Ryder Cup disappointment

[jmvargas]

to cut a long story short the Americans are NOT team players....

[gunmetal]

As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.

 

1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.

 

2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything inbetween.

 

The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.

 

I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.

 

1) They might have a greater desire to win - we all know America has a big target on her back - so yes it might mean more to the Euros to beat the big bad American squad but it certainly matters enough to the American squad. Nobody questioned our desire or passion at Hazeltine two years ago. Nobody questioned our passion when Hunter Mahan broke down crying in 2010 after Gmac went on a birdie fest. Nobody questioned our desire when Phil trashed one of the greatest legends in the game in a press conference. It absolutely matters to us. Well maybe not DJ so much but everyone else.

 

2) Yep.

 

3) It doesn't hurt that 80% of the European squad live and play full time in the US. Their "away" match isn't really much of an away match.

 

**A couple other critical points. The difference between the top 15 players on the PGA tour and the top 15 players of the European Tour is absolutely minuscule and basically meaningless. The Euro team is world class so when you have a course set up in your favor, you are likely going to do well (again, see Hazeltine). Finally, Captain Bjorn had the stones to go against conventional wisdom with his picks. Furyk didn't. Reports are that all of the "data and analytics" told them to take Zach Johnson and Matt Kuchar - but they couldn't do that because you have to have Phil and you have to have Tiger and you have to have the guy winning Fed Ex cup events. Ok. Pretty sure Zach and Kuch could have found a few more fairways than those two. On that course, miss the fairway and you're done.

[gunmetal]

The next time the Ryder Cup is in Europe it should be mandatory every US team member play at least 72 hole prior to the cup. The Euro captains have it figured out. Slow the greens down to 10 and narrow the fairways. Win for Europe.

 

These aren't high school or college kids. They're not even normal pro athletes with a contract. You can't mandate anything for what is, despite all the hype, an exhibition.

 

What are you going to do if (hypothetically) a World #1 Brooks Koepka says no to wasting a precious week off to go play some unknown course in Italy for the 2022 RC? Kick him off the team? Fine him? Good luck with that.

 

Well, if they wouldn't be willing to do that, then they don't want to win all that bad. If they're a world class player they have 2 years to prepare. They have the time. This years Euro team played something like 228 rounds amongst them. U.S. had 12 and 4 was one guy.

 

So your take is that if they don't want to spend the better part of a week just on traveling and changing time zones back and forth to play 3-5 rounds in a tournament with less prize money than the Quicken Loans National then they must not want to win? Guess Francesco Molinari didn't want to win all that bad as he didn't bother playing in that tournament. He won that week in America.

 

The PGA tour makes it very hard for these guys to play anywhere else in the world with the FedEx cup being what it is. Next year they're increasing the payout to the winner to 15MM. Can you really blame these guys?

[gunmetal]

I don't think you can only take players that want to be there, because everyone wants to be there until they get there.

 

Having the Tour championship the week before this is a guarantee our players will be worn out from 3 straight weeks of high pressure golf. Assuming a weekend can't be worked into the schedule...

 

I think the right move for the U.S. is to care far less. Act like it doesn't matter one bit and that it's a fun reward for 2 years of playing well. In reality it matters to the fans and media more than the U.S. players. Of course they want to win their matches as it's in their nature. But stop having 3 days of practice rounds. Stop the team meetings. Stop grinding over the pairings. Put friends together. Stop the chest bumping. Only have 2 assistants. Do the events that are required. Get there as soon as possible to adjust to the time change and sleep a ton. Everything is so overblown. If I was captain I'd let the players decompress and enjoy themselves.

 

What about the 6 Euros who played the Fedex Cup playoffs and played the TC?

 

Half of the Euros in that field were under the age of 30. And FWIW Rose looked pretty gassed too. Don't get me wrong, that's not why we get destroyed. It's one of several reasons that made it more challenging but hitting fairways and holing putts was the biggest deal.

[gunmetal]

I don't think you can only take players that want to be there, because everyone wants to be there until they get there.

 

Having the Tour championship the week before this is a guarantee our players will be worn out from 3 straight weeks of high pressure golf. Assuming a weekend can't be worked into the schedule...

 

I think the right move for the U.S. is to care far less. Act like it doesn't matter one bit and that it's a fun reward for 2 years of playing well. In reality it matters to the fans and media more than the U.S. players. Of course they want to win their matches as it's in their nature. But stop having 3 days of practice rounds. Stop the team meetings. Stop grinding over the pairings. Put friends together. Stop the chest bumping. Only have 2 assistants. Do the events that are required. Get there as soon as possible to adjust to the time change and sleep a ton. Everything is so overblown. If I was captain I'd let the players decompress and enjoy themselves.

 

I think this is why Fred Couples was so successful in the Presidents Cup no matter where it was played.

[ago33]

Few things...

 

Personally I think there wasn’t enough time between the Tour Championship and Ryder Cup.

 

Most of these guys have not played in competition on this course before so they were unable to study it/play on it in competition.

 

Next they had to deal with jet lag. I’ve travel internationally for work and I’m out of it for a day or two. Maybe this had something to do with it, hard to say.

 

Also, no speeth and reed. Why go away from a proven formula.

[ryanarneson]

The next time the Ryder Cup is in Europe it should be mandatory every US team member play at least 72 hole prior to the cup. The Euro captains have it figured out. Slow the greens down to 10 and narrow the fairways. Win for Europe.

 

These aren't high school or college kids. They're not even normal pro athletes with a contract. You can't mandate anything for what is, despite all the hype, an exhibition.

 

What are you going to do if (hypothetically) a World #1 Brooks Koepka says no to wasting a precious week off to go play some unknown course in Italy for the 2022 RC? Kick him off the team? Fine him? Good luck with that.

 

Well, if they wouldn't be willing to do that, then they don't want to win all that bad. If they're a world class player they have 2 years to prepare. They have the time. This years Euro team played something like 228 rounds amongst them. U.S. had 12 and 4 was one guy.

 

So your take is that if they don't want to spend the better part of a week just on traveling and changing time zones back and forth to play 3-5 rounds in a tournament with less prize money than the Quicken Loans National then they must not want to win? Guess Francesco Molinari didn't want to win all that bad as he didn't bother playing in that tournament. He won that week in America.

 

The PGA tour makes it very hard for these guys to play anywhere else in the world with the FedEx cup being what it is. Next year they're increasing the payout to the winner to 15MM. Can you really blame these guys?

 

And no one would care if Molinari did go play the French Open. So he skips the Quicken. No one bats an eye.

 

Now, let Tiger Woods skip the Quicken to go play some Euro tour event and people would lose their minds. Not the least would have been the sponsors of the Quicken Loans National and the national TV broadcasters. He gave them a 80-90% boost in ratings and viewers.

 

If top US players start skipping any of the premier summer events on TOUR with any regularity you'd see the PGA TOUR put a stop to your "mandatory" Euro play pretty damn quick and keep their stars at home, on US soil, on US TV, earning money for the PGA TOUR. And you can bet the Euros will schedule the 2022 Italian Open opposite a juicy PGA Tour stop for this very reason.

 

Which one of the stops listed in this article do you want to forgo the financial windfall that is Tiger Woods?

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...ayed-this-year/

[cgbm]

I read a TON of anti US rc comments about how the US guys arent versitile, are long and thats it, cant putt unless its a 13.... blah blah blah.

 

The EU won. Congrats. And i guess we rightfully have to take these beatings on the chin for 2 more years.

 

But you can bet your house on it that we will be bringing it in Wisconsin.

 

Congrats on the win. And get your jabs in now while you can.

[ED J]

Finau, Xander, Kisner should have been 3 of captain's picks

 

Totally agree w that, Phil had no business being there. Tiger came across as exhausted from previous win.

[ED J]

With the exception of the majors was any tourney "exciting" to watch? Amazing that anyone watches boring identical courses every week. Nothing challenging for these guys.

The BEST tv was Shinnecock without question! More courses like that , great tv.

Let em whine.....

[Jordan Speeth]

you cant have a captain that takes all sorts of input from the players. Spieth exposed that flaw in our lineup and stated the players basically ran the ship....

 

Spieth has become an arrogant dude and is not good for this team......I still cringe at him chest pounding when the team was way behind....it was one of Spieths low moments

 

Spieth always was that guy

 

These two comments are completely clueless. Jordan Spieth couldn't be further from being an "arrogant dude". That would be to ignore everything else he's ever said and done relative to golf and his team play in particular. If you dislike the guy, great, but just say that and leave it at that instead of making up stuff that, more than anything, shows off your ignorance. There is absolutely nobody who knows him who would agree with that description of him. His peers elected him as the Chairman of the Players' Advisory Council to the PGA Tour. That post doesn't normally go to "arrogant" players.

[cgbm]

Jordan speeth sounds eerily similar to jordan spieth.

 

Nice try at hiding.

 

Im on to you.

[cgbm]

you cant have a captain that takes all sorts of input from the players. Spieth exposed that flaw in our lineup and stated the players basically ran the ship....

 

Spieth has become an arrogant dude and is not good for this team......I still cringe at him chest pounding when the team was way behind....it was one of Spieths low moments

 

Spieth always was that guy

 

These two comments are completely clueless. Jordan Spieth couldn't be further from being an "arrogant dude". That would be to ignore everything else he's ever said and done relative to golf and his team play in particular. If you dislike the guy, great, but just say that and leave it at that instead of making up stuff that, more than anything, shows off your ignorance. There is absolutely nobody who knows him who would agree with that description of him. His peers elected him as the Chairman of the Players' Advisory Council to the PGA Tour. That post doesn't normally go to "arrogant" players.

 

If hes so awesome then why did he snub patrick reed at the RC?

 

And why did he make it so awkward when reed signed his neck?

 

I bet he even washed it off afterwards.

[jmvargas]

Finau, Xander, Kisner should have been 3 of captain's picks

 

Totally agree w that, Phil had no business being there. Tiger came across as exhausted from previous win.

 

 

This is purely Monday morning quarterbacking and hindsight but Tiger should have been honest enough to realize he was burnt out and just accepted the asst. captain's role...

 

..I also agree on the 3 Captain's pick recommended above but can't think of a deserving 4th pick right now as I'm not a big fan of Keegan Bradley either..

 

just think that Tiger and Phil made ZERO points between them and if they only made 2 points each USA would have have won!

 

oh well......

 

PS: come to think of it 3 out of the 4 Captain's picks made ZERO points!!

[cgbm]

Phil was a wasted pick. Hes 2nd to last on tour in driving accuracy. That just wont fit to a euro rc event.

 

Its tough because phil and tiger are basically a lock until they die. But i wish a capt had the cahones to pick to the strength of the team

[Pepperturbo]

A home team should have an advantage. No particular reason the US should realistically dominate the RC in all venues. I suppose if the US venues were all on the West Coast that would give them 3 more hours of time zone jet lag from EU.

 

All home teams in the majority of sports have the advantage, competing in front of countryman, family, and friends.

However, that isn't the case regarding the Ryder Cup. We know the home team captain gets to set up the golf course as he/she sees fit. I have no problem with that except it can be problematic as it requires the away team to find a way to play the course multiple times before the actual competition. That can be questionable given the travel schedules of American and Euro touring pros and the need to cross the pond to practice.

As I see it, the Ryder Cup leadership team should configure the golf course for play, not captains.

[mahonie]

A home team should have an advantage. No particular reason the US should realistically dominate the RC in all venues. I suppose if the US venues were all on the West Coast that would give them 3 more hours of time zone jet lag from EU.

 

All home teams in the majority of sports have the advantage, competing in front of countryman, family, and friends.

However, that isn't the case regarding the Ryder Cup. We know the home team captain gets to set up the golf course as he/she sees fit. I have no problem with that except it can be problematic as it requires the away team to find a way to play the course multiple times before the actual competition. That can be questionable given the travel schedules of American and Euro touring pros and the need to cross the pond to practice.

As I see it, the Ryder Cup leadership team should configure the golf course for play, not captains.

 

From what Bjorn said, he didn’t change the course from the set up used for the French Open. Having said that he did check the stats on the US teams’ driving accuracy and knew from the off that the Euro team had a distinct advantage. It is interesting that JT came over and played in the French and finished 6th...and was the standout player in the US team.

 

It is more difficult for the US to set a course up for home advantage as so many Euros play on the PGA Tour and pretty much know what’s coming.

[cinnepa]

i'd be fine with getting rid of both the ryder and prez cups..the US just doesn't seem to want to be there. season is long the way is and now with the fedex our guys seem burnt out. like someone mentioned-we're all about majors...and rightfully so.

[Warrick]

I read a TON of anti US rc comments about how the US guys arent versitile, are long and thats it, cant putt unless its a 13.... blah blah blah.

 

The EU won. Congrats. And i guess we rightfully have to take these beatings on the chin for 2 more years.

 

But you can bet your house on it that we will be bringing it in Wisconsin.

 

Congrats on the win. And get your jabs in now while you can.

 

 

been getting the jabs in for decades now.....

[cgbm]

I read a TON of anti US rc comments about how the US guys arent versitile, are long and thats it, cant putt unless its a 13.... blah blah blah.

 

The EU won. Congrats. And i guess we rightfully have to take these beatings on the chin for 2 more years.

 

But you can bet your house on it that we will be bringing it in Wisconsin.

 

Congrats on the win. And get your jabs in now while you can.

 

 

been getting the jabs in for decades now.....

 

Throwing jabs 2 years ago?

[Warrick]

9 of 12 means the jab is almost getting tired, uppercut last Sunday!!!!

[braincramp52]

I read a TON of anti US rc comments about how the US guys arent versitile, are long and thats it, cant putt unless its a 13.... blah blah blah.

 

The EU won. Congrats. And i guess we rightfully have to take these beatings on the chin for 2 more years.

 

But you can bet your house on it that we will be bringing it in Wisconsin.

 

Congrats on the win. And get your jabs in now while you can.

 

 

been getting the jabs in for decades now.....

 

Throwing jabs 2 years ago?

 

You're fighting a war of words you can't win my friend. The Euro's have owned us in the Ryder Cup for 25 years.

[cgbm]

I read a TON of anti US rc comments about how the US guys arent versitile, are long and thats it, cant putt unless its a 13.... blah blah blah.

 

The EU won. Congrats. And i guess we rightfully have to take these beatings on the chin for 2 more years.

 

But you can bet your house on it that we will be bringing it in Wisconsin.

 

Congrats on the win. And get your jabs in now while you can.

 

 

been getting the jabs in for decades now.....

 

Throwing jabs 2 years ago?

 

You're fighting a war of words you can't win my friend. The Euro's have owned us in the Ryder Cup for 25 years.

 

Sad but true.

[braincramp52]

Phil was a wasted pick. Hes 2nd to last on tour in driving accuracy. That just wont fit to a euro rc event.

 

Its tough because phil and tiger are basically a lock until they die. But i wish a capt had the cahones to pick to the strength of the team

 

Phil was 3rd in putting which is what wins Ryder Cups. It's easy to say Phil was a wasted pick after the fact but no one was beating Molinari and having Phil play foursome's was just stupid.

[cgbm]

Phil was a wasted pick. Hes 2nd to last on tour in driving accuracy. That just wont fit to a euro rc event.

 

Its tough because phil and tiger are basically a lock until they die. But i wish a capt had the cahones to pick to the strength of the team

 

Phil was 3rd in putting which is what wins Ryder Cups. It's easy to say Phil was a wasted pick after the fact but no one was beating Molinari and having Phil play foursome's was just stupid.

 

If thats what wins ryder cups then the argument about bomb and gouge golfers being sub par to the euros is irrelevant and refuted

[cgbm]

And what stat was he 3rd in putting in?

 

Im seeing him being 42nd at best

[braincramp52]

And what stat was he 3rd in putting in?

 

Im seeing him being 42nd at best

 

Overall putting. He slipped down to tied for 8th now but when he was picked he was 3rd.

[cgbm]

I see that he was 13th through the rc. Thats pretty dang good putting.

 

Still dont think he was a good pick as he was worst on tour in driving.

[cgbm]

Or 160th in total driving anyway.

[braincramp52]

Or 160th in total driving anyway.

 

I think the biggest issue with Phil and Tiger both was that they were both mentally shot. Phil played 12 out of 15 weeks and Tiger was emotionally shot from his victory at East Lake. Furyk said there was no way Phil and Tiger weren't going to be on the team because of what they meant to the rest of the team for their leadership. He said if he would have left one of them off he could have had big problems internally.