side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[ncp10]

Ahh, I see, makes perfect sense. So when a particular putter states its loft is X does this always imply the putter was freely hanging when the loft spec was established?

Where did the criticality of "1-1.5 degrees of loft" come from for FO/SS? The $109 model from eBay is 3 degrees (is that from plumb or from the sole/face angle? I'll ask the builder.

[Joe Duffer]

> @ncp10 said:

> Ahh, I see, makes perfect sense.

> 1.) So when a particular putter states its loft is X does this always imply the putter was freely hanging when the loft spec was established?

> 2.) Where did the criticality of "1-1.5 degrees of loft" come from for FO/SS?

> 3.) The $109 model from eBay is 3 degrees (is that from plumb or from the sole/face angle? I'll ask the builder.

 

1.) You would have to check with the builder, but most specs are taken with the putterhead soled (flat).

2.) I have no idea, but it would seem to be logically predicated on the firmness of the putting surface.

3.) I'm guessing the seller doesn't have a clue. Those $109 putters on eBay look like cheap, Chinese-made crap! I'd stay away...

 

 

[Ripper212]

> @"Joe Duffer" said:

> > @ncp10 said:

> > Your putter is fixed and rigid, and of course YOU create a stable repeatable platform and because you aren't fixed and rigid you can set up ANY WAY YOU CHOOSE, this was my point re loft. IOW, 1-2-3 degrees of loft CAN EASILY be adapted to consistently by modifying your setup. My sense is you like to pontificate more than discuss and if someone challenges what you say you then get offended. Sounds good please don't respond to anything else I write here or elsewhere.

>

> - The putter is **NOT** "Fixed or Rigid" at address! - **ALL** of the truly good SS/FO I've known or watched hang the shaft vertically at address.

>

> - When you're hanging or have the putter lightly soled or "tapping" the green's surface at address, it's virtually impossible to "manipulate the putter to make it less lofted (or more, for that matter).

>

> - **Buy a putter that's set up properly, to begin with!** The concept here is to develop a simple and repeatable routine...

>

> BTW, the word "nonsense" was a poor choice. IMO, you owe **bluedot** an apology...

>

> I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

>

>

 

 

[deman77]

I’m considering replacing my 16in flatso grip with a leather tennis overgrip wrap as my best results at the moment are with my bottom hand on the shaft way below the grip and I don’t like the steel smooth texture and coolness. I am in two minds whether to keep the flatso at the top to have the feeling of face position or have the wrap all the way through. I don’t recall feeling particularly upset by original bobby grace split grip that has no flat sections. Would that even be legal to have square and round or would it count as a split grip and would need to be completely round?

What are people’s thoughts?

[ncp10]

> @"Joe Duffer" said:

> 3.) I'm guessing the seller doesn't have a clue. Those $109 putters on eBay look like cheap, Chinese-made crap! I'd stay away...

Joe, most all parts are made in China for golf clubs and everything else. And I've had fabulous results from putting together knockoffs and recently assembled fairway metals ($34 apiece) and hit the crap out of them--long and straight! I had Ping irons custom fitted so that's different for the custom fitting but for putters--pretty hard to screw that up you just have to insure the angles are correct primarily and this is hardly rocket science. I'm interested primarily because he will pay the return freight on a no questions asked return policy so it's zero risk.

[BigEx44]

> @ncp10 said:

> Ahh, I see, makes perfect sense. So when a particular putter states its loft is X does this always imply the putter was freely hanging when the loft spec was established?

> Where did the criticality of "1-1.5 degrees of loft" come from for FO/SS? The $109 model from eBay is 3 degrees (is that from plumb or from the sole/face angle? I'll ask the builder.

The loft of a putter is its loft. Why would it change if freely hanging?

 

[Joe Duffer]

> @ncp10 said:

> > @"Joe Duffer" said:

> > 3.) I'm guessing the seller doesn't have a clue. Those $109 putters on eBay look like cheap, Chinese-made crap! I'd stay away...

> Joe, most all parts are made in China for golf clubs and everything else. And I've had fabulous results from putting together knockoffs and recently assembled fairway metals ($34 apiece) and hit the crap out of them--long and straight! I had Ping irons custom fitted so that's different for the custom fitting but for putters--pretty hard to screw that up you just have to insure the angles are correct primarily and this is hardly rocket science. I'm interested primarily because he will pay the return freight on a no questions asked return policy so it's zero risk.

There's a **HUGE** difference in the quality of Chinese-made golf club components. - I'm simply giving you my take...

[brentflog]

> @deman77 said:

> I’m considering replacing my 16in flatso grip with a leather tennis overgrip wrap as my best results at the moment are with my bottom hand on the shaft way below the grip and I don’t like the steel smooth texture and coolness. I am in two minds whether to keep the flatso at the top to have the feeling of face position or have the wrap all the way through. I don’t recall feeling particularly upset by original bobby grace split grip that has no flat sections. Would that even be legal to have square and round or would it count as a split grip and would need to be completely round?

> What are people’s thoughts?

 

If you have a split grip they must both be round. You could splice two flatsos together then throw a tennis wrap around them. I talked to the USGA about doing this and they said it shouldn’t be a problem.

[ncp10]

> @"Joe Duffer" said:

> There's a **HUGE** difference in the quality of Chinese-made golf club components. - I'm simply giving you my take...

Tell that to the 258y 3W hit to a par 5 last week. I have the right shaft in the $19 Chinese head clearly. I'm not a tour player so that's very good distance for that club for me at my age and skill level. Club feels great and performs well what more do I need. The main concern I have w/ the eBay $109 is the loft is stated as 3 degrees which does not sound good.

[Joe Duffer]

> @ncp10 said:

> > @"Joe Duffer" said:

> > There's a **HUGE** difference in the quality of Chinese-made golf club components. - I'm simply giving you my take...

> Tell that to the 258y 3W hit to a par 5 last week. I have the right shaft in the $19 Chinese head clearly. I'm not a tour player so that's very good distance for that club for me at my age and skill level. Club feels great and performs well what more do I need. The main concern I have w/ the eBay $109 is the loft is stated as 3 degrees which does not sound good.

**Yeah, but was that shot off a down-hill lie, over water and out of a divot?**

[BigEx44]

> @Ripper212 said:

> > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> >

> >

>

>

I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

 

[BigEx44]

My last two rounds I've had 29 putts per round with zero 3 putts.

One round on a VERY fast green (Oak Hill Country Club)

The other on a much slower public course.

For any doubters out there....this method works!!

 

[Ripper212]

> @BigEx44 said:

> > @Ripper212 said:

> > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

>

That’s been my usual approach too. Good to hear that someone else does it as well. My biggest problem is making a full time commitment since I’m actually a pretty good conventional putter

 

[BigEx44]

> @Ripper212 said:

> > @BigEx44 said:

> > > @Ripper212 said:

> > > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> > For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

> >

> That’s been my usual approach too. Good to hear that someone else does it as well. My biggest problem is making a full time commitment since I’m actually a pretty good conventional putter

>

Not an issue for me since I was horrible putting traditionally.

Not uncommon for me to have 40+ putts a round.

I had zero confidence as a putter.

Now it's not uncommon for me to have less than 30 putts a round.

And I actually think of myself as being an excellent putter.

Sidesaddle has given me a completely different mindset!

 

 

[brentflog]

> @BigEx44 said:

> > @Ripper212 said:

> > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

>

 

So are you holding the f22 vertical with a forward press. My f22 would have quite a bit of loft if I just let it hang vertically because of the forward press

[BigEx44]

> @brentflog said:

> > @BigEx44 said:

> > > @Ripper212 said:

> > > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> > For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

> >

>

> So are you holding the f22 vertical with a forward press. My f22 would have quite a bit of loft if I just let it hang vertically because of the forward press

I don't think I'm holding it vertical in the way your describing.

I sole the putter. Get into my setup with the puter soled (and it's natural forward press)

I then just simply move the handle a little right making the shaft more vertical (to my target line). I think this leaves the forward press intact.

I've never really thought about it before.

So the shaft is vertical to my target line. But it's not vertical from my left hand (fulcrum) to the ball.

If that makes sense.....

 

[BigEx44]

> @brentflog said:

> > @BigEx44 said:

> > > @Ripper212 said:

> > > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> > For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

> >

>

> So are you holding the f22 vertical with a forward press. My f22 would have quite a bit of loft if I just let it hang vertically because of the forward press

Plus, I wonder if the "forward press" of the F22 is really a forward press?

Or is it simply a function of the shaft being connected to the back of the putter head?

The top of the shaft is at the same point it would be if the shaft were connected to the front of the putter head (as with the original F22), correct?

I guess I don't think of that as a forward press in my mind.

 

[J_Tizzle]

> @BigEx44 said:

> > @brentflog said:

> > > @BigEx44 said:

> > > > @Ripper212 said:

> > > > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> > > For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

> > >

> >

> > So are you holding the f22 vertical with a forward press. My f22 would have quite a bit of loft if I just let it hang vertically because of the forward press

> I don't think I'm holding it vertical in the way your describing.

> I sole the putter. Get into my setup with the puter soled (and it's natural forward press)

> I then just simply move the handle a little right making the shaft more vertical (to my target line). I think this leaves the forward press intact.

> I've never really thought about it before.

> So the shaft is vertical to my target line. But it's not vertical from my left hand (fulcrum) to the ball.

> If that makes sense.....

>

 

For mine, I set up to the ball with only my lower hand on the putter, holding it vertical and off the ground. Once I've got it lined up, I grab my top hand making sure not to move anything and keeping the putter as straight up and down as possible. Then look and putt.

[brentflog]

> @BigEx44 said:

> > @brentflog said:

> > > @BigEx44 said:

> > > > @Ripper212 said:

> > > > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> > > For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

> > >

> >

> > So are you holding the f22 vertical with a forward press. My f22 would have quite a bit of loft if I just let it hang vertically because of the forward press

> I don't think I'm holding it vertical in the way your describing.

> I sole the putter. Get into my setup with the puter soled (and it's natural forward press)

> I then just simply move the handle a little right making the shaft more vertical (to my target line). I think this leaves the forward press intact.

> I've never really thought about it before.

> So the shaft is vertical to my target line. But it's not vertical from my left hand (fulcrum) to the ball.

> If that makes sense.....

>

 

Thanks for your response. I had the original f35 and it had a more pronounced forward press. I had the shaft bent to get it straight up and down. I may do the same With the f22

[ncp10]

> @"Joe Duffer" said:

> > @ncp10 said:

> > > @"Joe Duffer" said:

> > > There's a **HUGE** difference in the quality of Chinese-made golf club components. - I'm simply giving you my take...

> > Tell that to the 258y 3W hit to a par 5 last week. I have the right shaft in the $19 Chinese head clearly. I'm not a tour player so that's very good distance for that club for me at my age and skill level. Club feels great and performs well what more do I need. The main concern I have w/ the eBay $109 is the loft is stated as 3 degrees which does not sound good.

> **Yeah, but was that shot off a down-hill lie, over water and out of a divot?**

Oh, OK good point. Where do you think Callaway and TaylorMade manufacture their golf clubs? Where do you think they are assembled?

 

 

[BigEx44]

> @brentflog said:

> > @BigEx44 said:

> > > @brentflog said:

> > > > @BigEx44 said:

> > > > > @Ripper212 said:

> > > > > > I agree that the good FO putters hang the club vertically but I just can’t seem to get consistently solid contact that way and tend to miss right. I keep going back and forth with my setup between soled and vertical depending on which feels better at the time. I tinker with everything else in my golf swing but you’d think at least I could develop an easily repeatable address position with the putter!

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > I sole my putter for the longer lag putts where stability is most important.

> > > > For the shorter "makeable" putts I go more vertical for accuracy.

> > > >

> > >

> > > So are you holding the f22 vertical with a forward press. My f22 would have quite a bit of loft if I just let it hang vertically because of the forward press

> > I don't think I'm holding it vertical in the way your describing.

> > I sole the putter. Get into my setup with the puter soled (and it's natural forward press)

> > I then just simply move the handle a little right making the shaft more vertical (to my target line). I think this leaves the forward press intact.

> > I've never really thought about it before.

> > So the shaft is vertical to my target line. But it's not vertical from my left hand (fulcrum) to the ball.

> > If that makes sense.....

> >

>

> Thanks for your response. I had the original f35 and it had a more pronounced forward press. I had the shaft bent to get it straight up and down. I may do the same With the f22

Funny how our minds work....

I actually had an F22 with a straight shaft that connected to the front of the putter head. Didn't like it all.

Exact same putter with a KA shaft and I love it.

Go figure....

 

 

[ncp10]

> @BigEx44 said:

> I checked with USGA myself. You CAN hold a putter vertical. Just as you could hold your 9 iron vertical if you wanted to swing that way.

>

> As long as the putter you're using conforms to USGA guidelines AND you don't anchor it - you can hold it any way you want.

 

Since I really don't know exactly how loft angle is determined (is it X degrees relative to the front of the shaft, the sole of the head, or true plumb?), and since I know EFFECTIVE loft is relative to EFFECTIVE lie, I asked JuanPutt about their putter this way: "What I would like to know is when your putter hangs FREELY like a plumb bob what will the loft angle be on the face of the putter". Here was their reply: "Thank you for your interest in JUANPUTT. Please refer to USGA Rules, Appendix 11, d (1). Putters that can be used in a vertical manner are deemed Non-Conforming."

Why did they respond this way in light of what you learned from the USGA?

 

[BigEx44]

> @ncp10 said:

> > @BigEx44 said:

> > I checked with USGA myself. You CAN hold a putter vertical. Just as you could hold your 9 iron vertical if you wanted to swing that way.

> >

> > As long as the putter you're using conforms to USGA guidelines AND you don't anchor it - you can hold it any way you want.

>

> Since I really don't know exactly how loft angle is determined (is it X degrees relative to the front of the shaft, the sole of the head, or true plumb?), and since I know EFFECTIVE loft is relative to EFFECTIVE lie, I asked JuanPutt about their putter this way: "What I would like to know is when your putter hangs FREELY like a plumb bob what will the loft angle be on the face of the putter". Here was their reply: "Thank you for your interest in JUANPUTT. Please refer to USGA Rules, Appendix 11, d (1). Putters that can be used in a vertical manner are deemed Non-Conforming."

> Why did they respond this way in light of what you learned from the USGA?

>

Putters MADE to be held vertical would be deemed non-conforming by the USGA.

Once a putter is approved by the USGA however, it can be held vertical.

In other words, you can hold a putter NOT MADE to be held vertcal, vertical (if that makes sense...)

 

[ncp10]

> @BigEx44 said:

> Putters MADE to be held vertical would be deemed non-conforming by the USGA.

> Once a putter is approved by the USGA however, it can be held vertical.

> In other words, you can hold a putter NOT MADE to be held vertcal, vertical (if that makes sense...)

I guess it's their wording that seems ambiguous: "Putters that can be used in a vertical manner are deemed Non-Conforming." Of course any putter *could* be used in a vertical manner, so therein lies the out presumably.

 

[Ripper212]

> @ncp10 said:

> > @BigEx44 said:

> > Putters MADE to be held vertical would be deemed non-conforming by the USGA.

> > Once a putter is approved by the USGA however, it can be held vertical.

> > In other words, you can hold a putter NOT MADE to be held vertcal, vertical (if that makes sense...)

> I guess it's their wording that seems ambiguous: "Putters that can be used in a vertical manner are deemed Non-Conforming." Of course any putter *could* be used in a vertical manner, so therein lies the out presumably.

>

 

Understood but BigEX is correct. This has been discussed in detail on this forum, probably way back in this thread even! Bottom line according to USGA is that if the putter is DESIGNED to be held vertically, such as a curved sole, then it may have to have a lie angle significantly less than the mandatory 80* in order to be approved. Once the putter is approved though, it clearly can be held vertically. FWIW, PR Dionne's GP putter is conforming even though he states that the smaller size of the putter head does facilitate holding it vertically.

[ncp10]

I'm going to give it a try with the 79 degree lie 46" model off of ebay for $109 w/ a 30d return policy and he pays the return shipping. I have a good opportunity to give it many hours of dedicated practice on a very nice practice green and I'll take it out on the course several times as well. I'm anxious to learn if I can find a style of use that obviates yipping. If it's essentially yip-proof for me AND I have at least some encouraging results during this month I'll keep it and stay with it. If not back she goes. I wonder for any of you who decided to stay with it how long it took you before you exceeded the proficiency you had w/ your former method of putting.

[BigEx44]

> @ncp10 said:

> I'm going to give it a try with the 79 degree lie 46" model off of ebay for $109 w/ a 30d return policy and he pays the return shipping. I have a good opportunity to give it many hours of dedicated practice on a very nice practice green and I'll take it out on the course several times as well. I'm anxious to learn if I can find a style of use that obviates yipping. If it's essentially yip-proof for me AND I have at least some encouraging results during this month I'll keep it and stay with it. If not back she goes. I wonder for any of you who decided to stay with it how long it took you before you exceeded the proficiency you had w/ your former method of putting.

 

> @ncp10 said:

> I'm going to give it a try with the 79 degree lie 46" model off of ebay for $109 w/ a 30d return policy and he pays the return shipping. I have a good opportunity to give it many hours of dedicated practice on a very nice practice green and I'll take it out on the course several times as well. I'm anxious to learn if I can find a style of use that obviates yipping. If it's essentially yip-proof for me AND I have at least some encouraging results during this month I'll keep it and stay with it. If not back she goes. I wonder for any of you who decided to stay with it how long it took you before you exceeded the proficiency you had w/ your former method of putting.

 

Well....since I was horrible with my former/traditional way of putting.....my improvement was immediate. And unlike a lot of folks, where I saw the most immediate improvement was in my lag putting.

 

[J_Tizzle]

> @BigEx44 said:

> > @ncp10 said:

> > I'm going to give it a try with the 79 degree lie 46" model off of ebay for $109 w/ a 30d return policy and he pays the return shipping. I have a good opportunity to give it many hours of dedicated practice on a very nice practice green and I'll take it out on the course several times as well. I'm anxious to learn if I can find a style of use that obviates yipping. If it's essentially yip-proof for me AND I have at least some encouraging results during this month I'll keep it and stay with it. If not back she goes. I wonder for any of you who decided to stay with it how long it took you before you exceeded the proficiency you had w/ your former method of putting.

>

> > @ncp10 said:

> > I'm going to give it a try with the 79 degree lie 46" model off of ebay for $109 w/ a 30d return policy and he pays the return shipping. I have a good opportunity to give it many hours of dedicated practice on a very nice practice green and I'll take it out on the course several times as well. I'm anxious to learn if I can find a style of use that obviates yipping. If it's essentially yip-proof for me AND I have at least some encouraging results during this month I'll keep it and stay with it. If not back she goes. I wonder for any of you who decided to stay with it how long it took you before you exceeded the proficiency you had w/ your former method of putting.

>

> Well....since I was horrible with my former/traditional way of putting.....my improvement was immediate. And unlike a lot of folks, where I saw the most immediate improvement was in my lag putting.

>

 

I'm the same as Big, I was so bad with a traditional putter, it was almost immediate.

 

For me the quickest thing to improve was my lines. It became so easy to hit my intended lines and putts looked like they were going in on a much more consistent basis. Even if they didn't. Just hitting a putt on the edge and knowing you misread it, rather than hitting a terrible putt. Boosts the confidence, which is the best thing possible for putting.

[ncp10]

Thanks for your comments I hope it's good for me as I'm in the same club just not putting well, or worse, these days. I played last week w/ a 4-some and they play $1 closest to the hole on par 3's and you need to make par or better to collect. The longest was 208y and I hit the most lovely 3i to 6', and missed the birdie but had 6" for par so collected there. The next was a 7 iron to 13', which 3' out of the closest to the hole but the winner there 3 putted from 10' so the bet carried over. The next was to 8 feet w/ an 8i. Two putted there for par and $2 per player for the carry over. The last one was a 9i to 11' which was closest to the hole, and I proceeded to leave the first putt 3' short, and then missed the putt 3" wide and it was almost straight. My long game is as good as its ever been but the putting just sucks and practicing hasn't helped a whole lot. So I hope this will give me a new lease on golf it's very frustrating to have a good driving and iron game, good chipping, fair bunker play, then have 34 putts a round or what have you.

[ncp10]

> @ncp10 said:

> Thanks for your comments I hope it's good for me as I'm in the same club just not putting well, or worse, these days. I played last week w/ a 4-some and they play $1 closest to the hole on par 3's and you need to make par or better to collect. The longest was 208y and I hit the most lovely 3i to 6', and missed the birdie but had 6" for par so collected there. The next was a 7 iron to 13', which 3' out of the closest to the hole but the winner there 3 putted from 10' so the bet carried over. The next was to 8 feet w/ an 8i. Two putted there for par and $2 per player for the carry over. The last one was a 9i to 11' which was closest to the hole, and I proceeded to leave the first putt 3' short, and then missed the putt 3" wide and it was almost straight. My long game is as good as its ever been but the putting just sucks and practicing hasn't helped a whole lot. So I hope this will give me a new lease on golf it's very frustrating to have a good driving and iron game, good chipping, fair bunker play, then have 34 putts a round or what have you.

 

Putter should arrive in 2 days so I'm stoked to give it a good honest trial.