US Open on links style courses - booo

[cinnepa]

I don't like these contrived "made-specifically-for-US Open" courses in general. Last year was Chamber's, this year it's this...place.

 

 

 

How about the probably hundred other courses in America today that are a hundred years old that are worthy of our Nation's Championship? Why do they get jumped over/overlooked for these contrived/fabricated courses , for the greatest Championship in the world and that's it?

 

i agree but i don't think the other worthy courses want to be bothered; especially the members. the "circus" accompanying it can be daunting, not to mention the logistics.

[Sixcat]

I don't like these contrived "made-specifically-for-US Open" courses in general. Last year was Chamber's, this year it's this...place.

 

How about the probably hundred other courses in America today that are a hundred years old that are worthy of our Nation's Championship? Why do they get jumped over/overlooked for these contrived/fabricated courses , for the greatest Championship in the world and that's it?

 

I'm fairly certain that Erin Hills was not designed as a "U.S. Open" course. The area was farmland in the Kettle Moraine, a naturally hilly area of the state. As I understand it, very little dirt was moved to create the course.

 

 

Was it not designed specifically with it in mind to bring in a Major (if not specifically a US Open)?

 

 

Even if it wasn't, Chamber's was.

 

FS1 aired a piece yesterday afternoon concerning the initial property investment and development intent. The previous owner met with Mike Davis on sight when they were still bailing hay and hadn't begun to develop a golf course. The piece had photos of the meeting and clearly, no golf course existed at the time. The initial owner ran out of money in the process and sold to the current ownership group, who finished the course and negotiated with the USGA.

 

So, Erin Hills was most assuredly built to host a US Open. I am certain, Fox will re-air the segment several times this weekend.

 

According to the article I read (and linked above), that is not true. Doak had already been on site and had done a routing and when Davis got there, the current architects had done their routing as well.

 

According to the piece on FS1, the only "design" done prior to Davis visiting the site was to mow the hay to show potential holes.

 

Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between. The video may be on YouTube by now. I will look after I am done here and link anything I find.

 

[Argonne69]

 

That pic is actually Dismal River in the Sand Hills area of Nebraska, not to be confused with Sand Hills GC.

 

Which is not a true links as well, only the Bandon Dunes courses are of the ones mentioned above

 

I've played Bandon, and Dismal River (Doak and Nicklaus). DR may not be true links, but it's d*mn close, especially Doak's design.

[North Butte]

The "true links" true believers don't care a whit about what a course does or does not play like. They only care only about geological and geographical history of the past few thousand years.

[jbeagle3601]

We have some great US Opens coming up at Los Angeles CC. I played the course last month and it is amazing and will be fun to watch. Also having it at The Country Club is exciting.

[lhahn]

 

According to the piece on FS1, the only "design" done prior to Davis visiting the site was to mow the hay to show potential holes.

 

Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between. The video may be on YouTube by now. I will look after I am done here and link anything I find.

 

If you have some time read this. I really enjoyed the article, so much so that I stayed up well passed my bed time =)

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/golf/2017-us-open/2017/06/06/making-erin-hills-complete-story/375374001/

[dpmontgomery79]

I don't mind it but it's nice when they mix in other style courses as well.

[ConcentricDimples]

This is an issue of descriptive adjective choice; straight-up, you are on acid if you honestly believe that the overall look and design of the course is not something akin to what UK-links courses have.

 

The thread has failed because the meta-message in response is: "it's not links, so you're wrong." Choose what word you want to characterize the design, feel, look of the place, but you are truly on acid if you think it is not different from other US Open courses, or at least making incomplete responses if you don't address that in your replies.

 

Plain and simple: some photos of the course, if one didn't know where they were, would be assumed to be somewhere in Ireland, the hills of Scotland, or something like that. The monastery in the background could easily be a cathedral or castle in Ireland or Scotland. The place is just teeming and dripping with British-Isles.

[PGArox]

I'm really liking Erin Hills. I think courses without trees are are some of the prettiest. Sure, there are a lot of great courses with trees, but all else being equal, I'll take no trees.

 

I'm a tree guy myself. I think trees are beautiful and, if positioned properly, really compel the golfers to shape their shots. They also provide sweet shade for the spectators.

 

But I also like Erin Hills. It's not an overly interesting course, but it is attractive. I think it would make a fantastic venue for a Greater Milwaukee Open.

[North Butte]

This is an issue of descriptive adjective choice; straight-up, you are on acid if you honestly believe that the overall look and design of the course is not something akin to what UK-links courses have.

 

The thread has failed because the meta-message in response is: "it's not links, so you're wrong." Choose what word you want to characterize the design, feel, look of the place, but you are truly on acid if you think it is not different from other US Open courses, or at least making incomplete responses if you don't address that in your replies.

 

Plain and simple: some photos of the course, if one didn't know where they were, would be assumed to be somewhere in Ireland, the hills of Scotland, or something like that. The monastery in the background could easily be a cathedral or castle in Ireland or Scotland. The place is just teeming and dripping with British-Isles.

 

Yes, it is a very convincing visual replica. Which was the intention, to build a course that looks like a British or Irish links course on television. Well done.

[golfdad907]

I bet the USGA is POd considering the scores yesterday. I hope winner breaks Tiger's record for low total in US Open then maybe we'll keep the US Open played on a US style course.

[knock it close]

I bet the USGA is POd considering the scores yesterday. I hope winner breaks Tiger's record for low total in US Open then maybe we'll keep the US Open played on a US style course.

You mean Rory's that was set at Congo a "US style course?"

[North Butte]

Didn't Tiger set that record at the Pebble Beach Golf LINKS?

 

:cheesy:

[Jasonic]

I bet the USGA is POd considering the scores yesterday. I hope winner breaks Tiger's record for low total in US Open then maybe we'll keep the US Open played on a US style course.

 

Is this akin to golf course racism? Coursism??

[nochct1]

I totally agree but got my head bit off in another thread for expressing that opinion. This makes 3 US Opens in a row without a tree in play. I'm just tired of it.

 

And while Erin Hills may be a great course...not going to get into that argument. I'm sure it is. But, it's an artificial links style look that the USGA seems to have fallen in love with. And then they try to tell us how much more environmentally friendly it is and easier to maintain. B.S.. You know whats environmentally friendly and easy to maintain? A TREE!

 

Trees aren't good for rough or greens. And those tree lined courses that you love were originally created w no trees. Trees became trendy about 50 years ago. Getting rid of them is a good thing. All of the good courses are doing it or have done it.

The people who fight to keep trees are usually people who know very little about golf.

[PGArox]

I totally agree but got my head bit off in another thread for expressing that opinion. This makes 3 US Opens in a row without a tree in play. I'm just tired of it.

 

And while Erin Hills may be a great course...not going to get into that argument. I'm sure it is. But, it's an artificial links style look that the USGA seems to have fallen in love with. And then they try to tell us how much more environmentally friendly it is and easier to maintain. B.S.. You know whats environmentally friendly and easy to maintain? A TREE!

 

Trees aren't good for rough or greens. And those tree lined courses that you love were originally created w no trees. Trees became trendy about 50 years ago. Getting rid of them is a good thing. All of the good courses are doing it or have done it.

The people who fight to keep trees are usually people who know very little about golf.

 

B.S., plain and simple. And, btw, the trees at famed and fabled Riviera are going nowhere. :)

[Jasonic]

I totally agree but got my head bit off in another thread for expressing that opinion. This makes 3 US Opens in a row without a tree in play. I'm just tired of it.

 

And while Erin Hills may be a great course...not going to get into that argument. I'm sure it is. But, it's an artificial links style look that the USGA seems to have fallen in love with. And then they try to tell us how much more environmentally friendly it is and easier to maintain. B.S.. You know whats environmentally friendly and easy to maintain? A TREE!

 

Trees aren't good for rough or greens. And those tree lined courses that you love were originally created w no trees. Trees became trendy about 50 years ago. Getting rid of them is a good thing. All of the good courses are doing it or have done it.

The people who fight to keep trees are usually people who know very little about golf.

 

Nice sweeping generalization.

[knock it close]

I totally agree but got my head bit off in another thread for expressing that opinion. This makes 3 US Opens in a row without a tree in play. I'm just tired of it.

 

And while Erin Hills may be a great course...not going to get into that argument. I'm sure it is. But, it's an artificial links style look that the USGA seems to have fallen in love with. And then they try to tell us how much more environmentally friendly it is and easier to maintain. B.S.. You know whats environmentally friendly and easy to maintain? A TREE!

 

Trees aren't good for rough or greens. And those tree lined courses that you love were originally created w no trees. Trees became trendy about 50 years ago. Getting rid of them is a good thing. All of the good courses are doing it or have done it.

The people who fight to keep trees are usually people who know very little about golf.

 

B.S., plain and simple. And, btw, the trees at famed and fabled Riviera are going nowhere. :)

There are tress on the property but its far from a tree lined course, the ones that truly effect play are the ones on 13 that should be cut down so you bring the gully into play

[PGArox]

I totally agree but got my head bit off in another thread for expressing that opinion. This makes 3 US Opens in a row without a tree in play. I'm just tired of it.

 

And while Erin Hills may be a great course...not going to get into that argument. I'm sure it is. But, it's an artificial links style look that the USGA seems to have fallen in love with. And then they try to tell us how much more environmentally friendly it is and easier to maintain. B.S.. You know whats environmentally friendly and easy to maintain? A TREE!

 

Trees aren't good for rough or greens. And those tree lined courses that you love were originally created w no trees. Trees became trendy about 50 years ago. Getting rid of them is a good thing. All of the good courses are doing it or have done it.

The people who fight to keep trees are usually people who know very little about golf.

 

B.S., plain and simple. And, btw, the trees at famed and fabled Riviera are going nowhere. :)

There are tress on the property but its far from a tree lined course, the ones that truly effect play are the ones on 13 that should be cut down so you bring the gully into play

 

Quit while you're (barely) ahead, buddy.

[North Butte]

Some of my best golfing buddies absolutely adore a golf course with not a tree in sight. They look at Augusta National and imagine how wonderful a course it would be if a hurricane just knocked down every pine tree on the property. They think having to slice an iron around an overhanging limb after hitting into the right rough is a crime against everything that a true golfer ought to stand for. I'm seriously, I know several of these guys (and I could point you to an online site where many such folks hang out).

 

I place those opinions in the same category as folks who believe every car sounds better without a muffler or those who feel that championship wrestling is a sport.

[knock it close]

Quit while you're (barely) ahead, buddy.

Would you agree that in removing those trees the hole would be more interesting as you'd have a chance to challenge the barranca and actually bringing it into play rather than just bailing out right?

[belmullet]

It sounds as if Bogeypro just likes US Opens to be held on tree-lined fairways. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Personally, I don't care what sort of course the US Open is played on as long as it is a great design made even tougher by a good set-up. I don't want the USGA to back down from its tradition of making the US Open the "toughest test" in golf. Call me perverse, but as a fan, I love to see the best players humbled by a very, very difficult golf course. I don't need to see that every week, but I sure don't mind seeing it once a year. Or twice a year, if the weather deteriorates (cooperates) at The Open Championship.

 

As for all this stuff about links and links-like and links style, why not have a US Open at a REAL links course like Bandon Dunes? It's a no-brainer to me even if it might pose some logistical problems. Treeless courses like Erin Hills are beautiful to look at but they lack the seaside feel, the special turf and the unusual weather challenges of true seaside links. Certainly, these first couple of rounds at Erin Hills would have been much different with 25-30 mph winds.. and much more fun to watch!

[PGArox]

Quit while you're (barely) ahead, buddy.

Would you agree that in removing those trees the hole would be more interesting as you'd have a chance to challenge the barranca and actually bringing it into play rather than just bailing out right?

 

Yes, I would agree with that.

[Argonne69]

It sounds as if Bogeypro just likes US Opens to be held on tree-lined fairways. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Personally, I don't care what sort of course the US Open is played on as long as it is a great design made even tougher by a good set-up. I don't want the USGA to back down from its tradition of making the US Open the "toughest test" in golf. Call me perverse, but as a fan, I love to see the best players humbled by a very, very difficult golf course. I don't need to see that every week, but I sure don't mind seeing it once a year. Or twice a year, if the weather deteriorates (cooperates) at The Open Championship.

 

As for all this stuff about links and links-like and links style, why not have a US Open at a REAL links course like Bandon Dunes? It's a no-brainer to me even if it might pose some logistical problems. Treeless courses like Erin Hills are beautiful to look at but they lack the seaside feel, the special turf and the unusual weather challenges of true seaside links. Certainly, these first couple of rounds at Erin Hills would have been much different with 25-30 mph winds.. and much more fun to watch!

 

The basic problem of holding a U.S. Open at a real links course is the dependency on the weather to make the course tough. Bandon is designed to be playable in tough conditions, i.e. generous fairways and greens. We're seeing a bit of that at Erin Hills. Absent those conditions it would be a pushover for the pros. Isn't the weather in Bandon rather tame in mid-June?

[SilverBullets]

It sounds as if Bogeypro just likes US Opens to be held on tree-lined fairways. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Personally, I don't care what sort of course the US Open is played on as long as it is a great design made even tougher by a good set-up. I don't want the USGA to back down from its tradition of making the US Open the "toughest test" in golf. Call me perverse, but as a fan, I love to see the best players humbled by a very, very difficult golf course. I don't need to see that every week, but I sure don't mind seeing it once a year. Or twice a year, if the weather deteriorates (cooperates) at The Open Championship.

 

As for all this stuff about links and links-like and links style, why not have a US Open at a REAL links course like Bandon Dunes? It's a no-brainer to me even if it might pose some logistical problems. Treeless courses like Erin Hills are beautiful to look at but they lack the seaside feel, the special turf and the unusual weather challenges of true seaside links. Certainly, these first couple of rounds at Erin Hills would have been much different with 25-30 mph winds.. and much more fun to watch!

 

The basic problem of holding a U.S. Open at a real links course is the dependency on the weather to make the course tough. Bandon is designed to be playable in tough conditions, i.e. generous fairways and greens. We're seeing a bit of that at Erin Hills. Absent those conditions it would be a pushover for the pros. Isn't the weather in Bandon rather tame in mid-June?

 

I thought the tamest weather at Bandon was in Septemberish. Could be wrong though.

 

Bandon could never hold a PGA event. Not big enough, not long enough, not hard enough. Not nearly enough lodging either. There is nothing near Bandon. Tour pros would absolutely destroy those courses. Outside of Bandon Trails, they are mainly designed to be resort courses which are favorable for high cap ams to trudge around.

[HighSpeedScene]

This is an issue of descriptive adjective choice; straight-up, you are on acid if you honestly believe that the overall look and design of the course is not something akin to what UK-links courses have.

 

The thread has failed because the meta-message in response is: "it's not links, so you're wrong." Choose what word you want to characterize the design, feel, look of the place, but you are truly on acid if you think it is not different from other US Open courses, or at least making incomplete responses if you don't address that in your replies.

 

Plain and simple: some photos of the course, if one didn't know where they were, would be assumed to be somewhere in Ireland, the hills of Scotland, or something like that. The monastery in the background could easily be a cathedral or castle in Ireland or Scotland. The place is just teeming and dripping with British-Isles.

 

Those who have no personal experience should refrain from having such strong opinions. EVERYONE that has played links courses and Erin Hills will forever disagree with you. Anyone with any knowledge of course architecture will disagree with you.

 

I mean, it's really this simple: you are a silly amount of wrong.

[SPrigge]

I'm with wcbjr. Lets see some mountain courses thrown into the mix. Wolf Creek, La Quinta, Cordilera, Fossil Trace, Red Sky Ranch, Banff Springs. High altitude and elevation drops adds theater to each round. Would help the viewer as well. Erin Hills has its own sort of beauty. But I would love to look at mountains all the more.

 

Me three. I said in other thread yesterday that a very high course (Dillon, Silverthorne, (or a bit lower) Avon, Aspen all in CO) would be very picturesque, truly novel for a men's major, and allow a 600 yard par 4.

 

I agree Banff may be most beautiful course on planet, but not sure how USGA (and public) would feel about hosting outside of country.

 

Me four. Love watching some mountain golf.

[Argonne69]

According to the piece on FS1, the only "design" done prior to Davis visiting the site was to mow the hay to show potential holes.

 

Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between. The video may be on YouTube by now. I will look after I am done here and link anything I find.

 

"

Davis and other USGA officials were convinced it had the potential to be one of America’s great public facilities. It met all their requirements for the U.S. Open, from the size of the property to the firm and fast playing conditions to the almost limitless flexibility in how to set up the course.

 

Davis knew that awarding the U.S. Open to Erin Hills could blow up in his face given the number of unknowns and the newness of the course. But there was so much upside he was willing to take that chance.

"

 

 

Hmmm, yes, Mike Davis had visited the site before a shovel had been turned, but as you note, the initial layout was done, and the course was in progress before the USGA ever visited the site. Erin Hills was going to be a big layout regardless of whether it ever became a U.S. Open site. Davis did suggest a few changes years later, but the basic architecture was already in place by the time the decision to award the event to Erin Hills was announced.

[North Butte]

If the USGA had not decided to hold a US Open at Erin Hills, its developers would not be the first or last to build a course in hopes of attracting a major but come away disappointed.

 

There's another forum where the project was discussed from very early in the planning stages. All along a stated main objective was "Host a major championship".

[Sixcat]

 

According to the piece on FS1, the only "design" done prior to Davis visiting the site was to mow the hay to show potential holes.

 

Maybe the truth lies somewhere in between. The video may be on YouTube by now. I will look after I am done here and link anything I find.

 

If you have some time read this. I really enjoyed the article, so much so that I stayed up well passed my bed time =)

 

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/golf/2017-us-open/2017/06/06/making-erin-hills-complete-story/375374001/

 

That's a ton more information than the FS1 piece had. If I'm not mistaken, the FS1 piece began the story with Bob Lang. The piece led the viewer to believe the only thing for Mike Davis to see was hay balers and tractors.

 

Thanks for sharing.