Fitting Tall Golfers With NO Chart or Preconceived Ideas!

[rybo]

 

Don't know if anyone has posted this video but they're illustrating the point we're talking about in this thread. At least how I understood it. They're talking about how to create more room between the player and the ball. Somehow the simplest solution isn't mentioned.... MAKE THE CLUB LONGER.

 

Phil Blackmar and Charlie Rymer on numerous occasions speak directly to not being able to be fit properly due to their height!

 

http://www.golfchann...rs-face-course/

[rybo]

Just posted this in another thread.

 

Maiden voyage for the 1/8" increment Forged set will be happening at 1pm this afternoon! This thread got me thinking it was time to give this a try!!

 

Here's the build!:

 

5 270g 38.25"

6 272g 38.125"

7 274g 38"

8 276g 37.875"

9 278g 37.75"

P 280g 37.625"

G 280g 37.5"

S 280g 37.375"

L 280g 37.25"

 

Close enough to 7g per 1/2" that it keeps the swingweight even across the set. Lie angles progress from 64.5* - 66*. Frequency is all within a few CPM's of one another.

 

Had the 5 iron and PW out yesterday for some shaft trials and after tipping the Accuflex shafts within a hair of their lives they are playable enough. GW still has Steelfiber i110 X and the two wedges have KBS C-Taper S+(these are what I have been playing).

 

 

 

Obviously these are no longer SL, but this out of the box thinking type of build would not be possible without SL heads! So it's an adaption of the best of both worlds!

[AmazinBlue]

What shafts and shaft weights are you using? My biggest issue with these experiments have been the super high swing weights especially in the wedges, to the point of me going back to my 3/8" increments from 4-PW and having the GW same as PW and 1/4" increments for the SW and LW. In my case, the LW has come back to a length of 36", just 1"over.

[rsballer10]

What shafts and shaft weights are you using? My biggest issue with these experiments have been the super high swing weights especially in the wedges, to the point of me going back to my 3/8" increments from 4-PW and having the GW same as PW and 1/4" increments for the SW and LW. In my case, the LW has come back to a length of 36", just 1"over.

He's using single length heads, and probably tip weighting the short irons.

[rybo]

All of the heads (5-LW) are 270g Added tip weights to attain the incremental head weights.

 

After an hour range session and 18 holes I am considering this a complete success! Truly the best of best worlds.

 

The shafts were some cheap Accuflex steel shafts. They weigh 125g.

[mb123]

fascinating thread of goodness. What does your calculator say for 6'3" with 38 WTF and ~65" shoulder height? I have a set of new shafts and would love to experiment and redo a set of backup clubs I have to see if it would make a difference.

 

You are a great example (6’ 3” with a 38” wtf) why using the method detailed in post #1 to find your low length limit is so important.

 

What are the length and line of your current PW?

36" length 64.5* lie.

[rybo]

fascinating thread of goodness. What does your calculator say for 6'3" with 38 WTF and ~65" shoulder height? I have a set of new shafts and would love to experiment and redo a set of backup clubs I have to see if it would make a difference.

 

You are a great example (6’ 3” with a 38” wtf) why using the method detailed in post #1 to find your low length limit is so important.

 

What are the length and line of your current PW?

36" length 64.5* lie.

 

I'd say you could try 37" for sure.

 

Your WTF measurement is exceptionally high for someone your height. Either your arms are quite short and/or shoulders are quite high. Using the low limit length method would be a far superior way to determine what length fits your body proportions. You are a great example why fitting charts do not work!

 

Another aspect to be aware of at only 6' 3" is where your spine tilt starts from. Even though you have a 38" WTF, your overall height is going to dictate waist height and therefore spine tilt. ie.. your hand height may hang a bit lower then someone who is say 6' 4" or 6' 5" with a 38" wtf.

[mb123]

My armspan is 77” inches, i wear a 36” shirt so not sure. Maybe im taking the measurement wrong. Here i am with a 44” driver and 5 iron callaway + 1/2 length and +1* up

 

[Golf4lifer]

My armspan is 77” inches, i wear a 36” shirt so not sure. Maybe im taking the measurement wrong. Here i am with a 44” driver and 5 iron callaway + 1/2 length and +1* up

 

 

This may not work for those of us with long arms. I’m the same in shirts for arm length and I play +1/2 and 2* flat. I’m loving this combo.

[SixSixGolf]

Read the whole thread and I'm going for it. Done some preliminary work and I think this could be a solution to my back issues. 6'6" with 39" WTF. Building these:

 

5 - 40.625

6 - 40.25

7 - 39.875

8 - 39.5

9 - 39.125

P, G, SW, LW - 38.75

 

 

Finally had the chance to play a few rounds with these bad boys. Very interesting results. I flattened the heads to 1 Up from standard and I'm striping everything. High ball flights, much flatter swing and my back feels great. I also lengthened my 21 degree hybrid to 41 inches and the results are great. With this change I'm suddenly hitting draws with my 42" 4 wood and 45" driver. Only issue is with pull shots with the wedges. I have to be very careful to keep my swing path out to the right. Distance control with a 38.75" lob wedge has also been an issue. I may end up cutting it down some.

[williefo]

Rybo,

I really have to thank you for starting this topic and exploding some of the conventional wisdom. I've been playing 4 years and am 60 years old, 15 handicap. 6' 2" and wrist to floor 38. Really struggle with irons, almost always hitting them fat or thin. Have been fit for irons 1 inch longer and 3 degrees up.

After reading this thread twice through I decided that's not long enough and had my shop add another inch to the 8-LW. Did not flatten the lie angles.

 

The club tech said I'd struggle with huge pull/ hooks. Not so! I'm hitting dead straight, high flying bombs. In three rounds not one shot has been thin or fat. This is a spectacular improvement! I was curious how swing weights and shaft flex (mind are regular graphite shafts) would be effected. I have no numbers or trackman-style data. I just know that the feel and results speak for themselves.

 

Thanks again for opening my mind. Golf is way more fun now and I'm very grateful to you.

 

Willie

[rybo]

The club tech said I'd struggle with huge pull/ hooks. Not so! I'm hitting dead straight, high flying bombs. In three rounds not one shot has been thin or fat. This is a spectacular improvement! I was curious how swing weights and shaft flex (mind are regular graphite shafts) would be effected. I have no numbers or trackman-style data. I just know that the feel and results speak for themselves.

 

Great to hear another person finding a better club set up!

 

IF the club already fit you, then the tech would likely be correct that any lengthening may cause you to struggle with pulls/hooks. However the situation is the club did not fit properly and your body was not in a good position. Lengthening the club allowed the body to find a better posture and does not require the clubs lie angle to be adjusted. The body changed, the club did not! You may find some lie adjustment is needed in the future, like 1* flatter or something, nothing drastic.

 

Lengthening does create higher swing weights for sure. Flex will also get softer but just how much is dependent on the shaft itself. Some shafts will play much softer while others seem to almost have no effect. Since it's working for you, do not try to over analyze it.

[danattherock]

Great info Rybo, thank you. At 6’6”. 320 lbs, I have wasted money on several fittings over the last 25 Year’s. Typical cramming square peg in round hole. Back injury five years ago in car crash forced me to quit playing. Can’t even reach ground with my typical 1.25” over 2 degrees upright set. If I am able to play in the future, I am certain a much longer set than anyone in my area would make will be required. Lol.

 

[TheMackDaddy]

Just posted this in another thread.

 

Maiden voyage for the 1/8" increment Forged set will be happening at 1pm this afternoon! This thread got me thinking it was time to give this a try!!

 

Here's the build!:

 

5 270g 38.25"

6 272g 38.125"

7 274g 38"

8 276g 37.875"

9 278g 37.75"

P 280g 37.625"

G 280g 37.5"

S 280g 37.375"

L 280g 37.25"

 

Close enough to 7g per 1/2" that it keeps the swingweight even across the set. Lie angles progress from 64.5* - 66*. Frequency is all within a few CPM's of one another.

 

Had the 5 iron and PW out yesterday for some shaft trials and after tipping the Accuflex shafts within a hair of their lives they are playable enough. GW still has Steelfiber i110 X and the two wedges have KBS C-Taper S+(these are what I have been playing).

 

 

 

Obviously these are no longer SL, but this out of the box thinking type of build would not be possible without SL heads! So it's an adaption of the best of both worlds!

What grips/grip size are those?

[rybo]

name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1512969912' post='16544956'][/b]

What grips/grip size are those?

 

The grips are oversized GolfPride CP2 Wraps.

 

Go look at post #361 (pg 13), my hand did not fit on the Footjoy glove fitting tool.

[Prut]

6'4", 39 WTF here. Single digit handicap but always a below average iron player. Wish I had found this thread a month ago. I just put a set of AWT 2.0s in a pristine set of MP33s with less than pleasing results. Do you think extensions would work to get the measurements I needed?

[rybo]

6'4", 39 WTF here. Single digit handicap but always a below average iron player. Wish I had found this thread a month ago. I just put a set of AWT 2.0s in a pristine set of MP33s with less than pleasing results. Do you think extensions would work to get the measurements I needed?

 

Any club can be extended to attain what length you need. Unfortunately the weight of the heads will make the swingweights very high and the club will feel like a sledgehammer.

[SixSixGolf]

Why does Golfrnut even post in this thread? We get it, you don't get it, move along.

 

Read the whole thread and I'm going for it. Done some preliminary work and I think this could be a solution to my back issues. 6'6" with 39" WTF. Building these:

 

5 - 40.625

6 - 40.25

7 - 39.875

8 - 39.5

9 - 39.125

P, G, SW, LW - 38.75

 

I've wound up with this:

 

Driver: 46"

3W: 43"

Hybrid: 41"

Driving Iron: 40.5"

5: 40.625"

6: 40.25"

7: 39.875"

8: 39.5"

9: 39.125"

P: 38.75"

A: 38.375"

SW: 38"

L: 37.625"

 

I found that the extra long SW/L were really had to control on full shots. Everything else has been much better. Can work the ball both ways now instead of always playing a fade. My back is much better also.

[TLT_Dan]

name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1512969912' post='16544956'][/b]

What grips/grip size are those?

 

The grips are oversized GolfPride CP2 Wraps.

 

Go look at post #361 (pg 13), my hand did not fit on the Footjoy glove fitting tool.

 

http://www.jumbomax.com/

take a look at these

[rybo]

name='TheMackDaddy' timestamp='1512969912' post='16544956'][/b]

What grips/grip size are those?

 

The grips are oversized GolfPride CP2 Wraps.

 

Go look at post #361 (pg 13), my hand did not fit on the Footjoy glove fitting tool.

 

http://www.jumbomax.com/

take a look at these

 

I have tried the S, L, & XL Jumbomax grips and actually liked them a lot. The small for me was the most playable however the weight of the grips was an issue. Seemed to put too much weight in the hands and occasionally I would get this feeling of throwing the handle at the ball.

 

An oversized, no taper grip was next and I've been using them for over a year with great results. Must add my driver, 3 and 5 woods and driving iron have Lamkin Midsize Crosslines with 4 or 5 wraps of tape. For me the CP2's are just too soft for the longer clubs. I have been messing with a midsize CP2 with multiple wraps on a driver and it is much better but still a bit too soft for my liking. Maybe we'll get lucky and GolfPride will make a slightly firmer CP2 grip someday!

[shanksaplenty]

6'4", 39 WTF here. Single digit handicap but always a below average iron player. Wish I had found this thread a month ago. I just put a set of AWT 2.0s in a pristine set of MP33s with less than pleasing results. Do you think extensions would work to get the measurements I needed?

 

Any club can be extended to attain what length you need. Unfortunately the weight of the heads will make the swingweights very high and the club will feel like a sledgehammer.

 

True. I extended my current irons (9-LW) to 8-iron length (8-iron is +1) and the swingweights were as follows:

 

9 = D7

P = E0

G = D9

56 = E2.5

60 = E2

 

Too heavy (tendinitis returned as a result) so I’ll be changing these clubs back to their previous length.

 

However, I was very impressed with how much easier it was to set-up (and clear my hips) with the lengthened short irons. I’ll probably be ordering 9-LW in SL very soon.

 

Rybo...great topic and thanks for thinking of us tall guys! Sure wish I would’ve known about the SL options when I started the game. I played for approx. 25 years with clubs which were 1 inch short.

 

[Sean2]

Besides being kind on my joints, another reason I switched to graphite is with steel shafts my irons/wedges were E4-E6. I am at +2-inches. I don't know what my current swing weights are, but the clubs feel a lot better than my previous ones.

[AmazinBlue]

So I haven't seen putter lengths covered in this thread. I understand iron fitting is much more complex and probably of greater interest to the taller masses out there, but I am desperately trying to improve my putting. So I am throwing out any preconceived notions about putter length and my posture and starting from scratch. I'm going from a crouched posture to an upright posture and trying to figure out what the right length should be and if I should employ the same concepts as we are with irons.

[SixSixGolf]

So I haven't seen putter lengths covered in this thread. I understand iron fitting is much more complex and probably of greater interest to the taller masses out there, but I am desperately trying to improve my putting. So I am throwing out any preconceived notions about putter length and my posture and starting from scratch. I'm going from a crouched posture to an upright posture and trying to figure out what the right length should be and if I should employ the same concepts as we are with irons.

 

Putter length should be determined by eye position at address. Get a mirror.

[archer1]

So I haven't seen putter lengths covered in this thread. I understand iron fitting is much more complex and probably of greater interest to the taller masses out there, but I am desperately trying to improve my putting. So I am throwing out any preconceived notions about putter length and my posture and starting from scratch. I'm going from a crouched posture to an upright posture and trying to figure out what the right length should be and if I should employ the same concepts as we are with irons.

 

I have a WTF of 38 1/4" and prefer a straight leg putting style with my eyes just inside the ball. As a result, the length of my putter is 36 5/8".

[rybo]

Putter length is dependent on too many variables and personal preferences. How someone grips the putter could easily change the length needed by a couple of inches.

 

With that said, those that are exceptionally tall will likely require a longer putter as much as someone who is exceptionally short will require a shorter putter.

[CVA19]

I'm so happy I found this thread. I haven't had a chance to read every post but the information is fascinating. I'm 6'4 a 38 WTF (going off memory here). My last fitting put me +1.75 and it's helped my posture a ton. I also have had a few back issues.

 

The only problem I have now is my wedges and low irons still feel too short. I'd really like to get G thru Lob lengthen to at least my PW. Is it possible to make all of these the same length as my 8 iron without screwing messing with the angles too much?

[beakster]

Yes you absolutely have to go with stiffer shafts. An XX will drop down into the S range when going with 38" wedges. I have built many as I do get a lot of tall players. What you do want to watch is to not go crazy long in your long iron lengths.

 

By keeping all your wedges (and maybe even the 9 iron) at say 64 or 65 lie and the (same) length you determine to be the wedge starting point is sound, then by using the 1/2 degree lie change dropping down to the 4 iron you can keep these clubs from getting crazy long. I do feel the 1/2 inch for every 1/2 degree change is too much and may cause the long irons to be longer than needed.

 

Everything I do is about keeping the player in their strongest athletic address position - for every club, and RYBO has a very reasonable approach at a great starting point. Keeping these really tall players with high WTF really do require wedges up into the 38" range. It's not unreasonable as these guys have been squatting and bending over way too far with their +1" clubs all their life. Successfully fitting the very tall is not that hard if you understand all the parameters of a proper fitting - and building techniques.

I'm 6'4 with long arms (a touch under 37 wrist to floor) but I use standard length clubs because growing up in used my dad's old clubs and he's only around 5'8. I got used to using standard length clubs and grooved my swing around it. I'm not sure if I'm bent over too much but I have "normal" knee flex at setup.

 

I've used clubs +1/2" and +1" but the standard length just feels natural as that is what I grew up using. I also play my driver a touch under standard at 45.25".

 

The aspect of playing what you have become used to/grew up playing can not be overlooked. I have been on something of a lengthening journey over the past 3-4 years changing increment lengths, lengthening clubs, single length, shafts, grips, etc. So for me to transition to what is now by far the longest length I have ever played, one would have to suspect those 3-4 years and many iterations of different builds has made it much easier. I can not say if jumping up in length all at once would have worked as well, just don't know. What I am playing now just feels so right and basically matches up with the anthropometric calculations for my height and the minimum length attained from the low limit length fitting.

So how much longer did you go in length?

[beakster]

UPDATE

 

Two months ago I tried a set of Cobra One length irons and my variable length irons have not been touched since! This has truly been one of the best things I have ever come across in all of my years of building and trying various clubs. For me it has simplified the game, swing, scoring, etc.

 

I had already spent a lot of time finding the absolute shortest length I could use for the lob and sand wedges, and 37.25" & 64.75* are the absolute minimums FOR ME.

 

So here is what I am playing:

 

 

Cobra F7 and One Length wedges

 

L, S, G = 37.25" & 64.75*

6-P = 37.5" & 64.5*

5 = 37.75" & 64.25*

 

4 iron is from a VL set and is 39" & 62.75* (Callaway X Hot N-14)

 

Wedges have C-Taper S+ tip trimmed 6.5", very close to 7 iron trimming

Irons have Steelfiber i110 X tip trimmed to 8 iron specs

4 iron has a Project X Flighted 6.5 tip trimmed to 4 iron specs

 

The Cobra heads weigh 270 grams. The lob and sand wedge heads weigh 272g. Wedge have additional 8g tip weights. They were just too light for what I had already become accustom to when drilling out material.

 

 

I have also made an adjustment to the driver length that was needed due to a swing change that occurred from using the single length irons. My swing was very much a two plane type swing, but has naturally gravitated to more of a modified one plane swing. While the over length fairway woods have performed fine with the swing change, driver performance was awful. I just wasn't presenting the face of the club to the ball the same way. I've settled in at 45 3/8" at the moment. Playing a Tensei Orange 70 TX tipped 1" with a 2014 Great Big Bertha with two sliding weights and a 10 gram weight. Total headweight at 208g. (I'm on my 3rd Epic SubZero as the heads keep breaking! Epic SZ has been sidelined)

 

 

I also have a set of Cobra Forged One Length irons that came +3/4" with the standard KBS X flex 130g shafts. They are simply too heavy for me and will be rebuilt. They will be rebuilt with 1/8" steps as I still really want to try this set up. The head weights will varied by 2g gaps with tip weights ie..5 iron 270g, 6 iron 272g, 7 iron 274g, etc. Likely will go with C-Taper for this set. I also plan on making these a bit longer overall then the F7's. Probably start 5 iron at 38 1/4" and work the length down in 1/8" increments from there.

 

I have picked up distance, something I was not after at all, but the accuracy gains I am having with the SL set up has blown me away. I have had more rounds in the 60's in the past 4 weeks then I have had in a very long time and this is with a bulky putter on very slow, wet, Florida summer greens. The game has become easier. Practice is so much more focused.

 

Not saying I will never use a true VL set again, but there is nothing making me think or want to go back to them.

 

I'm starting to think the classic VL set isn't a good ideas for us tall folks who need length. My predicament is that I love the old STD length when it comes to the 3-6 irons, but those shorter wedges are no good for approach shots. So last week I re-shafted my irons to +1 (38.75" 5i) and of course, wedges are better but now the long irons suck.

 

So I sat down with a piece of paper and started with a 37 3/4 5i and came up with this:

 

5i : 37 3/4

6i : 37 3/8

7i : 37

8i : 36 5/8

9-Wedges : 36 1/4

Am interested in how this length worked out for you? How tall are you? Going to make any changes or recommendations? My concern with length change is that I will end up with long irons that will feel too long and wedges that will feel great, but distance control will suffer?

[beakster]

The proportions of arm length, leg length torso length are distributed around the averages that you showed in the charts. I don't think you really used those charts, except to support your idea that longer clubs would be better. The only problem I see is that you are looking at a small percentage of golfers. So small that equipment that supports extra long length clubs is hard to come by.

 

Looking at your long club experiment you stick with the .5" increments in length. I've seen Wishon and others move towards a smaller increment for taller golfers, I suppose to stay within the available equipment. I would think that the single length irons might be most appropriate for golfers that need longer clubs since the low lofted irons would remain at more manageable lengths.

 

What shafts and heads did you use in your experiment? What kind of swing weight or moi did you see? How did the 4 iron play? I would think that the total radius (arms + club) of the arc would limit accuracy the longer it is.

 

Actually I have a fully operational and mathematically generated chart that shows the proportions for shoulder height and arm length that used the direct measurements provided from the anthropometric charts. I am extremely reluctant to post it due to the last fiasco in the other thread.

 

I stuck with 1/2" increments because that is what the fitting gave me. I didn't dictate the fitting, the fitting dictated what would work!

 

If you do a search you will find I have done everything 1/8" to 1/2" increments. Played 3/8" for the last 6 years or so.

Here is a link where I went from single length to 1/8"

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...0#entry14210900

 

Why did neither work as well as what I have now? because the shorter clubs were still too short, I was still having to bend over too much, slump my shoulders, bend too much at the waist, etc etc etc. Hell the 1/8" literally just jammed all the clubs up to something that was still too short but this made them more playable. Still not right just more playable.

 

Currently using Cleveland CG16 T Spec heads and i95 Steelfibers. I also have jumbo grips on all clubs as I have pretty large hands, actually they are oversized to average for my height. The 4 iron is great! Long and straight, and unfortunately your comment of 'I would think that the total radius (arms + club) of the arc would limit accuracy the longer it is' is exactly reason us tall people have been having so many issues being fit properly. It's a preconceived idea. How about since are we taller we need longer clubs. This will make it easier to return the clubhead in its proper orientation!

 

Ordered another set of Steelfibers yesterday to put in a set of Bridgestone J40 DPC's. Shafts should be here Thursday but I'm headed out of town Friday morning so it may not be until next week before they are built.

 

I was in Pinehurst last week for a member guest. Used the clubs built a week earlier. Played courses 9, 7 & 2 and I led the field in eagles and birdies over the 3 rounds, 2 and 11 respectively. If I could have putted even just a bit better, could have easily doubled the birdie count. Also played two practice rounds on 9 & 7 and the clubs were phenomenal.

Sounds like you have found your setup! I am 6'3" wtf 38.75" my current Ping G30 irons are Maroon Dot, plus 1/2". I am thinking that after finding my low and high point and making the adjustments that my clubs will need to be bent flatter, correct? Also, I am interested in what happened to your distances for each iron after you lengthened them? Since the weight and swingweight changed from club to club, is your distance gapping still the same as it was before? I guess what I am asking in a nutshell is "After I make this change, what am I going to notice, other than being comfortable!"