US Open on links style courses - booo

[NoTalentLefty]

Said already Erin Hills is not a links style course

 

It is a link STYLE golf course by golf week golf magazine golf digest PGA Tour and even the Frick'n USGA.

 

I get it, but if you've played links and also played Erin Hills, you would never say that.

 

You're right probably but damn it's still a links style course.

 

If you're playing it through the air, as opposed to landing it short & running it on all over the place, it's not a links.

 

What it is, is a "minimalist, lay of the land" design which still calls on the players to play it through the air, in the fashion of the traditional US Open courses.

 

I stand by links style as everyone in golf is saying .

[HighSpeedScene]

Good for you - courage of convictions is not often enough displayed in this world. Rarely do you see people stubbornly cling to things that everyone knows are incorrect.

 

Good on ya.

[Jasonic]

What grade are you guys in?

[NoTalentLefty]

Good for you - courage of convictions is not often enough displayed in this world. Rarely do you see people stubbornly cling to things that everyone knows are incorrect.

 

Good on ya.

 

I'd do so with full endorsement of the PGA Tour, USGA, Golf Digest, Golf, Golf Week, etc. And your source ? The voices in your head....

[NoTalentLefty]

What grade are you guys in?

 

Good question... my wife thinks kindergarten.

[Darth Putter]

[gbacak]

I don't think anyone has said it yet so I will. Erin Hills is not a links or links style course.

[HighSpeedScene]

Good for you - courage of convictions is not often enough displayed in this world. Rarely do you see people stubbornly cling to things that everyone knows are incorrect.

 

Good on ya.

 

I'd do so with full endorsement of the PGA Tour, USGA, Golf Digest, Golf, Golf Week, etc. And your source ? The voices in your head....

 

Like I said, bully for you brother

[prost893]

Also, some of the old traditional courses don't have the land that places like Bethpage and Erin Hills have. The USGA wants as many corporate tents as possible. And they want a huge merchandise tent.

 

Absolutely. The generosity (who knows how much $ was involved) of the college across the train tracks from Merion to allow the use of their campus for more tents than I could count was a massive step in getting the open to return.

[thug the bunny]

Serious question . Is that area known to have no trees ? If so I guess I get it. If the area has tress then I don't see why the course doesn't have trees unless it's trying to mimick a links course

 

No, look at all the boundaries of the course, it's woods. Hurdzan and Frye admitted they cut down a ton of trees. I have to agree with the OP, putting a links in the middle of woods is contrived. And then the architects brag that they went 'minimalist' to stay true to the natural lay of the land. Well the natural lay of the land had trees. I have 3 natural links along the shore where I live, and 3 contrived links further inland, and they are totally different. Different soil, different terrain, different plants, and different winds. You can sense when things are being manufactured.

 

Edit: Next thing you know they will start putting sea salt into the ponds to grow salt marsh cord grass!

[llewol007]

For me I enjoy the Links Style courses that we come to expect with the US OPEN. Enough manicured fairways. Just like Dustin Johnson said, players like himself, Rory and Jason have advantages the way Erin hills is setup but oh wait a minute, they cant hit the long ball straight. After watching other golfers play lights out. Justin Thomas, There seems to be a evenness that Links style courses bring to the "Best" players on the planet. Keep it that way and let the other tournaments have them on the manicured fairways and greens.

[lhahn]

Serious question . Is that area known to have no trees ? If so I guess I get it. If the area has tress then I don't see why the course doesn't have trees unless it's trying to mimick a links course

 

No, look at all the boundaries of the course, it's woods. Hurdzan and Frye admitted they cut down a ton of trees. I have to agree with the OP, putting a links in the middle of woods is contrived. And then the architects brag that they went 'minimalist' to stay true to the natural lay of the land. Well the natural lay of the land had trees. I have 3 natural links along the shore where I live, and 3 contrived links further inland, and they are totally different. Different soil, different terrain, different plants, and different winds. You can sense when things are being manufactured.

 

Edit: Next thing you know they will start putting sea salt into the ponds to grow salt marsh cord grass!

Erin Hills in the 1990s when it was still farm land. It's like you're standing in the middle of a forest!!

 

People need to stop taking what it is said on Fox as their source of information =)

[Czervik n Smails]

Trees are not good for golf. I like trees, just not on golf courses. Listen to any of the best architects like Tom Doak and they will say the same. I don't remember any trees on St. Andrews but it's a pretty good course.

[thug the bunny]

Serious question . Is that area known to have no trees ? If so I guess I get it. If the area has tress then I don't see why the course doesn't have trees unless it's trying to mimick a links course

 

No, look at all the boundaries of the course, it's woods. Hurdzan and Frye admitted they cut down a ton of trees. I have to agree with the OP, putting a links in the middle of woods is contrived. And then the architects brag that they went 'minimalist' to stay true to the natural lay of the land. Well the natural lay of the land had trees. I have 3 natural links along the shore where I live, and 3 contrived links further inland, and they are totally different. Different soil, different terrain, different plants, and different winds. You can sense when things are being manufactured.

 

Edit: Next thing you know they will start putting sea salt into the ponds to grow salt marsh cord grass!

Erin Hills in the 1990s when it was still farm land. It's like you're standing in the middle of a forest!!

 

 

People need to stop taking what it is said on Fox as their source of information =)

 

That is one small part of the original property, and farmland is by no means a natural grassland. It is artificial. All those trees you see in the distance were probably removed. Wisconsin consists mainly of northern hardwood forest. If left to itself, it would be woodland within 20 yrs.

 

People need to stop ignoring nature and taking human interference as the source of truth.

 

Trees are not good for golf. I like trees, just not on golf courses. Listen to any of the best architects like Tom Doak and they will say the same. I don't remember any trees on St. Andrews but it's a pretty good course.

 

St Andrews is the definition of a true links. It is naturally heather, gorse, and grasses. If you left it alone it would still look the same, just more overgrown.

 

The point is, golf courses should be fashioned around what is dictated by the climate, terrain, and local ecological dynamics.

[drbonesvt]

Ya know, initially I thought that this was just another example of a bunch of pansy arsed entitled self-centered bois chirping about nothin cuz they realize that they just can't show up, make some putts and throw a 63-64 down-

 

However, after further thought, supressing my natural intellectual bias against the pansy arsed entitled self-centered bois that are a growing Sub-species in combination with my 10:30 meds(actually 10:20), I agree with ya Bogie, the Open Championship is the real deal regarding links style, feskew, etc., and for the USGA to "jump on the wagon," so to speak, to try to "manufacture" that type of course is greatly diminishing some of the world class tracks that highlight the US courses' strengths, i.e., the parkland and woodlands style designs, though I don't think of Erin Hills as a links style however they did cut back the feskew this morning after all of the batching.

 

Nice observation!

 

Enjoy the tourney?

 

My Best?

RP

 

Oakmont was good w/o the trees (they cut out 2000+ then again u know that). Oakmont i do not consider a links

[Forged4ever]

Links means next to a large body of water, correct? That's the original definition (linking sea to land).

 

This is correct. Golf was only played on this type of terrain in the beginning, for obvious reasons - they didn't groom a course, they found it. Erin Hills ≠ a links for many reasons that have been pointed out. Erin Hills is beautiful. Chambers Bay was garbage. Though I'm not sure if I really hated Chambers Bay because of the course or because its the first year I had to listen to Joe Buck call a a golf tournament. To answer the OP, no I'm not sick of seeing the US Open on a course like Erin Hills.

This is exactly what I was told way back when so HowITF can Oakmont ever have been a links course??

 

What, because it's up the hill from the Allegheny River???

 

And while there were/are a great number of sand bunkers, these were man made and I don't believe that any, or very very few were once wind swept dunes??

 

Seriously, by the true definition of "links style," Oakmont is not a links style, correct?

 

Or has the definition changed?

 

I long ago gave up discussing this with the guys from over there cuz they're like a pack of rabid dogs if you try to challenge Oakmont's standing amongst the "links style" tracks in the country

 

Have a nice week Gals & Gents?

RP

[mjtoal]

Links means next to a large body of water, correct? That's the original definition (linking sea to land).

 

This is correct. Golf was only played on this type of terrain in the beginning, for obvious reasons - they didn't groom a course, they found it. Erin Hills ≠ a links for many reasons that have been pointed out. Erin Hills is beautiful. Chambers Bay was garbage. Though I'm not sure if I really hated Chambers Bay because of the course or because its the first year I had to listen to Joe Buck call a a golf tournament. To answer the OP, no I'm not sick of seeing the US Open on a course like Erin Hills.

This is exactly what I was told way back when so HowITF can Oakmont ever have been a links course??

 

What, because it's up the hill from the Allegheny River???

 

And while there were/are a great number of sand bunkers, these were man made and I don't believe that any, or very very few were once wind swept dunes

 

Seriously, by the true definition of "links style," Oakmont is not a links style, correct?

 

Or has the definition changed?

 

I long ago gave up discussing this with the guys from over there cuz they're like a pack of rabid dogs if you try to challenge Oakmont's standing amongst the "links style" tracks in the country

 

Have a nice week Gals & Gents

RP

 

Of course Oakmont is not a links course. You only have to see the church pews bunkers to know that. And the greens are too fast.

 

They can play bagpipe music at dusk all they like and it doesn't change the fact.

[gohatters]

100%. The US Open should include the great hallmark US courses like Merion, Oakmont, Oak Hill, etc. I'd much rather see the USGA return to some of the shorter classic Country Clubs than new manufactured courses like Whistling Straights, Erin Hills or Chambers Bay, etc. Tighten up Merion, speed up the greens a touch and let them play.

 

I was kind of bummed when Oak Hill was essentially relegated to PGA championship duties

[drbonesvt]

Links means next to a large body of water, correct? That's the original definition (linking sea to land).

 

This is correct. Golf was only played on this type of terrain in the beginning, for obvious reasons - they didn't groom a course, they found it. Erin Hills ≠ a links for many reasons that have been pointed out. Erin Hills is beautiful. Chambers Bay was garbage. Though I'm not sure if I really hated Chambers Bay because of the course or because its the first year I had to listen to Joe Buck call a a golf tournament. To answer the OP, no I'm not sick of seeing the US Open on a course like Erin Hills.

This is exactly what I was told way back when so HowITF can Oakmont ever have been a links course??

 

What, because it's up the hill from the Allegheny River???

 

And while there were/are a great number of sand bunkers, these were man made and I don't believe that any, or very very few were once wind swept dunes??

 

Seriously, by the true definition of "links style," Oakmont is not a links style, correct?

 

Or has the definition changed?

 

I long ago gave up discussing this with the guys from over there cuz they're like a pack of rabid dogs if you try to challenge Oakmont's standing amongst the "links style" tracks in the country

 

Have a nice week Gals & Gents?

RP

 

The Three Rivers aren't considered on of the worlds great bodies of water ???

 

#oakmonteveryyear??

 

Signed the steel city kid in Texas

[Jasonic]

Links means next to a large body of water, correct? That's the original definition (linking sea to land).

 

This is correct. Golf was only played on this type of terrain in the beginning, for obvious reasons - they didn't groom a course, they found it. Erin Hills ≠ a links for many reasons that have been pointed out. Erin Hills is beautiful. Chambers Bay was garbage. Though I'm not sure if I really hated Chambers Bay because of the course or because its the first year I had to listen to Joe Buck call a a golf tournament. To answer the OP, no I'm not sick of seeing the US Open on a course like Erin Hills.

This is exactly what I was told way back when so HowITF can Oakmont ever have been a links course??

 

What, because it's up the hill from the Allegheny River???

 

And while there were/are a great number of sand bunkers, these were man made and I don't believe that any, or very very few were once wind swept dunes??

 

Seriously, by the true definition of "links style," Oakmont is not a links style, correct?

 

Or has the definition changed?

 

I long ago gave up discussing this with the guys from over there cuz they're like a pack of rabid dogs if you try to challenge Oakmont's standing amongst the "links style" tracks in the country

 

Have a nice week Gals & Gents?

RP

 

The Three Rivers aren't considered on of the worlds great bodies of water ???

 

#oakmonteveryyear??

 

Signed the steel city kid in Texas

 

They should have the tee in front of Heinz field to a green on the confluence of the three rivers. The fountain is a hazard.

[drbonesvt]

Links means next to a large body of water, correct? That's the original definition (linking sea to land).

 

This is correct. Golf was only played on this type of terrain in the beginning, for obvious reasons - they didn't groom a course, they found it. Erin Hills ≠ a links for many reasons that have been pointed out. Erin Hills is beautiful. Chambers Bay was garbage. Though I'm not sure if I really hated Chambers Bay because of the course or because its the first year I had to listen to Joe Buck call a a golf tournament. To answer the OP, no I'm not sick of seeing the US Open on a course like Erin Hills.

This is exactly what I was told way back when so HowITF can Oakmont ever have been a links course??

 

What, because it's up the hill from the Allegheny River???

 

And while there were/are a great number of sand bunkers, these were man made and I don't believe that any, or very very few were once wind swept dunes??

 

Seriously, by the true definition of "links style," Oakmont is not a links style, correct?

 

Or has the definition changed?

 

I long ago gave up discussing this with the guys from over there cuz they're like a pack of rabid dogs if you try to challenge Oakmont's standing amongst the "links style" tracks in the country

 

Have a nice week Gals & Gents?

RP

 

The Three Rivers aren't considered on of the worlds great bodies of water ???

 

#oakmonteveryyear??

 

Signed the steel city kid in Texas

 

They should have the tee in front of Heinz field to a green on the confluence of the three rivers. The fountain is a hazard.

 

Permantti bro's on the turn and Donny iris as the starter

 

"Fore yunzi "

[bushy007]

What you all call "traditional US Open style" courses are actually, generally, the original contrived and manufactured abominations. The result of the post war craze to manufacture in the 'bigger is better' style.

 

Lots of trees, deep rough... You can keep that, not enjoyable to play or watch and does very little to test the complete game. I'll take the new Pinehurst, Erin Hills, Chambers Bay (less dead greens) any day over the alternative.

 

No matter what 'style' you want to call it.

[Augie]

The US Open was once my favorite Major. What the USGA has been doing to it in recent years it is not even my favorite tournament anymore.

 

No...I do not like the choices of these imitation links courses. Chambers Bay was a crap hole with a good portion closed off to spectators and much of it hazardous to walk.

 

This Erin Hills course....it's best view is from above. I spoke with a player after round 2....he said he faced 14 blind shots in the round which explains why we saw so few camera views from behind players. Had they shown them we would see nothing but a hill.

 

As a spectator it was awful being so far from the action.

 

The USGA has to decide what they are. The majority of players accept the once a year torture test. I guess this fits the everyone gets a trophy mentality. In that I mean pandering and acquiescing to the complaints. I am sure they also believe they are reaching the non golfers by having it a birdie fest like any other tour event.

[Joe85]

This was not a US Open. This was like a glorified regular weekly track - the Honda Classic or a Tough Bob Hope Classic.

 

I kind of feel like my free Sunday off was somewhat wasted watching it. That's sad. I'm in my late 30s now and this - well, Rory going -16 was disgusting to me, to be honest - and even last year I could tolerate - Chamber's Bay at least had some water, and trains were cool too, but I just didn't like this course today.

 

 

I've been watching all the majors religiously since probably I was 18 - and more sporadically before that age, and this wasn't the greatest tournament in the world to me, and the US Open, over the years, grew into meaning that to me, as an American: THE greatest, toughest, most greatest tournament in the world I could ever aspire to.

 

 

The post above mine, I think it kind of sums it up for me.

 

 

Furthermore, we can't really take what BK did today and legitimately stack it up against anything. We can't stack it up against Tiger at Pebble, or Oakmont or even for that matter Bethpage or the majority of US Open tracks of the past. Even Chamber's Bay was a tough track, and I loved watching it last year. Something today just felt...off.

 

 

I don't know how I feel right now, but earlier I felt cheated - I wasted my day on this tournament, and it's really a pity. The Open (the British Open) to me, might be the best tournament in the world to win at this moment, because at least that's the Home of Golf.

 

 

Just didn't vibe with it today. I'm off my horse.

[thug the bunny]

I guess we can contest what a 'true' links is until the cows come home (wtf does that mean?). For me, it means you don't have to remove or add much and have it be mainly grassland, with grasses, bunkers, terrain, and wind as the main sources of difficulty. IMO, you could design a 'natural' links course in the prairies, along both coasts, and anywhere else where natural grasslands are predominant. But when you see links carved out of woodlands (trees surrounding the entire course), that doesn't do it for me.

[Matt J]

Play golf and DVR the golf tournament. You'll feel less cheated.

 

USGA is always the punching bag. I liked this tournament. Heck, it played at almost 8,000 yards. That's the direction the game has taken. Same guys who argue the ball doesn't need to be rolled back also hate this 'test.'

 

You can't have it both ways. US Open can be a pitch and putt with putts like a putt-putt course or innovative and interesting with bigger courses and different challenges. The fact that you had one of the longest and shortest players on tour dueling it out today seems pretty indicative that it was a fair National championship.

 

 

[HighSpeedScene]

100 bucks says the same guys complaining would be complaining if they had 17 yard wide fairways at 7800 yards with waist high fescue rough at par 70 and the winning score was 5 - 8 over par...

 

 

[Matt J]

My playing partner today was complaining about the wide fairways. I didn't rise to the bait, but can you imagine if they had narrowed the landings and then the wind has kicked up. 500 yard par 4 playing 600 into a 2 club wind with a 15 yard landing, sure, mmmm'kay. 7 hour round with twosomes. Weather set up for good scoring, but if it went the other way it could have been a blood bath.

[thomas55]

I thought it looked great. No it wasn't tree lined but it was fun golf to watch. I don't know if rolling hills and grassy landscape make it a links course. I don't know if you have to have the ocean nearby to be a links course.

Some of the second or third shots they had to hit looked insane on TV.. The greens were treacherous and when the wind was up...wow.

I think it is good to highlight some of the other types of great courses we have around the country. We'll see many more Opens at the classics again.

[NoTalentLefty]

Great course. Didn't want to see another link style course but it grew on me. Great comments on the USGA wanting to become more commercial event therefore pushing out some of the older standards with less room.