The primary anti-roll back the ball argument

[Shilgy]

Danny Willet averaged 280 yards off the tee in 2017.

 

https://www.pgatour....ny-willett.html

 

In round 1 of the US Open the site shows him as averaging 330.8 yards.

 

Must have switched balls this year.

 

He did change swings. Who knows ?

And it was only 44 measured drives.

[MrJones]

Danny Willet averaged 280 yards off the tee in 2017.

 

https://www.pgatour....ny-willett.html

 

In round 1 of the US Open the site shows him as averaging 330.8 yards.

 

Must have switched balls this year.

 

He did change swings. Who knows ?

And it was only 44 measured drives.

 

Oh ok. Well probably if they'd measured more he would have been around 325 or so.

 

For a second I ignorantly was thinking that firm fairways and roll were the big contributor to his length.

[Shilgy]

Danny Willet averaged 280 yards off the tee in 2017.

 

https://www.pgatour....ny-willett.html

 

In round 1 of the US Open the site shows him as averaging 330.8 yards.

 

Must have switched balls this year.

 

He did change swings. Who knows ?

And it was only 44 measured drives.

 

Oh ok. Well probably if they'd measured more he would have been around 325 or so.

 

For a second I ignorantly was thinking that firm fairways and roll were the big contributor to his length.

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

[North Texas]

BTW, as a complete WAG I am thinking the USGA's greatest heartburn is with the fancy 3, 4, and 5 piece balls. Their "rollback" won't take the form of Nerfing the ball, but instead legislate that all balls will be limited to 2 uniform layers only. Thus, you can have a low spin distance core, but short game, short iron spin will be compromised or a spinny core that spins alot for all clubhead speeds. No more having your cake and eating it too. My 2 cents.

 

Good post here.

 

People who are all bent out of shape over a rollback are generally bringing hysterics into the discussion.

[MrJones]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

[Shilgy]

BTW, as a complete WAG I am thinking the USGA's greatest heartburn is with the fancy 3, 4, and 5 piece balls. Their "rollback" won't take the form of Nerfing the ball, but instead legislate that all balls will be limited to 2 uniform layers only. Thus, you can have a low spin distance core, but short game, short iron spin will be compromised or a spinny core that spins alot for all clubhead speeds. No more having your cake and eating it too. My 2 cents.

 

Good post here.

 

People who are all bent out of shape over a rollback are generally bringing hysterics into the discussion.

Would you say there are more hysterics involed to change the game because of 0.0001% of the players or the rest of us that do not need a change?

[bladehunter]

Danny Willet averaged 280 yards off the tee in 2017.

 

https://www.pgatour....ny-willett.html

 

In round 1 of the US Open the site shows him as averaging 330.8 yards.

 

Must have switched balls this year.

 

He did change swings. Who knows ?

And it was only 44 measured drives.

 

Probably all measured drivers though. This is the disparity in the stats it i feel exists.

[bladehunter]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it’s due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

[North Texas]

BTW, as a complete WAG I am thinking the USGA's greatest heartburn is with the fancy 3, 4, and 5 piece balls. Their "rollback" won't take the form of Nerfing the ball, but instead legislate that all balls will be limited to 2 uniform layers only. Thus, you can have a low spin distance core, but short game, short iron spin will be compromised or a spinny core that spins alot for all clubhead speeds. No more having your cake and eating it too. My 2 cents.

 

Good post here.

 

People who are all bent out of shape over a rollback are generally bringing hysterics into the discussion.

Would you say there are more hysterics involed to change the game because of 0.0001% of the players or the rest of us that do not need a change?

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

In general, I think both sides are very passionate about the game and it's future and generally present ideas worthy enough to make the other side stop and sincerely consider what it being said. However, for the most part, those they think we do not need a change are simply incapable of seeing any value in viewpoints that are opposed to theirs.

[Sean2]

BTW, as a complete WAG I am thinking the USGA's greatest heartburn is with the fancy 3, 4, and 5 piece balls. Their "rollback" won't take the form of Nerfing the ball, but instead legislate that all balls will be limited to 2 uniform layers only. Thus, you can have a low spin distance core, but short game, short iron spin will be compromised or a spinny core that spins alot for all clubhead speeds. No more having your cake and eating it too. My 2 cents.

 

Good post here.

 

People who are all bent out of shape over a rollback are generally bringing hysterics into the discussion.

Would you say there are more hysterics involed to change the game because of 0.0001% of the players or the rest of us that do not need a change?

 

I haven't noticed any "hysterics" over a possible roll back...just people pointing out idiocy when they see it. I just saw JT carry a drive 259 yards. DJ and TW hit theirs in the 265 range. As many of us have said, fairways that seem to be cut and rolled contribute to these large distances players are hitting the ball. A few years ago at the rain soaked Farmers the average drive I saw, that the coverage "Trackmaned", was around 275.

 

The only thing that needs to be rolled back are some of the decisions made by the USGA.

[radiman]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

[Shilgy]

BTW, as a complete WAG I am thinking the USGA's greatest heartburn is with the fancy 3, 4, and 5 piece balls. Their "rollback" won't take the form of Nerfing the ball, but instead legislate that all balls will be limited to 2 uniform layers only. Thus, you can have a low spin distance core, but short game, short iron spin will be compromised or a spinny core that spins alot for all clubhead speeds. No more having your cake and eating it too. My 2 cents.

 

Good post here.

 

People who are all bent out of shape over a rollback are generally bringing hysterics into the discussion.

Would you say there are more hysterics involed to change the game because of 0.0001% of the players or the rest of us that do not need a change?

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

In general, I think both sides are very passionate about the game and it's future and generally present ideas worthy enough to make the other side stop and sincerely consider what it being said. However, for the most part, those they think we do not need a change are simply incapable of seeing any value in viewpoints that are opposed to theirs.

I can understand why some feel the ball goes too far in the pro game. And I certainly do not claim to have all the answers. I abhor the idea of bifurcation but would like to occasionally see events played at the older shorter courses. Which I guess leads to the question. perhaps it is just a matter of course design? Harbor Town is still relevant. Why? Other shorter course do not get dominated by the pros. either. Modern design-Jack's courses included- promote bombing driver as far as possible. That, coupled with many many more younger stronger fitter faster swinging pros gives the illusion the game is out of control. Just one guys pov.

[North Texas]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

 

I think you have to look at a lot of data and take different things into consideration when looking at issues like this.

 

For example, here's a link to an article showing that there has been a 5.6 yard increase in just the past year and an 11.6 yard increase in the past 10 years on the PGA Tour. Just another piece of the puzzle.

 

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2018/5/28/through-colonial-pga-tours-driving-distance-average-at-2948-and-where-that-number-ranks-historically

[bladehunter]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

 

I’m just jusst talking about Danny willet. The fairways haven’t changed for his stats mentioned above. Has to be that they measured all drivers for him this year. Either o purpose or by pure accident. I think average driving numbers are artificially low because of less than Driver being hit now more than in past.

[Shilgy]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

 

I think you have to look at a lot of data and take different things into consideration when looking at issues like this.

 

For example, here's a link to an article showing that there has been a 5.6 yard increase in just the past year and an 11.6 yard increase in the past 10 years on the PGA Tour. Just another piece of the puzzle.

 

https://www.geoffsha...ks-historically

I will take the word of a tour player-and not a Titleist player at that lol :)

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/519432/dustin-johnson-doesnt-hit-the-ball-too-far-says-dustin-johnson/?utm_source=Front&utm_medium=Featured_Latest&utm_campaign=GolfWRX_OnSite&utm_content=unused

[radiman]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

 

I'm just jusst talking about Danny willet. The fairways haven't changed for his stats mentioned above. Has to be that they measured all drivers for him this year. Either o purpose or by pure accident. I think average driving numbers are artificially low because of less than Driver being hit now more than in past.

 

Got ya. I misunderstood the comment. Carry on :)

[bigred90gt]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

 

I think you have to look at a lot of data and take different things into consideration when looking at issues like this.

 

For example, here's a link to an article showing that there has been a 5.6 yard increase in just the past year and an 11.6 yard increase in the past 10 years on the PGA Tour. Just another piece of the puzzle.

 

https://www.geoffsha...ks-historically

 

I'm not sure where he is getting his numbers, but from the 2017 USGA Distance Report:

 

1998 - 271

2008 - 287

2016 - 290

2017 - 293

 

He has the numbers as:

1998 - 269

2008 - 283

2016 - 288

2017 - 289

2018 - 295

 

USGA doesnt have a published report for 2018 yet that I know of, but according to PGA Tour website, through FedEx St Jude last week, average (amongse the 205 people on the list) is 295, so his number is comparable there. BUT, that is hardly the 6 yards he claims it is (I'm rounding the numbers, not going into decimals, he says 5.6) if you look at the USGA report, it is 2 yards. And his 11.6 yards over the last 10 years is actually 8.

[rangersgoalie]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

 

I think you have to look at a lot of data and take different things into consideration when looking at issues like this.

 

For example, here's a link to an article showing that there has been a 5.6 yard increase in just the past year and an 11.6 yard increase in the past 10 years on the PGA Tour. Just another piece of the puzzle.

 

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2018/5/28/through-colonial-pga-tours-driving-distance-average-at-2948-and-where-that-number-ranks-historically

 

I honestly do not know, but

What were the differences in conditions for the measuring in those events?

I seem to remember there was a discussion about the number of events and the differences in conditions in the events in that story? But I did not follow it to knownthe end result.

[MrJones]

I was not saying you were incorrect-sorry if it came off that way. Willet by the numbers is a short hitter by tour standards. Period. And yes you are likely correct that the highway fairway speeds contributed to his 366 yard drive yesterday.

I gotcha. A lot of us have been arguing a ball roll back wouldn't be necessary if it weren't for the 30 to 50+ yards of roll they see on the tour. To me this is a prime example of that.

 

I don't see how others would argue that courses are becoming obsolete more so due to the ball (they will admit other factors are involved) rather than course conditions.

 

Nothin to show us it's due to more roll. Fairways today are same as 5 years ago.

 

Driving distance hasn't gone up even 10 yards in the past 15 years. There are so many contributing factors in play. I still think the fact that the average age and swing speed of the PGA professional is now younger and faster respectively is the biggest factor in any modern era gains. It seemed in the past, the PGA pros were short, thin, and not very muscular. Now, you have guys like DJ and Finau that are tall, have freakishly long arms, and are strong to boot. Just like how a large lineman in the NFL from 25 years ago would be considered too small for the position now.

 

The game is attracting more athletic players, plain and simple.

 

I'm just jusst talking about Danny willet. The fairways haven't changed for his stats mentioned above. Has to be that they measured all drivers for him this year. Either o purpose or by pure accident. I think average driving numbers are artificially low because of less than Driver being hit now more than in past.

 

So you think the nearly 50 yard distance is attributable to nothing but bad stat collecting?

 

And how do you know the fairways are the same as 5 years ago? Are you there and have tested them? And you were there 5 years ago and tested them as well? Or are you just going by what you see?

 

 

Go look at all the names that hit it in the 320's for yesterdays round and then look at their normal averages. Lot's of guys way up.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

If we don't want pros hitting it so far, they could just have all the events on the West Coast. Not the West in general, the actual coast. I've played everywhere from Bellingham, WA to San Diego, and the ball goes shorter than anywhere else in the US. If Danny Willet hit one 366 out here, I would be extremely surprised. I know I've mentioned it before, but my trip to Kiawah Island (in February) was so much fun for a lot of reasons. The best thing was gaining 20 yards off the tee and a full club with the irons without having to change a thing.

[RobS14526]

As a tangent to this topic, I would like to see some momentum for more proper forward tees being constructed. Especially on many public tracks. I play frequently with my girlfriend who hits it pretty well. At many courses she has absolutely zero chance to reach the majority of par 4’s in regulation. Too often they just stick some red tees in the ground at the front “men’s” tee box. She doesn’t seem to mind, but man that would wear me out and certainly has to be demoralizing for new players.

 

Just wanted to get that off my chest, carry on.

[ThinkingPlus]

As a tangent to this topic, I would like to see some momentum for more proper forward tees being constructed. Especially on many public tracks. I play frequently with my girlfriend who hits it pretty well. At many courses she has absolutely zero chance to reach the majority of par 4’s in regulation. Too often they just stick some red tees in the ground at the front “men’s” tee box. She doesn’t seem to mind, but man that would wear me out and certainly has to be demoralizing for new players.

 

Just wanted to get that off my chest, carry on.

Good post, but you are tilting at windmills here. You might get some support from an abstract concept perspective, but it would be a tough sell at most male dominated clubs and munis when money must be expended to add those extra tees.

[clevited]

I'm not sure I understand one of the primary argument that is used against the idea of rolling back the ball: That it hurts the recreational player who doesn't hit the ball far enough as it is. My question is: Let's say they made the golf ball go 5% shorter across the board. Why couldn't everyone play 6500 yard courses rather than 6900 yards. Nothing else would change. Everyone moves up a set of tees and the very back tees are eliminated. Shorter golf courses means quicker rounds, less fertilizer and expenses. Instead of hitting a 7 iron 160, one would hit it 152. How would this be catastrophic to the amateur game?

 

I want to go on record, again, and say that I support this viewpoint. Something between 5% and 10% might be better. But overall I support this concept.

 

You do understand how a rollback of only 5 or even 10 percent wouldn't even come close to addressing this supposed problem right? It would be a half Word not allowed change that does not address the USGA's (and your) issue with distance. It would be an annoying, and expensive change that will do nothing but piss off at least a little, the majority of golfers. Then in 5 years, the talk will come up again that it accomplished nothing.

 

A 10% roll back takes a 300 yard carry and reduces it to 270. I'm good with that. It also takes my 220 yard carry and reduces it to 200. I am also OK with that, because I can move up a set of tees.

 

Just want you to realize that many pro's unlike most of us, have a little more gas in the tank they can't usually utilize on the course. Expecially the longest ones. So go ahead, drop it 10%, I guarantee you many can close that gap and make it like it didn't exist, while all of us suffer for THEM. It is great that you are ok with it, I am not ok with it, and I know first hand a very large number of people that wouldn't be ok with that, especially the women who use the furthest up tees. So as I said, it is a half assed effort to fix a pretend problem and it won't succeed in doing that. All it does is piss off many of us. Don't touch the ball, there, potential crisis averted.

[clevited]

Just a great little opinion article I found that sums things up for me and makes concisely, a lot of the points I have made and others have made. Give it a read if you like. Just a simple and well put article I thought.

 

http://northshoregolfmagazine.com/shades-of-green-has-the-golf-ball-gone-too-far/

[bigred90gt]

As a tangent to this topic, I would like to see some momentum for more proper forward tees being constructed. Especially on many public tracks. I play frequently with my girlfriend who hits it pretty well. At many courses she has absolutely zero chance to reach the majority of par 4’s in regulation. Too often they just stick some red tees in the ground at the front “men’s” tee box. She doesn’t seem to mind, but man that would wear me out and certainly has to be demoralizing for new players.

 

Just wanted to get that off my chest, carry on.

 

According to a few posters in favor of rolling the ball back, no one deserves a shot at getting on in regulation, so those that cannot need to just suck it up. For reference, I do not fit that category.

[Gilmore-Happy]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

[ex0dus]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

 

 

Augusta mows the fairways from the green to the tee so tee shots get less roll. They also water the fairways a lot, to the point where I have seen guys complaining about getting mud on the ball when they haven't had any recent rainfall. Not sure if they are still watering that much.

 

I would like to see the average drive in the US Open compared to the average in regular tour events. I would bet drives are going at least 10 yards farther in the US Open.

[DFS PFD]

As a tangent to this topic, I would like to see some momentum for more proper forward tees being constructed. Especially on many public tracks. I play frequently with my girlfriend who hits it pretty well. At many courses she has absolutely zero chance to reach the majority of par 4’s in regulation. Too often they just stick some red tees in the ground at the front “men’s” tee box. She doesn’t seem to mind, but man that would wear me out and certainly has to be demoralizing for new players.

 

Just wanted to get that off my chest, carry on.

 

According to a few posters in favor of rolling the ball back, no one deserves a shot at getting on in regulation, so those that cannot need to just suck it up. For reference, I do not fit that category.

Another complete misrepresentation that has been plainly laid out for you, but you've been much too dense to even read our arguments for comprehension. Ashley even chimed in on this, but maybe you didn't read that critique either.

[MrJones]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

 

 

Augusta mows the fairways from the green to the tee so tee shots get less roll. They also water the fairways a lot, to the point where I have seen guys complaining about getting mud on the ball when they haven't had any recent rainfall. Not sure if they are still watering that much.

 

I would like to see the average drive in the US Open compared to the average in regular tour events. I would bet drives are going at least 10 yards farther in the US Open.

 

I've only been this one last time but I can tell you the fairways at this years Masters were freaking solid. I specifically was looking for this while there. I remember thinking I'd have a hard time putting a tee into the ground and if you fell down at one of the crossings it was going to feel like concrete.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

The fix is truly simple (especially for the PGA): Stop mowing fairways down to concrete-like surfaces, narrow the fairways, and grow the rough another inch or so.

 

Exactly. That's a huge part of the issue people don't think about. It's one of the BIGGEST differences I noticed between Augusta and the nicest courses we play at home. Now given, Augusta is probably trimmed with an entire staff using scissors but still. The fairways there are literally like 75% of the greens we see and the "first cut" of rough is like our fairways. Make them play municipal course conditions and lets see what happens. I already know actually. Tons of bitching lol.

 

 

Augusta mows the fairways from the green to the tee so tee shots get less roll. They also water the fairways a lot, to the point where I have seen guys complaining about getting mud on the ball when they haven't had any recent rainfall. Not sure if they are still watering that much.

 

I would like to see the average drive in the US Open compared to the average in regular tour events. I would bet drives are going at least 10 yards farther in the US Open.

 

It might even be more. Maybe not today with the rain, but definitely yesterday. USGA: Of course the ball will go "too far" when you make the conditions at your ONE tournament unlike every other week. I bet there were a few USGA people who did not want to see that rain this morning, and it didn't have much to do with this particular tournament.