MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

[dcmidnight]

Fact is, we should not have been open last weekend. The course was soaked and the greens can use the rest. I happily played but I probably would rather have not put those 100+ rounds on the course in that condition and saved the impact for later on in the year. Plus as you said, the shop staff needs a break. They normally get these 2-2.5 weeks off completely because the shop/course/restaurant completely shuts down. I know we'll go to temp greens as soon as the first snow/melt really hits and they will have them out probably until mid March.

I normally ignore the loft issues because they come up every offseason but the odd thing is the 5* gap at the bottom of the bag and 3* at the top end. I wish it was opposite. For people who might be the general target audience, they are probably hitting a 4 and 5 iron relatively similar anyway and with those gaps - and with manufacturing tolerances - are they really going to see that much of a difference?

[vtnerf]

Callaway isn't doing anything shifty. They are selling new clubs, just like everyone else is selling new clubs.

I'm having to adjust right now becausse I went from forged clubs 4-PW to AP3's 5-48*. The distances are basically one club stronger than the prior sets that I've had.

But I don't care what the number on the bottom of the club says. It's about scoring the lowest on each hole. I don't care if they call clubs red/white/blue irons. Or different bird names. Point is that the number on the bottom means nothing outside of distinguishing that club from another club within the same set in your bag. And it ends there.

[misplacedtexan83]

Good thing we live in 2020

Lofts have just got stronger and stronger .. anyways

Clubs price are getting higher and higher. Places like 2nd swing are going to hurt the bottom dollar of the oem companies, IMO.

So not sure their reasoning but maybe selling less for more is better than selling more for less

I just have to be upfront with lofts and price like Im always

[SullGolf]

I've honestly never looked hard at Pebble Beach, and didn't realize you fly in to San Jose to play there. Need to stay there for a weekend after a work trip and get my dad to fly out and play with me. Definitely added to the list for this year some time.

[TheCityGame]

It seems like most sets have 3º at the bottom and 5º at the top. Mizzy's do.

It KIND OF makes sense. . .like there's a 10% difference between 20 and 22, and there's a 10% difference between 50 and 55 (or where the rubber meets the road. . .carry distance for a ball launched at 11º vs 13º is similar to carry distance for a ball launched at 21º vs 23º). But, also, the shortening of the wedges makes for lower swing speeds, makes for tighter gaps for the same amount of degrees.

But, being able to hit a difference of 118 yards vs 121 yards is much more important than being able to hit a difference of 188 yards vs 191 yards. You can really feel those wedge gaps more than long iron gaps.

I know I'm in la la land, but I'd just like to see the industry collectively go, "all right, let's stop messing with the loft numbers to screw with people." It's not beneficial to golfers. It's actually probably harmful to golfers' scores, and they know it, but they just keep pushing it further.

It's like if beer companies figured out they could sell more beer if they made the cans taller and skinnier (with the same amount of beer) until we were drinking out of cans with the dimensions of a pencil.

 

[TheCityGame]

 

Taylor Made irons are listed at $899.99 on their page. If you click through the irons, you can buy 4-PW, AW for $899.99. 8 irons. If you want the 4-PW, the price actually drops to $787.99 but TaylorMade isn't advertising their irons as starting at $787.99.

Callaway advertises their irons "from $799.99". That gets you a 4-PW (7 irons). If you want 8 irons, you're paying $925. If you aren't sophisticated and get a 4-AW (like you've always gotten) you're going to get a club you can't hit and be missing a club that you want.

Call it marketing. Call it sales. Call it deceptive. Call it duplicitous. Call it shifty. I don't care what you call it. Not everyone does it. And, having an A and G in the same set to fill out the expected and accepted spots is nonsense. To most golfers, those are interchangeable clubs and A/G is manufacturer dependent. Callaway is trying to capitalize on the confusion of those two things. I think it's shifty.

 

[misplacedtexan83]

Yeah with the lofts so strong you need a G and an A for gapping

Distance is king for a lot of people ( majority of golfers) I have seen scratch golfers buy super game improvement because they wanted their 7 iron to go a certain number.

Like in life not all people think the same or want the same things. So Most companies worry about the majority not the wrxers of the world

Consumers get told the price before, during and after - on them if they think it’s worth it

 

[vtnerf]

Huh, different manufacturers advertise their products in different manners. Film at 11.

[FAbb]

Titleist does pretty much the same thing with their most GI iron offering. They have for some number of years. There's a P, W1, and W2 in the set. Go to TGW, and see what their "stock" set offerings are. It's 4-P, 4-W1, and 5-W1. So you either custom order to get the W2 to fill the gap wedge spot in your bag, or you buy a gap wedge separately from your set. 2 of the 3 stock set options include the 4-iron, which most people buying those irons can't hit for $hit anyways.

And Titleist generally has a very clean, and positive reputation.

[dcmidnight]

I guess I feel like if you are going to spend $800-1,000 on a set of irons, you're going to take the 30 seconds to make sure you are getting the ones you want. If they are advertising it as "from $799.99" to me that means they start at 799.99. And since there is no accepted standard as to what compromises an "iron set" - it doesnt strike me as shifty rather its just the way that pretty much anyone sells irons.

You can pick a set on Callaway's site with fewer irons so its actually not even "from 799" since you can buy sets that are less. IE - the 5-PW set.

[vtnerf]

 

[FAbb]

It's totally a sales thing. It's like buying a car. BMW is a horrible offender with using that tactic. "Starting at $36,850!" Then they upcharge you for EVERYTHING. They stop barely short of charging you extra if you want to have seats in your car.

It's ultimately up to the consumer to know what they're buying, but it does come off sort of deceptive. Blatant salesmanship always feels grimy to me. It's not just one company that's guilty though.

I'd bet there's a huge segment of the golf consumer population that isn't on WRX, doesn't buy their clubs at demo days, and barely tests what they buy at all. They go hit the one demo iron provided for each set they test, pick the one that goes the furthest, and then order a set that stops at the same place their current set does. It would be great if we could collectively go back to a semi-standard marketplace. But as long as dumb-dumb Joe Blow is gonna walk into the store to buy irons, and pick based on whoever's 7-iron flies the furthest, we're not going to.

 

[thechief16]

So my issue is actually that different Cally sets (and maybe others, I just checked b/c I'm playing Callys) have vastly different specs.

MAVRIK 4i-6i: 18*, 21*, 24*

MAVRIK Pro: 21*, 23.5* 26.5*

Apex Pro: 23*, 26*, 29*

 

What a friggin' nightmare. I actually feel for Tex having to fit this.

[dcmidnight]

But as long as dumb-dumb Joe Blow is gonna walk into the store to buy irons, and pick based on whoever's 7-iron flies the furthest...

The % of golfers that arent on WRX and/or dont buy clubs from a fitting or demo day - and do just what you're describing - has to be bordering on 98-99%.

[dcmidnight]

Yeah I noticed this when comparing the Titleist MB/CBs. Between their different iron lines Titleist has a 5 or 6* spread in the individual iron lofts.

6 iron in different models is either 26*, 27*, 30* or 31*.

7 irons - 29*, 30*, 34*, 35*.

[misplacedtexan83]

So you can buy one iron or a set. There is a price point for just one iron. Not sure on the math but I know if you get a hybrid combo set— it’s like buying one hybrid and the second one is free.

Thanks chief.. it can be hard to gap them. I study during the off-season and have a binder with specifics if I need a reference

End of the day golf is getting more expensive but deals can be had on the secondary markers, 2nd swing, eBay, etc

My only goal is that to fit someone proper, be upfront with the customer on all aspects of the equipment. I get paid if someone buys or not. So it’s on the pro to push

 

 

 

[TheCityGame]

But, that's what I'm talking about here.

THOSE are the people who I think Callaway is doing a disservice to (not just Callaway). Ultimately it's on Joe Blow, but if Joe Blow goes into a store and goes, "well, my set now is 4-AW, so I'm going to get the 4-AW" and then realizes he needs another club, and that he can't hit his 4I, but he's hitting his 7 iron 10 yards further!! Not everyone is hanging out with Tex on the range.

Seriously, last night I got a text from a guy saying he hit some new 7 iron on the range and it went 20 yards further than his. This is a guy who should know better (2More was on this text). Has golfed a long time at a high level and has friends who are knowledgeable. Is there no responsibility within the golf industry to just make better irons and not have the marketing tied in with this nonsense.

Also, I don't know the history of the product line of Cally, but it seems to me that if your 5 became a 4 and your 8 became a 7, and your A became a P, then your SW should now be your AW. You shouldn't say, "well the AW became the PW, the SW stayed the same, and so now we have a GW". THAT spot in the bag seems to be either A or G depending on manufacturer, but not both, which doesn't help with the confusion.

[dcmidnight]

Because not everyone cares about this - and by not everyone I mean almost no one. You/I/We care about this 100x more than anyone else that plays golf. No one I golf with outside this thread cares one rip about the lofts on their clubs. They buy new clubs every few years - or they dont. But they figure it out and go on with their day when they get to play their one round a month or one round every few weeks.

They're not keeping yardage charts for different iron shots and a wedge yardage chart for all their short game yardages. They just go out and play golf. BTW thats me referring to me with the yardage chart and not me throwing City under the bus. But that guy goes into Dicks, buys his new set, hits the ball further and happily goes on about his round.

I get where you're coming from, I just think the reality is the OEMs dont do this because the general public doesnt care about it.

[SullGolf]

There is a weird mental barrier about hitting a particular iron farther, even if you absolutely know it’s because of lofts. It hasn’t affected my purchases, but it has impacted my decisions for far too long before I finally adapt.

[dcmidnight]

Burke Lake is now running happy hour specials during the week, $10 for a small bucket and a beer.

Gotta admit, they do more marketing/have more ideas on how to bring people into that place than most bigger courses that I follow on social media.

[dsc123]

I've always ignored warnings that hitting freezing cold range balls can break your clubs. But my new driver arrived yesterday and I was just thinking about it again. I emailed Cobra and Titleist customer support, said I just bought their clubs and wanted to make sure I"m not going to break it by hitting a golf ball that's 30 degrees.

 

Cobra didn't exactly answer my question, but did assure me that if it breaks they'll replace it. That's good enough.

"I know range balls can get very hard at cold temperatures. You can use your judgment to determine if it is safe to hit the balls. If you keep the clubs inside overnight and they aren't exposed to the cold before you round you should be fine. The epoxy has a tendency to become brittle at colder temperatures, but rest assured if a break does happen it is covered under warranty and we will replace the head for you."

 

And here's titleist's response....

"It is not something I have ever heard of. However I live in San Diego."

 

Thanks, Titleist.

 

 

 

 

[dsc123]

I've always ignored warnings I've seen on forums that hitting cold balls might break a driver or wood. I just bang away all winter. But when my new driver arrived yesterday, and I looked at the weekend forecast, I started wondering about it. So I emailed Cobra and titleist, said I just bought their clubs and wanted to make sure I'm not going to break them if I go to a driving range when its 35* outside.

 

Cobra didn't exactly answer the question, but did provide a tip and an assurance that they'd replace the club if it breaks."I know range balls can get very hard at cold temperatures. You can use your judgment to determine if it is safe to hit the balls. If you keep the clubs inside overnight and they aren't exposed to the cold before you round you should be fine. The epoxy has a tendency to become brittle at colder temperatures, but rest assured if a break does happen it is covered under warranty and we will replace the head for you."

 

Titleist:"It is not something I have ever heard of. However I live in San Diego."

Thanks.

[FAbb]

I've definitely seen more than one person damage a club hitting cold range balls.

[dcmidnight]

LOLOL ok, that's funny.

During weeks like this/next its not so much the current temp that I watch so much as the overnights. If the windchill is down into the teens and I know those range balls are just sitting there all night freezing in their metal box - its not worth it. On days like Sun-Wed or so when its not getting above freezing, not only are they frozen overnight but those balls aren't thawing out even during the daytime.

[dcmidnight]

Oh yeah. At the first (?) turkey shoot at PB Dye - the time when Eagle got blackedout and people think he stole my turkey but only half of that statement is actually true - it was so cold the stuff that fills the face slots on my TM irons shattered on three clubs.

[vtnerf]

Golf isn't a one-size-fits-all game. There are different golf balls. Different woods. Different irons. Different putters. Heck, even different tees. I mean, we play golf in spikeless shoes now. Gasp (where did my metal click-clacks go?!)

There doesn't need to be a standard for anything. Not he lofts. Not the lengths. Not the identifications. Not the golf ball. Nothing. Everyone is different. That's why fitting sessions are popular...so you can get what's best for YOU. They don't have a standard bat that must be used in baseball. Or a standard hockey stick. Even different schools play with different basketballs and footballs in D1.

Don't feel for Joe Smoo off the street. The guy that plays 4 times a year WANTS to hit that 7 iron further than his buddy does. Wants to have more forgiveness. And meanwhile has no clue how far he truly hits it. Driver on every non-par-3 tee box, and his favorite iron on every par 3. How many bags have you looked in at a corporate type scramble? I've seen full sets of PXG. And I've seen 18 clubs of 12 different types. Limiting how someone plays the game is not going to make them want to play the game.

[ceejay81]

Gasp (where did my metal click-clacks go?!)

I so miss the sound of metal spikes crunching on pavement. I can't even articulate why.

[SullGolf]

CJ had metal spikes?

I would have thought Kent02Putt was the only one here old enough to have actually used metal spikes. I remember my dad had a pair of metal spikes that were hand me downs from HIS dad...so from the 70s at least. Classic old golf shoes that had the little frilly flap that goes over the laces once tied. Otherwise I can't recall seeing any for sale or on the course in the last 25 years.

[misplacedtexan83]

Callaway has always had an attack wedge— hasn’t changed

Stock Gap is 50-52

Stock Attack is 49-47

mavricks are stronger than the max version.. going to be an interesting year.

[FAbb]

Metal cleats on pavement is more than just audible pleasure. It's a feeling that travels deep into your loins with every step.