Fitting Tall Golfers With NO Chart or Preconceived Ideas!

[rybo]

Where did I claim that? Go get a junior wedge and try bending the lie angle to make it work. good luck

 

Stop trying to move the goal posts Rybo. I just said I wasn't talking minimums, already discussed my thoughts in the previous posts. And you are trying to bring up a wedge again to counter me talking about a 36" club?!? Just stop.

 

Should we revisit the driver vs 3 wood length and lie angle again and why you can use one just fine and the idea behind the other having the same characteristics is just absurd in your opinion?

 

Please take it to PM's. It's obvious you have no understanding for the needs of the taller golfers. And at this point it's obvious you are here to only be disruptive.

I, for one, am thoroughly enjoying your posts. The other guy's posts, not so much. His arguments are getting annoying. Please don't get sidetracked trying to defend yourself - it's becoming a liberal vs. conservative like fight that you cannot win so don't try. Just keep talking to those of us who's attention you already have and who find your experiment interesting and extremely well thought out to say the least. What's the worst thing that could happen? Your idea doesn't work for everybody? Big deal. Nothing does.

 

Thank you Vernon!. No worries, I will continue.

[baudi]

Once I figure out if the lengths work for me I might have them MOI matched by a pro.

Good logic. A tough job to get it done well but probably worth it.

[scs1070]

I didn't take the time to read all 9 pages, but somewhere the post seems to have gotten off track.

 

As a 6'6" player I love the initial information on the shaft length and lie angles. When it comes to my own fitting there has been no real "chart" to show me where I fit. My coach and I cobbled together some clubs out of an old HG fitting cart years ago and came up with 2" over standard as the base for all my irons for me to be at a normal athletic position.

 

When it comes to my driver, I play 45.5", at some point it does come down to comfort and simply being able to find the club face.

 

It would be great to have endless funds to be able to dive deeper into fittings to try different shaft lengths, weights, shafts, ect.

[KYMAR]

Really interesting stuff Rybo (and everyone else contributing here) As a 6'4" guy, I can relate to a lot of what you've been through. I'm thinking of rebuilding an old set of Maltby mmbs and look forward to incorporating your ideas!

[rybo]

Really interesting stuff Rybo (and everyone else contributing here) As a 6'4" guy, I can relate to a lot of what you've been through. I'm thinking of rebuilding an old set of Maltby mmbs and look forward to incorporating your ideas!

 

Let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help

[03SMURF]

Here's my first hits with the new clubs vs. my current ones. No grips slipped and no heads went flying so I'm gonna call it a success.

 

36.5" 9 iron vs. 37.5" 9 iron

http://youtu.be/iY-HkvOnhb8

 

37.5" 7 iron vs. 38.25" 7 iron

http://youtu.be/IGVjXQe5ddg

[Golf4lifer]

I tried to go longer last year & it did not go well for me. At 6'3" and a 36" WTF, I went an 1.25" long in my irons. My driver was 46.5" with a 44.5" 3 wood and I was all over the place and no consistency. I have since settled in nicely with +.5" and 2* flat in my irons and I'm playing the best golf of my life. My driver is 44.75" and 3 wood is 42.75. I think I've found my happy place!

[forefrazier]

lifer...I can see that with only a 36" WTF probably no need to go to 1.25". I am 6'-5" with 40" WTF and have been playing +1" my entire life.

[Golf4lifer]

lifer...I can see that with only a 36" WTF probably no need to go to 1.25". I am 6'-5" with 40" WTF and have been playing +1" my entire life.

 

That's where I was fit. I thought it was too much, but wasn't all bad at first. As time went on it got worst. Before this I always played +.25" and 2* up and was told I was too hunched over. Now with +1/2" I'm in the perfect posture. This game we love can be maddening at times!

[rybo]

I tried to go longer last year & it did not go well for me. At 6'3" and a 36" WTF, I went an 1.25" long in my irons. My driver was 46.5" with a 44.5" 3 wood and I was all over the place and no consistency. I have since settled in nicely with +.5" and 2* flat in my irons and I'm playing the best golf of my life. My driver is 44.75" and 3 wood is 42.75. I think I've found my happy place!

 

You have a WTF equivalent to someone who is 6' 1". At +1/2" would make your PW 1/4" longer then your WTF. This is where you should be. This is a great example of why performing the low and high length limits is so important. In your case you have significantly longer arms then an average 6' 3", you would not be fit properly using a chart.

[sheldonjhacker]

Should the WTF measurement be wearing golf shoes, or bare feet? Thanks

[Cwebb]

Should the WTF measurement be wearing golf shoes, or bare feet? Thanks

 

Shoes

[TLT_Dan]

I tried to go longer last year & it did not go well for me. At 6'3" and a 36" WTF, I went an 1.25" long in my irons. My driver was 46.5" with a 44.5" 3 wood and I was all over the place and no consistency. I have since settled in nicely with +.5" and 2* flat in my irons and I'm playing the best golf of my life. My driver is 44.75" and 3 wood is 42.75. I think I've found my happy place!

 

See you are tall enough to consider over length irons, but you have a longer arm so this may cancel it out.

[LCP]

Should the WTF measurement be wearing golf shoes, or bare feet? Thanks

 

Shoes

 

Unless you're going to play barefoot of course.

 

Here's a wrinkle few have thought of. Most of us who are not young anymore shrink in height during the day due to spine compression. For me, I think I shrink about three fourths of an inch during the day. So, you should probably even measure yourself early in the morning after you woke up before you have shrunk any. I definitely have noticed that I have more days where I am having trouble hitting my wedges good when I play early in the morning then on days when I play late in the afternoon. I had always thought that was just because my back was stiff and I wasn't as loose in the morning; now that may be part of it, but I bet a big part of it is that I'm actually more hunched over at that time of the day to swing my short wedges. How's that for food for thought?

[trying2scratch]

20* Hyb. 40.25"

4ir 39 3/8"

5ir. 39"

6ir. 38 5/8"

7ir. 38 1/4"

8ir. 37 7/8"

9ir. 37 1/2"

PW. 37 1/4"

GW. 37"

SW. 36 3/4"

LW. 36 1/2"

 

 

Initial swings are proving to be so much more comfortable! After repeatedly doing the low limit test I found the greatest compromise of length and weight to be at 36 1/2" for my shortest club. 37" felt just a bit too long. I used painter's tape and air to put my grips on incase I want to go a bit shorter, so pulling the grips will be cake.

 

Smurf, how tall are you? What's your WTF

 

Sweet set up, both the hitting bay and new clubs.

[03SMURF]

20* Hyb. 40.25"

4ir 39 3/8"

5ir. 39"

6ir. 38 5/8"

7ir. 38 1/4"

8ir. 37 7/8"

9ir. 37 1/2"

PW. 37 1/4"

GW. 37"

SW. 36 3/4"

LW. 36 1/2"

 

 

Initial swings are proving to be so much more comfortable! After repeatedly doing the low limit test I found the greatest compromise of length and weight to be at 36 1/2" for my shortest club. 37" felt just a bit too long. I used painter's tape and air to put my grips on incase I want to go a bit shorter, so pulling the grips will be cake.

 

Smurf, how tall are you? What's your WTF

 

Sweet set up, both the hitting bay and new clubs.

 

Thanks, the clubs turned out much better than I thought I could do on my first complete iron/wedge set build. The net is in my mom's basement. When my parents built that house my dad made sure he got 10' ceilings in the basement so we could hit golf balls. Luckily I only live 10 minutes away so I drop in and hit balls throughout the winter.

 

With shoes on, I'm 6'3" and when I measure my WTF on my glove hand I get around 38.5" or a bit more. When I had my wife measure my WTF she got 38.5-39" and she measured my shoulder height at ~63". Most of my height is in my legs IMO; I have a ~35" inseam.

[trying2scratch]

Thanks! That's awesome, looked like a basement but not to many with the kinda room. I have the same height and WTF so go figure. Your lengths seemed very close to what I'm planning.

 

Did it feel strange getting use to the new set up or ball position? I guess I'm so use to being crowded...

[vanya]

6ft 6 39.5 WTF in bare feet golfer here.

U.K. Based +2 in my prime now a once a week at best with no real practice 1 handicapper.

Have tried all sorts over the years and have settled on the following now, mainly because I can't be arsed messing around with equipment anymore.....

 

Driver: stock length GBB in upright lie setting

3 wood: Nike in upright lie setting. Stock length.

 

3 iron - 7 iron 1 inch longer than std 4-5 degrees upright. Step down in 1/2 inch increments.

 

8iron to lw step down in length by approx 1/4 inch increments.

 

I have always preferred irons in the ping Ie type of line. Probably because they help me with any toe hits.

 

In summary, a lot of what I have read in this thread makes sense to me & if I was at the beginning of my golf career I would look carefully at trying a lot of what Rybo has theorised.

 

Good thread. I can see arguments on both sides. Ultimately you use what works. I am planning on playing more next year and if I find that after working on my swing that I am still seeing toe hits etc I may well revisit some of the suggestions I have seen here.

 

Good work all.

 

 

 

[03SMURF]

Thanks! That's awesome, looked like a basement but not to many with the kinda room. I have the same height and WTF so go figure. Your lengths seemed very close to what I'm planning.

 

Did it feel strange getting use to the new set up or ball position? I guess I'm so use to being crowded...

 

I don't think I'll be used to it at all till late in the spring when I get to hit out doors and really nail down my distances/flights, have my lofts and lies adjusted, etc. When switching back and forth yesterday, it would take a couple of balls to get back to center. When I would go from the short club to the long club I would miss right and I would miss left when going back to the short club. I really liked how I felt at setup and the much flatter lie angle with the longer clubs, though.

[rybo]

Found this article on the effects of improperly fit clubs. An interesting read. While he's speaking to the masses of golfers, his discussion and bullet points speak directly to the particular issues taller golfers face.

 

http://mikeobarsky.com/why-get-fit/improperly-fitted-clubs/

 

 

Wow!!

 

[03SMURF]

The ball position too far back issue is HUGE with me in my shorter clubs. The longer clubs set up much more naturally in a more neutral and forward position.

[kenstl]

Interesting topic. I am a little over 6'4", call it 6'5" in my shoes and I have a 39.5" WTF measurement (bottom side of my knobby wrist bone). What would you suggest on starting length with my SW/GW? I saw you other post on SL irons and I switched over to those this year, playing them at 37" (to top of grip). I love the 9, pw, gw, sw, as I have seen my HC drop like a rock, but honestly, the 8, 7, 6 irons feel a little short. I am thinking about going to 37.5" or 38" across the board. I am curious based on your chart what you think a starting point would be..

 

Also regarding a driver, I play a 44.5" driver, mostly because when I got fitted my center of club face stakes improved over the 45.5" driver and we settled at 44.5" as we worked our way down. I hit is mostly straight (sometimes a baby draw), but mostly with a power fade. Unfortunately my miss every once in awhile is that weak fade. Now you have me thinking again of going to or over 46"!

 

Ken,

 

The length measurement for someone who is an average 6' 5" is as follows:

 

Average shoulder height = 62.48"

 

Average arm length to grip = 27.210"

 

Shoulder - arm = 35.27" (basically WTF with added hand length)(traditional WTF = 38.91")

 

 

Shoulder height to ground @ 64* = 69.516"

 

Shoulder to ground @ 64* (69.516")- WTF (35.27") = 34.246"

 

 

 

34.246" hand height requires a a club with a length of 38.102" to reach that hand height. This is just a starting point for length only. You may likely need a 1* or 2* more upright club once you check lie angle due to the dynamic move of the swing.

 

 

As for the driver, I'm not at all surprised a 44.5" driver is producing fades for someone your height. It's pretty much guarenteed. The only thing you need to concern yourself with is getting the head in the correct square orientation at impact. And it will take a longer club to do so directly due to your height.

 

If you are wishing to stay with single length I'd say 38" is probably a good start. 38.5" may be better. I found the long irons were just too short in the single length build.

 

I think I will have to try this out on my 6 iron and SW in my single length iron set and then go from there. I am currently at 37" so I will be adding another inch to my irons.

[cxx]

Rybo,

 

I was looking at your chart on the dimensions of the human form and couldn't get the wrist to floor measurement from the dimensions shown. I can get to the shoulder, but the arm links down the the wrist didn't have dimensions. Were you able to do this?

 

I had looked for similar charts of the average human form during a geometry exercise and came upon a set of pictures of the human form with dimensions in a large number of positions. I think it was for architects. The funny thing is that the dimensions were wrong. They had a huge arm span and a crazy low wrist to floor. This put them on the outskirts of the ping fitting chart.

 

I like the original ping chart and it seems reasonably close for a lot of people. It puts me in the 0 length at 2* upright, but I prefer +1/2 at 1*.

 

So where is your human form chart from? Got a link?

[rybo]

Rybo,

 

I was looking at your chart on the dimensions of the human form and couldn't get the wrist to floor measurement from the dimensions shown. I can get to the shoulder, but the arm links down the the wrist didn't have dimensions. Were you able to do this?

 

I had looked for similar charts of the average human form during a geometry exercise and came upon a set of pictures of the human form with dimensions in a large number of positions. I think it was for architects. The funny thing is that the dimensions were wrong. They had a huge arm span and a crazy low wrist to floor. This put them on the outskirts of the ping fitting chart.

 

I like the original ping chart and it seems reasonably close for a lot of people. It puts me in the 0 length at 2* upright, but I prefer +1/2 at 1*.

 

So where is your human form chart from? Got a link?

 

The charts come from a book, The Measure of Man by Henry Dreyfuss.

 

Here is a pdf of the charts, arm lengths are on chart A2

 

design.data.free.fr/RUCHE/documents/Ergonomie%20Henry%20DREYFUS.pdf

 

Or

 

 

 

 

Most arm spans are finger tip to finger tip.

[rybo]

here is a hand chart with grip. Even though a bit larger then a golf grip it has dimensions to a 'grip line'.

 

 

[rybo]

CXX

 

WTF has to be calculated from the shoulder down to the wrist. The hand chart provides a dimension from the wrist to the 'grip line'. Combining these two produces a total arm length that includes hand size. Hand size can vary substantially as the hand gets bigger. Not something that should be discounted at all. It directly effects both total arm length and the minimum required club length.

 

Each body part in this discussion changes at a different proportion, this is why it took some time to figure out the different rates of change for each body part and put together a chart, a chart that I am still very reluctant to put out there since even I only use it as a reference to understand total length differences as compared to a standard size golfer. This is also why I came up with the high and low length tests as it compensates for any differences from average body proportions someone is most likely going to have.

[cxx]

CXX

 

WTF has to be calculated from the shoulder down to the wrist. The hand chart provides a dimension from the wrist to the 'grip line'. Combining these two produces a total arm length that includes hand size. Hand size can vary substantially as the hand gets bigger. Not something that should be discounted at all. It directly effects both total arm length and the minimum required club length.

 

Each body part in this discussion changes at a different proportion, this is why it took some time to figure out the different rates of change for each body part and put together a chart, a chart that I am still very reluctant to put out there since even I only use it as a reference to understand total length differences as compared to a standard size golfer. This is also why I came up with the high and low length tests as it compensates for any differences from average body proportions someone is most likely going to have.

 

Thanks for the link. I took a look at the average person from your reference, and it is right in the middle of the ping chart, which is as expected. The other body dimension chart that I had seen before was on the lower border of the chart for an average height person. That one seemed suspect.

[03SMURF]

Little update here on my new, longer clubs. I got 16 holes in on Sunday in 35* temps and 10-15 mph winds. Not ideal conditions for testing by any means, especially considering how little I've gotten to play lately.

 

Pros:

 

I feel extremely comfortable at address, especially now over my short irons. The wedges really surprised me with my pitches and chips and were immediate improvements! I hit some really great pitch shots that took next to nothing in terms of club manipulation. If I was in mid season form with my shorter clubs I would have a hard time beating any of the pitch shots I took with the longer wedges. I'm very happy with how my setup feels and how natural my chip/pitch movements feel.

 

The full swing shots felt like my swing was on a much better (flatter) plane that helped shallow the club more coming down into the ball. No more conscious effort to stay down through the ball. I felt like I was compressing the ball well and for the first time I was taking a good, uniform divot without effort. Overall, I found myself doing a lot less manipulation with my hands and I was finishing on my left side with ease.

 

Cons:

 

As good as all of the above felt, these clubs are not playable for me, yet... They simply feel too heavy and I do not get good distance nor ball flight out of them. The ball ballooned on me, drifted off to the right mostly, and were considerably shorter. I can't say I'm that disappointed because I knew they would swing weight very heavy, but, I feel like I severely underestimated my sensitivity to swing weight changes of this amount.

 

My next step with these clubs is to get them down in swing weight. Once the swing weights are down to what I'm used to I will hopefully be able to tell whether or not the clubs' total weights are too high for my comfort. If I can go a little shorter and still maintain this level of comfort, I may try going from +1.5" to +1-1.25" in wedges then progress up the same to help manage overall weight and swing weight.

 

After all my proposed efforts are exhausted, I will resort to light weight shafts. Being a strong, high speed player in the past, this has been very humbling experiment. However, it has shown me that there is more comfortable and hopefully even better golf to be played once I work out all these little details.

[bigseanc12]

Little update here on my new, longer clubs. I got 16 holes in on Sunday in 35* temps and 10-15 mph winds. Not ideal conditions for testing by any means, especially considering how little I've gotten to play lately.

 

Pros:

 

I feel extremely comfortable at address, especially now over my short irons. The wedges really surprised me with my pitches and chips and were immediate improvements! I hit some really great pitch shots that took next to nothing in terms of club manipulation. If I was in mid season form with my shorter clubs I would have a hard time beating any of the pitch shots I took with the longer wedges. I'm very happy with how my setup feels and how natural my chip/pitch movements feel.

 

The full swing shots felt like my swing was on a much better (flatter) plane that helped shallow the club more coming down into the ball. No more conscious effort to stay down through the ball. I felt like I was compressing the ball well and for the first time I was taking a good, uniform divot without effort. Overall, I found myself doing a lot less manipulation with my hands and I was finishing on my left side with ease.

 

Cons:

 

As good as all of the above felt, these clubs are not playable for me, yet... They simply feel too heavy and I do not get good distance nor ball flight out of them. The ball ballooned on me, drifted off to the right mostly, and were considerably shorter. I can't say I'm that disappointed because I knew they would swing weight very heavy, but, I feel like I severely underestimated my sensitivity to swing weight changes of this amount.

 

My next step with these clubs is to get them down in swing weight. Once the swing weights are down to what I'm used to I will hopefully be able to tell whether or not the clubs' total weights are too high for my comfort. If I can go a little shorter and still maintain this level of comfort, I may try going from +1.5" to +1-1.25" in wedges then progress up the same to help manage overall weight and swing weight.

 

After all my proposed efforts are exhausted, I will resort to light weight shafts. Being a strong, high speed player in the past, this has been very humbling experiment. However, it has shown me that there is more comfortable and hopefully even better golf to be played once I work out all these little details.

 

I'll have my test set of irons here tomorrow as well to test. I am 6'5" w/ a 40" WTF and found a set that play between 1.75" and 2" over 3-PW.. I have a feeling I may need to modify some lengths but it'll be a good barometer.

[CheckJV]

Smurf, what shafts are you using? Sorry I may have missed in one of your earlier posts.