ANA rules issue (Merged)

[CCTxGolf]

Is it possible that Lexi had been creatively marking her ball for some time?

 

A fellow competitor noticed it and brought it up to an official. And then, a viewer clearly spotted it and brought it to an official's attention on video?

 

Why else would an official react to a viewer's email unless there was more to it?

 

I'm thinking that there may have been a pattern that culminated in this also. Of course you do know your going to get blasted for having a different point of view on this subject. Lol Thanks for the perspective

[bladehunter]

Is it possible that Lexi had been creatively marking her ball for some time?

 

A fellow competitor noticed it and brought it up to an official. And then, a viewer clearly spotted it and brought it to an official's attention on video?

 

Why else would an official react to a viewer's email unless there was more to it?

 

I'm thinking that there may have been a pattern that culminated in this also. Of course you do know your going to get blasted for having a different point of view on this subject. Lol Thanks for the perspective

 

Be careful pulling more thoughts from your " back pocket". They usually stink

[BMC]

Is it possible that Lexi had been creatively marking her ball for some time?

 

A fellow competitor noticed it and brought it up to an official. And then, a viewer clearly spotted it and brought it to an official's attention on video?

 

Why else would an official react to a viewer's email unless there was more to it?

 

I'm thinking that there may have been a pattern that culminated in this also. Of course you do know your going to get blasted for having a different point of view on this subject. Lol Thanks for the perspective

 

Sometime's there's more to a story, sometimes not. I did pose it as a question. It seems some fellow WRXers are willing to overlook the infraction.

[Shilgy]

Guys, to clear one thing up that a few have posted. There is no such thing as marking next to the ball incorrectly. There is nothing inherently wrong about placing the marker on the side of​ the ball instead of directly behind. The ball just needs to be replaced in the same spot it was previously. She did not and it was by a wide enough margin to be seen with the naked eye. End of story.

 

Edited as one decision tells us to place the mark closely to the ball. Not, for instance, two inches behind it.

[BMC]

Is it possible that Lexi had been creatively marking her ball for some time?

 

A fellow competitor noticed it and brought it up to an official. And then, a viewer clearly spotted it and brought it to an official's attention on video?

 

Why else would an official react to a viewer's email unless there was more to it?

 

I'm thinking that there may have been a pattern that culminated in this also. Of course you do know your going to get blasted for having a different point of view on this subject. Lol Thanks for the perspective

 

Be careful pulling more thoughts from your " back pocket". They usually stink

 

Nice quote. Readers Digest?

[bladehunter]

Is it possible that Lexi had been creatively marking her ball for some time?

 

A fellow competitor noticed it and brought it up to an official. And then, a viewer clearly spotted it and brought it to an official's attention on video?

 

Why else would an official react to a viewer's email unless there was more to it?

 

I'm thinking that there may have been a pattern that culminated in this also. Of course you do know your going to get blasted for having a different point of view on this subject. Lol Thanks for the perspective

 

Be careful pulling more thoughts from your " back pocket". They usually stink

 

Nice quote. Readers Digest?

 

Nope just smell of made up bullxxxx brought it to mind.

 

I mean cite some sources if we are going to start throwing out more allegations.

[BMC]

Is it possible that Lexi had been creatively marking her ball for some time?

 

A fellow competitor noticed it and brought it up to an official. And then, a viewer clearly spotted it and brought it to an official's attention on video?

 

Why else would an official react to a viewer's email unless there was more to it?

 

I'm thinking that there may have been a pattern that culminated in this also. Of course you do know your going to get blasted for having a different point of view on this subject. Lol Thanks for the perspective

 

Be careful pulling more thoughts from your " back pocket". They usually stink

 

Nice quote. Readers Digest?

 

Nope just smell of made up bullxxxx brought it to mind.

 

I mean cite some sources if we are going to start throwing out more allegations.

 

Clearly I said "is it possible?".

 

I can't imagine why the LPGA would react to some random viewer, a day later, if there wasn't something else going on.

 

Healthy scepticism to an odd move by the LPGA.

[bladehunter]

Hell she could have had a gun in her bag and threatened some spectators ... If a bullfrog had wings . Give me a break

[Soloman1]

Guys, to clear one thing up that a few have posted. There is no such thing as marking incorrectly. There is nothing inherently wrong about placing the marker on the side of​ the ball instead of directly behind. The ball just needs to be replaced in the same spot it was previously..." " End of story.

 

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, but say "End of story."

 

Rule 20-1 states:

 

"The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball..."

[worldslasttwfan]

Chella Choi last year did the same thing, and she got greatly scrutinized for her action.

Why the double standard?

[Shilgy]

Guys, to clear one thing up that a few have posted. There is no such thing as marking incorrectly. There is nothing inherently wrong about placing the marker on the side of​ the ball instead of directly behind. The ball just needs to be replaced in the same spot it was previously..." " End of story.

 

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, but say "End of story."

 

Rule 20-1 states:

 

"The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball..."

And Decisions are your friend at times.

20-1/19

Placing Object Marking Position of Ball Other Than Behind Ball

Q. When marking the position of a ball, must the ball-marker be placed behind the ball, or may it also be placed to the side of or in front of the ball?

A. There is no restriction. However, if a player positions his ball-marker in front of the ball on the putting green and in the process does something to the green that improves the line of putt (e.g., presses down a raised tuft of grass), he is in breach of Rule 13-2.

Placing a ball-marker in front of the ball is not recommended but it is not a breach of Rule 16-1a because this Rule permits touching the line of putt in lifting a ball, and marking the position of the ball is part of the lifting process.

[BMC]

Guys, to clear one thing up that a few have posted. There is no such thing as marking incorrectly. There is nothing inherently wrong about placing the marker on the side of​ the ball instead of directly behind. The ball just needs to be replaced in the same spot it was previously..." " End of story.

 

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, but say "End of story."

 

Rule 20-1 states:

 

"The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball..."

And Decisions are your friend at times.

20-1/19

Placing Object Marking Position of Ball Other Than Behind Ball

Q. When marking the position of a ball, must the ball-marker be placed behind the ball, or may it also be placed to the side of or in front of the ball?

A. There is no restriction. However, if a player positions his ball-marker in front of the ball on the putting green and in the process does something to the green that improves the line of putt (e.g., presses down a raised tuft of grass), he is in breach of Rule 13-2.

Placing a ball-marker in front of the ball is not recommended but it is not a breach of Rule 16-1a because this Rule permits touching the line of putt in lifting a ball, and marking the position of the ball is part of the lifting process.

 

Now, you can end the story. Good find.

[Shilgy]

Another Decision tells us not too mark the ball with the coin 2" behind the ball as if to keep from moving the ball when we mark it. That would be to far behind to be able to properly replace the ball in the original position.

Most common error on the green with marking that I see in friendly games, and in events really, is the guy that rolls his first putt up towards the hole and is asked to move his mark to the side. Many players will set the putter head next to the ball and place the coin on the other end of the putter head. Them when they go to replace the ball they want to move the mark first and go to place the ball in front of the coin. Problem is their coin is now where the replaced ball belongs.

[Swick73]

I'm suspecting one player in her group saw the infraction and was afraid to say something at the time because of being on tv. Score cards signed done deal in my opinion. But then here comes the question to the official from the player who saw it happen. Now some bull crap story about a mysterious email arises instead of the truth ......either way shame on the LPGA!!

[djmohab2]

Chella Choi last year did the same thing, and she got greatly scrutinized for her action.

Why the double standard?

 

White knights thinking Lexi will blow them if they insist she did nothing malicious.

[cohenfive]

Another illustration of why I think 4 shots for this is horribly unfair...Just think about it, how much you are penalized depends on when the infraction is discovered. You are penalized twice as badly if the tour officials don't do their job the way they are supposed to by catching the infraction at the time it took place. If they do their job you are penalized two shots...but if some fan across the globe emails it in the next day, your penalty is now four shots for the same infraction. How can anyone think this interpretation of the rules is fair to the players...

[dlongstaff]

It's been very polarising.....

 

 

 

So I suppose Westwood remarks his ball on the SAME EXACT SPOT every time? Not a millimeter left, or a millimeter right, but the SAME EXACT SPOT......

 

Exactly! I guarantee that every single golfer on the planet, at one time or another, has marked their ball slightly to the side, then replaced their ball in front of the marker for their next putt (not saying anything on intent). I dare say, even Mr. Westwood has probably done it a time or two. I found his comment to be rather pr***ish.

[Warrick]

I don't want to jump on Lexi, this sucked for her.

 

Golf is a self policing sport. You playing partners trust you are doing what you should be, and paying attention to their own game. Golf is about mental toughness, and attention to detail. She was very careless marking that ball.

 

I feel terrible for her, but this was a mistake she made, and the blame lies one place and one place only. The LPGA had to do what they did. A cover up could REALLY damage the sport, and it would have leaked to the public one way or another.

 

I hope she wins a major this season, and is able to expel this episode. She showed a ton of heart, very impressive. No one was playing better, honestly thought she would still win.

 

So Yeon was extremely clutch on 18 both times, world class up and down's. I am as excited as ever about the 2017 season.

[QEight]

You are penalized twice as badly if the tour officials don't do their job the way they are supposed to by catching the infraction at the time it took place.

 

Fyi, rules officials are not there to watch every action the players make.

[Soloman1]

Shilgy and my wife are right - I am an idiot. I stand corrected.

[mjen43]

Can someone explain to me what rule allows rules officials to assess penalty strokes to a player? Do rules officials have total authority or do they "recommend" the player takes a penalty in situations such as these?

 

Just thinking what would happen if for whatever reason Lexi did not believe the ball placement was different and tried to argue otherwise. Especially because one could argue it's virtually impossible to "exactly" replace a ball where it was.

[QEight]

Can someone explain to me what rule allows rules officials to assess penalty strokes to a player? Do rules officials have total authority or do they "recommend" the player takes a penalty in situations such as these?

 

First the referee from the Definition:

A "referee" is one who is appointed by the Committee to decide questions of fact and apply the Rules. He must act on any breach of a Rule that he observes or is reported to him.

 

The Committee:

The "Committee" is the committee in charge of the competition or, if the matter does not arise in a competition, the committee in charge of the course.

 

Then rule 34-3:

In the absence of a referee, any dispute or doubtful point on the Rules must be referred to the Committee, whose decision is final.

[mjen43]

Can someone explain to me what rule allows rules officials to assess penalty strokes to a player? Do rules officials have total authority or do they "recommend" the player takes a penalty in situations such as these?

 

First the referee from the Definition:

A "referee" is one who is appointed by the Committee to decide questions of fact and apply the Rules. He must act on any breach of a Rule that he observes or is reported to him.

 

The Committee:

The "Committee" is the committee in charge of the competition or, if the matter does not arise in a competition, the committee in charge of the course.

 

Then rule 34-3:

In the absence of a referee, any dispute or doubtful point on the Rules must be referred to the Committee, whose decision is final.

 

Okay thank you. So presumably if Lexi disagreed with what the referee said, and decided not to apply the penalty, she'd be DQ'd.

 

I've wondered this for a while because in tournaments I've played I've seen players assessed penalties with the "DJ" rule by rules officials who were not present, even with the player insisting they did nothing to move the ball. I've always wondered what would happen if they just disregarded the rules official lol. Sorry for semi off topic.

[QEight]

Okay thank you. So presumably if Lexi disagreed with what the referee said, and decided not to apply the penalty, she'd be DQ'd.

 

As far as I understood this never went to referee as such as there was none involved. It went straight to the Committee and they made the decision. Lexi could have withdrawn from the competition, but she had no choice of not accepting the result. The decision was final (regarding the 3rd round).

[mjen43]

Okay thank you. So presumably if Lexi disagreed with what the referee said, and decided not to apply the penalty, she'd be DQ'd.

 

As far as I understood this never went to referee as such as there was none involved. It went straight to the Committee and they made the decision. Lexi could have withdrawn from the competition, but she had no choice of not accepting the result. The decision was final (regarding the 3rd round).

 

Understood. There's got to be a better way to do this whole rules thing. This makes me question what the point of the players signing and attesting scores even is if they're just going to be overruled by a committee. Maybe its time for there to be official scorekeepers.

 

In most non-tour/televised average joe schmoe amateur events the scorecard is final but clearly the TV changes the rules. If this happened in some non televised event and Lexi purposefully moved the ball, she would have to live with herself knowing she cheated. If she believed she replaced the ball properly and her playing partner agreed (evidence of the attested score), then no harm no foul. Clearly the competitors who are on tv play by different rules/are not truly keeping their own score.

[DrRob1963]

We do not know the intent or motivation of this rule infraction emailer, who is answerable to no one. Did he/she have a financial interest in the outcome? Is this leading golf into an abyss?

For example, say I notice an infraction (like Lexi's) during Round 1 committed by Player A. Subsequently the final round comes down to a situation where Player A and Player B are so far in front, no one else can catch them. Its neck & neck, really exciting, just 6 to play! But only Player A or Player B can win! Wow! Sponsor's dream!

But I've seen Player A's Round 1 rules violation - all 5mm of it. Who cares if it ruins it for everyone else, because now I can make a fortune!!!

I can bet big, big $$$ on Player B, before contacting the golf officials to report Player A's Round 1 rule violation. Voila! Four stroke penalty for A, and I clean up big time with the bookies, with virtually no risk.

 

This is WRONG! Do we want this for golf?

Phone-ins, emails, fan interventions MUST stop. Scores MUST be finalised at the end of each round. The 2019 rules about ball placement are needed - NOW.

[dxb]

That was a ridiculous call. They should know that rule is broken every time a ball is marked. She didn't intend to improve her line. She acted in the spirit of equity while the lpga did not.

 

Have you even watched the video or read the rule?

 

This post leads me to believe the answer to both is no.

[dxb]

Chella Choi last year did the same thing, and she got greatly scrutinized for her action.

Why the double standard?

 

Their differing passports.

[mjen43]

Chella Choi last year did the same thing, and she got greatly scrutinized for her action.

Why the double standard?

 

Their differing passports.

 

Wrong. Probably because Chella Choi denied any wrong doing and withdrew from the event even though it was blatantly obvious what she did. Lexi made the same ball placement mistake but she admitted it when presented with the equally obvious evidence. Most here seem to agree that Lexi screwed up, but think the rule and application in general is stupid. Chella Choi didn't even admit she messed up. Whether either one of them intentionally chose to break the rules is debatable.

[dxb]

Chella Choi last year did the same thing, and she got greatly scrutinized for her action.

Why the double standard?

 

Their differing passports.

 

Wrong. Probably because Chella Choi denied any wrong doing and withdrew from the event even though it was blatantly obvious what she did. Same with Lexi but she admitted the mistake. Most here seem to agree that Lexi screwed up, but think the rule and application in general is stupid. Chella Choi didn't even admit she messed up.

 

It was a slightly cynical post, however in a parallel universe there is a thread about the same situation reversed, where Lexi won.

 

I can't help but think it's going slightly differently.