The primary anti-roll back the ball argument

[North Texas]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

 

 

Augusta mows the fairways from the green to the tee so tee shots get less roll. They also water the fairways a lot, to the point where I have seen guys complaining about getting mud on the ball when they haven't had any recent rainfall. Not sure if they are still watering that much.

 

I would like to see the average drive in the US Open compared to the average in regular tour events. I would bet drives are going at least 10 yards farther in the US Open.

 

84 are currently averaging 300+.

26 are currently averaging 310+.

7 are currently averaging 300+.

 

Long-hitting Danny Willett is tied for first at 322.7. Not unusual at all for someone who has never averaged over 290 on the PGA Tour ;)

[Ashley Schaeffer]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

 

 

Augusta mows the fairways from the green to the tee so tee shots get less roll. They also water the fairways a lot, to the point where I have seen guys complaining about getting mud on the ball when they haven't had any recent rainfall. Not sure if they are still watering that much.

 

I would like to see the average drive in the US Open compared to the average in regular tour events. I would bet drives are going at least 10 yards farther in the US Open.

 

84 are currently averaging 300+.

26 are currently averaging 310+.

7 are currently averaging 300+.

 

Long-hitting Danny Willett is tied for first at 322.7. Not unusual at all for someone who has never averaged over 290 on the PGA Tour ;)

 

I can't put my finger on why, but it kind of reminds me of a kid losing a toy on purpose to try to convince mom and dad to buy him a new one.

[North Texas]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

 

 

Augusta mows the fairways from the green to the tee so tee shots get less roll. They also water the fairways a lot, to the point where I have seen guys complaining about getting mud on the ball when they haven't had any recent rainfall. Not sure if they are still watering that much.

 

I would like to see the average drive in the US Open compared to the average in regular tour events. I would bet drives are going at least 10 yards farther in the US Open.

 

84 are currently averaging 300+.

26 are currently averaging 310+.

7 are currently averaging 300+.

 

Long-hitting Danny Willett is tied for first at 322.7. Not unusual at all for someone who has never averaged over 290 on the PGA Tour ;)

 

I can't put my finger on why, but it kind of reminds me of a kid losing a toy on purpose to try to convince mom and dad to buy him a new one.

 

I may or may not be guilty of that. Hell, the wife still thinks I do stuff like that.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

NBA: There are too many dunks!

Fans: We like them. It seems like the right amount.

NBA: Nope. Too many dunks. The game is too much about dunking nowadays. You don't know sh*t. Pthew!

Fans: OK, but--

NBA: *lowers rim to 8 feet for the Finals* See! Look at all these dunks! Something must be done, but the 8 ft. hoop stays.

[DFS PFD]

NBA: There are too many dunks!

Fans: We like them. It seems like the right amount.

NBA: Nope. Too many dunks. The game is too much about dunking nowadays. You don't know sh*t. Pthew!

Fans: OK, but--

NBA: *lowers rim to 8 feet for the Finals* See! Look at all these dunks! Something must be done, but the 8 ft. hoop stays.

NBA does have 3 point line further back than NCAA, which is further back than High School/Pal/Etc....

[heavy_hitter]

NBA: There are too many dunks!

Fans: We like them. It seems like the right amount.

NBA: Nope. Too many dunks. The game is too much about dunking nowadays. You don't know sh*t. Pthew!

Fans: OK, but--

NBA: *lowers rim to 8 feet for the Finals* See! Look at all these dunks! Something must be done, but the 8 ft. hoop stays.

NBA does have 3 point line further back than NCAA, which is further back than High School/Pal/Etc....

 

Apples and Oranges

[Ashley Schaeffer]

NBA: There are too many dunks!

Fans: We like them. It seems like the right amount.

NBA: Nope. Too many dunks. The game is too much about dunking nowadays. You don't know sh*t. Pthew!

Fans: OK, but--

NBA: *lowers rim to 8 feet for the Finals* See! Look at all these dunks! Something must be done, but the 8 ft. hoop stays.

NBA does have 3 point line further back than NCAA, which is further back than High School/Pal/Etc....

 

Yes, and pro golf is played on tougher courses than amateur and recreational golf.

We're talking dunks! Too many dunks!

 

Quick edit: In your example it would be like saying "too many threes" and then moving the 3pt line to HS range to prove it. That's what I was getting at.

[bigred90gt]

As a tangent to this topic, I would like to see some momentum for more proper forward tees being constructed. Especially on many public tracks. I play frequently with my girlfriend who hits it pretty well. At many courses she has absolutely zero chance to reach the majority of par 4’s in regulation. Too often they just stick some red tees in the ground at the front “men’s” tee box. She doesn’t seem to mind, but man that would wear me out and certainly has to be demoralizing for new players.

 

Just wanted to get that off my chest, carry on.

 

According to a few posters in favor of rolling the ball back, no one deserves a shot at getting on in regulation, so those that cannot need to just suck it up. For reference, I do not fit that category.

Another complete misrepresentation that has been plainly laid out for you, but you've been much too dense to even read our arguments for comprehension. Ashley even chimed in on this, but maybe you didn't read that critique either.

 

That is not a misrepresentation of anything g. Do I need to go back and quote the post again?

[BNGL]

Height of cut plays only a minor roll in ball roll out, yes it is a factor, but not as much as you might figure. The bigger factors are controlling water, fertility (which will affect the width of the leaf blade), and firmness of the ground which will be affected by aerification and topdressings. I do understand what you guys are saying, just thought that I would add some bigger factors that should be considered.

 

Someone mentioned the firmness of ANGC and the crosswalks...they're crosswalks, they are going to be compacted from all the traffic being directed to cross in a narrow space. We would try to open ours up almost immediately after the event, just to make sure that had uniform color and growth rates through out the season.

[North Texas]

As a tangent to this topic, I would like to see some momentum for more proper forward tees being constructed. Especially on many public tracks. I play frequently with my girlfriend who hits it pretty well. At many courses she has absolutely zero chance to reach the majority of par 4's in regulation. Too often they just stick some red tees in the ground at the front "men's" tee box. She doesn't seem to mind, but man that would wear me out and certainly has to be demoralizing for new players.

 

Just wanted to get that off my chest, carry on.

 

According to a few posters in favor of rolling the ball back, no one deserves a shot at getting on in regulation, so those that cannot need to just suck it up. For reference, I do not fit that category.

Another complete misrepresentation that has been plainly laid out for you, but you've been much too dense to even read our arguments for comprehension. Ashley even chimed in on this, but maybe you didn't read that critique either.

 

That is not a misrepresentation of anything g. Do I need to go back and quote the post again?

 

Go ahead as I am curious to see exactly what was said as well as whether or not it was "the post" or "a few posters".

[DFS PFD]

As a tangent to this topic, I would like to see some momentum for more proper forward tees being constructed. Especially on many public tracks. I play frequently with my girlfriend who hits it pretty well. At many courses she has absolutely zero chance to reach the majority of par 4's in regulation. Too often they just stick some red tees in the ground at the front "men's" tee box. She doesn't seem to mind, but man that would wear me out and certainly has to be demoralizing for new players.

 

Just wanted to get that off my chest, carry on.

 

According to a few posters in favor of rolling the ball back, no one deserves a shot at getting on in regulation, so those that cannot need to just suck it up. For reference, I do not fit that category.

Another complete misrepresentation that has been plainly laid out for you, but you've been much too dense to even read our arguments for comprehension. Ashley even chimed in on this, but maybe you didn't read that critique either.

 

That is not a misrepresentation of anything g. Do I need to go back and quote the post again?

Please do. Verbatim.

[bigred90gt]

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

 

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

 

That's a great point. Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.

Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.

Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

 

Your words, not mine.

[DFS PFD]

What's reasonable for every single golfer to be able to reach every hole in regulation? Honestly, I don't understand why everyone needs to be able to reach in reg with drives less than 200 yards. The game isn't supposed to be easy.

 

Maybe we need to only have executive courses.

 

That's a great point. Nobody "deserves" to hit a GIR when his or her game doesn't allow for it.

Some simply don't want to make it even harder for that type of player just because guys on TV aren't hitting the "right" clubs into greens.

Absolutely agree, just tired of seeing that point used over and over again. Not everyone that plays golf needs to be able to ( or is capable of) play(ing) regulation golf. That's why we have the handicap system. I think we're on the same page here.

 

Your words, not mine.

"Needs" and "deserves" are two very different words. Let me know if you "need" even further clarification even though you don't "deserve" it.

[Mikey5e]

I wonder how many times "bifurcation" will be used in this thread?

[bladehunter]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

 

 

Augusta mows the fairways from the green to the tee so tee shots get less roll. They also water the fairways a lot, to the point where I have seen guys complaining about getting mud on the ball when they haven't had any recent rainfall. Not sure if they are still watering that much.

 

I would like to see the average drive in the US Open compared to the average in regular tour events. I would bet drives are going at least 10 yards farther in the US Open.

 

I've only been this one last time but I can tell you the fairways at this years Masters were freaking solid. I specifically was looking for this while there. I remember thinking I'd have a hard time putting a tee into the ground and if you fell down at one of the crossings it was going to feel like concrete.

 

That’s just from the red clay. It’s only soft if you get a week of straight rain.

 

 

So you think that the fairways on tour are 30-50 yards faster than 2013 ? That’s a huge bridge to build