When do you accelerate your arms in the downswing?

[Circaflex]

I have been watching many instructional videos and a few things popped out to me. From what I gathered, you want your optimal speed to be just before impact, not before or after. How do I get this feeling? Do I start the downswing with a squat/bump, let the arms fall and just after starting to turn do I push through with all of my speed? How do I ensure I am "swinging the fastest" at the bottom out of my swing and not early or late?

[ayan]

I have been watching many instructional videos and a few things popped out to me. From what I gathered, you want your optimal speed to be just before impact, not before or after. How do I get this feeling? Do I start the downswing with a squat/bump, let the arms fall and just after starting to turn do I push through with all of my speed? How do I ensure I am "swinging the fastest" at the bottom out of my swing and not early or late?

 

That is a very good question. I think in most cases, we go for too much speed right out of the gate in the downswing, resulting in less than ideal ball striking and a bad finish position -- i.e., throwing the right wrist angle, chicken wing(s), upper body moving forward through and post impact, etc. An alternate thought to striking the ball with as much speed as possible may be striving to achieve a good finish position at the end of the downswing, where both arms and club shaft are extended towards the target and the body is in a reverse C shape. Here is Tiger Woods:

 

 

It seems that to get to that kind of position with so much extension of the arms (first frame in the animated GIF), you will accidentally pass through a good impact position with good clubhead speed. :) One thing that's been a huge eye opener for me is how much wider the arc of the swing becomes and how much leverage one feels when doing slow 1/2 shots with the only intention being extending the arms and club towards the target and having that reverse C shape. Personally, I am drilling this and I have to start my swings very slowly otherwise I know I'm going to pull or break something. The additional clubhead speed that results has to come from a much longer "effective lever", because the body is certainly moving pretty slowly and in balance and yet the ball flies off the face even when doing small chips. Something you may want to toy around with. Cheers.

[Webby58]

Maybe this will help

 

 

[Circaflex]

Thank you both for sharing, I will check out the videos when I have some spare time during lunch today. Thank you for also attaching that Tiger gif and giving a good explanation.

[juststeve]

I try to accelerate the club smoothly and continuously with both arms from the beginning to the forward swing through and past impact.

 

Steve

[MonteScheinblum]

It depends on who you are. Some will feel the acceleration from the top, some won't feel it until P6....and these would be on theoretically identical kinematic sequence charts.

[Sean2]

Webby, thanks for posting the videos. I thought you either made a swing with the lower body (and let the arms/hands/clubs follow along), or just with the arms (a la MDLT). It didn't occur to me that one could do both.

[Silky]

At first, I thought there is an easy answer to the question that the OP posted, but that seems not to be the case.

 

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I appreciate Kelvin Miyahira's Youtube above as well produced and very informative.

 

The first complication is that there are two components to the independent of the arms relative to the torso, the up/down and the around. From the video above, we can see that the around motion of the arms relative to the torso occurs very late in the downswing, roughly at p6 onward. So the prominent "acceleration of the arms" during transition is the up/down component.

 

The second complication is that of lever action: if the center of mass of the lead arm and club is above the acceleration vector of the lead shoulder then there is a torque at the lead shoulder swinging the lead arm and club trying to catch up with the acceleration vector of the lead shoulder - the passive torque. The arms can also move by themselves relative to the torso - the active torque.

 

Where as the release of the club is mostly accepted as mainly from the passive torque, it is not clear to me the roles of the passive torque and the active torque in the release of the arms from the pivot in the around component.

 

I hope that the information is useful in the aspects of what not to do rather than what to do.

 

In any case, during short span of the downswing, my brain can only grasp a more holistic intent such as swing from the ground up, or tilt, turn and throw.

[juststeve]

Webby, thanks for posting the videos. I thought you either made a swing with the lower body (and let the arms/hands/clubs follow along), or just with the arms (a la MDLT). It didn't occur to me that one could do both.

 

Surely you can move both your arms and your body deliberately, but it takes a great deal of practice to coordinate the two motions. As I recall there is a long thread about how to get the arms in sync with the turn that resulted in no final answer. Most of us around here have a life outside of golf and too little time to practice to keep the various motions of the swing coordinated on a consistent basis. Think of all the things that have to be coordinated. Your hands, arms, shoulders, hips, torso, legs, weight and feet. Hard for anyone to do and impossible if you spend most of your time behind a desk.

 

That's why I firmly believe that you need to concentrate on a single motion that will produce all of the other motions as natural reactions. That single motion is the motion of the golf club, in a nearly circular arc, from one side of the body to the other, striking the ball on the way. Learn to do that and your body will move instinctively to allow and to even enhance the swinging motion. All you have to do is learn to move the club and let the rest happen.

 

Steve

[Sean2]

Webby, thanks for posting the videos. I thought you either made a swing with the lower body (and let the arms/hands/clubs follow along), or just with the arms (a la MDLT). It didn't occur to me that one could do both.

 

Surely you can move both your arms and your body deliberately, but it takes a great deal of practice to coordinate the two motions. As I recall there is a long thread about how to get the arms in sync with the turn that resulted in no final answer. Most of us around here have a life outside of golf and too little time to practice to keep the various motions of the swing coordinated on a consistent basis. Think of all the things that have to be coordinated. Your hands, arms, shoulders, hips, torso, legs, weight and feet. Hard for anyone to do and impossible if you spend most of your time behind a desk.

 

That's why I firmly believe that you need to concentrate on a single motion that will produce all of the other motions as natural reactions. That single motion is the motion of the golf club, in a nearly circular arc, from one side of the body to the other, striking the ball on the way. Learn to do that and your body will move instinctively to allow and to even enhance the swinging motion. All you have to do is learn to move the club and let the rest happen.

 

Steve

 

I tried this on the range today. I found that I was more accurate, and just as long, with a lower body movement and allowing the arms/hands/clubs go along for the ride.

 

Perhaps, as you said, it's a matter of coordinating the two motions...I will continue to experiment with it.

[RBImGuy]

I have been watching many instructional videos and a few things popped out to me. From what I gathered, you want your optimal speed to be just before impact, not before or after. How do I get this feeling? Do I start the downswing with a squat/bump, let the arms fall and just after starting to turn do I push through with all of my speed? How do I ensure I am "swinging the fastest" at the bottom out of my swing and not early or late?

 

when your wrists released by themselves just before impact the clubhead has maximum speed available.

Only works if your not compensating though.

much like throwing a ball as you release it does so without effort.

[naval2006]

I think there's a lot of feeling to do with when you speed up arms, it's something you've got to experiment yourself. In my case I play the best when I speed up my arms right after hitting the ball to a full and balanced finish. I haven't taped my swing so I don't know if this really happens, but the feeling of stepping up the gas right past the ball is awesome.

[juststeve]

Webby, thanks for posting the videos. I thought you either made a swing with the lower body (and let the arms/hands/clubs follow along), or just with the arms (a la MDLT). It didn't occur to me that one could do both.

 

Surely you can move both your arms and your body deliberately, but it takes a great deal of practice to coordinate the two motions. As I recall there is a long thread about how to get the arms in sync with the turn that resulted in no final answer. Most of us around here have a life outside of golf and too little time to practice to keep the various motions of the swing coordinated on a consistent basis. Think of all the things that have to be coordinated. Your hands, arms, shoulders, hips, torso, legs, weight and feet. Hard for anyone to do and impossible if you spend most of your time behind a desk.

 

That's why I firmly believe that you need to concentrate on a single motion that will produce all of the other motions as natural reactions. That single motion is the motion of the golf club, in a nearly circular arc, from one side of the body to the other, striking the ball on the way. Learn to do that and your body will move instinctively to allow and to even enhance the swinging motion. All you have to do is learn to move the club and let the rest happen.

 

Steve

 

I tried this on the range today. I found that I was more accurate, and just as long, with a lower body movement and allowing the arms/hands/clubs go along for the ride.

 

Perhaps, as you said, it's a matter of coordinating the two motions...I will continue to experiment with it.

 

How do you get the club over your trail shoulder "with lower body movement and allowing the arms/hands/ club to go along for the ride? I don't believe you can. You need your hands and arms for that. Since you have to use the hands and arms anyway, simplify the back swing by putting the club over your trail shoulder with your hands and arms and see how your body responds. Try it with a relaxed body and look at yourself in the mirror. I bet you will like what you see.

 

Don't complicate what can be simple.

 

Steve

[XJared]

It's a stupid game. It's going to depend on how you feel the swing.

[isaac newton]

I have been watching many instructional videos and a few things popped out to me. From what I gathered, you want your optimal speed to be just before impact, not before or after. How do I get this feeling? Do I start the downswing with a squat/bump, let the arms fall and just after starting to turn do I push through with all of my speed? How do I ensure I am "swinging the fastest" at the bottom out of my swing and not early or late?

 

when your wrists released by themselves just before impact the clubhead has maximum speed available.

Only works if your not compensating though.

much like throwing a ball as you release it does so without effort.

 

 

 

agree totally. Wrists are free hinges .

and although we feel as though we release at the bottom, not really, as Peter Aliss points out.

 

 

clubhead speed is multiplied by leverage, in the same way flails were used to thresh grain

or nunchaku with a free hinge between two sticks

Egyptians knew all about lag, more than golfers today. LOL