Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[Conrad1953]

I'm just nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody.

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

[Reasonability]

I'm just nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody.

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

 

Not that my worthless viewpoint changes anything, but ya know how these days we often see a liquid slow-mo of the clubhead rolling thru impact? Just about every time, there's a fair amount of shockwave up through the hosel and into the tip of the shaft. That tip oscillates-distorts for a bit. It's sort of like a slow-mo of a boxer's face taking a solid punch. All that registers in my pea brain as being as much if not more significant than how much clubface trampoline stuff happens.

 

My bad. I'm being a dog with a bone. Lol - Won't mention it again.

[Conrad1953]

I'm just nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody.

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

 

Not that my worthless viewpoint changes anything, but ya know how these days we often see a liquid slow-mo of the clubhead rolling thru impact? Just about every time, there's a fair amount of shockwave up through the hosel and into the tip of the shaft. That tip oscillates-distorts for a bit. It's sort of like a slow-mo of a boxer's face taking a solid punch. All that registers in my pea brain as being as much if not more significant than how much clubface trampoline stuff happens.

 

My bad. I'm being a dog with a bone. Lol - Won't mention it again.

 

Not following you. Up through the hosel to the tip? The tip with the grip on it?

[scomac2002]

Geez, almost a full calender day has passed. Can't let our beloved Grille go that long

without a single post from anyone.

 

Somebody call someone.................

 

But, you're the man. You know the Powers That Be. You have a direct line to Someone. It all rests with you.

 

Yep, I called the Powers That Be...................you and Da Judge. Da Judge will be posting soon too. I made

the clarion call...............and you responded.

 

Now I can see Da Judge as being part of the Powers That Be. Him and BIG STU I suppose. Me, I'm just a shlub stuck out in the cold.

 

Did I mention that we're having another winter storm? :diablo:

[scomac2002]

I'm just nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody.

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

 

Not that my worthless viewpoint changes anything, but ya know how these days we often see a liquid slow-mo of the clubhead rolling thru impact? Just about every time, there's a fair amount of shockwave up through the hosel and into the tip of the shaft. That tip oscillates-distorts for a bit. It's sort of like a slow-mo of a boxer's face taking a solid punch. All that registers in my pea brain as being as much if not more significant than how much clubface trampoline stuff happens.

 

My bad. I'm being a dog with a bone. Lol - Won't mention it again.

 

I love the analogy. That does sort of suit you to a tee...

 

Can't really add anything to the discussion though. About all I'm good for this time of night is a drive-by quip. Just what the heck am I doing up at this hour anyway?

[Fellaheen51]

I'm just nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody.

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

 

As mentioned before, big fan of PL shafts as well. Using the PL Platinum in the V-Steel fairway woods. A mid-launch, medium stiff tip (between the Blue and Red) to assist with bringing down my typical high ball flight a bit. Not like I have a whole lot of experience using a variety of shafts, tend to stay ones that work half way decently. If ball goes straight, I'm satisfied. Especially with a fairway metal. Additional, new and uncut PL shafts can be found off the Bay on the cheap.

 

Decided on using Grafalloy PL Red Axis shafts in the Maltby TS1 iron build. Tested ~73 gram shaft weight through the fall in a demo head, and swinging several OEM irons with graphites that were all of similar weight. To determine whether I could coexist with shafts this light. (No problem.) The Red Axis is unusual in that I've not been able to find any spec info about it. And I have every Golfsmith and Golfworks catalog going back to 2000. Even the internets does not provide the model specific information. PL Red, yes. PL Red Axis, nada. Working on the assumption that they're a one generation newer shaft, just like the wood shafts, so the specs will be similar. And that the PL Red Axis has a stiffer tip (i.e. higher bend point) compared to the PL Blue. Which was what I was after. To assist with "toning down" the potentiality for high trajectory. Acquired off the Bay for ~$11.50 during a flash sale, a cost to acquire that made the decision easy. Only been able to hit them off mats in the dome on two occasions, so subject to what will be realized once I can swing them and hit some balls out on a golf course. With that said, so far so good. Not that it has any bearing on performance, but the aesthetic of head, shaft and grip look damn nice. Fella can't play at golf with ugly clubs.

 

GW have "new" PL Blue shafts listed. Don't know how these spec out or feel vs. the "classic" models from a few years back. Not sure how much TT (who now owns Grafalloy) is investing in the brand. My theory is a shaft from a few years back is "good enough" for someone like myself. That investing substantially more in a shaft selection is not going to make any substantive difference in how they feel or perform. Keep in mind, PL iron shafts are going to be .370 tips. So will not fit in .355 tapers. Unless one is willing to perform a ream job on the hosels. Not difficult, but most have a reluctance to so modify a bore.

 

LW graphite, high MPF, skinny soles. All part of the transitioning to easy to swing, hollow bodied, foam filled, SGI, "old man" irons that don't look the part.

 

 

[SixtySomePing]

I am regretting posting that pic of my golf cart and talking about how I can play year round up here in the Northwest. We had a perfectly nice mild winter until then. Now we are having late Feb. snow. Just enough to keep us off of the course and make me shovel a little snow at home and quite a bit of snow up here at the office. Supposed to get 6-10 inches tonight and tomorrow. I did see a flock of Robins that are back so maybe. Hope so. Can't wait. Will have to wait. No choice. Think Spring!

 

Not to worry Scotee. No regrets necessary at all.

 

Mother Nature always has her day anywhere we live on this planet. Hawaii would be great, until a volcano erupts. So Cal - earthquakes. The southeastern US gets all four seasons and all four slap us silly at times. Tornado alley in the central US. Bitter wind and cold to the north. Blazing heat and sun toward the desert. Typhoons assaulting our old buddy Hammer. Even Tol faces the fury of Mother Nature's wrath when she's good and ready to bust a move.

 

That ultimate paradise just doesn't exist. At least not in this life. Still, some places do tend to serve up a little more golf weather than others. I'm one lotto ticket from owning properties in each of them. :golfer:

You didn't mention the South Pole. No earthquakes, no tornadoes, no blazing heat, no typhoons, just bitter cold. But is there really bitter cold? Perhaps it's like those 'earth is flat' people. Maybe the South Pole is a golfer's paradise, but they don't want tourists. Could be 72*, sunny and beautiful, year round. Throw out a few photo shopped pics of the North Pole minus Mr. & Mrs. Claus, and it's believable. No one comes there. You have to make a few adjustments, e.g. UPS, FedEx doesn't deliver new or used ho'ed clubs, so you have to make other arrangements so as not to attract attention. Has to be a no drone zone so you and your cronies are alone. Sure they show these uninteresting unclear vids of people in these little metal huts with snow and ice piled up around them, temps of 30* below and wind chills of minus 60 below. They dash out occasionally to adjust some kind of equipment and while they're out there if they have to pea it turns into a rod they use for a weather vane. But in reality, it's all staged, and the funds they are given are used for the upkeep of their golf courses. You ask, 'how do I get in on this?' Ha, how do you investigate molten lava once everyone has been told to leave an island in Hawaii (sometimes for months)? (same group, different people-coincidence? I think not)

[Wriggles]

6" of snow yesterday, the heavy wet kind. Went outside around 10:00am to shovel snow, it took about 40 minutes to clear sidewalks and such. Didn't really feel tired or sore for several hours afterward. Just hit me all of a sudden in later afternoon. Not so much sore, just fatigue.

 

Laid down at 5:30pm, and slept until 8:00. Got up, laid back down. Usual bathroom trips every few hours, and up at 5:30am.

 

Feel OK today, at least this morning.

 

Sixty, your comment about the South Pole reminds me of the "Land That Time Forgot" book and movie. HG Wells? I recall the movie, where the U Boat landed in some prehistoric area at one of the poles. An aging Doug McClure was the star. He was some kind of survivor from a ship the submarine had sunk.

 

Supposed to be close to 60 degrees by Saturday. At least, the snow should be melted.

[scomac2002]

I see that I'm not the only person lurking about in the wee hours. Laid back down around 3:30 am and managed to "rest" until 7:00. Can't say I slept. DW says I have travel anxiety. Never used to bother me, but it seems the last few times we have flown I've not been a happy camper back wise. I've been sore for a week now, hopefully my Physio appointment this afternoon will help. That and a week's worth of sunny southern weather will improve my mood if nothing else.

 

WE were spared the snow this time, but instead we got another shot of freezing rain. If this is what they call global warming then you can have it! You don't have to shovel, but man is it treacherous underfoot! It would be really nice if all this mess were gone when we get back. It's supposed to make it to 50° by Sunday with rain, so hopefully that does the trick. I've ceased looking at the long range because it has just been depressing. Maybe the silly rodent will be right for a change...

 

----------------------------------

 

Been watching lots of curling this week with the Scotties round robin play now completed. The playoff round begins today with a tie breaker this morning to determine the final spot in the playoff draw. Perhaps the two biggest surprises has been the spotty play of the defending champions who have eeked into the playoffs on the weaker side of the draw and the fine play of the PEI rink who have displayed very aggressive play to lead the tournament in scoring average.

 

Went to the curling club last night to watch DW play (and have supper afterward). Had a chance to visit with a few members that I haven't seen in quite sometime. I was asked how I was doing and whether or not I would be returning next season. That was the first time that I answered that question with a negative. I know that I need to have some sort of physical activity in the winter, but the curling membership doesn't make a whole lot of sense under the present circumstances. I can join the YMCA for a year for the same money as a curling membership. That will offer more flexibility not being committed to a schedule, although I don't know exactly what would be suitable. I will miss the social aspect though.

[Conrad1953]

pl

[Conrad1953]

I'm just nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody.

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

 

As mentioned before, big fan of PL shafts as well. Using the PL Platinum in the V-Steel fairway woods. A mid-launch, medium stiff tip (between the Blue and Red) to assist with bringing down my typical high ball flight a bit. Not like I have a whole lot of experience using a variety of shafts, tend to stay ones that work half way decently. If ball goes straight, I'm satisfied. Especially with a fairway metal. Additional, new and uncut PL shafts can be found off the Bay on the cheap.

 

Decided on using Grafalloy PL Red Axis shafts in the Maltby TS1 iron build. Tested ~73 gram shaft weight through the fall in a demo head, and swinging several OEM irons with graphites that were all of similar weight. To determine whether I could coexist with shafts this light. (No problem.) The Red Axis is unusual in that I've not been able to find any spec info about it. And I have every Golfsmith and Golfworks catalog going back to 2000. Even the internets does not provide the model specific information. PL Red, yes. PL Red Axis, nada. Working on the assumption that they're a one generation newer shaft, just like the wood shafts, so the specs will be similar. And that the PL Red Axis has a stiffer tip (i.e. higher bend point) compared to the PL Blue. Which was what I was after. To assist with "toning down" the potentiality for high trajectory. Acquired off the Bay for ~$11.50 during a flash sale, a cost to acquire that made the decision easy. Only been able to hit them off mats in the dome on two occasions, so subject to what will be realized once I can swing them and hit some balls out on a golf course. With that said, so far so good. Not that it has any bearing on performance, but the aesthetic of head, shaft and grip look damn nice. Fella can't play at golf with ugly clubs.

 

GW have "new" PL Blue shafts listed. Don't know how these spec out or feel vs. the "classic" models from a few years back. Not sure how much TT (who now owns Grafalloy) is investing in the brand. My theory is a shaft from a few years back is "good enough" for someone like myself. That investing substantially more in a shaft selection is not going to make any substantive difference in how they feel or perform. Keep in mind, PL iron shafts are going to be .370 tips. So will not fit in .355 tapers. Unless one is willing to perform a ream job on the hosels. Not difficult, but most have a reluctance to so modify a bore.

 

LW graphite, high MPF, skinny soles. All part of the transitioning to easy to swing, hollow bodied, foam filled, SGI, "old man" irons that don't look the part.

 

 

 

That is a sweet looking iron Fella! Since you have hit them a few times how is the feel and

sound with the foam filling? And how are they performing so far? Looks to me like they are

engineered with strategic weight placement to optimize performance.

[Reasonability]

I'm just nobody trying to tell everybody about somebody.

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

 

Not that my worthless viewpoint changes anything, but ya know how these days we often see a liquid slow-mo of the clubhead rolling thru impact? Just about every time, there's a fair amount of shockwave up through the hosel and into the tip of the shaft. That tip oscillates-distorts for a bit. It's sort of like a slow-mo of a boxer's face taking a solid punch. All that registers in my pea brain as being as much if not more significant than how much clubface trampoline stuff happens.

 

My bad. I'm being a dog with a bone. Lol - Won't mention it again.

 

I love the analogy. That does sort of suit you to a tee...

 

Can't really add anything to the discussion though. About all I'm good for this time of night is a drive-by quip. Just what the heck am I doing up at this hour anyway?

 

Guilty as charged. :). As to insomnia, it comes and goes here. For periods of time I sleep like a hibernating bear for consecutive nights. Then out of the blue I don't. Prolly related to caffeine intake if I had to guess. Might solve the riddle on the South Pole one fine day.

 

How's your noggin?

[scomac2002]

 

I hear ya Pardo. You're not alone, tho. Old axe-murdering Reason is present and accounted for.

 

So as I recall you're a fan of PL blue shafts. (Great segue, eh?). PL as in Pro Launch I presume? Got any experience with them in irons, or just driver???

 

Driver, FW and hybrids. Love that shaft in all of them. Have not tried it with irons.

 

Not that my worthless viewpoint changes anything, but ya know how these days we often see a liquid slow-mo of the clubhead rolling thru impact? Just about every time, there's a fair amount of shockwave up through the hosel and into the tip of the shaft. That tip oscillates-distorts for a bit. It's sort of like a slow-mo of a boxer's face taking a solid punch. All that registers in my pea brain as being as much if not more significant than how much clubface trampoline stuff happens.

 

My bad. I'm being a dog with a bone. Lol - Won't mention it again.

 

I love the analogy. That does sort of suit you to a tee...

 

Can't really add anything to the discussion though. About all I'm good for this time of night is a drive-by quip. Just what the heck am I doing up at this hour anyway?

 

Guilty as charged. :). As to insomnia, it comes and goes here. For periods of time I sleep like a hibernating bear for consecutive nights. Then out of the blue I don't. Prolly related to caffeine intake if I had to guess. Might solve the riddle on the South Pole one fine day.

 

How's your noggin?

 

OK for the most part. At least that's one part of my body that generally doesn't hurt. Now take my wife; she pops extra strength tylenol like candy from a Pez dispenser! Women and their hormones I guess...

 

At least she doesn't have habitual migraines. One of her co-workers was a sufferer. They would put her completely out of commission. She eventually changed jobs and moved up north to a lower stress environment, but I'm not sure how much that helped. When you're forced to live with that most of your life, it takes years off of you. She passed away a few years ago. Don't think she ever made it to 70. :(

[Fellaheen51]

Only have had two sessions with them at the golf dome. Limited to ~ 115 yards to the back wall, off mats (although half way decent ones). So still limited to the most general of impressions. WTS, very easy to launch with the mass being down low. Seems to be a high trajectory but not ballooning. As much as I can tell given the limitations. Also and somewhat surprising can flight them up or down some with shaft manipulation. Something that I couldn't do with the Pings. Worthy of further exploration once I can get outside.

 

The feel has an agreeable solidness to center face ball strike. Dare I say crisp. Not as soft feeling as the Hogans, but only marginally. Will give you some feedback on a mishit (often out towards the toe for me), but not penal. Still realize an acceptable dispersion, just the distance being shorter. When I mishit the i20's, seemed to loose both distance and line. Sound is what it should be. Nothing objectionable. Sounds like what I perceive an iron should sound like. I trialed both the TM P790 and G700 last fall in my shaft evaluation testing. Both were louder than what I thought was customary IIRC. And both were much to large of a head to my eye (the G700's were huge!).

 

We'll see how the soles perform off grass at some point. But have high expectations. Proper looking radius and camber contours to the sole, without having to rely on high bounce to make the soles playable for a hack like me. Which was what I was after, thinner soles. Wanting an iron head that I could simple "ground" in a natural position without having to manipulate the head and shaft to set it up. As I have said before, would be interested in an iron that offered SGI playability in a tidy package that didn't look the part. If that means hollow body and foam injection so be it. Really wanted to play something different in my irons without spending a small fortune.

 

Could be confirmation bias, but more than pleased with what I'm realizing so far. I'll get back with you in July on whether these are L/T players.

[SixtySomePing]

pl

please see your corrected tax form and remit blah blah blah... it's about that time of year right? :stop:

[Reasonability]

Only have had two sessions with them at the golf dome. Limited to ~ 115 yards to the back wall, off mats (although half way decent ones). So still limited to the most general of impressions. WTS, very easy to launch with the mass being down low. Seems to be a high trajectory but not ballooning. As much as I can tell given the limitations. Also and somewhat surprising can flight them up or down some with shaft manipulation. Something that I couldn't do with the Pings. Worthy of further exploration once I can get outside.

 

The feel has an agreeable solidness to center face ball strike. Dare I say crisp. Not as soft feeling as the Hogans, but only marginally. Will give you some feedback on a mishit (often out towards the toe for me), but not penal. Still realize an acceptable dispersion, just the distance being shorter. When I mishit the i20's, seemed to loose both distance and line. Sound is what it should be. Nothing objectionable. Sounds like what I perceive an iron should sound like. I trialed both the TM P790 and G700 last fall in my shaft evaluation testing. Both were louder than what I thought was customary IIRC. And both were much to large of a head to my eye (the G700's were huge!).

 

We'll see how the soles perform off grass at some point. But have high expectations. Proper looking radius and camber contours to the sole, without having to rely on high bounce to make the soles playable for a hack like me. Which was what I was after, thinner soles. Wanting an iron head that I could simple "ground" in a natural position without having to manipulate the head and shaft to set it up. As I have said before, would be interested in an iron that offered SGI playability in a tidy package that didn't look the part. If that means hollow body and foam injection so be it. Really wanted to play something different in my irons without spending a small fortune.

 

Could be confirmation bias, but more than pleased with what I'm realizing so far. I'll get back with you in July on whether these are L/T players.

 

MAN! Big ol' smile on this face. Love the info on these shafts, sticks, pics, ownership of all the shaft spec sheets dating back for so many years.

 

You guys are truly something special to be around. Well played!

 

So, Radro, take a look at the shaft in this vid. Now granted, the distortion of the shaft PRIMARILY occurs after impact and once there is contact with mother earth. But nonetheless, there's a ton of shape-shifting going on. This is what I was getting at last eve. This is why to my pea brain, the shaft is as much if not more a big deal relative to (dog with a bone) how much or little trampoline stuff happens. Weight distribution and such... I get it. Simply sharing what my mind "sees" or interprets as a biggie inside of it all.

 

(Notice also how the handle does barely make it just ahead of the ball before the clubhead - true. BUT - that clubhead FLIES out ahead of the handle instantaneously. That IMO is less a function of swinging the arms hard, or pulling on the handle, and more a function of swinging that clubhead PAST the handle. AKA the wrists.) But that's swing talk - not shaft talk. LOL. Two different animals.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

After seeing things like this, I can't help believing the flex point, stiffness, torque, yadda aren't a really big deal in the grand scheme of things. Not that anyone here is disagreeing, but simply sharing how to my eye it's a monster inside the "specs" of our sticks.

[scotee]

Only have had two sessions with them at the golf dome. Limited to ~ 115 yards to the back wall, off mats (although half way decent ones). So still limited to the most general of impressions. WTS, very easy to launch with the mass being down low. Seems to be a high trajectory but not ballooning. As much as I can tell given the limitations. Also and somewhat surprising can flight them up or down some with shaft manipulation. Something that I couldn't do with the Pings. Worthy of further exploration once I can get outside.

 

The feel has an agreeable solidness to center face ball strike. Dare I say crisp. Not as soft feeling as the Hogans, but only marginally. Will give you some feedback on a mishit (often out towards the toe for me), but not penal. Still realize an acceptable dispersion, just the distance being shorter. When I mishit the i20's, seemed to loose both distance and line. Sound is what it should be. Nothing objectionable. Sounds like what I perceive an iron should sound like. I trialed both the TM P790 and G700 last fall in my shaft evaluation testing. Both were louder than what I thought was customary IIRC. And both were much to large of a head to my eye (the G700's were huge!).

 

We'll see how the soles perform off grass at some point. But have high expectations. Proper looking radius and camber contours to the sole, without having to rely on high bounce to make the soles playable for a hack like me. Which was what I was after, thinner soles. Wanting an iron head that I could simple "ground" in a natural position without having to manipulate the head and shaft to set it up. As I have said before, would be interested in an iron that offered SGI playability in a tidy package that didn't look the part. If that means hollow body and foam injection so be it. Really wanted to play something different in my irons without spending a small fortune.

 

Could be confirmation bias, but more than pleased with what I'm realizing so far. I'll get back with you in July on whether these are L/T players.

 

MAN! Big ol' smile on this face. Love the info on these shafts, sticks, pics, ownership of all the shaft spec sheets dating back for so many years.

 

You guys are truly something special to be around. Well played!

 

So, Radro, take a look at the shaft in this vid. Now granted, the distortion of the shaft PRIMARILY occurs after impact and once there is contact with mother earth. But nonetheless, there's a ton of shape-shifting going on. This is what I was getting at last eve. This is why to my pea brain, the shaft is as much if not more a big deal relative to (dog with a bone) how much or little trampoline stuff happens. Weight distribution and such... I get it. Simply sharing what my mind "sees" or interprets as a biggie inside of it all.

 

(Notice also how the handle does barely make it just ahead of the ball before the clubhead - true. BUT - that clubhead FLIES out ahead of the handle instantaneously. That IMO is less a function of swinging the arms hard, or pulling on the handle, and more a function of swinging that clubhead PAST the handle. AKA the wrists.) But that's swing talk - not shaft talk. LOL. Two different animals.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

After seeing things like this, I can't help believing the flex point, stiffness, torque, yadda aren't a really big deal in the grand scheme of things. Not that anyone here is disagreeing, but simply sharing how to my eye it's a monster inside the "specs" of our sticks.

 

 

Yes, I know! I have looked at those super slo mo's and wondered how in the world do I make as many solid strikes as I do? Kind of answers the question of why I can't hit the shot the same way every time. There is a lot going on down there! It's a miracle that we can hit it at all.

[Conrad1953]

pl

[Fellaheen51]

Watch the video carefully. Starting at .06 through .07, may have to use pause to get the playback timing just right. All that shaft action is occurring after the ball has left the club face by an instant. Prior, the shaft maintains good perpendicularity between the handle and the head. What does it mean? IDK. Think the key here is what is occurring during the downswing with the shaft. How much "bending" is occurring? Particularly at the speeds a pro can generate. To much flexing = loss of directional control. Cannot observe much from the vid other than the shaft is in alignment just before the ball strike.

 

For us mere mortals, of the belief that the two key criteria for iron shaft suitability is overall weight and the bend profile of the entire shaft. The profile will determine how a shaft feels during the swing. An even flexing profile vs. one that accentuates the bottom end "kick" to the release by way of example. The weight is self evident. The individual preferred weight that makes swinging the club easier without losing directional control. Even moreso as we get older and/or are afflicted with certain infirmities. Going lower than 95 grams in weight makes the selection of graphite for you by default. Get those two factors right, you're 90% of the way to finding a playable iron shaft.

[Conrad1953]

The bending could be the result of contact with the ground. With a driver (no ground contact) you

usually see the shaft bending toward the ball at impact as the shaft kicks.

[SixtySomePing]

Only have had two sessions with them at the golf dome. Limited to ~ 115 yards to the back wall, off mats (although half way decent ones). So still limited to the most general of impressions. WTS, very easy to launch with the mass being down low. Seems to be a high trajectory but not ballooning. As much as I can tell given the limitations. Also and somewhat surprising can flight them up or down some with shaft manipulation. Something that I couldn't do with the Pings. Worthy of further exploration once I can get outside.

 

The feel has an agreeable solidness to center face ball strike. Dare I say crisp. Not as soft feeling as the Hogans, but only marginally. Will give you some feedback on a mishit (often out towards the toe for me), but not penal. Still realize an acceptable dispersion, just the distance being shorter. When I mishit the i20's, seemed to loose both distance and line. Sound is what it should be. Nothing objectionable. Sounds like what I perceive an iron should sound like. I trialed both the TM P790 and G700 last fall in my shaft evaluation testing. Both were louder than what I thought was customary IIRC. And both were much to large of a head to my eye (the G700's were huge!).

 

We'll see how the soles perform off grass at some point. But have high expectations. Proper looking radius and camber contours to the sole, without having to rely on high bounce to make the soles playable for a hack like me. Which was what I was after, thinner soles. Wanting an iron head that I could simple "ground" in a natural position without having to manipulate the head and shaft to set it up. As I have said before, would be interested in an iron that offered SGI playability in a tidy package that didn't look the part. If that means hollow body and foam injection so be it. Really wanted to play something different in my irons without spending a small fortune.

 

Could be confirmation bias, but more than pleased with what I'm realizing so far. I'll get back with you in July on whether these are L/T players.

 

MAN! Big ol' smile on this face. Love the info on these shafts, sticks, pics, ownership of all the shaft spec sheets dating back for so many years.

 

You guys are truly something special to be around. Well played!

 

So, Radro, take a look at the shaft in this vid. Now granted, the distortion of the shaft PRIMARILY occurs after impact and once there is contact with mother earth. But nonetheless, there's a ton of shape-shifting going on. This is what I was getting at last eve. This is why to my pea brain, the shaft is as much if not more a big deal relative to (dog with a bone) how much or little trampoline stuff happens. Weight distribution and such... I get it. Simply sharing what my mind "sees" or interprets as a biggie inside of it all.

 

(Notice also how the handle does barely make it just ahead of the ball before the clubhead - true. BUT - that clubhead FLIES out ahead of the handle instantaneously. That IMO is less a function of swinging the arms hard, or pulling on the handle, and more a function of swinging that clubhead PAST the handle. AKA the wrists.) But that's swing talk - not shaft talk. LOL. Two different animals.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

After seeing things like this, I can't help believing the flex point, stiffness, torque, yadda aren't a really big deal in the grand scheme of things. Not that anyone here is disagreeing, but simply sharing how to my eye it's a monster inside the "specs" of our sticks.

 

 

Yes, I know! I have looked at those super slo mo's and wondered how in the world do I make as many solid strikes as I do? Kind of answers the question of why I can't hit the shot the same way every time. There is a lot going on down there! It's a miracle that we can hit it at all.

 

For me the clubface says everything in the video. I don't care what the shaft is saying.

Riddle me this...

What determines where the fly will go in this video? :happy: I have my thoughts, I want to see if anyone agrees...

[scotee]

Watch the video carefully. Starting at .06 through .07, may have to use pause to get the playback timing just right. All that shaft action is occurring after the ball has left the club face by an instant. Prior, the shaft maintains good perpendicularity between the handle and the head. What does it mean? IDK. Think the key here is what is occurring during the downswing with the shaft. How much "bending" is occurring? Particularly at the speeds a pro can generate. To much flexing = loss of directional control. Cannot observe much from the vid other than the shaft is in alignment just before the ball strike.

 

For us mere mortals, of the belief that the two key criteria for iron shaft suitability is overall weight and the bend profile of the entire shaft. The profile will determine how a shaft feels during the swing. An even flexing profile vs. one that accentuates the bottom end "kick" to the release by way of example. The weight is self evident. The individual preferred weight that makes swinging the club easier without losing directional control. Even moreso as we get older and/or are afflicted with certain infirmities. Going lower than 95 grams in weight makes the selection of graphite for you by default. Get those two factors right, you're 90% of the way to finding a playable iron shaft.

 

Of course you are right Fella. What happens after impact is beside the point just like in this swing. If you look at his positions just before and at impact it is all pretty traditional. A lot going on right after :)

 

http://www.golfchann...choi-experience

[Fellaheen51]

Only have had two sessions with them at the golf dome. Limited to ~ 115 yards to the back wall, off mats (although half way decent ones). So still limited to the most general of impressions. WTS, very easy to launch with the mass being down low. Seems to be a high trajectory but not ballooning. As much as I can tell given the limitations. Also and somewhat surprising can flight them up or down some with shaft manipulation. Something that I couldn't do with the Pings. Worthy of further exploration once I can get outside.

 

The feel has an agreeable solidness to center face ball strike. Dare I say crisp. Not as soft feeling as the Hogans, but only marginally. Will give you some feedback on a mishit (often out towards the toe for me), but not penal. Still realize an acceptable dispersion, just the distance being shorter. When I mishit the i20's, seemed to loose both distance and line. Sound is what it should be. Nothing objectionable. Sounds like what I perceive an iron should sound like. I trialed both the TM P790 and G700 last fall in my shaft evaluation testing. Both were louder than what I thought was customary IIRC. And both were much to large of a head to my eye (the G700's were huge!).

 

We'll see how the soles perform off grass at some point. But have high expectations. Proper looking radius and camber contours to the sole, without having to rely on high bounce to make the soles playable for a hack like me. Which was what I was after, thinner soles. Wanting an iron head that I could simple "ground" in a natural position without having to manipulate the head and shaft to set it up. As I have said before, would be interested in an iron that offered SGI playability in a tidy package that didn't look the part. If that means hollow body and foam injection so be it. Really wanted to play something different in my irons without spending a small fortune.

 

Could be confirmation bias, but more than pleased with what I'm realizing so far. I'll get back with you in July on whether these are L/T players.

 

MAN! Big ol' smile on this face. Love the info on these shafts, sticks, pics, ownership of all the shaft spec sheets dating back for so many years.

 

You guys are truly something special to be around. Well played!

 

So, Radro, take a look at the shaft in this vid. Now granted, the distortion of the shaft PRIMARILY occurs after impact and once there is contact with mother earth. But nonetheless, there's a ton of shape-shifting going on. This is what I was getting at last eve. This is why to my pea brain, the shaft is as much if not more a big deal relative to (dog with a bone) how much or little trampoline stuff happens. Weight distribution and such... I get it. Simply sharing what my mind "sees" or interprets as a biggie inside of it all.

 

(Notice also how the handle does barely make it just ahead of the ball before the clubhead - true. BUT - that clubhead FLIES out ahead of the handle instantaneously. That IMO is less a function of swinging the arms hard, or pulling on the handle, and more a function of swinging that clubhead PAST the handle. AKA the wrists.) But that's swing talk - not shaft talk. LOL. Two different animals.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

After seeing things like this, I can't help believing the flex point, stiffness, torque, yadda aren't a really big deal in the grand scheme of things. Not that anyone here is disagreeing, but simply sharing how to my eye it's a monster inside the "specs" of our sticks.

 

 

Yes, I know! I have looked at those super slo mo's and wondered how in the world do I make as many solid strikes as I do? Kind of answers the question of why I can't hit the shot the same way every time. There is a lot going on down there! It's a miracle that we can hit it at all.

 

For me the clubface says everything in the video. I don't care what the shaft is saying.

Riddle me this...

What determines where the fly will go in this video? :happy: I have my thoughts, I want to see if anyone agrees...

[media=]

[/media]

 

The weight of the line determines where the fly will be cast. The rod creates the leverage to apply force to the line in order to cast towards the target. Why its important to have a balanced combination of the two, the line weight matching the rod specifications.

 

And I would add one other point. On Michigan trout streams, one often doesn't have the room to execute long back casts. Have to learn how to roll cast. No back cast, bring the rod tip back to about 10 o'clock, and with correct timing and a release of the wrist, snap the line forward in a tight loop towards the target. All in the wrist action.

[SixtySomePing]

The weight may certainly tell how far it will go, but the picture is a hint on where it will go. To me, if you got rid of everything else in this video except this one obvious thing and the fly, it would equal the ball and the clubface...

[SixtySomePing]

The weight (of the line) may certainly tell how far it will go, but the picture is a hint on where it will go. To me, if you got rid of everything else in this video except this one obvious thing and the fly, it would equal the ball and the clubface...

• 0
  

• Reply
  
• Quote
  
• =18692076&st=&auth_key=0fc9a3fded2661b075a20aee7e3fe900"]Delete
  
• Edit
  

[SixtySomePing]

Only have had two sessions with them at the golf dome. Limited to ~ 115 yards to the back wall, off mats (although half way decent ones). So still limited to the most general of impressions. WTS, very easy to launch with the mass being down low. Seems to be a high trajectory but not ballooning. As much as I can tell given the limitations. Also and somewhat surprising can flight them up or down some with shaft manipulation. Something that I couldn't do with the Pings. Worthy of further exploration once I can get outside.

 

The feel has an agreeable solidness to center face ball strike. Dare I say crisp. Not as soft feeling as the Hogans, but only marginally. Will give you some feedback on a mishit (often out towards the toe for me), but not penal. Still realize an acceptable dispersion, just the distance being shorter. When I mishit the i20's, seemed to loose both distance and line. Sound is what it should be. Nothing objectionable. Sounds like what I perceive an iron should sound like. I trialed both the TM P790 and G700 last fall in my shaft evaluation testing. Both were louder than what I thought was customary IIRC. And both were much to large of a head to my eye (the G700's were huge!).

 

We'll see how the soles perform off grass at some point. But have high expectations. Proper looking radius and camber contours to the sole, without having to rely on high bounce to make the soles playable for a hack like me. Which was what I was after, thinner soles. Wanting an iron head that I could simple "ground" in a natural position without having to manipulate the head and shaft to set it up. As I have said before, would be interested in an iron that offered SGI playability in a tidy package that didn't look the part. If that means hollow body and foam injection so be it. Really wanted to play something different in my irons without spending a small fortune.

 

Could be confirmation bias, but more than pleased with what I'm realizing so far. I'll get back with you in July on whether these are L/T players.

 

MAN! Big ol' smile on this face. Love the info on these shafts, sticks, pics, ownership of all the shaft spec sheets dating back for so many years.

 

You guys are truly something special to be around. Well played!

 

So, Radro, take a look at the shaft in this vid. Now granted, the distortion of the shaft PRIMARILY occurs after impact and once there is contact with mother earth. But nonetheless, there's a ton of shape-shifting going on. This is what I was getting at last eve. This is why to my pea brain, the shaft is as much if not more a big deal relative to (dog with a bone) how much or little trampoline stuff happens. Weight distribution and such... I get it. Simply sharing what my mind "sees" or interprets as a biggie inside of it all.

 

(Notice also how the handle does barely make it just ahead of the ball before the clubhead - true. BUT - that clubhead FLIES out ahead of the handle instantaneously. That IMO is less a function of swinging the arms hard, or pulling on the handle, and more a function of swinging that clubhead PAST the handle. AKA the wrists.) But that's swing talk - not shaft talk. LOL. Two different animals.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

After seeing things like this, I can't help believing the flex point, stiffness, torque, yadda aren't a really big deal in the grand scheme of things. Not that anyone here is disagreeing, but simply sharing how to my eye it's a monster inside the "specs" of our sticks.

 

 

Yes, I know! I have looked at those super slo mo's and wondered how in the world do I make as many solid strikes as I do? Kind of answers the question of why I can't hit the shot the same way every time. There is a lot going on down there! It's a miracle that we can hit it at all.

 

For me the clubface says everything in the video. I don't care what the shaft is saying.

Riddle me this...

What determines where the fly will go in this video? :happy: I have my thoughts, I want to see if anyone agrees...

[media=]

[/media]

 

The weight of the line determines where the fly will be cast. The rod creates the leverage to apply force to the line in order to cast towards the target. Why its important to have a balanced combination of the two, the line weight matching the rod specifications.

 

And I would add one other point. On Michigan trout streams, one often doesn't have the room to execute long back casts. Have to learn how to roll cast. No back cast, bring the rod tip back to about 10 o'clock, and with correct timing and a release of the wrist, snap the line forward in a tight loop towards the target. All in the wrist action.

 

The weight (of the line) may certainly tell how far it will go, but the picture is a hint on where it will go. To me, if you got rid of everything else in this video except this one obvious thing and the fly, it would equal the ball and the clubface...

[Reasonability]

What determines where the fly will go? Having never been fly fishing I dunno. The answer is in the video itself?

 

Hmmm.

 

Scenario #1: Sixty is posing a legit question. One that directly relates to what makes a golf ball go where it goes. He's about to beautifully tie his own world of sticks and swings into a beautifully elegant point.

 

OR...

 

Scenario #2: Sixty has baited his old Buddy Reason in ways that will go down in Grille history. Should I assume scenario #1 and answer in that spirit, he will respond in a way that righteously knocks my nads into next week. Reason will be singing helium soprano forevermore.

 

Hmmmmm. :wacko:

 

Let me go get my cup.

 

OK... Nads on lock-down. I'll play.

 

Eyes see a spot out there. Brain tells hand to flick the rod "that way" enough to get it there. Fly goes there. With time and practice, fisherman learns fancy ways to do it and gives them cool names.

 

AKA - "Hit the damn ball".

[Reasonability]

Watch the video carefully. Starting at .06 through .07, may have to use pause to get the playback timing just right. All that shaft action is occurring after the ball has left the club face by an instant. Prior, the shaft maintains good perpendicularity between the handle and the head. What does it mean? IDK. Think the key here is what is occurring during the downswing with the shaft. How much "bending" is occurring? Particularly at the speeds a pro can generate. To much flexing = loss of directional control. Cannot observe much from the vid other than the shaft is in alignment just before the ball strike.

 

For us mere mortals, of the belief that the two key criteria for iron shaft suitability is overall weight and the bend profile of the entire shaft. The profile will determine how a shaft feels during the swing. An even flexing profile vs. one that accentuates the bottom end "kick" to the release by way of example. The weight is self evident. The individual preferred weight that makes swinging the club easier without losing directional control. Even moreso as we get older and/or are afflicted with certain infirmities. Going lower than 95 grams in weight makes the selection of graphite for you by default. Get those two factors right, you're 90% of the way to finding a playable iron shaft.

 

Of course you are right Fella. What happens after impact is beside the point just like in this swing. If you look at his positions just before and at impact it is all pretty traditional. A lot going on right after :)

 

http://www.golfchann...choi-experience

 

LOL - A Grill. We're rubbing off on someone out there.

 

Cool!

[tolmij]

Well hello, plenty going on at the home from front.

 

Reading about the filling on clubs, I cannot see how any of that would be of benefit to the average golfer when you consider only 10% ever break 100. It’s all about fleecing the average joe out of as much cash as possible, and guess what, we let them do it. Most of us apart from the grille club hoes are satisfied with a good or better than average game, so spending on clubs to gain an extra 10 yds on our drives is of no concern.

 

It seems you are all suffering from extreem weather, we have had alerts this week, a cyclone off the Queensland coast was going to hit land and soak us with 2ft of rain, it started to move away so now all we have are strong winds that have closed all the beaches. We desperately need rain, only one reasonable shower all summer our wet season so we are going to be spending heaps over winter to keep all our plants and trees alive, we have already lost some, DW is not happy.

 

Lucky today I was not tooled, will keep up for now very hard work catching all the different topics in the Grille reading has to be current.

 

Started a new painting yesterday, two more in the all most finished stage. Have a Good Friday Grillers, take care.

[tolmij]

Fly fishing was one of my pursuits many moons ago, it’s all in the weight of the line and the flexibility of the rod, that and a very good wrist action, caught many trout in shallow trout streams. Did some wet fishing under water bait, but mainly dry fly fishing, floating flys made from feathers. Interesting way to catch fish.