PGA to begin blood testing in 2018.

[Philfil]

The whole TW thing is beaten to death...gheesh. You can add muscle over ten years...steroids would have made him quite a bit larger than he ended up. Not saying he didn't since most of the guys think they won't get caught. A Rod did not blow up and who knows all that he was taking.

 

edit: sp

 

All steroids aren't all intended to make you "blow up". I would think, as many others have already said, it's about recovery, sleep aid, less muscle fatigue, etc. Getting HUGE in golf is dumb, obviously - unless you're participating in Long Drive events.... Because those guys..... That's another story.. Ha!

 

A Rod was juicing for speed, recovery, strength - not beast mode like Bonds and McGwire.

 

Plus, DIET IS SO IMPORTANT when trying to get massive on steroids, it just doesn't happen overnight.

[Matt J]

If you guys want to argue about PED's in cycling or MLB have at it, but that's not what the IOC is concerned about.

 

PGA is responding to IOC and IOC has stated repeatedly that beta blockers are their primary concern in shooting sports, golf, anything where adrenaline can hurt your performance.

 

Guys are all big hitters by the time they get to this stage, they're not taking steroids or blood infusions for a 5 hour walk around a golf course.

 

Ever wonder why they look like unemotional zombies out on the course on Sundays? Because it's an advantage. Distance control with full shots and putting are both negatively effected by adrenaline. So, they learn to manage it either with or without drugs.

[TheGulag]

I want PED's in sports. These are professionals, let them take what they want.

 

I have always found it kind of funny that athletes can get cortisone shots and be prescribed every which type of painkiller but something like hgh under a doctor's recommendation can't be used for recovery because it's "banned". Seems like a bizarre double standard to take. Professional sports leagues should be doing everything they can to help their players heal from injury, sports are more fun when superstars are healthy and performing.

 

**Internet high five**

 

No one has ever given me a satisfactory answer to this. It's all about weird moralizing and not actual logic.

 

Coming from the Baseball world growing up, I know the Home Run race between McGwire and Sosa in '98 and Bonds recorded setting season in '01 was sure exciting to watch....

[JoeyD12]

For everyone who is a proponent of steroids and other PEDs purely because watching people hit it far is exciting to you, I would highly suggest turning your attention to the World Long Drive competitions. The PGA guys will NEVER hit it that far in their lives, REGARDLESS of PED use.

[lopey986]

For everyone who is a proponent of steroids and other PEDs purely because watching people hit it far is exciting to you, I would highly suggest turning your attention to the World Long Drive competitions. The PGA guys will NEVER hit it that far in their lives, REGARDLESS of PED use.

 

I'm a proponent of advanced medicine under a doctors orders that can help these guys remain healthy and off addicting pain killers without long term negative health affects. no one bats an eye when guys get cortisone shots or reconstructive surgery but mention something like HGH and people lose their minds.

[HighSpeedScene]

For everyone who is a proponent of steroids and other PEDs purely because watching people hit it far is exciting to you, I would highly suggest turning your attention to the World Long Drive competitions. The PGA guys will NEVER hit it that far in their lives, REGARDLESS of PED use.

 

I'm a proponent of advanced medicine under a doctors orders that can help these guys remain healthy and off addicting pain killers without long term negative health affects. no one bats an eye when guys get cortisone shots or reconstructive surgery but mention something like HGH and people lose their minds.

 

Agree that there is an arbitrary line - does seem hard to explain objectively. If I can not get injured by using medical treatment (efficient and safe hgh/testosterone cycles), why is that less acceptable than the repair after the fact? Both are designed to be medically directed ways to keep me on the field.

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other, but I hope we can all agree that the line that has been established is wholly arbitrary.

[jubilee_links]

There are a few folks on here that seem to think taking HGH and EPO are all OK -

 

Have you read the stories of cyclists at the height of the EPO era that had to exercise every 4 hours becaus their blood was so loaded with RBCs that they would have a heart attack if they werent working.

 

HGH is a hormone - it does lots of things - its tightly regulated by the human body in normal circumastances - taking exogenous HGH can als do a whole load of bad stuff.

 

Overuse of cortisone has been shown to be detrimental to long term health -

 

Seriously - neraly all drugs have large off target consequences so open season so guys hit the ball further is really not a good idea.

 

Full disclosure - I have spent 15 years workingin the drug biotech sector so my 'drugs are bad' comes form that side as opposed to being some whole food vegan idealist

[Psyber]

Not sure why EPO even comes up in this thread as it is only for endurance sports. Moderate dosages of anabolics and HGH is relatively safe. That said, there is always the issue of a level playing field so I can see why their use wouldn't be allowed in professional ranks but I hate seeing fear mongering about steroid use. Reminds me too much of refer madness.

[ConcentricDimples]

The one comment here I personally outright disagree with is that PEDs should be permitted to ALLOW golfers (plural) to sustain the lifestyle of hitting 2000 balls, lifting, etc.

 

I think if any given player (injuries aside) NEEDS to take an anobilic steroid, HGH, or something else at some point to keep hitting 2000 balls without injury, then that bigger picture is not acceptable.

 

I really know very little about actual day-day training for most pro sports. But I think hitting 2000 balls everyday is just over the line.

 

 

It's like, great, some are physically gifted/trained to be able to that fit some amount of time, and to whatever extent. I suppose then, I feel that if you can't hit 2000 balls and play 36 (example that was posted) without injuring yourself or collapsing, then don't play pro golf, or figure out a way to practice that your body can control.

 

 

An aside (and it is related though not to this thread's topic), if you hit 2000 balls a day, you better darn hit 14 fairways and 18 greens. But nobody does.

 

 

I embrace powerful athletes coming into the game, I really do. I am of course envious at times and resent certain realities about Darwinism. HOWEVER, I absolutely hate everything about seeing Rory and Jason Day cocking up their muscles before swinging like they are a Colonial Musket getting ready to fire, and putting swings on the ball that would literally either fracture the spine or dislodge a disc of an average Joe their size (more reference to Rory; the guy needs to accept his size and play golf, instead of swinging like an Olympic Hammer-Thrower).

 

I much rather like seeing guys like Harman that work within their physical limitations, sometimes have to hit fairway woods into par 4s, and coexist with longer hitters (and pretty well this season).

[Couples1]

Just when Annika was planning a comeback ... Guess not now, better stay 'retired' Anny

[HighSpeedScene]

I work with docs - lots of docs. When my kids ask me what my job is, I tell them that I get yelled at by doctors (mostly anesthesiologists, but lots of surgeons/surgical subspecialty docs as well).

 

MANY of them are on very low dose steroid/hgh cycles. I only learn this from developing personal relationships with them, and most have urged me to start on a similar program at my age (42) as a way to stay active and for the health benefits. According to them, with the right treatment plan and assuming no comorbities, there is almost zero risk and only upside.

 

According to them, it improves sleep, energy, recovery time, and just overall gives them back the body and attitude they had when they were 25. One guy describes it as feeling like you're 18 but with the wisdom and perspective of your current age. Who wouldn't want that?

 

So, I have to admit it's tempting. And makes me wonder if I were a professional golfers, what would be the downside? Now that there will be testing, that's the downside. But before?

 

If my career depended on it and my medical team tells me it will do zero harm and a world of good? Easy decision no?

[Lagavulin62]

Personally I am against any kind of drug testing. And I have been consistent since they introduced it in the Coast Guard in 83. I don't care for whatever reason, don't like it. Of.course I'm not like the vast majority of you guys in here.

[Couples1]

Just when Annika was planning a comeback ... Guess not now, better stay 'retired' Anny

[ConcentricDimples]

I work with docs - lots of docs. When my kids ask me what my job is, I tell them that I get yelled at by doctors (mostly anesthesiologists, but lots of surgeons/surgical subspecialty docs as well).

 

MANY of them are on very low dose steroid/hgh cycles. I only learn this from developing personal relationships with them, and most have urged me to start on a similar program at my age (42) as a way to stay active and for the health benefits. According to them, with the right treatment plan and assuming no comorbities, there is almost zero risk and only upside.

 

According to them, it improves sleep, energy, recovery time, and just overall gives them back the body and attitude they had when they were 25. One guy describes it as feeling like you're 18 but with the wisdom and perspective of your current age. Who wouldn't want that?

 

So, I have to admit it's tempting. And makes me wonder if I were a professional golfers, what would be the downside? Now that there will be testing, that's the downside. But before?

 

If my career depended on it and my medical team tells me it will do zero harm and a world of good? Easy decision no?

 

Do they do it for personal/recreational reasons (nobody misunderstand the use of that term here), or so they can tolerate having to remain standing, hunched over a table for 8 hours a day, and sometimes 10-hours continuously? (You know better than any of us that not all operations go as planned and they are over when they are over).

 

Do they use transdermal gels, oral, or IV/IM? Do they carefully select agents with lower androgenic activity to mitigate prostatic hypertrophy? If straight testosterone, do they need to also be on 5-AR inhibitors to lower DHT?

 

Do they need to take HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors to keep LDL in check?

 

Do they take SERMs or aromatase inhibitors it they are not on a compound which isn't a substrate of aromatase?

 

Do they have to take ACE inhibitors to minimize risk of LVH?

 

(These are all sincere questions out of my fascination with chemical manipulation of human biochemistry, anatomy, and physiology).

[moonshine]

The whole TW thing is beaten to death...gheesh. You can add muscle over ten years...steroids would have made him quite a bit larger than he ended up. Not saying he didn't since most of the guys think they won't get caught. A Rod did not blow up and who knows all that he was taking.

 

edit: sp

 

All steroids aren't all intended to make you "blow up". I would think, as many others have already said, it's about recovery, sleep aid, less muscle fatigue, etc. Getting HUGE in golf is dumb, obviously - unless you're participating in Long Drive events.... Because those guys..... That's another story.. Ha!

 

A Rod was juicing for speed, recovery, strength - not beast mode like Bonds and McGwire.

 

Plus, DIET IS SO IMPORTANT when trying to get massive on steroids, it just doesn't happen overnight.

Thanks I understand was referring to comments how big TW is...he is not. Sarms actually help with what you mention as well.

[Roadking2003]

http://bleacherrepor...f-ped-screening

 

Violators will be publicly reported. That should be interesting.

 

Actually, it's stupid and a waste of time and money.

[Roadking2003]

Personally I am against any kind of drug testing. And I have been consistent since they introduced it in the Coast Guard in 83. I don't care for whatever reason, don't like it. Of.course I'm not like the vast majority of you guys in here.

 

:yess: Yes!!! Me too.

[ConcentricDimples]

For everyone in favor of PEDs in golf, how do you feel about shorter golfers wearing elevator shoes to gain Club head speed?

 

Or shorter/weaker players being allowed to use higher COR drivers?

 

 

If you have no issues with a golfer shooting up 100 mg of test-propionate, taking 30 mg dexamphetamine spansule an hour before they tee off, taking Coreg for BP-control and to antagonize vasoconstriction with their amphetamine, and also provide them with peripheral beta-blocking, inject insulin after their hard gym sessions, take intravenous lorazepam before bed cause the amphetamine still keeps them up all night, occasionally require propofol from the cardiologist they hire to put them to sleep each night when the amphetamines are especially unruly cause they accidentally took some Alka-seltzer for an upset stomach and had to take acetazolamide to tolerate acclimatization to the altitude for their combined vacation/hip surgery at the Vail Valley Medical Center, up their HGH/IGF-1 injections after surgery, come back, and do it all again... if you have no issues with that, why? Do you think this is just part of the game?

 

Young kid with parent at event: "Mom/Dad, why is that man so big? Why does that man have breasts like Mommy? Why is that man standing behind his ball for four minutes and shifting his weight from foot to foot and staring at something in this distance? Daddy, what is that blue candy that those men are eating? Daddy, why did that man carrying the bag stick a needle into the player's butt? Why is there liquid inside a funny-looking tea-cup with a metal lid on it?

 

"Daddy, why is that one man's eyes yellow where they are supposed to white... he looks like that bird from Sesame Street.". I hate Golf. Please take me to a baseball game!"

[carrier street]

I want PED's in sports. These are professionals, let them take what they want.

 

I have always found it kind of funny that athletes can get cortisone shots and be prescribed every which type of painkiller but something like hgh under a doctor's recommendation can't be used for recovery because it's "banned". Seems like a bizarre double standard to take. Professional sports leagues should be doing everything they can to help their players heal from injury, sports are more fun when superstars are healthy and performing.

 

**Internet high five**

 

No one has ever given me a satisfactory answer to this. It's all about weird moralizing and not actual logic.

 

Because one guy takes something, then the next guy takes something more, then the next guy takes more and everyone ends up dead aged 40. Jeez I dread to think what your IQ is.

 

That wind sound was the point flying over your head. The point is why is that the line? Why are opioids, the abuse of which are an epidemic on American society, alright? Why is a Cortisone shot, which is an anti-inflmatory injection that is a great way to play through pain and do further damage to a joint, less of a performance enhancer than HGH? All of these, and even **GASP** steroids are prescribed by doctors to aid people in recovering from an injury. It is patently stupid that professional sports leagues and international sports associations (historically the most moral groups on the planet) have decided what is an ok way to recover from an injury and what is not. Track and field and cycling have been chemistry experiments forever. That's why no one cares about them. A bunch of baseball writers got the goddamn vapors over steroids because Barry Bonds was a jerk to them, and suddenly what was a flaw in their collective bargaining agreement (or a law enforcement issue if they were getting those horse roids illegally) requires a Senate hearing.

 

TL;DR You missed the point, but somehow still managed to prove it by making an illogical argument.

[Les Strokes]

I want PED's in sports. These are professionals, let them take what they want.

 

I have always found it kind of funny that athletes can get cortisone shots and be prescribed every which type of painkiller but something like hgh under a doctor's recommendation can't be used for recovery because it's "banned". Seems like a bizarre double standard to take. Professional sports leagues should be doing everything they can to help their players heal from injury, sports are more fun when superstars are healthy and performing.

 

**Internet high five**

 

No one has ever given me a satisfactory answer to this. It's all about weird moralizing and not actual logic.

 

Coming from the Baseball world growing up, I know the Home Run race between McGwire and Sosa in '98 and Bonds recorded setting season in '01 was sure exciting to watch....

 

yeah I enjoyed that too, like many others. But when we found out they were cheaters, what happened then? The interest in who was the Home Run King died with it, just a relative fraction pay attention to who wins the crown each year now. And the revelations about McWire, Sosa, Bonds, etc - this is where they lost many peoples respect.

[wjdpar1]

Personally I am against any kind of drug testing. And I have been consistent since they introduced it in the Coast Guard in 83. I don't care for whatever reason, don't like it. Of.course I'm not like the vast majority of you guys in here.

 

:yess: Yes!!! Me too.

Me too.

[Roadking2003]

Young kid with parent at event: "Mom/Dad, why is that man so big? Why does that man have breasts like Mommy? Why is that man standing behind his ball for four minutes and shifting his weight from foot to foot and staring at something in this distance? Daddy, what is that blue candy that those men are eating? Daddy, why did that man carrying the bag stick a needle into the player's butt? Why is there liquid inside a funny-looking tea-cup with a metal lid on it?

 

"Daddy, why is that one man's eyes yellow where they are supposed to white... he looks like that bird from Sesame Street.". I hate Golf. Please take me to a baseball game!"

 

If you need the PGA Tour to help you teach your children the dangers of drug abuse, you have big problems.

[scotee]

I work with docs - lots of docs. When my kids ask me what my job is, I tell them that I get yelled at by doctors (mostly anesthesiologists, but lots of surgeons/surgical subspecialty docs as well).

 

MANY of them are on very low dose steroid/hgh cycles. I only learn this from developing personal relationships with them, and most have urged me to start on a similar program at my age (42) as a way to stay active and for the health benefits. According to them, with the right treatment plan and assuming no comorbities, there is almost zero risk and only upside.

 

According to them, it improves sleep, energy, recovery time, and just overall gives them back the body and attitude they had when they were 25. One guy describes it as feeling like you're 18 but with the wisdom and perspective of your current age. Who wouldn't want that?

 

So, I have to admit it's tempting. And makes me wonder if I were a professional golfers, what would be the downside? Now that there will be testing, that's the downside. But before?

 

If my career depended on it and my medical team tells me it will do zero harm and a world of good? Easy decision no?

 

 

[KirkNo-yes]

Not sure why people brought cycling into this. Most if not all of those deaths were EPO related and it was during a period of time people didn't know how to dose. They had heart attacks in the middle of the night because their blood was so thick it would stop their heart. Cyclists then started getting up in the middle of the night to go on walks to thin it out. the most recent deaths in cycling have been associated to Blow and suicide. Most likely depression from the brain injuries they have had from the tons of concussions from wrecking. The people who die from PED's are the people who go outside the recommended dosing and think it cant happen to them. not advocating doping but just saying...don't bring cycling into this

[JoeyD12]

For everyone who is a proponent of steroids and other PEDs purely because watching people hit it far is exciting to you, I would highly suggest turning your attention to the World Long Drive competitions. The PGA guys will NEVER hit it that far in their lives, REGARDLESS of PED use.

 

I'm a proponent of advanced medicine under a doctors orders that can help these guys remain healthy and off addicting pain killers without long term negative health affects. no one bats an eye when guys get cortisone shots or reconstructive surgery but mention something like HGH and people lose their minds.

 

I don't think anyone is against healthy use of medication..... I thought we were talking about PEDs.... Not the same thing

[JoeyD12]

For everyone who is a proponent of steroids and other PEDs purely because watching people hit it far is exciting to you, I would highly suggest turning your attention to the World Long Drive competitions. The PGA guys will NEVER hit it that far in their lives, REGARDLESS of PED use.

 

I'm a proponent of advanced medicine under a doctors orders that can help these guys remain healthy and off addicting pain killers without long term negative health affects. no one bats an eye when guys get cortisone shots or reconstructive surgery but mention something like HGH and people lose their minds.

 

Agree that there is an arbitrary line - does seem hard to explain objectively. If I can not get injured by using medical treatment (efficient and safe hgh/testosterone cycles), why is that less acceptable than the repair after the fact? Both are designed to be medically directed ways to keep me on the field.

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other, but I hope we can all agree that the line that has been established is wholly arbitrary.

 

No. The line is quite clear. If you use a performance enhancing drug when you are healthy and not injured, you are trying to get an unfair advantage over your fellow competitors and some might call you a B.

[HighSpeedScene]

For everyone who is a proponent of steroids and other PEDs purely because watching people hit it far is exciting to you, I would highly suggest turning your attention to the World Long Drive competitions. The PGA guys will NEVER hit it that far in their lives, REGARDLESS of PED use.

 

I'm a proponent of advanced medicine under a doctors orders that can help these guys remain healthy and off addicting pain killers without long term negative health affects. no one bats an eye when guys get cortisone shots or reconstructive surgery but mention something like HGH and people lose their minds.

 

Agree that there is an arbitrary line - does seem hard to explain objectively. If I can not get injured by using medical treatment (efficient and safe hgh/testosterone cycles), why is that less acceptable than the repair after the fact? Both are designed to be medically directed ways to keep me on the field.

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other, but I hope we can all agree that the line that has been established is wholly arbitrary.

 

No. The line is quite clear. If you use a performance enhancing drug when you are healthy and not injured, you are trying to get an unfair advantage over your fellow competitors and some might call you a B.

 

Obviously not the line I meant...

[Southernman_67]

I want PED's in sports. These are professionals, let them take what they want.

 

I have always found it kind of funny that athletes can get cortisone shots and be prescribed every which type of painkiller but something like hgh under a doctor's recommendation can't be used for recovery because it's "banned". Seems like a bizarre double standard to take. Professional sports leagues should be doing everything they can to help their players heal from injury, sports are more fun when superstars are healthy and performing.

 

I may be mistaken, but I believe the use of HGH is legal for a player to assist in recovery from an injury, but it has to be out of their system before resuming competition. That could still promote quicker healing and a quicker return to practice while it clears the system.

[ebrasmus21]

The one comment here I personally outright disagree with is that PEDs should be permitted to ALLOW golfers (plural) to sustain the lifestyle of hitting 2000 balls, lifting, etc.

 

I think if any given player (injuries aside) NEEDS to take an anobilic steroid, HGH, or something else at some point to keep hitting 2000 balls without injury, then that bigger picture is not acceptable.

 

I really know very little about actual day-day training for most pro sports. But I think hitting 2000 balls everyday is just over the line.

 

 

It's like, great, some are physically gifted/trained to be able to that fit some amount of time, and to whatever extent. I suppose then, I feel that if you can't hit 2000 balls and play 36 (example that was posted) without injuring yourself or collapsing, then don't play pro golf, or figure out a way to practice that your body can control.

 

 

An aside (and it is related though not to this thread's topic), if you hit 2000 balls a day, you better darn hit 14 fairways and 18 greens. But nobody does.

 

 

I embrace powerful athletes coming into the game, I really do. I am of course envious at times and resent certain realities about Darwinism. HOWEVER, I absolutely hate everything about seeing Rory and Jason Day cocking up their muscles before swinging like they are a Colonial Musket getting ready to fire, and putting swings on the ball that would literally either fracture the spine or dislodge a disc of an average Joe their size (more reference to Rory; the guy needs to accept his size and play golf, instead of swinging like an Olympic Hammer-Thrower).

 

I much rather like seeing guys like Harman that work within their physical limitations, sometimes have to hit fairway woods into par 4s, and coexist with longer hitters (and pretty well this season).

 

Maybe they only hit 800 balls a day. I'm not really sure on the number of balls, specifically speaking. I sincerely apologize for throwing out such a specific number such as 2000 practice balls. I do know a former D1 collegiate player that hit 1,000 balls a day.... Should we keep talking about range balls?

 

I also made it pretty clear that my prospective is selfish as a golf consumer - I want to see what I want to see and that's Rory and DJ and Jason. I'm not captivated by Harmon in any way.

 

You lost me at Rory "cocking up his muscles" I have no idea what that means. The dude is 5-foot-nothin and weights 160lbs. That makes him JUST big enough to play defensive back in high school....

[ConcentricDimples]

 

You lost me at Rory "cocking up his muscles" I have no idea what that means. The dude is 5-foot-nothin and weights 160lbs. That makes him JUST big enough to play defensive back in high school....

 

When Rory addresses the ball for a full swing, he stands there, then pauses and changes the confirmation of his shoulders/upper-arms/head just a touch, like he's positioning himself for the (in my opinion) overpowered mess his swing is. It's like he's cocking a colonial musket, or loading up a slingshot. Perhaps setting a mouse trap.

 

His swing is in the "red zone" like a car. I know nothing about cars, but in Fast and Furious sometimes the cars broke down after just one race because the RPMs were too high.

 

the guy is going to swing his spine out. One of these days, something is going to snap, crackle, or pop in his spine.

 

 

 

But about the range Balls, whether it's 2000 or 500 a day, justifying PED to simply allow golfers to keep doing that, in my opinion--means that golf isn't a good career choice for someone.

 

There are a lot of different jobs I bet a lot of the forum members could do with various drugs, but not do without them. Does that mean we should take drugs to be able to do some kind of work we otherwise aren't cut out for?