Mizuno isn't JDM?

[golfnutjp]

[quote name='xxio' timestamp='1418372913' post='10582237']
So since Epon no longer distinguishes and has distributors/retailers everywhere Epon is not JDM? Maybe they should have different lines as well like Mizuno and Miura.
[/quote]

Endo have 3company in Thailand. They have JDM products and nNON -JDM products. You must see price .. This is eazy to judge JDM. Endo never over price if they are Thailand products.


ENDO THAI CO.,LTD.
ENDO STAINLESS STEEL（THAILAND）CO.,LTD.
ENDO FORGING（THAILAND） CO.,LTD.

Endo have main facility in Niigata, Japan.
Proto type and Expensive products were produced in Japan.

Their main business is Automoble industry relating to Stainless steel, and large spring with forging technology. City of Sanjo ,Niigata have Honma Golf factory.
And historicaly educated Iron forged technology since 1661. A lot of Blacksmith gatherd this city.

Just for your info.

The iron for Tiger Wood in 1994, was from Titleist Co, But All head for this projects were prototype from Endo.
I have 3 of 50, 5 of 50set.

[golfnutjp]

[quote name='xxio' timestamp='1418373135' post='10582243']
Sorry but I think machines are better, it is the level of quality of machine production that may be issues. Just as you pay more for the more experienced Japanese craftsmen, you should expect to pay more when Bettinardi uses a $600k machine versus the $350k machine that everyone else uses.
[/quote]

I agree that Craft man cannot produce products without machine. I am talking about human controlling machine and make decision of final products.
I am engineer experience in industry for USA Mil Spec. When I order for Punching die, Plastic molding die, no one from USA machine shop accept to guarantee tolerance except Japanese machine shop. because our requirement for Die +0.0inch ,-0.0005Inches. Machine cannot control this tolerance without craftman.
Humans hand and concentration and skill are incredible. Recently all golf ball's dimple have improved as seamless, and no more cup line on balls. These improvement could not achieved without Japanese craftsmanship. They are crazy..

How ever, Craftman are not rich people even they are only person made i-phone body . this is the reason Steve Job's success.

I am very good friend of Bob Bettinardi... HI Bob!!

[xxio]

I was addressing the proposition that JDM are products exclusively for Japan regardless of where they were made. So I mentioned Epon because they don't have separate Japan only products and they have distributorships in different countries.

[Nessism]

[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418373334' post='10582247']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1418220119' post='10571723']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418204674' post='10571373']
MX-23 Iron head are Forging but it was 3piease assembly with welding plus Grind process. And production workers are not certified handcraft man.
[/quote]

I believe this is incorrect. MX-23 is a one piece forging. Forged in Japan.

Honestly, I'm okay with you guys that say mass produced Mizuno's aren't JDM. What is and what isn't JDM is obviously defined by the people using the term (including me), and my eye's are open now. It's not an exact science. I do find it ironic that [size=4]JDM aficionados seem perfectly okay with Endo forged in Thailand, but the mere suggestion of a Chinese head being worthy of being called JDM will draw snears. Where are all these JDM driver heads being made? China would be my guess but I'm not sure.[/size]

[size=4]Oh, and regarding forging, [/size]despite[size=4] the romance many [/size]associate[size=4] with the process it's actually quite [/size]rudimentary[size=4]. 1000 year old [/size]samurai sword[size=4] tradition [/size]notwithstanding[size=4]. [/size]
[/quote]


MX 23 was assembled with 3 piece of Neck, and Body and Sole to manage Cavity Back. That I head forom mizuno Engineer, So I am just informoing what I was explained.
All 3piece material were forged in separately and

As [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/183106-forged4ever/"][color=#353535]Forged4ever[/color][/url] said.

"""And FWIW, the 23 was a one-piece grain flow forged head design from 1035 mild carbon steel, and then the pocket was milled to create the low COG and a wider hitting area, as Nessism stated.

Have a nice day ""

His comment shows proof of 3piece assembly.. because Pocket milling cannot be done without welding.. Milling machine Blade cannot cut the pocket with out space for round blade.
They milled pocket first , then They weld sole potion.
[/quote]

Mizuno has been making one piece iron heads with a milled pocket for many years now. MP54 is the most current model. From the Mizuno Golf website...
[list]
[*][i][b]Grain Flow Forged: From a single 1025E Pure Select mild carbon steel billet.[/b][/i]
[/list]

[Vegaman]

[quote name='xxio' timestamp='1418387949' post='10582537']
I was addressing the proposition that JDM are products exclusively for Japan regardless of where they were made. So I mentioned Epon because they don't have separate Japan only products and they have distributorships in different countries.
[/quote]

Yes, Epon is not JDM. Not anymore

[Vegaman]

JDM can be, and is, produced anywhere. Including China of course. This is especially true of woods, China made is common. Has got exactly NOTHING to do with a product being JDM or not. The "M" stands for Market and not Made like some people seem to think.

[xxio]

[quote name='Vegaman' timestamp='1418389002' post='10582577']
[quote name='xxio' timestamp='1418387949' post='10582537']
I was addressing the proposition that JDM are products exclusively for Japan regardless of where they were made. So I mentioned Epon because they don't have separate Japan only products and they have distributorships in different countries.
[/quote]

Yes, Epon is not JDM. Not anymore
[/quote]

Thank you for the clarification. In that case the bigger a company gets the more it will be tougher to stay JDM. Fourteen, I guess is an example of being a victim of it's own success. The demand outside of Japan grew because of success in Japan. They got their product out there. Now by that standard they are no longer JDM. Of course that could be a contributing factor why their products are longer all made in Japan.

[xxio]

Btw I heard the term JDM for cars as early as 1990-1992 when Civics started popping up locally. I heard it for golf clubs maybe 2000-2002.

It is not a golf equipment only term and did not originate in golf equipment unless the golf equipment industry in Japan overshadows the car and aftermarket car parts industry in Japan.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418373334' post='10582247']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1418220119' post='10571723']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418204674' post='10571373']
MX-23 Iron head are Forging but it was 3piease assembly with welding plus Grind process. And production workers are not certified handcraft man.
[/quote]

I believe this is incorrect. MX-23 is a one piece forging. Forged in Japan.

Honestly, I'm okay with you guys that say mass produced Mizuno's aren't JDM. What is and what isn't JDM is obviously defined by the people using the term (including me), and my eye's are open now. It's not an exact science. I do find it ironic that JDM aficionados seem perfectly okay with Endo forged in Thailand, but the mere suggestion of a Chinese head being worthy of being called JDM will draw snears. Where are all these JDM driver heads being made? China would be my guess but I'm not sure.

Oh, and regarding forging, despite the romance many associate with the process it's actually quite rudimentary. 1000 year old samurai sword tradition notwithstanding.
[/quote]


MX 23 was assembled with 3 piece of Neck, and Body and Sole to manage Cavity Back. That I head forom mizuno Engineer, So I am just informoing what I was explained.
All 3piece material were forged in separately and

As [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/183106-forged4ever/"][color=#353535]Forged4ever[/color][/url] said.

"""And FWIW, the 23 was a one-piece grain flow forged head design from 1035 mild carbon steel, and then the pocket was milled to create the low COG and a wider hitting area, as Nessism stated.

Have a nice day ""

His comment shows proof of 3piece assembly.. because Pocket milling cannot be done without welding.. Milling machine Blade cannot cut the pocket with out space for round blade.
They milled pocket first , then They weld sole potion.
[/quote]

wouldnt the pocket have been precision routed using something like an nc router and therefore possible to create this pocket cavity iron from a single piece?

[golfnutjp]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1418397157' post='10583137']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418373334' post='10582247']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1418220119' post='10571723']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418204674' post='10571373']
MX-23 Iron head are Forging but it was 3piease assembly with welding plus Grind process. And production workers are not certified handcraft man.
[/quote]

I believe this is incorrect. MX-23 is a one piece forging. Forged in Japan.

Honestly, I'm okay with you guys that say mass produced Mizuno's aren't JDM. What is and what isn't JDM is obviously defined by the people using the term (including me), and my eye's are open now. It's not an exact science. I do find it ironic that JDM aficionados seem perfectly okay with Endo forged in Thailand, but the mere suggestion of a Chinese head being worthy of being called JDM will draw snears. Where are all these JDM driver heads being made? China would be my guess but I'm not sure.

Oh, and regarding forging, despite the romance many associate with the process it's actually quite rudimentary. 1000 year old samurai sword tradition notwithstanding.
[/quote]


MX 23 was assembled with 3 piece of Neck, and Body and Sole to manage Cavity Back. That I head forom mizuno Engineer, So I am just informoing what I was explained.
All 3piece material were forged in separately and

As [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/183106-forged4ever/"][color=#353535]Forged4ever[/color][/url] said.

"""And FWIW, the 23 was a one-piece grain flow forged head design from 1035 mild carbon steel, and then the pocket was milled to create the low COG and a wider hitting area, as Nessism stated.

Have a nice day ""

His comment shows proof of 3piece assembly.. because Pocket milling cannot be done without welding.. Milling machine Blade cannot cut the pocket with out space for round blade.
They milled pocket first , then They weld sole potion.
[/quote]

wouldnt the pocket have been precision routed using something like an nc router and therefore possible to create this pocket cavity iron from a single piece?
[/quote]

HI.
These are video showing forging process by mizuno golf. I uploaded 2010.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vugGpqaoS4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vugGpqaoS4[/url]

This is Science channel from City of Ichikawa.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bomSk1bSuDs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bomSk1bSuDs[/url] This shows CNC milling machine , however they can mill only vertically because Machine capability against Iron head hardness.
Easily you can tell the process whethere forging cavity or CNC milled cavity.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvjyLEPy2yw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvjyLEPy2yw[/url]
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ_qhGGKGcQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ_qhGGKGcQ[/url]

[dunn]

Pretty soon mizuno and miura will be only clubs made in japan....everyone else is moving to China and thailand......kinda funny...mizuno is one the few Co to be japan based, japan manufactured, and sold in japan but isn't considered a Japanese club, lol......it's not complicated, people make it complicated!.....

JDM doesn't exist anymore.....partly because forgings have moved out of japan and partly because Internet has shattered any isolated market.....I can buy any set I want with the click of a mouse...

[T.Beau]

[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1418411767' post='10584245']
Pretty soon mizuno and miura will be only clubs made in japan....everyone else is moving to China and thailand......kinda funny...mizuno is one the few Co to be japan based, japan manufactured, and sold in japan but isn't considered a Japanese club, lol......it's not complicated, people make it complicated!.....

JDM doesn't exist anymore.....partly because forgings have moved out of japan and partly because Internet has shattered any isolated market.....I can buy any set I want with the click of a mouse...
[/quote]

yep..global village and all that abba dabba....all the lines have been blurred for several years now in manufacturing/distributuon...and JDM as far as golf equipment goes is just a perpetuated name to glamorize/embellish/lots of other terms

[Bad9]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1418412931' post='10584389']
[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1418411767' post='10584245']
Pretty soon mizuno and miura will be only clubs made in japan....everyone else is moving to China and thailand......kinda funny...mizuno is one the few Co to be japan based, japan manufactured, and sold in japan but isn't considered a Japanese club, lol......it's not complicated, people make it complicated!.....

JDM doesn't exist anymore.....partly because forgings have moved out of japan and partly because Internet has shattered any isolated market.....I can buy any set I want with the click of a mouse...
[/quote]

yep..global village and all that abba dabba....all the lines have been blurred for several years now in manufacturing/distributuon...and JDM as far as golf equipment goes is just a perpetuated name to glamorize/embellish/lots of other terms
[/quote]

And don't forget add lots of $

[golfnutjp]

[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1418411767' post='10584245']
Pretty soon mizuno and miura will be only clubs made in japan....everyone else is moving to China and thailand......kinda funny...mizuno is one the few Co to be japan based, japan manufactured, and sold in japan but isn't considered a Japanese club, lol......it's not complicated, people make it complicated!.....

JDM doesn't exist anymore.....partly because forgings have moved out of japan and partly because Internet has shattered any isolated market.....I can buy any set I want with the click of a mouse...
[/quote]

I do not think so.
The all of manufacture will stay in Japan untill the craftman quick Job. Now Young genaration are taking over.
They are facing problems and difficulty to chnage philosophy and culture at south Asia.
So They still keep technology in Japan, and only Mass prodution products for volume were transited to foreign company today.

All OEM products and distribution were sifted to the world, however Key customer in Japanese users will not take them.
This is the difficult situation to Japan. Honesty Nation's culture in Japan exit high prices, and it is their culture.

I am americanized Japanese but, I live both country now.

They make and stay with small JDM products only for Japan, ( Example: after market Shaft like Graphite Design,and Fujikura, Tour department)

[golfnutjp]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1418397157' post='10583137']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418373334' post='10582247']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1418220119' post='10571723']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418204674' post='10571373']
MX-23 Iron head are Forging but it was 3piease assembly with welding plus Grind process. And production workers are not certified handcraft man.
[/quote]

I believe this is incorrect. MX-23 is a one piece forging. Forged in Japan.

Honestly, I'm okay with you guys that say mass produced Mizuno's aren't JDM. What is and what isn't JDM is obviously defined by the people using the term (including me), and my eye's are open now. It's not an exact science. I do find it ironic that JDM aficionados seem perfectly okay with Endo forged in Thailand, but the mere suggestion of a Chinese head being worthy of being called JDM will draw snears. Where are all these JDM driver heads being made? China would be my guess but I'm not sure.

Oh, and regarding forging, despite the romance many associate with the process it's actually quite rudimentary. 1000 year old samurai sword tradition notwithstanding.
[/quote]


MX 23 was assembled with 3 piece of Neck, and Body and Sole to manage Cavity Back. That I head forom mizuno Engineer, So I am just informoing what I was explained.
All 3piece material were forged in separately and

As [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/183106-forged4ever/"][color=#353535]Forged4ever[/color][/url] said.

"""And FWIW, the 23 was a one-piece grain flow forged head design from 1035 mild carbon steel, and then the pocket was milled to create the low COG and a wider hitting area, as Nessism stated.

Have a nice day ""

His comment shows proof of 3piece assembly.. because Pocket milling cannot be done without welding.. Milling machine Blade cannot cut the pocket with out space for round blade.
They milled pocket first , then They weld sole potion.
[/quote]

wouldnt the pocket have been precision routed using something like an nc router and therefore possible to create this pocket cavity iron from a single piece?
[/quote]

MX23 Pictures show Cross section,
[url="http://videos.golfwrx.com/search?search_query=MX23&search_type=photos"]http://videos.golfwrx.com/search?search_query=MX23&search_type=photos[/url]

[xxio]

Golfnut

People have put forth their definition of JDM, that is what this thread about.

We thank you for the production insights.

So in your opinion what is JDM?

It is implied by your posts, JDM products are those made by Japanese craftsmen.

Personally I agree with the proposition that JDM are products exclusively for the Japanese markets, but if later on the specific model becomes market internstionally it still stays JDM.

This is a very exclusive view and narrows down choices.

Very few complete lines: TM Gliore, Callaway Legacy

There are still big brands: PRGR

There are big OEMs with niche products: Srixon 945


I feel manufacturing by Japanese companies are still a bit better than US but that gap continues to get smaller as technology allows for less mistakes in mass production.


My irons are JDM: Tourstage irons circa 2010 (my second set of these irons).

My Bettinardi wedges have their origins in Japan.

I prefer a ball that was available only in Japan for 2 years before it was internationally: Srixon Zstar

I am a fan of Japanese products but again the gap is closing, the only reason why USDM products still have issues is the US OEM is not willing to pay the Chinese foundries the money to produce the same quality as what is being produced by Japanese Companies.

[golfnutjp]

[quote name='xxio' timestamp='1418426572' post='10585533']
Golfnut

People have put forth their definition of JDM, that is what this thread about.

We thank you for the production insights.

So in your opinion what is JDM?

It is implied by your posts, JDM products are those made by Japanese craftsmen.

Personally I agree with the proposition that JDM are products exclusively for the Japanese markets, but if later on the specific model becomes market internstionally it still stays JDM.

This is a very exclusive view and narrows down choices.

Very few complete lines: TM Gliore, Callaway Legacy

There are still big brands: PRGR

There are big OEMs with niche products: Srixon 945


I feel manufacturing by Japanese companies are still a bit better than US but that gap continues to get smaller as technology allows for less mistakes in mass production.


My irons are JDM: Tourstage irons circa 2010 (my second set of these irons).

My Bettinardi wedges have their origins in Japan.

I prefer a ball that was available only in Japan for 2 years before it was internationally: Srixon Zstar

I am a fan of Japanese products but again the gap is closing, the only reason why USDM products still have issues is the US OEM is not willing to pay the Chinese foundries the money to produce the same quality as what is being produced by Japanese Companies.
[/quote]

Hi. Follows are my last comment for JDM.
I am very new to this forum. so I would like to ask same question to all .
I work for 36years in Golf business. This is long enough to speak out.
I sell Japanese golf clubs in Japan, I sell USA golf clubs in USA. I have golf store in Japan, and I have store in USA.
That is the why I would like to know about " What is JDM". ( I do not know what all people talking about.)
USA, Japan both are my domestic items.



[b]XXIO So I would like to ask you. what is JDM for you ? If you pick up categorie whic I listed bottom.[/b]


I think the criteria of JDM must be specified. Actually The word of JDM is very new to me( maybe 10 years since I heard in Golf Industry.) And I think that JDM came from this web sites in golfers community.

I feel we must specify JDM GOLF with category.

Parts Categoriy #1:Golf Clubs Head finished in japan for International Market.using Japanese material by Certified Craft man.( MIzuno MP series)
Parts Categoriy #2:Golf Clubs Head finished in japan for International Market.using Japanese material by mass production. ( Mizuno MX series)
Parts Categoriy #3:Golf Clubs Head finished in japan for Japanese Market only. using Japanese material by Certified Craft man.(Miura, Kururi, Takei,
Parts Category #4: Golf Clubs Head finishedJapan for Japanese Market only. using Japanese material by mass production. (Big company like Tourstage, Dunlop Japan)
Parts Category #5: Golf Clubs Head finished in Japan for Japanese Market only. using OEM parts( Taiwan, China by mass production. ( Taylormade Japan, Callaway Japan,)

So Mizuno MP series belong to #1 categories.

The most of big company do not have Iron head forging manufacture except Mizuno Golf. The most of forging manufacture are located Ichikawa City, Kobe.
They are the vendor for all of Golf manufacture such as Dunlop, Bridgestone, and PGA Tour Items for custom from USA.
All of Tiger Woods irons were manufactured in Japan with Titleist, Nike brands Name.( Desiged by Them)

[url="http://www.fairwaygolfusa.com/japan/index.html?language=ja"]http://www.fairwaygolfusa.com/japan/index.html?language=ja[/url]

They have all the most of Japanese Domestic Items from Japan.

[Nessism]

HI.

These are video showing forging process by mizuno golf. I uploaded 2010.

 

 

 

 

Nice video. Same video that's posted on the Mizuno website. Good stuff.

 

This video (from Mizuno) flashed some images of the MX-23 forging. Please note: the head is one piece. NOT 3 piece as you suggested earlier in this thread. It's a simple matter to mill the pocket in the back cavity after the head is formed in ONE piece. Just to be clear, MX-23 is ONE piece. NOT three (3), ONE piece. Ha ha. :bigwhack:

 

[xxio]

I had read that post. So for you all subcategories are JDM? That basically means anything that has Japanese on it either by way of design, manufacturing, or being a Japanese company makes it JDM?

[bladehunter]

[quote name='apprenti23' timestamp='1417995389' post='10559159']
They ship from and are built in Georgia, to much chagrin, Not necessarily Asia... I wouldn't classify them as JDM.

Who cares though? If you can't consistently find the center of the face, does it really matter where your clubs are made?
[/quote]

which Georgia? if the one down here then definitely not part of asia .. .


If the other then I think its a border state ...not sure if its Europe or Asia

[2putttom]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1418388871' post='10582567']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418373334' post='10582247']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1418220119' post='10571723']
[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418204674' post='10571373']
MX-23 Iron head are Forging but it was 3piease assembly with welding plus Grind process. And production workers are not certified handcraft man.
[/quote]

I believe this is incorrect. MX-23 is a one piece forging. Forged in Japan.

Honestly, I'm okay with you guys that say mass produced Mizuno's aren't JDM. What is and what isn't JDM is obviously defined by the people using the term (including me), and my eye's are open now. It's not an exact science. I do find it ironic that [size=4]JDM aficionados seem perfectly okay with Endo forged in Thailand, but the mere suggestion of a Chinese head being worthy of being called JDM will draw snears. Where are all these JDM driver heads being made? China would be my guess but I'm not sure.[/size]

[size=4]Oh, and regarding forging, [/size]despite[size=4] the romance many [/size]associate[size=4] with the process it's actually quite [/size]rudimentary[size=4]. 1000 year old [/size]samurai sword[size=4] tradition [/size]notwithstanding[size=4]. [/size]
[/quote]


MX 23 was assembled with 3 piece of Neck, and Body and Sole to manage Cavity Back. That I head forom mizuno Engineer, So I am just informoing what I was explained.
All 3piece material were forged in separately and

As [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/user/183106-forged4ever/"][color=#353535]Forged4ever[/color][/url] said.

"""And FWIW, the 23 was a one-piece grain flow forged head design from 1035 mild carbon steel, and then the pocket was milled to create the low COG and a wider hitting area, as Nessism stated.

Have a nice day ""

His comment shows proof of 3piece assembly.. because Pocket milling cannot be done without welding.. Milling machine Blade cannot cut the pocket with out space for round blade.
They milled pocket first , then They weld sole potion.
[/quote]

Mizuno has been making one piece iron heads with a milled pocket for many years now. MP54 is the most current model. From the Mizuno Golf website...[list]
[*][i][b]Grain Flow Forged: From a single 1025E Pure Select mild carbon steel billet.[/b][/i]
[/list]
[/quote]
I say old chap.,. What is 1025E pure select mild carbon steel?

[Nessism]

[quote name='2putttom' timestamp='1418437712' post='10586345']
I say old chap.,. What is 1025E pure select mild carbon steel?
[/quote]

Basically, it's just common mild steel. Mizuno slaps this "pure select" nomenclature on it to make people think it's something special. I do believe it may have a smig less impurities in it, but the difference is minor at best compared to the steel everyone else is using.

[golfnutjp]

HI.

These are video showing forging process by mizuno golf. I uploaded 2010.

 

 

 

 

Nice video. Same video that's posted on the Mizuno website. Good stuff.

 

This video (from Mizuno) flashed some images of the MX-23 forging. Please note: the head is one piece. NOT 3 piece as you suggested earlier in this thread. It's a simple matter to mill the pocket in the back cavity after the head is formed in ONE piece. Just to be clear, MX-23 is ONE piece. NOT three (3), ONE piece. Ha ha. :bigwhack:

 

 

 

Did you see ,or can you see picture ?

 

http://videos.golfwr...rch_type=photos

 

Only 3D printer and Casting methods can make this shape of products.

if They use 4~5inch DIA Grinders Blade, They cut top cavity edge wall. This was explanation in 2002 from Mizuno.

But I am now not sure about my memorie now.

I will find out next Monday to confirm my memoriy with Mizuno Japan.

 

Regards.

[Shambles]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1418439532' post='10586451']
[quote name='2putttom' timestamp='1418437712' post='10586345']
I say old chap.,. What is 1025E pure select mild carbon steel?
[/quote]

Basically, it's just common mild steel. Mizuno slaps this "pure select" nomenclature on it to make people think it's something special. I do believe it may have a smig less impurities in it, but the difference is minor at best compared to the steel everyone else is using.
[/quote]

I understand the term 1025 to be one used by the Japanese industry to classify different grades of steel on the basis of purity and hardness. Where golf clubs are concerned, according to a post made in TSG, players in general are unable to distinguish the difference in hardness between 1025 and 1020 or 1010, which is apparently not available in Japan because the impurities are too high. I surmised that the difference in purity is the more important and for manufacturing purposes only. In the forging process, hammering removes some of the impurities for whatever benefits that may serve the final product. In my opinion, Golf irons have generous tolerance as to the purity of the steel, as evidenced by some clubs surviving reasonably intact and probably playable from as long ago as the earliest days of golf.



Shambles

[Nessism]

[quote name='golfnutjp' timestamp='1418441939' post='10586589']
Only 3D printer and Casting methods can make this shape of products.
if They use 4~5inch DIA Grinders Blade, They cut top cavity edge wall. This was explanation in 2002 from Mizuno.
But I am now not sure about my memorie now.
I will find out next Monday to confirm my memoriy with Mizuno Japan.

Regards.
[/quote]

Machining the cavity is no big deal. You are overstating the complexity.

[Vegaman]

[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1418411767' post='10584245']
Pretty soon mizuno and miura will be only clubs made in japan....everyone else is moving to China and thailand......kinda funny...mizuno is one the few Co to be japan based, japan manufactured, and sold in japan but isn't considered a Japanese club, lol......it's not complicated, people make it complicated!.....

JDM doesn't exist anymore.....partly because forgings have moved out of japan and partly because Internet has shattered any isolated market.....I can buy any set I want with the click of a mouse...
[/quote]


Because Mizuno sells their clubs everywhere. Except for their JDM line, the Craft series, which they sell only in Japan. What is so hard to understand?
WHERE something is made means nothing it is in which MARKET the club (or car, watch, shoes or whatever) is sold that matters. JDM = Japan. Domestic. MARKET!

Also, your internet reference doesn't really add up. You get no warranties, cant touch or much less try something out, can't contact "customer service".
Because you have no official distribution/representation in the US.

[Vegaman]

[quote name='Bad9' timestamp='1418413039' post='10584407']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1418412931' post='10584389']
[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1418411767' post='10584245']
Pretty soon mizuno and miura will be only clubs made in japan....everyone else is moving to China and thailand......kinda funny...mizuno is one the few Co to be japan based, japan manufactured, and sold in japan but isn't considered a Japanese club, lol......it's not complicated, people make it complicated!.....

JDM doesn't exist anymore.....partly because forgings have moved out of japan and partly because Internet has shattered any isolated market.....I can buy any set I want with the click of a mouse...
[/quote]

yep..global village and all that abba dabba....all the lines have been blurred for several years now in manufacturing/distributuon...and JDM as far as golf equipment goes is just a perpetuated name to glamorize/embellish/lots of other terms
[/quote]

And don't forget add lots of $
[/quote]

So can you go down to Golf Galaxy and hit TM Gloire clubs, Callaway Legacy and Legacy black clubs or Titleist VG3 clubs? No, you can't. No glamourisation, just facts.

[Vegaman]

JDM is a very old expression, been used for various products (cars, watches, HiFi, shoes etc etc) for decades.
It means a product designed for, and sold in, the Japanese market exclusively. There are TONS of stuff made especially for the Japanese market. Special KitKat bars (yes!), limited edition Japan Only jeans (Levi's and others), sneakers and shoes (this is HUGE they have so many sneaker models that is Japan Only) and so on. Everybody that walks into a large golf shop in Japan will encounter maybe a dozen brands they have never heard of being sold next to the familiar brands. The choice when it comes to bags, gloves, headcovers and other accessories that is Japan Only makes the stores we have in Europe or the US seem barren. The JDM market is VERY much alive and well. Anybody saying otherwise is just clueless or jealous. Thinking that everything good must be available in the US.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Jamboy72' timestamp='1418051712' post='10561723']
[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1417995623' post='10559179']
[quote name='Jamboy72' timestamp='1417993518' post='10559007']
Those who adhere to the idea that JDM is somehow superior to USDM, don't generally like JDM being lumped in with anything that is also sold abroad in a mass market type of approach - I guess this is where I generally ask" What difference does it make?" - And when that pandora's box is opened, we typically get way off topic...
[/quote]

We get it already. You're beating a dead horse. You hate JDM and people that prefer JDM clubs.
[/quote]

Easy there Tiger...I have no issue with JDM or people who prefer JDM products...My "issue" if that's how you want to term it is with the idea/concept there is something inherently superior about clubs made specifically for the Japanese market - In point of fact, I love the premise that people can buy whatever they want for whatever reason they want...but that doesn't mean they aren't opening themselves up for criticism when they state patently ridiculous things...namely that JDM is superior to USDM...
[/quote]I do not understand what the real issue here is. I do know that to some of us a Japanese forging has the right feel. The Japanese have some way of special forging the steel that gives it the "feel". To really put it in perspective I would say that JDM means a Japanese owned company that forges their heads in Japan and sells them everywhere but the company is still a Japanese owned company

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Vegaman' timestamp='1418460227' post='10587177']
JDM is a very old expression, been used for various products (cars, watches, HiFi, shoes etc etc) for decades.
It means a product designed for, and sold in, the Japanese market exclusively. There are TONS of stuff made especially for the Japanese market. Special KitKat bars (yes!), limited edition Japan Only jeans (Levi's and others), sneakers and shoes (this is HUGE they have so many sneaker models that is Japan Only) and so on. Everybody that walks into a large golf shop in Japan will encounter maybe a dozen brands they have never heard of being sold next to the familiar brands. The choice when it comes to bags, gloves, headcovers and other accessories that is Japan Only makes the stores we have in Europe or the US seem barren. The JDM market is VERY much alive and well. Anybody saying otherwise is just clueless or jealous. Thinking that everything good must be available in the US.
[/quote]Go on E-Bay they have a lot of nice Japanese issue only tour bags and stuff for sale. Really some exotic colorful stuff too expensive for my wallet but still cool colorful stuff