If the economy......

[MtlJeff]

My older son loves golf but managed four rounds in three years due to career path (IT). A friend in his 40s was almost scratch but traded play and practice for career (Finance)and family years ago. Another friend in his 50s made great striides, getting down to a 4 h/c working part time (Medical) but demand for his services exploded and his game went sideways.

 

 

I'm retired, devoted to golf and play ok despite 200-yard drives. I see a lot of people who love a game they can't develop due to time constraints, which tenuously links their participation/enjoyment to friends who play rather than skills, and others whose skills atrophy as they attempt to secure a reasonable future. I'm sure golf will be fine but I think there's is a real and growing income disparity and if I were 30 I'd concern myself with my future and wouldn't give golf a moment's notice.

 

I know this comment is coming from a good place, but as a 31 year old, I kind of take offense to your last line. That being said, I am always looking for and considering the wisdom of those who have "been there, done that."

 

I am fortunate, but also far from alone, in my situation: a good, stable, modest job. Got married last year, bought a house this year in a nice town. No debt other than the mortgage, no kids yet (which I know will significantly change the equation). Golf is my one hobby with any cost, and is also a passion and how I stay close with some of my best friends.

 

My overall golf budget for any given year is right around $1,000. That's for rounds, equipment, etc. This year, I'll end up around $850 for 19 rounds. If I take a buddies golf trip, that would be additional. That's a pretty comfortable number that doesn't stress me financially. Some friends who make more than me spend a little more on their golf. Good for them.

 

So I would ask, how exactly should my friends and I be concerning myself with our futures instead of playing a $45-$70 round twice (hopefully) a month during the season?

 

Honestly if you have a group of friends that all want to continue playing together and aren't too picky about where to do it, it's relatively easy to play golf affordably where i live, and i'm sure it's like that most places. Several public courses will do pretty attractive 20-30 round packages. You could probably play 50 rounds in a summer for roughly 2500$ at decent courses. Let's say you make 75K , in Quebec's communis....i mean, very fair tax system, you'd take home 40K or so. In the end that's 6% of your take home, it's a good chunk but if you love golf its very manageable and 50 rounds is still a LOT of golf

 

The challenge for many is when you get into your 30's your friends start dropping like characters in a horror movie. They have kids, and trust me, some of your friends say they will keep playing....they won't. The amount of guys who truly will play 40-50 times with kids and jobs and etc....is very small.

 

So you end up joining a club, which is when in many markets, it gets expensive. Around here a cheap membership for a 40yr old man is 4500-5000$ all in (taxes, locker room fees etc). And that is before a 500$+ minimum bar bill. You are probably spending 6000$ on the low end all in

 

Now it's a bit more significant. Hell you could make 120K a year which our very handsome and photogenic PM considers wealthy (and is a good salary of course). You take home 60K of that after writing our excellent government a cheque. And now golf is costing 10% of your take home pay.

 

Honestly , with a family that is a big, big chunk. And you probably ARE better served, at least around here, by joining a flag football league and spending the difference on your family and retirement.

 

I think about this all the time

[chickenpotpie]

This isn't a political thread so don't start with that BS.

 

The economy is back on the rise. You can't deny it. Hopefully it keeps going that way. If it does, what do you think that will mean for the Golf industry? I know a lot of PGAs left the biz because of the crash that happened so should this newly revived economy be good for those that stuck around and those that want to get into it in a few years?

 

Not a political response; no emotion, just facts:

 

The economy is growing very slow minus energy. This marginal growth has come at a huge cost, for which we're all going to pay the price.

 

Since '09 the Federal Reserve has forced asset prices higher through near zero bound interest rates, QE1/2/3, Tarp, Harp, bailouts and other bank supports to the tune of $33 trillion. The economy grew $2.64 trillion in the same period as this spending. So, [we] got $1 growth for every $12.50 spent; how's that for a ROI?

 

Most thinking people know how this madness ends. And, it won't be good for any industry.

 

Thank you for saving me the time to post something along these lines.

 

Is the economy really "back on the rise?"

[teejaywhy]

 

I also think it's only a matter of time before the ummm, socially conscious part of society starts singling out golf as a poor use of land and resources that caters primarily to the wealthy, and starts asking for more open parks for joggers or soccer fields instead

 

It's already happening. Golf has been villainized for the last decade plus by the "socially conscious," misrepresented by distortions and outright fabrications. I believe the lack of participation in the sport by millennials is due in large part by the lies of the golf-hating agenda.

[8thehardway]

Economy and wages are 2 separate things.

Within the scope of this discussion I think that one is a subset of the other; i.e., wages determine the extent someone can participate in the economy.

[bscinstnct]

10% of Americans play at least one round per year.

 

78% are men

 

83% of golfers are over 40.

 

5% of golfers under are under 30.

 

Obviosly, very few Americans play golf in youth. Most pick it up as they get toward older. 37% are over 60.

 

The question is whether the same number of Americans, 95% of whom never played under 30, continue to pick it up as they age.

 

Hard to say really.

 

https://www.statisticbrain.com/golf-player-demographic-statistics/

 

[MtlJeff]

I also think it's only a matter of time before the ummm, socially conscious part of society starts singling out golf as a poor use of land and resources that caters primarily to the wealthy, and starts asking for more open parks for joggers or soccer fields instead

 

It's already happening. Golf has been villainized for the last decade plus by the "socially conscious," misrepresented by distortions and outright fabrications. I believe the lack of participation in the sport by millennials is due in large part by the lies of the golf-hating agenda.

 

I love golf, but i don't dispute that it's a poor use of resources. There's a course around here that's very hilly, a beautiful layout. If the city bought it (golf courses are cheap now) and turned it into a park for jogging, walking dogs, added a couple of soccer fields etc. My guess is the property values in the area would be a lot higher than they are now. People are willing to pay a LOT more for houses that are near parks and green areas, especially young families. And that would mean more tax dollars for the city in the long run

 

Maybe i'm wrong, it's possible i am. But i don't see the value of a golf course in the heart of a suburb for example, these days.

 

I don't think more overpriced condos are the answer either mind you....

 

But a green area. Home buyers love that stuff

[8thehardway]

My older son loves golf but managed four rounds in three years due to career path (IT). A friend in his 40s was almost scratch but traded play and practice for career (Finance)and family years ago. Another friend in his 50s made great striides, getting down to a 4 h/c working part time (Medical) but demand for his services exploded and his game went sideways.

 

 

I'm retired, devoted to golf and play ok despite 200-yard drives. I see a lot of people who love a game they can't develop due to time constraints, which tenuously links their participation/enjoyment to friends who play rather than skills, and others whose skills atrophy as they attempt to secure a reasonable future. I'm sure golf will be fine but I think there's is a real and growing income disparity and if I were 30 I'd concern myself with my future and wouldn't give golf a moment's notice.

 

I know this comment is coming from a good place, but as a 31 year old, I kind of take offense to your last line. That being said, I am always looking for and considering the wisdom of those who have "been there, done that."

 

I am fortunate, but also far from alone, in my situation: a good, stable, modest job. Got married last yeasr, bought a house this year in a nice town. No debt other than the mortgage, no kids yet (which I know will significantly change the equation). Golf is my one hobby with any cost, and is also a passion and how I stay close with some of my best friends.

 

My overall golf budget for any given year is right around $1,000. That's for rounds, equipment, etc. This year, I'll end up around $850 for 19 rounds. If I take a buddies golf trip, that would be additional. That's a pretty comfortable number that doesn't stress me financially. Some friends who make more than me spend a little more on their golf. Good for them.

 

So I would ask, how exactly should my friends and I be concerning myself with our futures instead of playing a $45-$70 round twice (hopefully) a month during the season?

 

I didn't intend that sentiment as proscriptive; I should have mentioned that I entered the work force with no marketable skills and at 30 had no prospect of a secure career. Additionally, I never put much faith in the sustainability of the corporate 'cradle to grave' philosophy that was prevalent at the time.

Had I studied something other than Philosophy and Sociology life might have been more predictable but I was envisioning my relatively unskilled, financially paranoid self rather than the larger community when I penned that last sentence and apologize for not clarifying the underpinnings. FWIW I became a consultant, started an agency, then married a spectacular person and things worked out.

 

The one experience I can share that may be useful is something my wife said when I was complaining about tortuous negotiations with a major client... "no problems, no business." It made a radical change in my expectations and significantly improved my general outlook; these days I'd translate that as 'no bogies, no golf.'

 

Best wishes in your game and for your future.

[Jwin323]

Don’t know if it’s economy related but a lot of courses around here are being closed. Land is too valuable to developers.