, and Woods was paying him a boatload of money for private treatments at a time he was dealing with injuries etc., I find it incredibly unlikely the doctor wouldn't at least tell woods about his little side business and how (specifically HGH) could help him get back on track.

He didn't see this guy one time guys!

Reality, if Woods did take PEDs and dominated even more so due to them, YOU ALL SHOULD BE THANKING TIGER FOR DOING SO!

Woods changed the entire culture of golf. It went from a sport for old white guys, considered cool by almost nobody, to being considered a real sport for real athletes.

I never wanted to get overly vocal in this thread, but seeing the inaccurate and unreasonable claims by people in both camps, I felt it would be nice for the thread to contain actual information on PEDs, testing policies, etc.

I mean really, how many of you people have actually spent time with individuals you absolutely know we're on or had taken PEDs? I've spent time with easily over 100 in Professional baseball. I've seen guys that were flat obvious and guys who you never would have guessed.

How many of you have an actual background in biochemistry, pharmacology, molecular biology, or neuroscience? Judging by the majority of posts, not many.

Regardless of my opinion on Woods, which I think is reasonable suspicion, my intended contribution to the thread was to give factual insight of the issues surrounding PEDs in sports.

I think a lot of people have appreciated such information, and my posts have been for them.

[legitimategolf]

[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425660234' post='11090229']
So the theory is, in 2008, after having the best amateur career in history, the most successful first 12 years of a professional career in history, including 14 majors and at the time looking a dead cert to surpass 18 major wins, Tiger decides to start using PEDs at the same time as the PGA Tour decide to start testing for them....[/quote]

To me the best part of all of this is that Tiger even in the face of all this damning clear-as-day evidence GOT AWAY WITH IT SCOTT FREE.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GO TIGER

USA

BABABOOEY

[nbg352]

[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425660149' post='11090219']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1425659185' post='11090127']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425658480' post='11090043']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1425655988' post='11089747']
[quote name='Smith65' timestamp='1425654990' post='11089659']
Yes, I would know about the 63 visits. I would know because I can read and there have been 100's of articles written about the 63 visits. Hundreds of articles written make it common knowledge, even if you did not catch on to it.
[/quote]

Facts aren't determined by the number of times something is repeated. [b]What's the source of the information?[/b] (Apologies if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread.)
[/quote]



[indent=3][color=#111111]375][b]Tiger Woods paid Canadian human growth hormone guru Anthony Galea and an associate almost $200,000 for 63 visits to the golfer’s home[/b] [b]between September of 2008 and October of 2009[/b], [b]according to a recently released book that raises new questions about the drugs and treatment the Toronto sports physician provided the four-time Masters champion.[/b][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][b]Galea received more than $76,000 for visiting Woods 14 times while Woods recovered from knee surgery between January and August of 2009, according to “Blood Sport” by Tim Elfrink and Gus Garcia-Roberts. The book also cites a Florida Department of Health investigation that found Mark Lindsay, Galea’s associate, charged Woods more than $118,000 for 49 visits.[/b][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375][url="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/tiger-woods-spent-200k-hgh-guru-doc-new-book-article-1.1860280"]http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1860280[/url][/color][/indent]
[indent=3][color=#111111]375]You can question the authors, but it would be quite a reach to question an investigation run by the Florida Dept. of Health, and this is why I accept the 63 visits as being accurate. But feel free to think it is all made up to get Tiger. Like I said, it is a big country with lots of room for opposing points of view. Just note that I did not make the 63 visits number up out of thin air. The number is widely known and pretty much widely accepted outside of Tiger's staunchest fans. [/color][/indent]
[/quote]
[b]And yet, with all that tasty, tempting fodder available, an indefatigueable press has been unable, much to it's chagrin, I imagine, to put together anything resembling evidence that these visits were anything more than what Galea and the Woods camp have insisted all along.[/b]
The evidence of misdeed in this thread reminds me of that which was typically deemed suitable in a politically charged 1950's, Salem and by inquisitorial types way back when and over there.......
[/quote]


How would the press find out? Galea nor Woods (nor Lindsay) admit to anything, and there are no court records to ferret out the truthfulness of their statements. There is, to the chagrin of Tiger worshippers, known lies and deceptions told by both Tiger and Galea on related matters. Galea was told by border agents to not bring HGH into the US. His response was to try and get his asst. to bring it in for him, but she got caught and he wound up being charged and convicted. Tiger let the world think he had only four treatments from Galea, and his agent at IMG asked ESPN to not run with a story implicating him as to having a relationship with Galea. Given it ended up being 63 visits, not 4 visdits, does that sound honest? It sounds evasive and deceptive to me. That asking by the agent is found in a story written by highly respected investigative sports writer Don Van Natta.

But they aren't going to find anything unless it comes from Galea, Lindsay or Tiger and none of them have any reason to come forth on that count. He is also unlikely to get cauight in a blood test because HGH is nearly undetectable after 24 hours. But it won't stop people from speculating. Why? Because of the relationship with Galea, the doctor he chose to go to when, in fact, he could have chose from hundreds of equally qualified blood platelate spinning doctors who are not associated with PED's.

Tiger brought this speculation on himself.
[/quote]

No, people like you brought on this speculation. People like you who want to see him taken down, but try to convince those around you that you are only presenting them with possibilities.
Too bad you can't hide your conviction in the matter. It is all too telling.

[Smith65]

[indent=3][b]Earlier you cited the 63 visits as proof because the platelet therapy cannot be done that often, correct? In your article does it say 63 "visits" or 63 "treatments"? I can visit my doctor, who may or may not have a shady side-I am not certain, 63 times and only get treatment 10 times. The other times are to test for progress. Is that likely as proof in your book[/b][/indent]


[indent=3]I cited the 63 visits because that is how many visits are known at this time. Known because of the investigation into Galea finding out about his14 visits plus the investigation done by the Florida Dept. of Health revealing the 49 vists by Lindsay. So the 63 visits I accept.[/indent]

[indent=3]I spoke about that number of visits relative to what they claimed the visits were for because I do not believe it all adds up, or makes sense. The two doctors saw Tiger for a little over 1 year. Since the normal platelate spinning therapy calls for getting the injecting and then having 6 weeks before the next injection, and typically only having a handful of injections in total, I think the explanation is patently absurd.[/indent]

[indent=3]But I do concede that it is possible in the sense that almost anything is possible that he had only a handful of visits for injections from the HGH docs and all the rest of them were for progress evaluations. Anything is possible.[/indent]

[indent=3]I would not expect your doctor or any other doctor to be "shady", to use your word. Now, if he got himself arrested for PED smuggling, and also with added charges for lieing to US authorities, then all bets are off and yes, I would then think he was shady. You seem to assume this Canadian PED peddler who was charged by two governments is squeaky clean. Which of our two positions is on less sturdy ground?[/indent]

[indent=3]1. Doctor with known ties to PED's is caught and criminally charged by two different national governments is believed to be shady[/indent]

[indent=3]OR[/indent]

[indent=3]2. Doctor with known ties to PED's is caught and criminally charged by two different national governments is believed to be squeaky clean[/indent]

[indent=3]It is the latter, not the former, that lacks sound reasoning.[/indent]

[Mahamilto]

The Galea investigation and trial should have uncovered any evidence that might lead them to believe Woods was being given PEDs.

 

 

Not really. For starters, one would not expect Galea to have kept detailed written records on the subject. True, 7 names came up in the investigation, but we don't know exactly how they obtained those names. They could have come from Catalano or they could have come from Galea's notes on his seized computer for all we know. We do not know is the nature opf his record keeping. Two, Galea was charged by the US Attorney for Western New York for some quite serious charges, including smuggling and lieing to US Border Authorities. If he would lie in one instance, who is to say he would not lie about something else?

 

You can read about the US Attorney's Charges here: http://www.fbi.gov/b.../bffo051810.htm

 

Also, the primary reason we do not know the details of the joint investigations into Galea is the fact he plead guilty, thus avoiding the discovery that would have occurred in an open court case. Who knows what that discovery may have revealed? That + Tiger's explanation .... hence the speculation.

 

Due respect but

 

You gotta be kidding.

 

Imagine you are sitting in a room with these guys

 

 

They have your life in their hands.

 

You lie, you go somewhere you don't want to go for a long time.

 

They offer you a chance. And you know they would want TW *BIG TIME*. Talk about a trophy to take down.

 

Who can do more for you?

 

TW or them?

 

Do you lie to them?

 

The CEO of Balco sat in a room with those same guys and evoked his 5th amendment right when it came to Barry Bonds, and went to jail over it. I'm pretty sure these interrogations aren't taking place at Guantanamo Bay.

[Smith65]

[b]No, people like you brought on this speculation. People like you who want to see him taken down, but try to convince those around you that you are only presenting them with possibilities.[/b]
[b]Too bad you can't hide your conviction in the matter. It is all too telling.[/b]



People were speculating at every major sports news outlet in the US long before I ever thought to get involved in the discussion. Like the other gentleman here, I got involved with the discussion because of all of the outright misconceptions people have about both PED's and this story.

Funny, you object when others speculate about Tiger's reasoning, yet willingly speculate yourself about our reasons for joining the discussion. That is defined by Webster as hypocrisy. Here is another thing, trying to drag down your adversary in any debate is the first sign that you haven't much to offer in rebuttal. Must be frustrating.

[bscinstnct]

The Galea investigation and trial should have uncovered any evidence that might lead them to believe Woods was being given PEDs.

 

 

Not really. For starters, one would not expect Galea to have kept detailed written records on the subject. True, 7 names came up in the investigation, but we don't know exactly how they obtained those names. They could have come from Catalano or they could have come from Galea's notes on his seized computer for all we know. We do not know is the nature opf his record keeping. Two, Galea was charged by the US Attorney for Western New York for some quite serious charges, including smuggling and lieing to US Border Authorities. If he would lie in one instance, who is to say he would not lie about something else?

 

You can read about the US Attorney's Charges here: http://www.fbi.gov/b.../bffo051810.htm

 

Also, the primary reason we do not know the details of the joint investigations into Galea is the fact he plead guilty, thus avoiding the discovery that would have occurred in an open court case. Who knows what that discovery may have revealed? That + Tiger's explanation .... hence the speculation.

 

Due respect but

 

You gotta be kidding.

 

Imagine you are sitting in a room with these guys

 

 

They have your life in their hands.

 

You lie, you go somewhere you don't want to go for a long time.

 

They offer you a chance. And you know they would want TW *BIG TIME*. Talk about a trophy to take down.

 

Who can do more for you?

 

TW or them?

 

Do you lie to them?

 

The CEO of Balco sat in a room with those same guys and evoked his 5th amendment right when it came to Barry Bonds, and went to jail over it. I'm pretty sure these interrogations aren't taking place at Guantanamo Bay.

 

"U.S. authorities in a plea deal in which the doctor agreed to turn over a list of his patients and the treatment each of them received under his care."

 

"I tell you categorically that Tiger did not receive either banned or performance-enhancing drugs when treating with Dr. Galea," said attorney Rod Personius in an email to the Daily News."

 

http://articles.chic...r-anthony-galea

 

 

 

Little different than "evoked his 5th amendment right"