Ryder Cup disappointment

[LeoLeo99]

Is it really so complicated that there is need for vice-captains and task force? Should be able to pull names out of a hat and go out and play golf and beat the Euros.

[Jordan Speeth]

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

 

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

 

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.

 

How did Rory and Rahm do last week? Their records were not good.

 

I don't recall seeing Rose or Fleetwood playing from the gunch until their singles matches....which they lost to players who put the ball in play and on the green consistently.

 

True and all but Rahm beat Tiger in singles and that's all he cares about right now aside from winning back the Cup

[Jordan Speeth]

<<I think the real JV guy was DJ. Guys had the yips with the putter all year. He is the prototypical PGA guy...just bombs it, uses his strength out of the rough... >>>

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. We're talking about one of the best drivers of the ball in history. He's not spending much time in the deep hay at all but keeping it that long and straight for 72 holes is next to impossible, for anyone. His putter is also not bad but you can't go calling the OWGR #1 with a $10MM year JV. That's just crazy talk...

 

If by prototypical, you mean that everybody coming up wants to play like DJ, then I get it. I honestly think that personal issues derailed his Ryder Cup play this year. He clearly wasn't himself this week.

[2ball]

The US, and the PGA Tour, really need to rethink their strategy going into the next Ryder Cup. The bomb and gouge mentality doesn't work when the courses are set up with tight fairways and deep rough. The stat for fairways hit was in the European players favor and proved to be the winning strategy, along with a strong desire to win from their players as well. Disappointing for the US this time, but hopefully they can change their strategy. A few talking points include:

* Pick players that really want to be there. Sure seemed like a lot of players were unenthusiastic or just tired from the Fed Ex cup playoffs.

* Learn to work together, especially on foursomes. Simply asking your partner where they would like the ball (left or right side of the fairway, what type of putt do they favor, etc.) would seem to go along way.

* Change the format to combine the Ryder Cup and President's Cup as there are too many of these competitions and they take away from the difference from the normal tour schedule.

 

Congrats to the European players and let's hope the US can rally next time.

 

It is an exhibition match for the uber wealthy to parade around and show off.

Since it is an exhibition match run by the PGA you will always have "influence" helping deternmine captains picks, meter movers if you will i.e. Tiger and Phil.

 

As it was mentioned during the telecast pro golf in europe is measured by your majors and your ryder cups. In the U.S. it is your majors and your wins. Europe puts more emphasis on the ryder cup, it is simply more important to them so they take it more seriously, it is an honor. The U.S. eh.... a nice vacation.

[2ball]

Luckily, I think Tiger, Phil and Bubba will all fail to qualify in 2020. I love Tiger as a vice captain and captain in moving forward, but he needs to forgo a playing role moving forward. He just isn't a good fit for the format aside from singles where he has a winning record.

 

I think having guys that want to be there is going to be crucial. Assuming Charlie Hoffman and Kevin Kisner are close to form they would both be on my team. They loved being a part of the President's Cup team and both spoke extremely highly of the experience. They want to be there.

 

Your nucleus for the next several is going to consist of DJ, Brooks, JT, Speith, Fowler and Reed. Fowler has a losing record, but he's a locker room guy and I think he wants to be there. I'd be fine with having him back despite past failures.

 

My roster assuming everyone is in form and healthy would be as follows:

 

DJ - Nope

Brooks - Nope

JT - Yes

Speith - Nope

Reed - Nope

Fowler - Nope

Hoffman - Yes

Kisner -Sure

Xander - Yes

Snedeker - Yes

Patrick Cantlay - Yes

Kyle Stanley - Yes

 

Captain: Tiger Woods - Nope losing record other than singles what advice can he give about team play?

Vice Captains: Davis Love III, Steve Stricker, Matt Kuchar (Nope) , Freddy Couples and Phil Mickelson

[Colonel_Steelhead]

Try bringing the same team that beat the s*** out of their opponents at the Presidents Cup, pairings and all. One leader not 14 vice captains. Live and die with the general. Leave the instagram models at home so the men can focus on golf not a party.

[G.V. Black]

As an Englishman this was a fantastic tournament to watch. The captain's picks were a huge difference maker but ultimately this comes down to two things.

 

1) Quite simply, the Europeans have a greater will to win. Individually, and as a team, they simply click into another level when it comes to matchplay & representing a banner.

 

2) The PGA tour is setup to only play one kind of golf - ultra long tee shots, ultra wide fairways, barely any penalising rough, then hit a wedge on. It is barely golf as we know it - these guys have little to no need for a long iron - it's just driver, short shot, ad infinitum. Now, there are a few exceptions - Spieth and Woods can handle a links course with the best of them, but as a rule, DJ etc are conditioned to only play boring long PGA courses. There is almost no variety to them whatsoever. They also have no ability to putt on anything that isn't a dead -13 on the stimp. They struggled to adjust to slightly slower greens all week. On the European tour they play exceptionally diverse courses from links through parkland and everything inbetween.

 

The USA needs to learn that whilst the PGA Tour is the daddy, golf is a sport played around the world in all its glorious forms, and until they learn to adapt, adjust and develop, they'll only succeed in Ryder Cups played on their specific courses. Europe have the ability to turn up in the USA and win, because of a willingness to learn and adapt.

 

I should add, I want the USA to succeed - the best Ryder Cups are the closely contended ones.

 

I like the comment, but I have a concern.

 

If American players cannot adjust to European golf why is that since 1921 (when Jock Hutchison the first American to win the Open) Americans have won almost half the championships? 45 out of 91 I think. I know we are talking about a huge time frame and maybe comparing Walter Hagen to Dustin Johnson does not hold water, but it still does not add up....IMO

[NoodleSalad]

The Euro players are the same 'bomb and gouge' types that Americans are. Most of them honed their games at colleges in the states on the same courses that people claim are detrimental to their "style of play". They don't work the ball like players of old and they don't play a different style of golf.

 

The tour stats on driving accuracy suggests otherwise. The Euros do have some long hitters, but more are just "long enough" and keep the ball in play.

 

So Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Rose...not bomb and gouge? Right.

 

Irrespective of what you call it, the PGA would be wise to either grow the rough at a few Tour events. 60 yard wide fairways isn't golf, regardless of whether you have a hard on for distance. If it was, we wouldn't have the trophy. Again.

 

What's funny about comments like this is that for years, European (British mainly) journalists criticized the U.S. Open as unplayable nonsense because of the rough. They sneer at the "gouge out" conditions that meant wild (yet creative) sprayers like Seve were basically non-factors from the start. They snicker at the list of winners -- Andy North, Steve Jones, Lee Janzen, all straight hitters who had none of the artistic elan of a Seve. Now, all of a sudden, the Euros love rough. They love their P.J. Boatwright setup. They love removing any recovery artistry from the game. How and when did this philosophical 180 happen? Because it's pretty remarkable.

[Barfolomew]

I'd love to see Pat Perez playing in Ryder Cup just cause I think he would embrace the atmosphere and bring it!

[Finbarr Saunders]

[Oliver Klozoff]

I don't think you can only take players that want to be there, because everyone wants to be there until they get there.

 

Having the Tour championship the week before this is a guarantee our players will be worn out from 3 straight weeks of high pressure golf. Assuming a weekend can't be worked into the schedule...

 

I think the right move for the U.S. is to care far less. Act like it doesn't matter one bit and that it's a fun reward for 2 years of playing well. In reality it matters to the fans and media more than the U.S. players. Of course they want to win their matches as it's in their nature. But stop having 3 days of practice rounds. Stop the team meetings. Stop grinding over the pairings. Put friends together. Stop the chest bumping. Only have 2 assistants. Do the events that are required. Get there as soon as possible to adjust to the time change and sleep a ton. Everything is so overblown. If I was captain I'd let the players decompress and enjoy themselves.

[SullGolf]

What's funny about comments like this is that for years, European (British mainly) journalists criticized the U.S. Open as unplayable nonsense because of the rough. They sneer at the "gouge out" conditions that meant wild (yet creative) sprayers like Seve were basically non-factors from the start. They snicker at the list of winners -- Andy North, Steve Jones, Lee Janzen, all straight hitters who had none of the artistic elan of a Seve. Now, all of a sudden, the Euros love rough. They love their P.J. Boatwright setup. They love removing any recovery artistry from the game. How and when did this philosophical 180 happen? Because it's pretty remarkable.

 

Right? I'd definitely say the US Open was the closest thing to the type of rough we saw at Le Golf National. For the 11 US Opens from 2008 to 2018, 6 of the 11 winners were on the 2018 US Ryder Cup Team (Tiger, Webb, Spieth, DJ, Koepka x2), and 2 were on the Euro team (Rory, Rose).

 

This seems like an excuse based on the makeup of the two 2018 teams, rather than any actual difference between USA and European golf as a whole.

[Bad9]

I don't think you can only take players that want to be there, because everyone wants to be there until they get there.

 

Having the Tour championship the week before this is a guarantee our players will be worn out from 3 straight weeks of high pressure golf. Assuming a weekend can't be worked into the schedule...

 

I think the right move for the U.S. is to care far less. Act like it doesn't matter one bit and that it's a fun reward for 2 years of playing well. In reality it matters to the fans and media more than the U.S. players. Of course they want to win their matches as it's in their nature. But stop having 3 days of practice rounds. Stop the team meetings. Stop grinding over the pairings. Put friends together. Stop the chest bumping. Only have 2 assistants. Do the events that are required. Get there as soon as possible to adjust to the time change and sleep a ton. Everything is so overblown. If I was captain I'd let the players decompress and enjoy themselves.

 

What about the 6 Euros who played the Fedex Cup playoffs and played the TC?

[rayguy24]

Doesn’t help when there’s a poison pill named Reed on the team.

[tsecor]

you cant have a captain that takes all sorts of input from the players. Spieth exposed that flaw in our lineup and stated the players basically ran the ship....

 

Spieth has become an arrogant dude and is not good for this team......I still cringe at him chest pounding when the team was way behind....it was one of Spieths low moments

[braincramp52]

The next time the Ryder Cup is in Europe it should be mandatory every US team member play at least 72 hole prior to the cup. The Euro captains have it figured out. Slow the greens down to 10 and narrow the fairways. Win for Europe.

[Bad9]

you cant have a captain that takes all sorts of input from the players. Spieth exposed that flaw in our lineup and stated the players basically ran the ship....

 

Spieth has become an arrogant dude and is not good for this team......I still cringe at him chest pounding when the team was way behind....it was one of Spieths low moments

 

Spieth always was that guy

[Naptime]

A home team should have an advantage. No particular reason the US should realistically dominate the RC in all venues. I suppose if the US venues were all on the West Coast that would give them 3 more hours of time zone jet lag from EU.

[stanger37]

I think if you are on foreign soil, which they SHOULD have an advantage on as we should have one when on American soil. You need players that hit a straight ball. Zach Johnson may have an arrant shot every once in a while, maybe 30yards short of the big hitters, but it is straight and always has a chance at a green. Sneds is another, Kuchar. Those 3 guys don't win a lot on PGA tour because the big bombers can get out of the rough with ease. That doesn't happen over there. Webb had the best RC of all our players. RC/PC over here, put out all the bombers, but over there, you have to be a little smarter on who you send over there. US didnt hit the shots that were required to be hit and I don't want to hear about how they never played the course, they're pros. You can walk on the course for the first time to see how terrible the rough is to hit out of. Put it in play to have a chance.

[Lakeeffectgolf]

I think all of this Ryder Cup stuff every 2 years is a joke. Everybody getting into who the new Captain will be and who the pairings will be and so on......What a joke. It means nothing. My dog could pick pairings and win. My dead grandmother could pick pairings and win. It means nothing. Exactly what are you going to do Captaining these guys? My problem with the Ryder Cup is the 2 years leading up to it. Most of that is the Golf channel and all of the useless insight they provide. Geez o peets just throw your clubs in the truck and play golf. Once you get there draw numbers out of a hat on the first tee and pair up. Like there's secret strategy and magic formula.

 

You know why the Europeans are so motivated for the Ryder Cup? Because they know the $$$t show its going to cause over here when they win. They're always the underdog and if they play it smart the US team will probably implode.

 

The next US captain should probably be Dr. Phil McGraw. If they can't get him try Alcohol and have some fun. There you go Maybe John Daly should be the permanent captain.

[Bad9]

A home team should have an advantage. No particular reason the US should realistically dominate the RC in all venues. I suppose if the US venues were all on the West Coast that would give them 3 more hours of time zone jet lag from EU.

 

That was not the general pre RC sentiment on Golfwrx or even the golf analysts. It was all how the US team was so good the Euros didn't have a chance. They were going to get wiped out.

[Naptime]

Interesting interview with Padraig Harrington during the Dunhill at st Andrews. He said it helps the Euros that they are from different countries and it has a different feel when, for example, the English root for the Spaniards. Historically interesting since Europeans spent centuries warring amongst themselves. Whereas the US team is all from the same country so it's not a new experience.

[SCOTT4099]

I think "pick the players that really want to be there" is the key. We need a true team, not an all star team.

 

Makes all the difference.

 

Terminate anybody over 30 with a losing record. For the next RC, that would eliminate:

 

Tiger

Phil

Bubba

Rickie

And a bunch of guys over 30 with bad records that might play well enough to make the team by 2020.

 

Team will be young and hungry overall.

Agree. Unfortunately Bubba a Rickie were auto qualifiers. I wouldn't expect Bubba to in two years but who knows. I'm sure Rickie will be on there. Personally I don't think he should be on the team. He's dreadful at match play

 

I'm saying,

 

No more auto qualifying if you are over 30 and have a losing RC record. Under my system, It's the opposite,

 

Auto-disqualifying

 

The only way to make the team if you are over 30 is if you have a winning record or it's your first time.

 

It's a basic way to screen out people who have done well during the season but have not performed in the RC.

 

 

You get it right. Or, youre terminated ; )

 

 

ages of European Ryder Cup captain's picks

 

Paul Casey 41

Sergio Garcia 38

Ian Poulter 42

Henrik Stenson 42

 

age didn't seem to be a problem for them.

 

Justin Rose is 38

Francesco Molinari is 35. He was 0-4-2 in two previous Ryder Cups.

Alex Noren rookie is 36

 

Don't think age is the problem for U.S. team, it's desire. The U.S. team is a bunch of individuals placed together for 1 week for an event which happens every other year. I honestly do not think Tiger loses a moment of sleep over this loss. He doesn't care that much.

 

 

+1

[eebomb]

He mite lose sleep about how he hacked it around for three days tho.

[GMR]

To those of you who put Rickie into the not-caring camp, I'd remind you that while many of the game's top golfers were coming up with excuses not to show up in Brazil, Rickie was getting the Olympic rings tattooed on his arm.

[chch3]

Hit more fairways and make more putts seems to be the recipe for winning.

[Rangeballz]

The only positive a got out of this RC......Bones is a pretty good on-course announcer. Seems like he is fitting into the gig fairly well.

[MMB1500]

Isn't there some sort of "Task Force" after every US Ryder Cup loss? We must be on at least version 4.0 by now.

 

That said fatigue is undoubtedly a big part of it. Having to play a team event every year must be somewhat draining particularly given how long the PGA Tour season is.

 

One thing that would help is binning the President's Cup which is a complete joke and as pointless and uncompetitive as the Ryder Cup used to be when it was just GB & Ireland.

[ryanarneson]

The next time the Ryder Cup is in Europe it should be mandatory every US team member play at least 72 hole prior to the cup. The Euro captains have it figured out. Slow the greens down to 10 and narrow the fairways. Win for Europe.

 

These aren't high school or college kids. They're not even normal pro athletes with a contract. You can't mandate anything for what is, despite all the hype, an exhibition.

 

What are you going to do if (hypothetically) a World #1 Brooks Koepka says no to wasting a precious week off to go play some unknown course in Italy for the 2022 RC? Kick him off the team? Fine him? Good luck with that.

[braincramp52]

The next time the Ryder Cup is in Europe it should be mandatory every US team member play at least 72 hole prior to the cup. The Euro captains have it figured out. Slow the greens down to 10 and narrow the fairways. Win for Europe.

 

These aren't high school or college kids. They're not even normal pro athletes with a contract. You can't mandate anything for what is, despite all the hype, an exhibition.

 

What are you going to do if (hypothetically) a World #1 Brooks Koepka says no to wasting a precious week off to go play some unknown course in Italy for the 2022 RC? Kick him off the team? Fine him? Good luck with that.

 

Well, if they wouldn't be willing to do that, then they don't want to win all that bad. If they're a world class player they have 2 years to prepare. They have the time. This years Euro team played something like 228 rounds amongst them. U.S. had 12 and 4 was one guy.