Jordan Speith - Weak Era

[dieselmd]

It's the final match of the Ryder Cup with the tie in a balance, last game out. Who on the U.S. team do you want as anchor?

[SunDevil009]

List of active players with at least 2 majors:

Tiger Woods - 14
Phil Mickelson - 5
Ernie Els - 4
Rory Mcilroy - 4
Padraig Harrington - 3
Jordan Spieth - 2
Martin Kaymer - 2
Bubba Watson - 2
Zach Johnson - 2

Weak Era my a**...

[Krt22]

Oh come on, Tiger barely counts these days

[ebk]

This topic reminds me of a quote from Tim McCarver, when he was a catcher for the St. Louis Cardinals, speaking about Bob Gibson (if you're too young to know Gibson, Google him): McCarver said Gibson was the luckiest pitcher in baseball because every time he faced an opposing team, that team was in a slump. I think he said it around 1968, which was the year Gibson's ERA was 1.12 for the season.

[knock it close]

I'm sure this was mentioned but Jordan went out and tied the 72 hole record at Augusta to win. So take that for what its worth I guess.

[Wknd_Warrior]

gee wiz, he must have got lucky with the weather...

[chip22]

Spieth has birdied about 33% of the holes he's played in 2015 majors (drops mic)

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='chip22' timestamp='1437527917' post='11996046']
Spieth has birdied about 33% of the holes he's played in 2015 majors (drops mic)
[/quote]

Ayyyy!

I just dropped the mic over there.

[dlygrisse]

Well now that we have determined that this is a weak era and that Spieth is an overrated short knocker I just wanted to remind everyone he is only 21 years old. So he might get better.

[MaccaRayDudley]

Mentally very strong. No weaknesses and an incredible putter. No accident that he's winning these tournaments.

[hwc1954]

[quote name='dieselmd' timestamp='1437525521' post='11995784']
It's the final match of the Ryder Cup with the tie in a balance, last game out. Who on the U.S. team do you want as anchor?
[/quote]

Jordan Spieth is clearly the top US player, so he would be the choice in the anchor match.

BTW, he passed Rory in ranking points this week, but is still behind in the ranking, which is average points per tourney. His total points are divided by five more tourneys.

[hbgpagolfpro]

I call BS to the OP. This is the BEGINNING of an era of a generation of young guns that will take this game to another level. They all can thank Tiger, and so can we.

I would argue that the last great era ended about 30 years go with Jack's last win at Augusta. In that tournament he beat a number of Hall of Famers that dominated the game from the early 1960's to the mid-1980's, starting with Palmer and ending with Seve. Norman dominated from the mid-1980's to 1996, when Tiger arrived. Tiger showed how a young kid could dominate a talent pool that was not very strong. Norman and Faldo were past their prime, and Tiger filled the void. His only challengers were Mickelson, Els and Singh. I wouldn't lump Furyk in that group whatsoever.

This new era, starting with McIlroy, is showing that they are ready to go to the next level. Just look at what the amateurs did this week. Look at what McIlroy has shown us already in his still young career, and now Spieth. Now we have other strong young players such as Fowler, Patrick Reed and others who are not afraid to go out and win.

Now, to view Spieth's accomplishments as the result of a weak era because he doesn't hit the ball 350 yards is just ridiculous. Did Trevino hit it as far as Nicklaus on his way to six majors? How about the diminutive Player on his way to nine? What about Billy Casper on his way to 50 plus tour wins and three majors?

No, length has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with what is between the ears. Spieth has IT, Dustin Johnson does not, just as Fred Couples did not. But, there are a lot of these super talented players out there that can still win due to this talent alone. That will continue to make it challenging for the young guns to dominate.

No, I think we are at the beginning of an extraordinary era and I look forward to watching it unfold.

[nochct1]

[quote name='Gem' timestamp='1437471826' post='11990774']
[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1437471441' post='11990764']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1437471045' post='11990756']
Phil Mickelson? VJ Singh? Ernie Els? and a very strong chasing pack several of which still compete today.
[/quote]

I would not say they were strong as they were (mostly) just chasing TW...

How on earth can you really compare one 15 year time span to another when some people overlap eras and some only peak shortly/early/late/never?
[/quote]

A strong era is when other guys can win against each other under the utmost pressure. Mickleson, Els and others did not have the balls to do this and noone else did either, that is why I say Tiger's era was particularly weak in comparison to other ones. Look at the time when you had Jack, Arnie, Player, Snead, Watson, etc. All could win down the stretch.
[/quote]

When did Watson beat Arnie down the stretch? When did he even compete with him down the stretch?

Tom Watson is 20 years younger than Arnold Palmer. 20 years. And Sam Snead? He was born in 1912.

Why do people insist that everyone who played before 1980 competed head to head on a regular basis?

[dlygrisse]

Dustin Johnson reminds me of Wieskopf in Jacks era and Couples or DL III in Tigers era. He will be good for one major someday.

Spieth seems to have that mental edge, as Forged pointed out. To me he will have a Watson/Trevino type of career at worst. Potentially he could win 10-15 majors and 50 plus tournaments. The next 15-20 years will be fun to watch.

Every era has their top dogs, underachievers an overachievers. Spieth and Rory are top dog type of players because of the 5 inches between the ears and talent.

[HackerD]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1437476747' post='11990902']
[quote name='playa' timestamp='1437475539' post='11990868']
Honestly I think those who say tigers era was weak just don't remember how good tiger was. Prime tiger would have dominated and crushed most eras imo. I think you would have to go all the way back to Seve and Watson to find anyone who wouldn't have been intimidated by tiger. Guys like Duval, Ernie, Vijay, Love, Freddie, Sergio. They could all really play. I think fields now are strong and deep, but no more or less so than tigers era. The only difference is that tiger was that good he made his competition look weaker, just like Spieth being so good hasn't made the fields suddenly weaker than they were six months ago. Fans should just sit back and enjoy the ride and appreciate greatness without looking for a negative reason why someone can separate from the pack.
[/quote]

I quite rarely agree with you, not that you care, but this time I do.
[/quote]
That sounded just like Peter O'Toole . . .

[UncleJohn’sBand]

If there is yet another mic to drop, at one point in the final round of the open, the top five players on the leaderboard were in the top 25 in the world.

Golf is dead I guess. Bunch of hacks....

[redfirebird08]

[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1437470768' post='11990748']
Tiger was the biggest beneficiary of a weak era.
[/quote]

Explain his scoring average, which has nothing to do with the other players.

[KYMAR]

I remember when Jack chased down Walter Hagen on Sunday at the Bedrock invitational.It went to a playoff that finally ended on the 53rd playoff hole when Wally (i call him Waly, hes cool with it) stymied jack but jack popped his gutta percha up and over with a Niblick and it went in on the fly1 i then partied with hagen, shoeless Joe Jackson, Fidel castro, and hunter S Thompson for 3 days after that! Good times. This was sometime before 1980 when everybody who had ever lived was still. alive and competing.

[nochct1]

[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1437532949' post='11996696']
Dustin Johnson reminds me of Wieskopf in Jacks era and Couples or DL III in Tigers era. He will be good for one major someday.

Spieth seems to have that mental edge, as Forged pointed out. To me he will have a Watson/Trevino type of career at worst. Potentially he could win 10-15 majors and 50 plus tournaments. The next 15-20 years will be fun to watch.

Every era has their top dogs, underachievers an overachievers. Spieth and Rory are top dog type of players because of the 5 inches between the ears and talent.
[/quote]

Speith can be the next Tiger / Jack. Or he can be the next Duval / Miller.

[CrabDaddy]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1437498025' post='11992864']
I would love to see proximity to the hole with irons stats.

There was some item I saw where a guy had some data and said something like the 70th guy on tour and tons of guys hit irons as accurately as Hogan did back then.[/quote]
Blasphemy!

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='redfirebird08' timestamp='1437533610' post='11996806']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1437470768' post='11990748']
Tiger was the biggest beneficiary of a weak era.
[/quote]

Explain his scoring average, which has nothing to do with the other players.
[/quote]

That explains HIS ability, not his competition.

[redfirebird08]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1437534144' post='11996868']
[quote name='redfirebird08' timestamp='1437533610' post='11996806']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1437470768' post='11990748']
Tiger was the biggest beneficiary of a weak era.
[/quote]

Explain his scoring average, which has nothing to do with the other players.
[/quote]

That explains HIS ability, not his competition.
[/quote]

The point is when you average around 68 you're not having a lot of tournaments handed to you. The guy was a freak.

I am excited by what I see from Spieth though. He's tough as nails. His bounceback ability after a mistake is very impressive, he putts amazingly well, and he thinks his way around the course way better than any 21 year old ever should be able to. Gonna be fun to watch him and Rory go at it for the next 20 years.

[FlyPhish]

The "field" does not define the era as much as the golfers at the top do. Thus far, this era is far from fully developed but the talent at the top is not as great as prior eras. Time could change all of that, but not yet.

[mwkbmw]

If I am not mistaken, wasn't this Jordan's first competitive tournament at St. Andrews? To play as well as he did without having the experience (which, if you listened to Tiger's pre-tournament comments, is HUGE), speaks volumes as to the young man's abilities and intelligence.

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1437533628' post='11996808']I remember when Jack chased down Walter Hagen on Sunday at the Bedrock invitational.It went to a playoff that finally ended on the 53rd playoff hole when Wally (i call him Waly, hes cool with it) stymied jack but jack popped his gutta percha up and over with a Niblick and it went in on the fly1 i then partied with hagen, shoeless Joe Jackson, Fidel castro, and hunter S Thompson for 3 days after that! Good times. This was sometime before 1980 when everybody who had ever lived was still. alive and competing.[/quote]i think you are joshing us about Hunter S Thompson. It was Hemmingway......definitely Hemmingway.

[pokerplayer]

weak era argument is bullxxxx. if you are a generational player (ie. once in a decade or century type player), you are so busy crushing the field that no one else can win anything. basically if you apply the same logic to nicklaus, tiger or speith, you are going to see that they are going against a 'weak era'. almost by definition, strong players create weak era's.

in the 70's nickaus, won 8 majors and placed t10 in all but 4 majors, how else are other players suppose to "win" if nicklaus is already taking up all the spots? similarly, tiger won 14majors out a possible 44 in 11 years, thats 32%. its actually insane to win a THIRD of all the majors. again, how else is anyone going to win anything of substance.

seemingly, spieth has been placing at t3 or so at every tournament. the tour has always tried to "defend par", so the courses' difficultly adjust a little to the players, so scoring average is not the most accurate measure in absolute skill/ability/ talent.

[hell_is_chrome]

[quote name='dieselmd' timestamp='1437525521' post='11995784']
It's the final match of the Ryder Cup with the tie in a balance, last game out. Who on the U.S. team do you want as anchor?
[/quote]

Obviously Bubba.

[Shilgy]

[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1437535855' post='11997082']
The "field" does not define the era as much as the golfers at the top do. Thus far, this era is far from fully developed but the talent at the top is not as great as prior eras. Time could change all of that, but not yet.
[/quote]So by that definition all that matters is what? The top 5? Top 10? Top 20? In your opinion if only the top 10 matter does it not matter if the next 10 or 20 or 50 are statistically just as good? All of this talk about weak eras, imo, is senseless. As others have stated it would be a pretty straight line on a graph showing the increase in quality and quantity of strong players from one era to the next. You would have a drop during and after an event like world war 1 and 2 but otherwise the increase would be quite steady. Does no one recall the Curtis Strange interview with Tiger when Woods first came on tour? Tiger said "2nd sucks" and Stranges' reply was "you'll learn". Before Tiger the consensus was there was too much talent on tour for any one player to dominate the way Jack did. Exceptional talents will always find a way to win more than the norm but the sheer number of talented players capable of winning any given week is staggering.

[widow-maker]

[quote name='hwc1954' timestamp='1437531582' post='11996512']
[quote name='dieselmd' timestamp='1437525521' post='11995784']
It's the final match of the Ryder Cup with the tie in a balance, last game out. Who on the U.S. team do you want as anchor?
[/quote]

Jordan Spieth is clearly the top US player, so he would be the choice in the anchor match.

BTW, he passed Rory in ranking points this week, but is still behind in the ranking, which is average points per tourney. His total points are divided by five more tourneys.
[/quote]In actuality, nobody puts their best player out last in the Ryder Cup. The match could be over before that player has anything to say about it. Most of the time, your better players go out 3rd, or 4th to get momentum going in your teams direction. Even in tight competitions, the anchor usually doesn't determine the outcome. It's usually the 2nd or 3rd from the last group that ends up going all 18 and determining the overall result. I can't even remember an occurrence when the 12th match out was the decider.

[FlyPhish]

[quote name='Shilgy' timestamp='1437537846' post='11997254']
[quote name='FlyPhish' timestamp='1437535855' post='11997082']
The "field" does not define the era as much as the golfers at the top do. Thus far, this era is far from fully developed but the talent at the top is not as great as prior eras. Time could change all of that, but not yet.
[/quote]So by that definition all that matters is what? The top 5? Top 10? Top 20? In your opinion if only the top 10 matter does it not matter if the next 10 or 20 or 50 are statistically just as good? All of this talk about weak eras, imo, is senseless. As others have stated it would be a pretty straight line on a graph showing the increase in quality and quantity of strong players from one era to the next. You would have a drop during and after an event like world war 1 and 2 but otherwise the increase would be quite steady. Does no one recall the Curtis Strange interview with Tiger when Woods first came on tour? Tiger said "2nd sucks" and Stranges' reply was "you'll learn". Before Tiger the consensus was there was too much talent on tour for any one player to dominate the way Jack did. Exceptional talents will always find a way to win more than the norm but the sheer number of talented players capable of winning any given week is staggering.
[/quote]

I use basketball as an analogy. Era of Magic and Bird, era of Jordan, era of Kobe and Shaq, Lebron...

An era is generally defined by the best in the sport. Spieth and Rory are off to a good start. Like I said, too early to rank, but thus far the TOP talent is not as good as previous eras.

Would anyone take Spieth versus prime Jack or Tiger? Honestly? It may happen yet, but so far, no.