USGA Proposes to Modernize Rules of Golf

[wadesworld]

However I do not understand the opposition to allowing a player to determine the area where a ball was lost. Golf is built on personal integrity, players can cheat any time they want, this is not exactly going to open the floodgate to cheating. Either they trust us or they don't.

 

Because quite often, you have absolutely no idea where the ball was lost. You know the general direction it was hit, but have no idea whether it hit a tree, a downed tree branch, a rock, etc. It's not uncommon at all to find a ball 20 yards from where you're "sure" it was. I've even found my ball on the opposite side of the fairway from where I "knew" it was.

[tngolf22]

My only concern with the flagstick rule is the douchebag who will always insist to have it put back once it's pulled.

 

But he could then be penalized for undue delay, so I guess it will work out.

 

As you are entitled to have the flagstick in or out, you could not penalise anyone for delay if he has the flagstick put back in for his putt. Also, doing what you are permitted to do cannot be "undue".

 

I suspect players will fall into the practice I find common in the groups I play casual golf with at the moment (remember that casual golf here does not count for handicap adjustments). The flagstick will be left in while we make any longish approach putts and then it will come out when we are all lying closer.

 

Players are permitted to make strokes on the course yet still may be penalized for undue delay if they begin taking excessive time between strokes.

 

If a player demands the flagstick to be put back for every stroke of his around or on the green regardless of length, he certainly will be deserving of an undue delay penalty. I'm pretty sure the USGA sees it that way too.

 

I've seen no evidence of this. In tournament play (such as a state am), players are first warned about slow play if they fall behind the group in front of them. This is called being "out of position". If the situation continues they will be issued a second warning and the entire group will be put "on the clock". An official will literally follow the group with a stopwatch and time each player. Each player is given a certain number of seconds to hit when it is deemed his/her turn. A player taking too long to hit will be penalized. This way it prevents penalizing the entire group and the slow player(s) are easily identified and penalized as individuals. After the group catches up they are taken off the clock. No player is ever warned about "undue delay" unless the group falls behind, and even then it's never about a certain action or habit. I know because I've witnessed this first hand.

 

That said, I will be surprised if the flagstick rule discussed becomes part of the rules of golf. I believe it's too advantageous to the player (per Dave Pelz's research) and it coud potentially slow down play as Wadesworld implies. I would much rather them allow tapping down any spike marks and I would love to see them change the O.B. penalty from stroke-and-distance to a one-stroke penalty with a drop 1 or 2 club lengths within the nearest point of relief where the ball last crossed the OB stakes.

[North Butte]

A widely ignored provision of the current Rules concerns lateral hazards. On courses where they put a line of red stakes deep in the woods, totally out of view from the tee, people can't find their ball so they just pick a spot and drop near the hazard line.

 

In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is in the hazard, it is treated exactly like a lost of OB ball. So all those times your tee shot disappears into the woods and you never see it land and you can't see the hazard line? That's not "drop as near as possible" it is a re-tee situation.

 

So you guys aren't really asking that lost of OB be treated the same as a lateral hazard by the Rules. You're asking that lost, OB, regular hazard and lateral hazard all be treated like you do things with your buddies every weekend. Can't find it? Just pick a good spot with an open shot to the green and drop it there. Close enough.

 

C'mon, admit it. That's what you're asking for here.

[tngolf22]

Yes I admit it. I'm asking for exactly that because it would speed up play and a one-stroke penalty is harsh enough for the average amateur. Pros on the tour have the luxury spotters on every hole and officials to tell them what to do. The playing area is so wide even if they don't have a shot to the green they are still in bounds. How often do you see OB stakes on the pro circuit?

 

So yes, if you lose your ball, take a one-stroke penalty and drop as near as possible to the spot you thought it should be. If you think it went in the hazard, drop hear there. The penalty will not detract from the spirit of competition. I think the USGA needs to do what it can to help speed up play.

[Sawgrass]

Yes I admit it. I'm asking for exactly that because it would speed up play and a one-stroke penalty is harsh enough for the average amateur. Pros on the tour have the luxury spotters on every hole and officials to tell them what to do. The playing area is so wide even if they don't have a shot to the green they are still in bounds. How often do you see OB stakes on the pro circuit?

 

So yes, if you lose your ball, take a one-stroke penalty and drop as near as possible to the spot you thought it should be. If you think it went in the hazard, drop hear there. The penalty will not detract from the spirit of competition. I think the USGA needs to do what it can to help speed up play.

 

I'm quite comfortable with most of the proposed Rules, but one thing I'm devoted to is their not making changes which will materially change the score that one will make. I've got a lifetime of data defining what is a "good" score for me. A lifetime of data as to what is a "good" score for the pros I watch. Please, please don't screw that up!

 

I don't care if we drop from shoulder height or from an inch. Most times it won't matter a whit. But essentially taking a stroke off your score for every OB and every lost ball will change things so dramatically that we won't able to recognize them.

 

If you're so troubled by stroke and distance, play match and concede the hole. Play Stableford and pick up. Or play the newly proposed maximum score format. But don't completely screw up history for everyone just because you don't want an extra stroke on your score or a really rare (for provisional hitters) walk back.

[Sawgrass]

If a player demands the flagstick to be put back for every stroke of his around or on the green regardless of length, he certainly will be deserving of an undue delay penalty. I'm pretty sure the USGA sees it that way too.

 

With no penalty for hitting the flagstick with a stroke from on the green, I can putt with the flagstick in. What justification can you cite for not allowing me to have it put back in? On checking, I see that the words used in the proposed Rule 5.6 are "unreasonable delay." How could taking the time needed to do what you are permitted to do be considered unreasonable? And if you are permitted to do it any time you putt, I don't see that it can be considered unreasonable delay because you do it multiple times. Do you have some source of information that makes you sure of how the USGA sees it?

 

I believe it was Thomas Pagel who made the remark in response to a question during the 2017 symposium (search YouTube).

 

I am NOT saying there will be a hard and fast rule. I'm saying it will be up the judgement of the referee. If a player is constantly forcing his group to pause to retrieve and replace the flagstick on EVERY putt, on EVERY hole, it will enter into the realm of the ridiculous.

 

Anyway, on a practical basis, if I ask another player to put the flagstick back in while I am preparing to putt, it's going to be done and my putt on its way well within 40 seconds.

 

I could certainly see situations where players might ask it to be replaced, such as on downhill putts. I would not expect for most situations it would cause any delay and it would be an extremely rare exception that a referee would consider an undue delay penalty.

 

Wade, they haven't published the "handbook" yet which will describe in more detail what unreasonable delay is. But we do know that current player timing systems allow players to take advantage of the Rules despite being timed.

 

Please don't ask refs to add to their subjective judgement requirements the task of determining when the flagstick should and should not be "reasonably" put back. I can tell you for sure, I could not do that equitably. If a player is taking so long with that process that he's got his group off par time, they go on the clock. I can watch them and objectively time them then, but the time they take toward pulling the pin or putting it back shouldn't count against them any more than the time they take searching for their ball. Using the Rules to your advantage is a fundamental part of the game, and IMO doing so should never be challenged.

[wadesworld]

If a player demands the flagstick to be put back for every stroke of his around or on the green regardless of length, he certainly will be deserving of an undue delay penalty. I'm pretty sure the USGA sees it that way too.

 

With no penalty for hitting the flagstick with a stroke from on the green, I can putt with the flagstick in. What justification can you cite for not allowing me to have it put back in? On checking, I see that the words used in the proposed Rule 5.6 are "unreasonable delay." How could taking the time needed to do what you are permitted to do be considered unreasonable? And if you are permitted to do it any time you putt, I don't see that it can be considered unreasonable delay because you do it multiple times. Do you have some source of information that makes you sure of how the USGA sees it?

 

I believe it was Thomas Pagel who made the remark in response to a question during the 2017 symposium (search YouTube).

 

I am NOT saying there will be a hard and fast rule. I'm saying it will be up the judgement of the referee. If a player is constantly forcing his group to pause to retrieve and replace the flagstick on EVERY putt, on EVERY hole, it will enter into the realm of the ridiculous.

 

Anyway, on a practical basis, if I ask another player to put the flagstick back in while I am preparing to putt, it's going to be done and my putt on its way well within 40 seconds.

 

I could certainly see situations where players might ask it to be replaced, such as on downhill putts. I would not expect for most situations it would cause any delay and it would be an extremely rare exception that a referee would consider an undue delay penalty.

 

Wade, they haven't published the "handbook" yet which will describe in more detail what unreasonable delay is. But we do know that current player timing systems allow players to take advantage of the Rules despite being timed.

 

Please don't ask refs to add to their subjective judgement requirements the task of determining when the flagstick should and should not be "reasonably" put back. I can tell you for sure, I could not do that equitably. If a player is taking so long with that process that he's got his group off par time, they go on the clock. I can watch them and objectively time them then, but the time they take toward pulling the pin or putting it back shouldn't count against them any more than the time they take searching for their ball. Using the Rules to your advantage is a fundamental part of the game, and IMO doing so should never be challenged.

 

I think that's a fair point. If so though, they should remove any reference to to "undue delay" in the final rule when ratified.

[Colin L]

I think that's a fair point. If so though, they should remove any reference to to "undue delay" in the final rule when ratified.

 

There isn't any reference to "unreasonable delay" in the proposed rule on the flagstick (13.2). Nothing to remove!

 

The player's right to have the flagstick in the hole for any stroke is unqualified:

 

The player may leave the flagstick in the hole or have it attended or removed, but must decide before making a stroke

[jmkenn0]

Yes I admit it. I'm asking for exactly that because it would speed up play and a one-stroke penalty is harsh enough for the average amateur. Pros on the tour have the luxury spotters on every hole and officials to tell them what to do. The playing area is so wide even if they don't have a shot to the green they are still in bounds. How often do you see OB stakes on the pro circuit?

 

So yes, if you lose your ball, take a one-stroke penalty and drop as near as possible to the spot you thought it should be. If you think it went in the hazard, drop hear there. The penalty will not detract from the spirit of competition. I think the USGA needs to do what it can to help speed up play.

 

I'm quite comfortable with most of the proposed Rules, but one thing I'm devoted to is their not making changes which will materially change the score that one will make. I've got a lifetime of data defining what is a "good" score for me. A lifetime of data as to what is a "good" score for the pros I watch. Please, please don't screw that up!

 

I don't care if we drop from shoulder height or from an inch. Most times it won't matter a whit. But essentially taking a stroke off your score for every OB and every lost ball will change things so dramatically that we won't able to recognize them.

 

If you're so troubled by stroke and distance, play match and concede the hole. Play Stableford and pick up. Or play the newly proposed maximum score format. But don't completely screw up history for everyone just because you don't want an extra stroke on your score or a really rare (for provisional hitters) walk back.

 

So you hit it out of bounds, or lose a ball, with such frequency that taking away S&D would dramatically impact your average score? When I think dramatic, I think like 10 strokes. What's your definition of dramatic?

[Shilgy]

Yes I admit it. I'm asking for exactly that because it would speed up play and a one-stroke penalty is harsh enough for the average amateur. Pros on the tour have the luxury spotters on every hole and officials to tell them what to do. The playing area is so wide even if they don't have a shot to the green they are still in bounds. How often do you see OB stakes on the pro circuit?

 

So yes, if you lose your ball, take a one-stroke penalty and drop as near as possible to the spot you thought it should be. If you think it went in the hazard, drop hear there. The penalty will not detract from the spirit of competition. I think the USGA needs to do what it can to help speed up play.

the tour courses are not "so wide" that the white stakes do not come into play. The pros generally do not spray it that wildly. I certainly hope that the USGA never ever changes the rule for lost ball or OB. Ever. If a player cannot keep it on the course with the club they hit they should hit a club they can hit straighter. And yes, I am including myself that can get a bit wild off the tee at times. But to lower my score and speed up play I do not ask the game to get more lenient. I ask myself to play and think better.

[Sawgrass]

Yes I admit it. I'm asking for exactly that because it would speed up play and a one-stroke penalty is harsh enough for the average amateur. Pros on the tour have the luxury spotters on every hole and officials to tell them what to do. The playing area is so wide even if they don't have a shot to the green they are still in bounds. How often do you see OB stakes on the pro circuit?

 

So yes, if you lose your ball, take a one-stroke penalty and drop as near as possible to the spot you thought it should be. If you think it went in the hazard, drop hear there. The penalty will not detract from the spirit of competition. I think the USGA needs to do what it can to help speed up play.

 

I'm quite comfortable with most of the proposed Rules, but one thing I'm devoted to is their not making changes which will materially change the score that one will make. I've got a lifetime of data defining what is a "good" score for me. A lifetime of data as to what is a "good" score for the pros I watch. Please, please don't screw that up!

 

I don't care if we drop from shoulder height or from an inch. Most times it won't matter a whit. But essentially taking a stroke off your score for every OB and every lost ball will change things so dramatically that we won't able to recognize them.

 

If you're so troubled by stroke and distance, play match and concede the hole. Play Stableford and pick up. Or play the newly proposed maximum score format. But don't completely screw up history for everyone just because you don't want an extra stroke on your score or a really rare (for provisional hitters) walk back.

 

So you hit it out of bounds, or lose a ball, with such frequency that taking away S&D would dramatically impact your average score? When I think dramatic, I think like 10 strokes. What's your definition of dramatic?

 

You're entitled to your 10 stroke threshold. I'm more sensitive than that.

 

But the point is, if you often lose a few balls a round, such leniency would be a big deal. And if you don't, changing S&D won't make any difference to you anyway, so leave it be. As for me, I wouldn't take as much satisfaction on the rare occasion I break 80 if it came along with a couple of discontinued penalty strokes. And in any case, the pressure we feel on a tee shot is enhanced by the strong current penalty. Overcoming that pressure is fun.

[Shilgy]

Yes I admit it. I'm asking for exactly that because it would speed up play and a one-stroke penalty is harsh enough for the average amateur. Pros on the tour have the luxury spotters on every hole and officials to tell them what to do. The playing area is so wide even if they don't have a shot to the green they are still in bounds. How often do you see OB stakes on the pro circuit?

 

So yes, if you lose your ball, take a one-stroke penalty and drop as near as possible to the spot you thought it should be. If you think it went in the hazard, drop hear there. The penalty will not detract from the spirit of competition. I think the USGA needs to do what it can to help speed up play.

 

I'm quite comfortable with most of the proposed Rules, but one thing I'm devoted to is their not making changes which will materially change the score that one will make. I've got a lifetime of data defining what is a "good" score for me. A lifetime of data as to what is a "good" score for the pros I watch. Please, please don't screw that up!

 

I don't care if we drop from shoulder height or from an inch. Most times it won't matter a whit. But essentially taking a stroke off your score for every OB and every lost ball will change things so dramatically that we won't able to recognize them.

 

If you're so troubled by stroke and distance, play match and concede the hole. Play Stableford and pick up. Or play the newly proposed maximum score format. But don't completely screw up history for everyone just because you don't want an extra stroke on your score or a really rare (for provisional hitters) walk back.

 

So you hit it out of bounds, or lose a ball, with such frequency that taking away S&D would dramatically impact your average score? When I think dramatic, I think like 10 strokes. What's your definition of dramatic?

 

You're entitled to your 10 stroke threshold. I'm more sensitive than that.

 

But the point is, if you often lose a few balls a round, such leniency would be a big deal. And if you don't, changing S&D won't make any difference to you anyway, so leave it be. As for me, I wouldn't take as much satisfaction on the rare occasion I break 80 if it came along with a couple of discontinued penalty strokes. And in any case, the pressure we feel on a tee shot is enhanced by the strong current penalty. Overcoming that pressure is fun.

I was thinking two strokes would be "dramatically different".

[LCP]

However I do not understand the opposition to allowing a player to determine the area where a ball was lost. Golf is built on personal integrity, players can cheat any time they want, this is not exactly going to open the floodgate to cheating. Either they trust us or they don't.

 

Because quite often, you have absolutely no idea where the ball was lost. You know the general direction it was hit, but have no idea whether it hit a tree, a downed tree branch, a rock, etc. It's not uncommon at all to find a ball 20 yards from where you're "sure" it was. I've even found my ball on the opposite side of the fairway from where I "knew" it was.

 

 

Yep. This weekend I hit a roof on a close house OB left. Didn't hit a provisional thinking it either bounced back in or I lose the hole and will take a double. Found it 60 yards right of the house on the right side of the fairway as we were advancing.

[95124hacker]

Didn't read every post, but I can't wait to be the first in my club to have a JDM or carbon fiber "Epic" tape measure for my drops!

[Augster]

Yes I admit it. I'm asking for exactly that because it would speed up play and a one-stroke penalty is harsh enough for the average amateur. Pros on the tour have the luxury spotters on every hole and officials to tell them what to do. The playing area is so wide even if they don't have a shot to the green they are still in bounds. How often do you see OB stakes on the pro circuit?

 

So yes, if you lose your ball, take a one-stroke penalty and drop as near as possible to the spot you thought it should be. If you think it went in the hazard, drop hear there. The penalty will not detract from the spirit of competition. I think the USGA needs to do what it can to help speed up play.

 

I'm quite comfortable with most of the proposed Rules, but one thing I'm devoted to is their not making changes which will materially change the score that one will make. I've got a lifetime of data defining what is a "good" score for me. A lifetime of data as to what is a "good" score for the pros I watch. Please, please don't screw that up!

 

I don't care if we drop from shoulder height or from an inch. Most times it won't matter a whit. But essentially taking a stroke off your score for every OB and every lost ball will change things so dramatically that we won't able to recognize them.

 

If you're so troubled by stroke and distance, play match and concede the hole. Play Stableford and pick up. Or play the newly proposed maximum score format. But don't completely screw up history for everyone just because you don't want an extra stroke on your score or a really rare (for provisional hitters) walk back.

 

So you hit it out of bounds, or lose a ball, with such frequency that taking away S&D would dramatically impact your average score? When I think dramatic, I think like 10 strokes. What's your definition of dramatic?

 

You're entitled to your 10 stroke threshold. I'm more sensitive than that.

 

But the point is, if you often lose a few balls a round, such leniency would be a big deal. And if you don't, changing S&D won't make any difference to you anyway, so leave it be. As for me, I wouldn't take as much satisfaction on the rare occasion I break 80 if it came along with a couple of discontinued penalty strokes. And in any case, the pressure we feel on a tee shot is enhanced by the strong current penalty. Overcoming that pressure is fun.

I was thinking two strokes would be "dramatically different".

 

I agree, 2 strokes is dramatically different.

 

Like Saw said, it'll change what you knew a score to be. If I hit two OB during a round, and "take a drop" for each, then make bogey both times and shoot 79, or even, or 69, it certainly will be a tainted score when put up against history. Most often with an OB ball I'm taking double nearly at best, or triple or worse more often. If you're batting balls OB you are certainly not swinging your best.

 

Taking a drop at the OB line will fundamentally lower stroke play scores. In this "everybody gets a trophy" time we live in, I imagine that's what the masses want. To shoot lower scores. Getting rid of OB and lost balls will certainly do that.

 

People don't hit provisional balls because they have huge ego problems. I probably hit 6 or 7 provisionals per round when I'm swinging horribly. When you don't see it carom off a tree, but hear it, you have almost no shot at finding that ball at my course. The rough is too deep in the summer.

 

And changing courses for "pace of play" reasons ruins them. The Lake nine at Lester Park in Duluth, MN is my case in point. It used to be the hardest nine holes you'll ever play. Almost every hole is OB right, thick woods left that you will never find your ball in the underbrush.

 

When they have tourneys there, a lot of low cappers handed in 50+ during that nine, or simply walked in. I know I've taken more than a few 13's out there.

 

But the pace of play folks came through and made it red down both sides. No more OB anywhere. By the new vernacular, both sides are penalty areas.

 

It's still fun the few times I break 40 there. But it's really hard now to shoot 50 or 60 on that nine because you advance with every wayward shot. A horrible nine is 48 instead of 58. While there are still plenty of high scores to be had, it's nearly toothless compared to what it once was.

[North Butte]

Sounds to me that was a right minger before and the red stakes are a big improvement. Golf is supposed to be about the joy of hitting a golf ball, not an exercise in trying to steer it around and keep it away from multiple no-go areas pinching in on every shot.

 

A lot of courses that makes free with the red stakes like that are simply trying to salvage something remotely fun to play out of a crap layout squeezed too tightly into an unsuitable piece of property.

[Rohlio]

 

 

But the pace of play folks came through and made it red down both sides. No more OB anywhere. By the new vernacular, both sides are penalty areas.

 

It's still fun the few times I break 40 there. But it's really hard now to shoot 50 or 60 on that nine because you advance with every wayward shot. A horrible nine is 48 instead of 58. While there are still plenty of high scores to be had, it's nearly toothless compared to what it once was.

 

How on earth is that bad thing...the guy who wins is still going to have to play a clean round. 48 isn't going to win it...but everyone is going to get around a hell of a lot faster without waiting for joe new guy shooting a 68 and constantly reteeing. The spirit of the competition stays completely in tact and everyone enjoys a faster pace of play.

 

Why so many of you want golf to flagulate somebody either playing poorly or just new to the game is beyond me. What is wrong with having a course that is hard to score on, but is not unnecessarily punitive to a new player or a hacker? That type of course will still striate out the better player from the worse, but not at the cost of beating your average joe out of the game.

[Vindog]

But the pace of play folks came through and made it red down both sides. No more OB anywhere. By the new vernacular, both sides are penalty areas.

 

It's still fun the few times I break 40 there. But it's really hard now to shoot 50 or 60 on that nine because you advance with every wayward shot. A horrible nine is 48 instead of 58. While there are still plenty of high scores to be had, it's nearly toothless compared to what it once was.

 

How on earth is that bad thing...the guy who wins is still going to have to play a clean round. 48 isn't going to win it...but everyone is going to get around a hell of a lot faster without waiting for joe new guy shooting a 68 and constantly reteeing. The spirit of the competition stays completely in tact and everyone enjoys a faster pace of play.

 

Why so many of you want golf to flagulate somebody either playing poorly or just new to the game is beyond me. What is wrong with having a course that is hard to score on, but is not unnecessarily punitive to a new player or a hacker? That type of course will still striate out the better player from the worse, but not at the cost of beating your average joe out of the game.

 

 

Instead of reducing penalty guidelines to lower scores, I like the idea of keeping the ball in play in order to lower scores. But if it's all about pace of play then a drop +2 strokes should be fine. My opinion is that nobody will play by those rules anyways.

[tigergs14]

My favorite has to be dropping from any height. I can't wait to see PGA tour pros dropping from 1/2" above the ground.

 

In all serious, I was a fan of the old rule set. There was a benefit of understanding and following the rules. I was proud when I was a kid that I knew and understood the rules of golf.

 

That being said, I get the idea of the new rules growing the game. If this goes through I hope for two things, 1) there are not rules that allow people to cheat - hurts the honor of the game - for me this is more finding loopholes in the rules that shouldn't exist and 2) PGA tour pros play by the same rules - if these are the new rules of golf, they should have to play by those rules.

[Newby]

2) PGA tour pros play by the same rules - if these are the new rules of golf, they should have to play by those rules.

 

They will. After all, they were party to the discussions.

[tngolf22]

All points above have merit. I guess we have different opinions on how to preserve the integrity of the game while trying to speed up play at the same time. I know I have always questioned the stroke-and-distance rule for OB. You can whiff a tee shot, hit the next one 220 down the middle and lie 2. You can hit the ball 220 but 1 foot OB, stroke and distance and another down the middle and you lie 3 but the guy who whiffs lies 2, and in my opinion he hit the worse shot. It's always been too harsh a penalty in my opinion, just like not being able to tap down spike marks (a bit outdated now since we don't wear real "spikes" anymore) and not being able to move the ball out of a fairway divot.

 

If I were living in my own fantasy and had it my way the rules would look like this.....

 

1. Any hazard, OB, lost ball, drop within 1 clublength of nearest point of relief, from shoulder height, no closer to hole (that goes with any free drop from any relief). One stroke penalty for all penalties. This way we don't have to think or argue about strokes or number of club lengths.

2. Persimmon woods and forged irons. No cast irons allowed and any head over a certain volume must be made from persimmon wood. No steel, graphite or titanium heads for woods.

3. Balata balls only. Let's learn shot-shaping and how to control spin again. Make courses shorter and save on real estate/maintenance.

4. You must remove the pin when hitting the ball with your putter, period. Doesn't matter if you use your putter from the green, fringe or fairway.

5. You get a free drop from fairway divots. You can tap down spike marks.

6. The person who has the honor (match or stroke play) may elect to waive his/her right to hit first.

7. Once it's your turn you are given 45 seconds to hit. Putting 30 seconds.

[TheCityGame]

If there's ever any allowance in a drop from OB, really the only thing that makes sense is a drop with a 3 stroke penalty.

 

1 in, 3 on the drop, you're laying 4, hitting 5.

 

You don't get to drop in bounds with the same stroke count as your provisional would be because you've removed the possibility of hitting more balls OB. And 1 stroke is just nonsense, for many reasons, but you don't need any reasons beyond the posted Tufts article from earlier.

[jmkenn0]

I get what you guys are saying about the "historical" nature, but to me that doesn't matter at all. Besides, if it somehow tarnishes the game for you that much, feel free to play the "old way?" It would be just like taking the option to on a hazard to hit from as close to the original position.

 

To me its just "we used to play golf with these rules, now we play them with these rules. It can make the game quicker, more enjoyable for some, especially new people, and might lower your scores occasionally, depending on the course." None of the current rules of golf are sacrosanct to me.

 

 

You guys were probably against the forward pass in football and the three-point line in basketball, weren't you :)

 

Edit - to me the bigger concern is property/people damage at certain courses, not golf itself.

[Sean2]

At first I was all for getting rid of stroke and distance, but as I read through some of the posts I have changed my mind. I can now see the legitimate reasons having such a penalty.

[Sawgrass]

At first I was all for getting rid of stroke and distance, but as I read through some of the posts I have changed my mind. I can now see the legitimate reasons having such a penalty.

 

Not that you need it, but I gave you a "like."

[Sean2]

At first I was all for getting rid of stroke and distance, but as I read through some of the posts I have changed my mind. I can now see the legitimate reasons having such a penalty.

 

Not that you need it, but I gave you a "like."

 

Hah! Thanks Sawgrass, and tngolf22. :-)

[tngolf22]

At first I was all for getting rid of stroke and distance, but as I read through some of the posts I have changed my mind. I can now see the legitimate reasons having such a penalty.

 

Yeah it's making me think more too. I would be interested to see what golf would look like if there were "half strokes". Maybe put more emphasis on ball striking. Putting weighs too much IMO.

 

1. 1/2 stroke penalty for hazards.

2. 1 stroke penalty for lost ball and OB.

3. When the ball is on the green, each stroke after that counts as 1/2 stroke.

 

Just for kicks I would love to see a tournament played with that format.

[Sean2]

At first I was all for getting rid of stroke and distance, but as I read through some of the posts I have changed my mind. I can now see the legitimate reasons having such a penalty.

 

Yeah it's making me think more too. I would be interested to see what golf would look like if there were "half strokes". Maybe put more emphasis on ball striking. Putting weighs too much IMO.

 

1. 1/2 stroke penalty for hazards.

2. 1 stroke penalty for lost ball and OB.

3. When the ball is on the green, each stroke after that counts as 1/2 stroke.

 

Just for kicks I would love to see a tournament played with that format.

 

Well, it would be interesting to say the least, however that is a little too much math for me. :-)

[finleysg]

Golf (and its rules) distills down to this, for me: "play the ball as it lies, and if you can't do that, do what's fair". The rub, of course, if to figure out what is fair.

 

I think for many, that distillation would be more like: "play the ball as you'd like it to lie, and if you can't do that, do what's fast".

[jmkenn0]

Golf (and its rules) distills down to this, for me: "play the ball as it lies, and if you can't do that, do what's fair". The rub, of course, if to figure out what is fair.

 

I think for many, that distillation would be more like: "play the ball as you'd like it to lie, and if you can't do that, do what's fast".

 

I think this hits on a key difference - are you playing golf, or are you competing at golf? As long as we all compete, and abide, by the same rules, the changes being discussed really only impact people at the fringes, maybe, in a competition setting. If you are playing golf as has been played (mostly) over 400 years, then yes, losing a ball off the property should be S&D.

 

I don't know that there is a satisfactory compromise between these two for OB/Lost Ball.