No new acquistions...?

[bcstones]

18 minutes ago, Shallowface said:

The less expensive Powerbilt line was called the Grand Slam.  Probably more sporting goods store level than true pro line but still a very good club.

Ah...well, actually way back when, "Grand Slam" was a professional line...yes, it was used in the retail line, but associated w/another name - like "Grand Slam Mars 70" or "Grand Slam Louisville Slugger" or "Grand Slam Atlas" or

"Grand Slam Troy". The 1974 PowerBilt woods model 80950 is in the Professional pages of the catalog. I'm thinking that H&B stopped selling retail around 1970...course, that doesn't mean that the non-Citation cluibs weren't offered retail, however Maltby also mentions this club in '74 & they don't list retail lines....

I totally agree - "still a very good club"...I think H&B is probably the most underrated company in the US when they were family owned (1916 - 2000something)

[Shallowface]

16 hours ago, bcstones said:

Ah...well, actually way back when, "Grand Slam" was a professional line...yes, it was used in the retail line, but associated w/another name - like "Grand Slam Mars 70" or "Grand Slam Louisville Slugger" or "Grand Slam Atlas" or

"Grand Slam Troy". The 1974 PowerBilt woods model 80950 is in the Professional pages of the catalog. I'm thinking that H&B stopped selling retail around 1970...course, that doesn't mean that the non-Citation cluibs weren't offered retail, however Maltby also mentions this club in '74 & they don't list retail lines....

I totally agree - "still a very good club"...I think H&B is probably the most underrated company in the US when they were family owned (1916 - 2000something)

No disrespect intended (and I'm sure you didn't either, but posts that begin with "ah" or "um" sound like a teacher dressing down an ignorant pupil), but there is no one who knows anything about Powerbilt clubs that would consider the Grand Slam clubs of the 70s and 80s, which is the era of the clubs in your pictures, on the same level as the Citation and Scotch Blade lines of that day, regardless of where they fall in the catalog or if they happen to score a listing in the Maltby guide.  The suggested retail prices are indicative of the differences in the level of the products.

 

I'm sure this was true in the days prior to the advent of the off course pro shop, but just because a club was only available for purchase from a golf professional doesn't mean it was on the same level as the top of the line products.  Even if they all fall under the term "pro line" it doesn't mean they are equivalent products. 

 

The Maltby guide isn't totally free of retail lines.  Have a look at the Ram section.  Or Northwestern.  I know what the foreword to the Maltby Guide says, but there are exceptions.   

 

 

 

   

Edited January 21 by Shallowface

[bcstones]

13 hours ago, Shallowface said:

No disrespect intended (and I'm sure you didn't either, but posts that begin with "ah" or "um" sound like a teacher dressing down an ignorant pupil), but there is no one who knows anything about Powerbilt clubs that would consider the Grand Slam clubs of the 70s and 80s, which is the era of the clubs in your pictures, on the same level as the Citation and Scotch Blade lines of that day, regardless of where they fall in the catalog or if they happen to score a listing in the Maltby guide.  The suggested retail prices are indicative of the differences in the level of the products.

 

I'm sure this was true in the days prior to the advent of the off course pro shop, but just because a club was only available for purchase from a golf professional doesn't mean it was on the same level as the top of the line products.  Even if they all fall under the term "pro line" it doesn't mean they are equivalent products. 

 

The Maltby guide isn't totally free of retail lines.  Have a look at the Ram section.  Or Northwestern.  I know what the foreword to the Maltby Guide says, but there are exceptions.   

 

 

 

   

Thank you, no disrespect was intended...matter of fact, I was often on the receiving end of that dressing for using "ah" or "um" 😂 and have the scars yet today.

 

My point was that H&B, around 1970, dropped their store/retail line & focused on the professional "PowerBilt" clubs. As far I can tell there are no Grand Slam clubs in the '70s or '80s.

The woods I showed have no Grand Slam markings, only PowerBilt.

The only difference between PowerBilt laminated club & the Citation PowerBilt laminate club was that brass back weight (well, ok - the sole plates are different only in the stamping)...it only makes sense that the precision needed to place it, with minimal tolerance, should be added to overall cost. It seem logical to me, that dropping the retail line, H&B still didn't leave the normal golfer adrift - a duffer like me could still buy an excellent club or set at the pro-shop of the course I play.

 

Gotta admit, never looked at the Maltby's Ram section (never really been interested in the line...tho, I've enjoy the postings here) & thought the history of Northwestern interesting (I had no idea that NW began w/a professional line...and were so prolific that their reputation got a bit smersched)...anyway, I take w/a huge grain of salt what is said in Kaplan's & Maltby's.

Edited January 21 by bcstones

[Maine Golfer]

As seen on 90s TV! I got the tennis balls to cut one in two, work on making sure Im getting onto my left side well for my swing. 

 

As 

[Shallowface]

1 hour ago, bcstones said:

Thank you, no disrespect was intended...matter of fact, I was often on the receiving end of that dressing for using "ah" or "um" 😂 and have the scars yet today.

 

My point was that H&B, around 1970, dropped their store/retail line & focused on the professional "PowerBilt" clubs. As far I can tell there are no Grand Slam clubs in the '70s or '80s.

The woods I showed have no Grand Slam markings, only PowerBilt.

The only difference between PowerBilt laminated club & the Citation PowerBilt laminate club was that brass back weight (well, ok - the sole plates are different only in the stamping)...it only makes sense that the precision needed to place it, with minimal tolerance, should be added to overall cost. It seem logical to me, that dropping the retail line, H&B still didn't leave the normal golfer adrift - a duffer like me could still buy an excellent club or set at the pro-shop of the course I play.

 

Gotta admit, never looked at the Maltby's Ram section (never really been interested in the line...tho, I've enjoy the postings here) & thought the history of Northwestern interesting (I had no idea that NW began w/a professional line...and were so prolific that their reputation got a bit smersched)...anyway, I take w/a huge grain of salt what is said in Kaplan's & Maltby's.

Powerbilt sold clubs labelled Grand Slam through the 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond.  Forged versions. Cast versions, one of which was somewhat of a copy of one of their own TPS models.  Oversized versions.  Metal woods.  They sold a cast club with Fuzzy Zoeller's name on it that could be found at K-Mart and may have been exclusive to them (I re-shafted one of those for my wife's uncle).  I'm sure you can find pictures of any or all of them on Ebay or Google.  But they certainly didn't abandon retail lines in the 70s.       

 

It appears the component company Hireko has the current rights to the Powerbilt name.

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, Shallowface said:

Powerbilt sold clubs labelled Grand Slam through the 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond.  Forged versions. Cast versions, one of which was somewhat of a copy of one of their own TPS models.  Oversized versions.  Metal woods.  They sold a cast club with Fuzzy Zoeller's name on it that could be found at K-Mart and may have been exclusive to them (I re-shafted one of those for my wife's uncle).  I'm sure you can find pictures of any or all of them on Ebay or Google.  But they certainly didn't abandon retail lines in the 70s.       

 

It appears the component company Hireko has the current rights to the Powerbilt name.

I've never seen a '70s or later Grand Slam, even when I helped out Odell in his shop for 6-8 years (about a decade ago)...but that doesn't mean much, I've got alot to learn. It was H&B  who claimed they stopped their retail line. Louisville in the early years, 100 years ago, was their professional line, it changed to PowerBilt some where in the '30s or '40s. 

 

I think I have a Fuzzy Zoeller wedge somewhere. I have a couple of PowerBilt Scotch Blades sets & a black TPS set (not sure the year for these, they have no number after the TPS, somewhere I came across a reference to "original" TPS). I also have a PowerBilt set from ~1956 & a complete Grand Slam Atlas, the back's reminiscent of MacGregory's diamond back clubs (pretty sure these are retail). Also some orphan clubs like a Grand Slam Troy 5 iron....

 

oh, yeah - last week or so back, I came across a Grand Slam Goal Post Alignment 9 iron (wondering if that is one of the ones you mentioned...if so, I can no longer say, I've never seen a 70s or later Grand Slam 😂)

 

In 2016, Hilco Streambank bought H&B, there are different licensee's throught the world...Hireko has the US licensee.

Edited January 21 by bcstones

[SnowbirdTom]

No idea what year these are. Don’t have the reference library resources.  😞

 

[ezgoer]

To muddy the waters. 
I have these Grand Slams. I’m told 54 I believe and Pro line. They have the green label TT Rocket shafts. Feel very nice. Firmer side for a persimon.  50’s short at about 42 or so for the driver but also where leather gripped cuz still have the dimpled shaft and wood in the butt so they were a little longer new than now.

And I have these 66 store line irons. Kinda a shame, they look fantastic but lack the buttery forged feel. I was wondering if they were cast till I was told the year. Just too early unless H&B was way ahead of the curve. 

Edited January 22 by ezgoer

[bcstones]

4 hours ago, SnowbirdTom said:

No idea what year these are. Don’t have the reference library resources.  😞

 

It's a Louisville Grand Slam, retail line....the back reminds me of some of the '60s PowerBilt irons (which in turn reminds me of early Hogan irons)

[bcstones]

6 minutes ago, ezgoer said:

To muddy the waters. 
I have these Grand Slams. I’m told 54 I believe and Pro line. They have the green label TT Rocket shafts. Feel very nice. Firmer side for a persimon.  50’s short at about 42 or so for the driver but also where leather gripped cuz still have the dimpled shaft and wood in the butt so they were a little longer new than now.

And I have these 66 store line irons. Kinda a shame, they look fantastic but lack the buttery forged feel. I was wondering if they were cast till I was told the year. Just too early unless H&B was way ahead of the curve. 

Those are beautiful woods....I too have a set of Louisville Slugger irons (needs to find a home). I wonder if the store line stayed the same for a number of years...they sure look the same. Maybe the shafts might be different from one year to the next.
 

[ezgoer]

1 minute ago, bcstones said:

Those are beautiful woods....I too have a set of Louisville Slugger irons (needs to find a home). I wonder if the store line stayed the same for a number of years...they sure look the same. Maybe the shafts might be different from one year to the next.
 

Thanks, my irons check every box except feel. They have fantastic almost midsize leather grips with the small reminder rod on the back side giving it the just out of round feel. Been awhile since I looked at them but is it Atmos shafts perhaps in them?? Have wondered if I reshafted them would the feeling improve but would be a waste of the grip. If that shaft is any good I should swap them into another old iron just for the grips 

[SnowbirdTom]

48 minutes ago, bcstones said:

It's a Louisville Grand Slam, retail line....the back reminds me of some of the '60s PowerBilt irons (which in turn reminds me of early Hogan irons)

They play nice.  Great feel for working the ball.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Some more Powerbilts, though these are much later. The 5 wood sits a little closed for my liking, but both should be good players.

[bcstones]

8 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Some more Powerbilts, though these are much later. The 5 wood sits a little closed for my liking, but both should be good players.

Thanks for showing....I'd read about the Pro-Sonic, but never seen one - looks great

[SnowbirdTom]

FINALLY!!  lol USPS Houston has some issues to address.  Two full weeks to get a Priority Mail package with my refreshed Honma Extra 90s back from MN.  On with the pictures for Sunday's bag of fun.  They came out really well done.  

 

 

[Coletrain]

Not really the place for this but I believe this thread gets the most eyes in the classic forum, and has been a bit dead of late. 

 

Does anyone have pictures of the BJD or BJM deep face drivers of the 40's? I've never seen one on here.

[bcstones]

11 hours ago, Coletrain said:

BJD or BJM deep face drivers

could you be a bit more specific for those of us who might not have your knowledge of what you're asking

[FloggingOkie]

Finally got out to the range after work today and got to try out my 67 Wilson Staff Dynapowers for the first time. I just installed fresh grips several weeks back and have been itching to try these clubs out. They are awsome! Rewarding on good hits, and not too bad on mis-hits. Can't wait to give them a proper workout soon. 

[Coletrain]

@bcstones

Macgregor made a line of deep face drivers I believe in 1940-41 time frame, I've only seen them in the Kaplan book. they might have been made for other years but I am not sure on what exactly happened to Mac during the war in both production and catalogs.

Edited February 9 by Coletrain

[bcstones]

6 hours ago, Coletrain said:

@bcstones

Macgregor made a line of deep face drivers I believe in 1940-41 time frame, I've only seen them in the Kaplan book. they might have been made for other years but I am not sure on what exactly happened to Mac during the war in both production and catalogs.

ah, thank you....I checked Kaplan's MacGregor - both those are first mentioned 1941 under the heading "Jumbo Model"....What happened to Mac, & the golf business as a whole, during WWII was that there was no production, all metals & materias were focused on the war prodction (I believe the same happened during WWI, what saved Mac during that time was their shoe last business)

[Coletrain]

22 hours ago, bcstones said:

ah, thank you....I checked Kaplan's MacGregor - both those are first mentioned 1941 under the heading "Jumbo Model"....What happened to Mac, & the golf business as a whole, during WWII was that there was no production, all metals & materias were focused on the war prodction (I believe the same happened during WWI, what saved Mac during that time was their shoe last business)

I had not heard of the shoe last side of Mac. 

My question still remains, does anyone have a pic of one of these?

[bcstones]

39 minutes ago, Coletrain said:

My question still remains, does anyone have a pic of one of these?

only from Kaplan's MacGregor book...I'd love to see a pic from the actual wood

[Jiggered]

3 hours ago, bcstones said:

only from Kaplan's MacGregor book...I'd love to see a pic from the actual wood

 

Here's a link to restorations by the great Dave Wood of a couple of BJM drivers.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/189830219415/posts/10160358505334416/

 

And another link here.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/189830219415/posts/10158910042709416/

 

 

Edited February 10 by Jiggered

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, Jiggered said:

 

Here's a link to restorations by the great Dave Wood of a couple of BJM drivers.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/189830219415/posts/10160358505334416/

 

And another link here.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/189830219415/posts/10158910042709416/

 

 

only problem is you have to join the Persommon Golf Society on that facebook thingy to view anything...I did try some time ago to join, but evidently torked off the administrator on the last question - what clubs did Nicklaus win with...I said I had no interest in Nicklaus but his putter in '86 was a MacGregor Response. 😂 I did just try again....so who knows. 

Edited February 10 by bcstones

[Jiggered]

16 hours ago, bcstones said:

only problem is you have to join the Persommon Golf Society on that facebook thingy to view anything...I did try some time ago to join, but evidently torked off the administrator on the last question - what clubs did Nicklaus win with...I said I had no interest in Nicklaus but his putter in '86 was a MacGregor Response. 😂 I did just try again....so who knows. 

 

I'd like to think that Dave Wood wouldn't mind me posting the pics here, so see below before and after pictures of one of the woods he restored.

 

[bcstones]

45 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

I'd like to think that Dave Wood wouldn't mind me posting the pics here, so see below before and after pictures of one of the woods he restored.

 

Thanks....it's are absolutefuly beautiful (I am guessing this is a before & after pics)....

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

17 hours ago, bcstones said:

only problem is you have to join the Persommon Golf Society on that facebook thingy to view anything...I did try some time ago to join, but evidently torked off the administrator on the last question - what clubs did Nicklaus win with...I said I had no interest in Nicklaus but his putter in '86 was a MacGregor Response. 😂 I did just try again....so who knows. 

As Admin (one of 6 on those pages) I can tell you that we have a humungous number of clowns/bad actors trying to get on so we have to set a bar. Facebook is home and a happy hunting ground for criminals and with 3000+ members you can see why our pages are attractive to them.

We also get a lot of people who think it beneath them to check the box asking them to abide by our rules.

If you don't know something I'm sure I don't have to remind you Google is your friend.

If you take the mickey then anybody, not just us, is going to take a less than favourable view.

Edited February 11 by The Aspidistra in the Hall

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

As Admin (one of 6 on those pages) I can tell you that we have a humungous number of clowns/bad actors trying to get on so we have to set a bar. Facebook is home and a happy hunting ground for criminals and with 3000+ members you can see why our pages are attractive to them.

We also get a lot of people who think it beneath them to check the box asking them to abide by our rules.

If you don't know something I'm sure I don't have to remind you Google is your friend.

If you take the mickey then anybody, not just us, is going to take a less than favourable view.

I wasn't trying to be funny or a clown...I was being honest. So what if I have no interest in Jack Nicklaus, I'm sure that there is far more info on clubs & Players on the PGS fb pages....just like here - to me an 8802 is just another flanged putter (heresy to some), but I do read the thread. I also have a very low patience threshold for silly questions. If I could have, I would have not answered that question however I was not given that option. Whoever took issue w/my Nicklaus answer, could have pm'd me & told me that they took umbrage - I would have apologized for causing them discomfort, however it wouldn't have changed what I said at all, it would just have shown a wee bit of respect.

I'm perfectly aware of fb, and google isn't far behind...they are both about data mining & selling to the highest bidder...and they always have been. The only google thing I have is the email....and the only reason I still have a fb account is cuz my Family/Clan is there & they are active.

btw..what does that last sentence mean - "If you take the mickey then anybody, not just us, is going to take a less than favourable view."  I have no idea what you're talking about - the only "mickey" I know is either knockout drops, a wee Mouse or not so nice slang for the Irish

just checked fb - I was admitted to the PGS site. Lots of fantastic info....and knowledge.

Edited February 11 by bcstones
update on PGS

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

1 hour ago, bcstones said:

I wasn't trying to be funny or a clown...I was being honest. So what if I have no interest in Jack Nicklaus, I'm sure that there is far more info on clubs & Players on the PGS fb pages....just like here - to me an 8802 is just another flanged putter (heresy to some), but I do read the thread. I also have a very low patience threshold for silly questions. If I could have, I would have not answered that question however I was not given that option. Whoever took issue w/my Nicklaus answer, could have pm'd me & told me that they took umbrage - I would have apologized for causing them discomfort, however it wouldn't have changed what I said at all, it would just have shown a wee bit of respect.

I'm perfectly aware of fb, and google isn't far behind...they are both about data mining & selling to the highest bidder...and they always have been. The only google thing I have is the email....and the only reason I still have a fb account is cuz my Family/Clan is there & they are active.

btw..what does that last sentence mean - "If you take the mickey then anybody, not just us, is going to take a less than favourable view."  I have no idea what you're talking about - the only "mickey" I know is either knockout drops, a wee Mouse or not so nice slang for the Irish

just checked fb - I was admitted to the PGS site. Lots of fantastic info....and knowledge.

fwiw I was not suggesting you were trying to be a clown, I was saying we have to find ways of weeding out the idiots and less well intentioned, and the laughing with tears emoji you used suggested you were trying to be funny.

 

The coloquial, 'taking the mickey' I have always used and understood it to be a trans-atlantic expression meaning to take the rise out of someone. We know a 'Mickey-Finn' as knock-out drops and the term for the Irish comes from the Gaelic 'Mhic', a version of the Scottish 'Mac or Mc' meaning 'son of', thus not used in a derogatory way over here. Being part Irish on both sides of the family, as are many of my countrymen, I am sensitive to these things.

We appear to be divided by a common language as Winnie once said.

[bcstones]

46 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

the laughing with tears emoji you used suggested you were trying to be funny.

The "laughing with tears emoji" was not meant to be funny - it was my laughing at the persnicketness, narrow-mindness, the fragility of ego of that administrator. I'm an old coot, got no time for such silliness - if it weren't for a few people here who spoke well of that fb-group, I'd not have bothered applying again yesterday. I'm glad I did, there's alot to learn & alot of professionalism in the site.

Yeah, understood about Irish on both sides...over here, where the Irish immigrants were looked down on as second class citizens far too often, it does has a taint of derogatoriness - tho, I did not take your comment that way, I now know...thank you.

Oh, what does "take the rise out of someone" mean...(another expression I've not come across - ain't language fun)

 

 

46 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

We appear to be divided by a common language as Winnie once said.

 Winnie the Pooh said that....or was it Piglet?

Edited February 11 by bcstones