Fairway divot rule

[Colin L]

Dicitionaries reflect changing usage and have to introduce new words, modify meanings, add new meanings etc. Clearly, dictionaries have responded to a widespread usage of divot to mean the hole from which the turf has been taken and legitimised it. They are, I believe, entirely neutral and do not express editorial approval or disapproval. They just record the shifting patterns of language.

 

I wonder if this meaning has developed through its high level of use in golf - or misuse depending on how you regard it. Come to think of it, maybe my ancestors did start using it to mean the hole - they may well have been gowfers. Perhaps they were responsible.

[Shilgy]

A divot is without doubt the piece of turf taken out of the ground when you play a shot. The word originates from the old Scottish word meaning a turf used for roofing houses. I'm not totally certain what my ancestors called the hole in the ground where the turf had been dug up but I think it was "hole" :)

https://www.vocabula...ictionary/divot

The chunk of earth is a divot, and the cavity left behind is also called a divot.

 

The hole is mistakenly called a "divot" by two classes of people (and there's some overlap) TV golf announcers and those not familiar with the Rules. :swoon:

So we're "supposed" to just call it "the hole"?

[Vindog]

As far as the semantics are concerned, I think mostly it's simply convenient to just say "divot," and most of the time people know, although I admit it's useful to call things what they actually are.

[SNIPERBBB]

As far as the semantics are concerned, I think mostly it's simply convenient to just say "divot," and most of the time people know, although I admit it's useful to call things what they actually are.

 

You're obviously not a post-modernist.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

Now, someone explain a divot tools use?

[Swisstrader98]

Dicitionaries reflect changing usage and have to introduce new words, modify meanings, add new meanings etc. Clearly, dictionaries have responded to a widespread usage of divot to mean the hole from which the turf has been taken and legitimised it. They are, I believe, entirely neutral and do not express editorial approval or disapproval. They just record the shifting patterns of language.

 

I wonder if this meaning has developed through its high level of use in golf - or misuse depending on how you regard it. Come to think of it, maybe my ancestors did start using it to mean the hole - they may well have been gowfers. Perhaps they were responsible.

 

THE HOLE???

[Vindog]

Now, someone explain a divot tools use?

 

Why, a divot tool is a tool used to make a divot. Therefore a divot tool is nothing more than a golf club!

 

You’re welcome.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

Now, someone explain a divot tools use?

 

Why, a divot tool is a tool used to make a divot. Therefore a divot tool is nothing more than a golf club!

 

You're welcome.

That actually makes sense.

[nsxguy]

Anybody know when "golf" became a verb ? :)

[Newby]

at least as far back as Nov. 29, 1769, the Town Council of St. Andrews, Scotland, agreed “that the part of the Links as presently golfed upon shall be kept entire, and not ploughed up nor enclosed by the Town of St. Andrews or their tenants.”

[Roadking2003]

Id prefer that people didn't feel the need to mark, pick up, clean and/or align their GD ball every time they take a putt.

 

Yeah and hit it out of the divot... As someone else said, it might happen a couple times per year.

 

My ball ends up on a cart path.... maybe a couple times per year. Why not treat that problem just like a ball in a divot?

[Roadking2003]

You need to understand RK's "history" and his circular reasoning.

 

He's wanted to move his ball out of a divot for a long time now; something that happens maybe a couple of times a year to most players (just IMO, IME).

 

So, to that end, he suggests (above) a rule that one should be able to move the ball "through the green".

 

When challenged with "Play it as it lies" he comes up with the exceptions to that principal to further his "new" agenda (move it through the green) which would then satisfy his original "move it out of a divot" suggestion. Net-net he gets what he wanted in the first place. Can you say "Crazy as a fox" ? :D

 

Of course if one agreed with his new(er) "don't touch it anywhere then" "suggestion" he'd be complaining about a whole lot more than just divots. :lol:

 

You are getting close.

 

Actually, my argument is all about consistency and fairness. Personally, I play it as it lies unless we have muddy conditions then we play LCP.

 

Some say you only get in a divot a couple of times per year, so it's not a problem, just suck it up and play. But ending up on a cart path a couple of times per year is a problem so it warrants relief ????? An embedded ball once or twice per year is a problem so it warrants relief ???

 

Some say the principle is "play it as it lies" but have no issue with a multitude of exceptions. So I say make one more exception and move the ball six inches. Moving the ball six inches through the green would have no negative impact on the game other than to offend people who think they are playing by the principle of "play it as it lies".

 

BTW, the reason for "move it six inches" rather than "move it out of a divot" is to avoid the debate over the definition of a divot.

[Roadking2003]

Anybody know when "golf" became a verb ? :)

 

In my book it never has and never will.

[Shilgy]

You need to understand RK's "history" and his circular reasoning.

 

He's wanted to move his ball out of a divot for a long time now; something that happens maybe a couple of times a year to most players (just IMO, IME).

 

So, to that end, he suggests (above) a rule that one should be able to move the ball "through the green".

 

When challenged with "Play it as it lies" he comes up with the exceptions to that principal to further his "new" agenda (move it through the green) which would then satisfy his original "move it out of a divot" suggestion. Net-net he gets what he wanted in the first place. Can you say "Crazy as a fox" ? :D

 

Of course if one agreed with his new(er) "don't touch it anywhere then" "suggestion" he'd be complaining about a whole lot more than just divots. :lol:

 

You are getting close.

 

Actually, my argument is all about consistency and fairness. Personally, I play it as it lies unless we have muddy conditions then we play LCP.

 

Some say you only get in a divot a couple of times per year, so it's not a problem, just suck it up and play. But ending up on a cart path a couple of times per year is a problem so it warrants relief ????? An embedded ball once or twice per year is a problem so it warrants relief ???

 

Some say the principle is "play it as it lies" but have no issue with a multitude of exceptions. So I say make one more exception and move the ball six inches. Moving the ball six inches through the green would have no negative impact on the game other than to offend people who think they are playing by the principle of "play it as it lies".

 

BTW, the reason for "move it six inches" rather than "move it out of a divot" is to avoid the debate over the definition of a divot.

The cart path, like a sprinkler head, like a drain grate, like an electrical box, like anything else built and designed for the infrastructure of the course you get relief from. A divot hole or tree or bush or weed, even if in the middle of the fairway, you play it as it lies. That is the model of consistency.

 

[Newby]

Anybody know when "golf" became a verb ? :)

 

In my book it never has and never will.

Obviously you have never read the minutes of the meetings of the Town Council of St. Andrews

[Shilgy]

Anybody know when "golf" became a verb ? :)

 

In my book it never has and never will.

Obviously you have never read the minutes of the meetings of the Town Council of St. Andrews

RK is a Renaissance man. Change comes slowly. :)

[theelogan]

One of the principles of the game - play the ball as it lies unless a Rule provides otherwise. (Don't hold your breath for a Rule to provide otherwise for divot holes).

 

True, and we already have lots of rules that violate the "play the ball as it lies" principle.

 

How about lift clean and place for every shot? Rub of the green is part of the game.

 

Not always.

 

The Rules don't "violate" the principle, they modify it.

 

Ok, so let's add one more rule; move the ball 6 inches in fairway or green. That just modifies the principle.

[theelogan]

It just seems simple, it doesn't haven't to slow the game down a ton. Just a simple assessment of the lie, an agreement between you and a playing partner ( not dissimilar to repairing a ball mark on the green in your line ) and a quick drop no closer to the hole within a club length. Or as he said , a simple six inch move.

 

You are not taking relief on the green, obviously, so the green remark was silly.

 

But you are picking it up and cleaning it so you are not "playing it as it lies". And you do take relief from casual water on the green. So again, not playing it as it lies.

 

So not silly.

 

The old adage, "Don't like the lie, don't hit it there." Applies.

 

Same could be said for a cart path or sprinkler head or casual water.

[theelogan]

Exactly, there are already several exceptions. Why not one more. If you think that extra 30 seconds is going to slow down a round too much, maybe you shouldn't have came and played a sport that requires time commitment.

[theelogan]

When a ball is in a divot hole in the fairway or a foot print in a bunker, the player is suffering from the carelessness of someone else and would seem to be entitled to relief.

Quite correctly, the Rules do not accord any more consideration to these situations than to the player who finds his ball in an equally difficult position created by nature, course condition or any other cause.

Chance has brought the player’s ball into an unfavorable position and he must do his best to overcome the obstacle.

To many, including myself, your last sentence is the very object of the game. It is a mental examination, not just physical, and how we deal with both the so called good and bad breaks is the essence of the game.

[theelogan]

This is a good point, I was just curious, haven't played competitive golf very long and therefore didn't really think of it that way, but golf is a good metaphor to life. Even when things are seemingly perfect, life throws you a curve ball and how one deals with the obstacle determines their character and success

[Shilgy]

It just seems simple, it doesn't haven't to slow the game down a ton. Just a simple assessment of the lie, an agreement between you and a playing partner ( not dissimilar to repairing a ball mark on the green in your line ) and a quick drop no closer to the hole within a club length. Or as he said , a simple six inch move.

 

You are not taking relief on the green, obviously, so the green remark was silly.

 

But you are picking it up and cleaning it so you are not "playing it as it lies". And you do take relief from casual water on the green. So again, not playing it as it lies.

 

So not silly.

 

The old adage, "Don't like the lie, don't hit it there." Applies.

 

Same could be said for a cart path or sprinkler head or casual water.

so pretty much just agree to roll it in the fairway? That's really all this is... An argument that we should be able to fluff it up anytime we don't like the lie.

 

My opinion would be do so if you like-but it's not golf.

[theelogan]

Anyone wonder why after all the rule changes and things they went through. Why did they skip addressing the silliness of this rule. I get golf is like luck of the draw but it's a difficulty not in the golf course design. Just always wondered why that couldn't be free drop. I hate when you see a tournament determined by one player piping down the middle And losing because they land in a divot.

 

Oh, dear . . . here we go again. Your first post could have complained of slow play or why can't the pros wear shorts . . . but this? Where have you been? :swoon:

[theelogan]

Slow play is the nature of the game, and pros wearing shorts doesn't concern me lol I prefer wearing pants anyway unless it's scorching but as people mentioned I live in Canada so barely an issue .lol

 

 

This really seems familiar. Have we discussed this ever before?

OP 2 1/2 years of lurking and this is your first post? I'm guessing you haven't lurked much in this forum?

 

Haha nah I'm not much of a lurker, just getting more into the community and haven't really navigated the site a whole bunch. Just an interesting topic lol

 

Anyone wonder why after all the rule changes and things they went through. Why did they skip addressing the silliness of this rule. I get golf is like luck of the draw but it's a difficulty not in the golf course design. Just always wondered why that couldn't be free drop. I hate when you see a tournament determined by one player piping down the middle And losing because they land in a divot.

Rather than hammer the OP for his rather redundant first post (I'm moderately new here myself), I will ask him a question. Please define, if you will, what a divot hole is, whether you get relief if its filled with sand or divot mic, and at what time it has grown back enough that it ceases to be grounds for relief. And if you discover that its impossible to write a clear enforceable rule, please let us know that as well.

And welcome to WRX

[theelogan]

Thank you, welcome as well. Quite the outspoken community here which is great.

I'd just argue that it's assessable by playing partner the same way an old.ball mark on a green is and (in the future) animal prints and such on the greens. If it's believed to not be severe enough.playing partners or ruling officials can deny.but it would be a case by case basis, and you can usual tell if it's part of the course design or not. And if it looks like gur then it can be a poasible drop or six inch roll as some have mentioned in the thread.

 

Hit the ball farther, or shorter if you want to avoid divots. Or play LCP in the fairways.

 

Lol I'll work on my distance control

[theelogan]

Anyone wonder why after all the rule changes and things they went through. Why did they skip addressing the silliness of this rule. I get golf is like luck of the draw but it's a difficulty not in the golf course design. Just always wondered why that couldn't be free drop. I hate when you see a tournament determined by one player piping down the middle And losing because they land in a divot.

Can you cite a credible example of when and where that happened? Many players, particularly those in a tournament's lead, have the requisite skill to play a successful shot from that lie. They don't need help from the Rules.

[theelogan]

It's definitely a playable shot, and I don't take relief from them since I started competition. It's just something that when you play on a course withsome potential hackers and club slammers there is some gruesome divots that may not be facing the hole. And it's punishing not by design

[oz dee cee]

Any ball on the fairway being played, is entitled to one free drop from knee height if the player chooses. Then play as it lies from that point. Send to USGA before they print 10,000,000 rule books. ?

[sui generis]

Anyone wonder why after all the rule changes and things they went through. Why did they skip addressing the silliness of this rule. I get golf is like luck of the draw but it's a difficulty not in the golf course design. Just always wondered why that couldn't be free drop. I hate when you see a tournament determined by one player piping down the middle And losing because they land in a divot.

 

Oh, dear . . . here we go again. Your first post could have complained of slow play or why can't the pros wear shorts . . . but this? Where have you been? :swoon:

 

We generally don't argue with teenage boys here . . . :golfer:

[Vindog]

Id prefer that people didn't feel the need to mark, pick up, clean and/or align their GD ball every time they take a putt.

 

Yeah and hit it out of the divot... As someone else said, it might happen a couple times per year.

 

My ball ends up on a cart path.... maybe a couple times per year. Why not treat that problem just like a ball in a divot?

 

Because a cart path is defined differently than a divot hole.

Potential exceptions to the standard procedure should be taken on a case by case basis. As in, a cart path (obstruction) is considered, and then separately a divot hole is considered. Again, separately. One relief procedure (or lack thereof) shouldn't have a bearing on the other, as they are different situations.